[Line Problem] Motorola/Netopia modems have ESP
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NetFixer @ 6th Apr 04:07PM:
[Line Problem] Motorola/Netopia modems have ESP
I think that the Motorola/Netopia 2210 modems have ESP.
For the last 10 days, one of my circuits has had stats like those shown below, with the modem resyncing several times per day. Since I have dual circuits it was more of an annoyance than a real problem.
Downstream Upstream
---------- ----------
SNR Margin: 4.50 13.00 dB
Line Attenuation: 51.50 31.50 dB
Output Power: 17.57 11.84 dBm
Errored Seconds: 0 0
Loss of Signal: 0 0
Loss of Frame: 0 0
CRC Errors: 4292 1
Data Rate: 3328 384
Downstream Upstream
---------- ----------
SNR Margin: 6.90 13.00 dB
Line Attenuation: 51.00 31.50 dB
Output Power: 17.65 11.82 dBm
Errored Seconds: 0 0
Loss of Signal: 0 0
Loss of Frame: 0 0
CRC Errors: 954 2
Data Rate: 3104 384
Downstream Upstream
---------- ----------
SNR Margin: 7.30 13.00 dB
Line Attenuation: 52.50 31.50 dB
Output Power: 17.67 11.85 dBm
Errored Seconds: 0 0
Loss of Signal: 0 0
Loss of Frame: 0 0
CRC Errors: 2587 4
Data Rate: 2912 384
Yesterday though I had the sync drop twice while using the telephone, and of course the CallVantage router just happened to be using the circuit that dropped. My RV082 router did switch the VoIP traffic over to the other circuit, but not before the party on the other end assumed I had hung up because of the several seconds of silence before the circuit switch occurred. That prompted me to decide to call AT&T and open a trouble ticket for the problem this morning. Before doing that I took a look at the stats and now they are back to their normal range for that circuit as shown below, and it has remained stable all day.
Downstream Upstream
---------- ----------
SNR Margin: 12.00 13.00 dB
Line Attenuation: 49.00 31.50 dB
Output Power: 17.02 11.32 dBm
Errored Seconds: 0 0
Loss of Signal: 0 0
Loss of Frame: 0 0
CRC Errors: 4 2
Data Rate: 3552 384
Nobody is going to convince me that the modem does not have ESP.
--
A well-regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.
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NetFixer @ 7th Apr 01:38PM:
Re: [Line Problem] Motorola/Netopia modems have ESP
Oh well, it was a short lived reprieve.
Today I am back to SNR Margins jumping between ~5.00 - 7.00, DS sync rates of 2912 - 3040, and intermittent sync loss.
It also appears that AT&T has re-instated their practice of simply saying "Thank you for calling AT&T" and then disconnecting you if you try to report an intermittent sync problem. Fortunately, if you park your finger on the undocumented "0" key you eventually can get to a CSR without having to lie to the automated call processor.
My money is on the problem being another corroded pedestal or cross box punchdown connection (that has happened twice before with this circuit).
I wouldn't mind however, if the tech decided to move this circuit from the old Alcatel DMT only DSLAM to a newer Broadcom ADSL2 DSLAM during the troubleshooting process tomorrow (as long at it was not also accompanied by the loss of my free static IP address).
--
A well-regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.
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NetFixer @ 8th Apr 06:01PM:
Re: [Line Problem] Motorola/Netopia modems have ESP
The AT&T tech came at 08:00 this morning and did not definitively find any problem other than my logs showing that the circuit had deteriorated. I was somewhat surprised that he actually asked to look at my logs since most AT&T techs I have encountered prefer to start by looking at their test results and seem to be insulted if I should even suggest that the modem logs might be helpful. He did redo the punch down connections in the neighborhood cross box just in case (he said that one of the wires was visually not fully punched down).
Once that was done my stats returned to their normal state for this connection, and the circuit has not dropped sync since then (fingers crossed).
Downstream Upstream
---------- ----------
SNR Margin: 12.00 12.00 dB
Line Attenuation: 50.00 31.50 dB
Output Power: 17.54 11.90 dBm
Errored Seconds: 0 0
Loss of Signal: 0 0
Loss of Frame: 0 0
CRC Errors: 7 2
Data Rate: 3552 384
--
A well-regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.
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NetFixer @ 21st Apr 12:03AM:
Re: [Line Problem] Motorola/Netopia modems have ESP
Well those good stats held for a couple of days and then started to deteriorate. This morning, after several resyncs and still getting DS rates in the 2912 and 3108 range with DS SNR margins hovering around (and dropping below) 6.00, I placed another call for service.
Of course there is still no official way to report an intermittent sync problem. 
This evening the Netopia 2210 ESP kicked in again (I think it heard the CSR trying to blame the modem for the problems) and for the last five hours I have had stats like these:
Downstream Upstream
---------- ----------
SNR Margin: 14.00 13.00 dB
Line Attenuation: 51.50 31.50 dB
Output Power: 17.73 11.92 dBm
Errored Seconds: 0 0
Loss of Signal: 0 0
Loss of Frame: 0 0
CRC Errors: 0 0
Data Rate: 3552 384
Don't you just love aDSL technology?
The last tech to come out said his next step would be to switch to a different wire pair, but if the stats continue to look this good in the morning when the tech arrives, I suspect that nothing other than running a few tests will be done. The problem could be in the wires, but my suspicion is that a component in the DSLAM port is just getting tired and intermittently crapping out.
--
A well-regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.
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NetFixer @ 21st Apr 12:53PM:
Re: [Line Problem] Motorola/Netopia modems have ESP
Well the circuit started to decay again by morning, and was once again at 3108 kbps DS rate with 6.00 or lower DS SNR margins (and a 32 ms interleave) which allowed the new tech to actually see a problem.
The tech did replace the wire pair to the crossbox and replaced a circuit protector, and the circuit once again seems to be back to normal (except it is still in interleave). I guess I will give it at least a week to see if the ancient Alcatel DSLAM will drop the interleave automatically (I'm not holding my breath) and/or be sure the problem is actually fixed before I attack the problem of finding someone to reset the interleave manually. I can live with the interleave temporarily since I just setup rules in the router to bypass that circuit for all VoIP traffic (and with CallVantage going away, I will only have to worry about VoIP QoS for as long as it takes the number(s) to port to AT&T Wireless anyway).
Downstream Upstream
---------- ----------
SNR Margin: 15.00 12.00 dB
Line Attenuation: 50.50 31.50 dB
Output Power: 18.07 11.90 dBm
Errored Seconds: 0 0
Loss of Signal: 0 0
Loss of Frame: 0 0
CRC Errors: 0 0
Data Rate: 3552 384
The interleave on only one circuit does have an interesting effect on traffic as shown by this traceroute:
Note the mostly alternating long/short response times (plays hell with VoIP voice quality).
--
A well-regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.
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wayjac @ 21st Apr 04:52PM:
Re: [Line Problem] Motorola/Netopia modems have ESP
Does the modem report the same 32ms delay, also what does the modem report for interleave depth
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NetFixer @ 21st Apr 08:43PM:
Re: [Line Problem] Motorola/Netopia modems have ESP
said by wayjac :
Does the modem report the same 32ms delay, also what does the modem report for interleave depth
The 32 ms figure is what the modem currently reports for the DS interleave delay. It started out last week as reporting an 8 ms DS interleave delay, and then yesterday it increased to 32 ms. Here is a snapshot of the current stats including the interleave information:
dcs-gwn> show dsl all
ADSL Line State: Up
ADSL Startup Attempts: 1
ADSL Modulation: DMT
ADSL Data Path: Interleave
CO vendor: ALCB
Power Management State L0
Datapump Version: DSP 7.2.3.0, HAL 7.2.1.0
Downstream Upstream
---------- ----------
SNR Margin: 14.00 12.00 dB
Line Attenuation: 50.50 31.50 dB
Output Power: 18.07 11.90 dBm
Errored Seconds: 0 0
Loss of Signal: 0 0
Loss of Frame: 0 0
CRC Errors: 0 0
Data Rate: 3552 384
dcs-gwn> show dsl status
atucRevisionNum 1 ATU-C Vendor ID ALCB
TrainedPath Interleave TrainedMode G.DMT
us Interlv delay 1 ds Interlv delay 32
Estimated loop length: 10900 feet (bridge tap)
Framing Mode: REDUCED OVERHEAD WITH MERGED SYNC
Errored seconds 0 Severely Err Sec 0
usRate 384 dsRate 3552
Here is the DSLR line monitor chart showing the stepped increase in the interleave delay:
[att=1]
The earlier 8ms delay reported by the modem was actually about an 8ms delay, but the current 32ms delay reported by the modem is actually ~17 ms as measured by traceroute and the DSLR line monitor. You have to take some of the modem stats with a grain of salt. These are cheap $25 modems (yeah, I know AT&T charges $75), not $1500+ test instruments. Both of my Netopia 2210 modems report the estimated loop length on my other circuit as 15868 feet even though it goes back to the same CO, and I have asked a local tech who said that both physically should be <= 11,000 feet.
As I said in my previous post, since this has been an intermittent problem, I plan on waiting until at least the end of the week before I really worry about the interleave (if I could not temporarily move all my VoIP traffic to my other circuit, I might be a bit more picky). I want to be sure that the real problem is fixed because otherwise the DSLAM will just turn on interleaving again. On 04/08 after the tech left, my stats looked great for about 36 hours on fast path before the deterioration returned.
My primary purpose in creating this thread was to document an intermittent aDSL line problem getting fixed, because this is the hardest type of problem to correct and it can at times get frustrating for the customer and the techs who have to fix the problem. I know this well because I am sometimes in both of those the positions at once. I have seen AT&T CSRs and local techs sometimes take a verbal beating in on-line forums for being indifferent and/or incompetent. I work professionally with AT&T techs and engineers at all levels, and I knew that my experience has shown that to not be generally true (although any barrel can have a bad apple or two). So far everyone I have talked to on the phone has been polite and helpful, and the techs who came to my home office were quite professional. Make no mistake, had I run into a flock of turkeys, that would been documented as well.
The only complaint I have so far is with the design of the telephone menu when placing a trouble call. If you answer all the asked questions truthfully, you will be politely disconnected if you try to report an intermittent problem, and there is no documented method to request human intervention. I had to find by experiment that there were a couple of branches in the menu tree that would accept the continuous pressing of the "0" key as a request for human intervention, and that does only work in a few select menu branches (everywhere else the "0" key is simply ignored).
--
A well-regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.
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wayjac @ 21st Apr 08:55PM:
Re: [Line Problem] Motorola/Netopia modems have ESP
said by NetFixer :
My primary purpose in creating this thread was to document an intermittent aDSL line problem getting fixed
Ok, I'll leave this thread alone
Thanks for the reply
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NetFixer @ 23rd Apr 04:07PM:
Re: [Line Problem] End of the saga
I just finished up a successful eChat session with Erica who got the DSG to remove the noise profile. Once again, I worked with a polite knowledgeable CSR.
Here are the current stats for the circuit involved:
ADSL Line State: Up
ADSL Startup Attempts: 2
ADSL Modulation: DMT
ADSL Data Path: Fast
CO vendor: ALCB
Power Management State L0
Datapump Version: DSP 7.2.3.0, HAL 7.2.1.0
Downstream Upstream
---------- ----------
SNR Margin: 16.40 13.00 dB
Line Attenuation: 50.50 31.50 dB
Output Power: 17.86 11.88 dBm
Errored Seconds: 0 0
Loss of Signal: 0 0
Loss of Frame: 0 0
CRC Errors: 7 2
Data Rate: 3552 384
[att=1]
[Sermon]
I fell sorry for anyone who tries to get a problem fixed and hits a stone wall because of an indifferent and/or incompetent CSR or technician, but my experience has shown/proven that even for a difficult to fix problem, AT&T does have the human resources available. I suspect that anyone who bitches that "All AT&T (Insert Expletive Here) CSRs/techs are (Insert Expletive Here)" has some serious personal issues on top of the technical problem they are trying to get resolved.
I will violate the "no politics" rule for a moment and say that I hope that AT&T Management does deep down have an appreciation for the people who actually maintain the equipment and placate unhappy customers, and in the end reflects that appreciation at the bargaining table. If they don't then everyone is eventually going to pay the price.
[/Sermon]
--
A well-regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.
»portscan.dcs-net.net
»nature-pics.com
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