will upload speeds ever increase

will upload speeds ever increase
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rhapsody @ 13th Jun 12:39AM:
will upload speeds ever increase

Being stuck at 512 on the upload since for some number of years now, you would think ATT/BS would at least bump the upper DSL tiers to a higher upload rate.

The upload side is so slow and cable is very tempting for the speed increase on the upload side.
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Airwolf7 @ 13th Jun 03:35AM:
Re: will upload speeds ever increase

We will see George W Bush re-elected to a third term as President of the United States of America before AT&T increases the upload speed of FastAccess DSL.
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kcir @ 13th Jun 06:42AM:
Re: will upload speeds ever increase

said by Airwolf7 :

We will see George W Bush re-elected to a third term as President of the United States of America before AT&T increases the upload speed of FastAccess DSL.

:o I'll allow them to cut my up and down load speed in half and double the price before that! :o
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heat84 @ 13th Jun 10:56AM:
Re: will upload speeds ever increase

Unfortunately, 90% of AT&T's subscribers are computer illiterate which means they only use their connection for basic stuff which minimal upload speed is barely adequate for. Until that changes, the geeks have to suffer or switch ISP's.
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bogey780 @ 13th Jun 10:59AM:
Re: will upload speeds ever increase

The physical limit of ADSL is 1Mb/s

The realistic limit is 768Kb/s

Any bump in speeds results in some people having distance issues.
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rhapsody @ 13th Jun 11:20AM:
Re: will upload speeds ever increase

I understand that---
but, Verizon offers a higher upload rate that ATT SE.

I would gladly take 768 over the roughly 344 I get now.
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RJ44 @ 13th Jun 04:48PM:
Re: will upload speeds ever increase

said by rhapsody :

Being stuck at 512 on the upload since for some number of years now...

I would gladly take 768 over the roughly 344 I get now.

Are you on 6 meg? If so and you are only getting 344 up now, you are already having problems. It's normal to get in the 400-420 range with 6 meg.
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Pashune @ 13th Jun 05:35PM:
Re: will upload speeds ever increase

said by bogey780 :

The physical limit of ADSL is 1Mb/s

The realistic limit is 768Kb/s

Any bump in speeds results in some people having distance issues.

But doesn't Qwest seem to do okay with it? I've never used Qwest, but my friend says his upload speeds are always excellent with his 1.5 mbit service. More people would indeed have distance issues, but perhaps they could setup the DSLAMS to auto-provision/have the employees self-provision the upload speed to a workable threshold accounting for line attenuation, noise, etc.

It may or may not be worth the time and work though. Just my two cents. I can't truly complain about DSL since I don't even use it anymore, but it would be nice if the AT&T SE region did tweak their upload speeds a bit. They already sort of do if you're on MaxSync, eliminating data overhead (invisible to the user) and giving you your true speeds if your line is up to snuff.

I guess I'm out of line when I discuss this though. :hmm:
--
ISP: CableOne 3 mbit/300 kbit
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Surfinusa @ 13th Jun 05:51PM:
Re: will upload speeds ever increase

said by Pashune :

I can't truly complain about DSL since I don't even use it anymore, but it would be nice if the AT&T SE region did tweak their upload speeds a bit. They already sort of do if you're on MaxSync, eliminating data overhead (invisible to the user) and giving you your true speeds if your line is up to snuff.

I guess I'm out of line when I discuss this though. :hmm:

I agree with you.

You can complain, users in older ATT (SBC) areas are getting 768 on ADSL2 and selling it for $35 instead of $45 a month.

SBC DSL

NormanS @ 13th Jun 06:21PM:
Re: will upload speeds ever increase

said by Surfinusa :

You can complain, users in older ATT (SBC) areas are getting 768 on ADSL2 and selling it for $35 instead of $45 a month.

Eh? TTBMK, no part of the legacy SBC footprint has ADSL2. It is all just plain ADSL.
--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum
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Mizzat @ 13th Jun 08:05PM:
Re: will upload speeds ever increase

They are working on it, it's called UVerse. Why update your old infrastructure rather than poor the money into your future one?
--
-M
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HKM @ 13th Jun 10:07PM:
Re: will upload speeds ever increase

Yeah good luck with that, we all know that after AT&T took over BellSouth service went to shit. I don't understand why in other region max tier offered by AT&T with higher upload costs lower than in few other areas where max upstream is 512kbps. AT&T can at least bring the price down, but we all know AT&T likes to take more and give less.

I wonder how many years it will take AT&T to deploy U-Verse fully as real Teleco's like Verizon gets stronger foothold slowly in fiber market on their transit along with there competitor Cableco ComCRAP. Maybe by then when everyone is getting 100mbps just maybe AT&T will offer 2mbps upstream. Oooh wait asking 2mbps is alot hell I would take 768kbps upstream for now until slow upgrade within few months.

PS: Does anyone know how AT&T is trying to keep thier current customer who already called to cancel their slow piece of shit sad attempt at connection? Take a guess.
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rhapsody @ 13th Jun 10:21PM:
Re: will upload speeds ever increase

Do they attempt to further discount the DSL service to keep customers?
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rhapsody @ 13th Jun 10:23PM:
Re: will upload speeds ever increase

said by RJ44 :

said by rhapsody :

Being stuck at 512 on the upload since for some number of years now...

I would gladly take 768 over the roughly 344 I get now.

Are you on 6 meg? If so and you are only getting 344 up now, you are already having problems. It's normal to get in the 400-420 range with 6 meg.

I have never gotten over 350Kbps with upload.
On the download side I have hit 6.20Mbps
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Airwolf7 @ 13th Jun 11:00PM:
Re: will upload speeds ever increase

said by rhapsody :

said by RJ44 :

said by rhapsody :

Being stuck at 512 on the upload since for some number of years now...

I would gladly take 768 over the roughly 344 I get now.

Are you on 6 meg? If so and you are only getting 344 up now, you are already having problems. It's normal to get in the 400-420 range with 6 meg.

I have never gotten over 350Kbps with upload.
On the download side I have hit 6.20Mbps

If you can only get 350kbps of upstream throughput with FastAccess DSL Xtreme 6.0 then something is wrong.

[att=1]

Please post your modem's DSL statistics. Mainly need to see the upstream DSL synch rate.
»AT&T Southeast Forum FAQ »How do I check modem stats & event logs? What do the numbers mean?

Run the SpeedGuide.net TCP/IP Analyzer then post the results.
»www.speedguide.net/analyzer.php?

[att=2]

Please run the Atlanta, GA speed test at »speakeasy.net/speedtest/ then post the results.

HKM @ 13th Jun 11:13PM:
Re: will upload speeds ever increase

said by rhapsody :

Do they attempt to further discount the DSL service to keep customers?

Yeah, which is why I am still with AT&T lol for now. I am only paying $42.95 ($22.95)/month (6 months 2 discount x $10 credit) for Xtreme 6.0 (6mbps[6.2mbps]/512kbps[432kbps]) tier.

You know as the saying goes "you get what you paid for" I believe that as I am paying $22.95 for what the piece of shit slow upstream provided by BellSouth now AT&T aka Death Star. The day they refuse to give me further discount on my account is the day I say cancel my total AT&T package with every service and I move on to their competitor ComCRAP.

I hope everyone does this as the folks in higher ops sees what is happening as they lose money and try to fix it. So if they refuse to fix it then users will keep getting the discount, now if they refuse that then user will just cancel. By then they would lose more money. So if AT&T can't play with the big boys Verizon and Comcast then they should just stick to providing dialup, hence AOL? LOL
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rhapsody @ 14th Jun 12:08PM:
Re: will upload speeds ever increase

Here are my line stats.
I will post the speed test shortly.

DSL Connection Details
DSL Line (Wire Pair): Line 1 (inner pair)
Protocol: G.DMT2+ Annex A
Downstream Rate: 8127 kbps
Upstream Rate: 507 kbps
Channel: Fast
Current Noise Margin: 24.4 dB (Downstream) 21.5 dB (Upstream)
Current Attenuation: 32.4 dB (Downstream) 7.0 dB (Upstream)
Current Output Power: 18.1 dBm (Downstream) -1.3 dBm (Upstream)
DSLAM Vendor Information: Country: {0xB5} Vendor: {BDCM} Specific: {0x9162}
PVC Info: 8/35
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rhapsody @ 14th Jun 12:09PM:
Re: will upload speeds ever increase

« SpeedGuide.net TCP Analyzer Results »
Tested on: 06.14.2009 12:08
IP address: 74.171.xxx.xxx
Client OS: Mac OS

TCP options string: 02040582010303030101080a3f982a8d0000000004020000
MSS: 1410
MTU: 1450
TCP Window: 524280 (NOT multiple of MSS)
RWIN Scaling: 3 bits (2^3=8)
Unscaled RWIN : 65535
Recommended RWINs: 64860, 129720, 259440, 518880, 1037760
BDP limit (200ms): 20971kbps (2621KBytes/s)
BDP limit (500ms): 8388kbps (1049KBytes/s)
MTU Discovery: ON
TTL: 44
Timestamps: ON
SACKs: ON
IP ToS: 00000000 (0)
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rhapsody @ 14th Jun 12:11PM:
Re: will upload speeds ever increase

That speed test showed my upload speed much higher.
I suppose it being a different server helped.

here are the results.

Last Result:
Download Speed: 6182 kbps (772.8 KB/sec transfer rate)
Upload Speed: 405 kbps (50.6 KB/sec transfer rate)
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kremithefrog @ 14th Jun 03:36PM:
Re: will upload speeds ever increase

Use speedtest.net to atlanta (if you didn't for that last one)

I get 6k+ dl and 440+ upload.
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rhapsody @ 14th Jun 03:39PM:
Re: will upload speeds ever increase

those numbers were the test to Atlanta.
I will re run it again...
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rhapsody @ 14th Jun 03:51PM:
Re: will upload speeds ever increase

rhapsody @ 14th Jun 03:53PM:
Re: will upload speeds ever increase

said by kremithefrog :

Use speedtest.net to atlanta (if you didn't for that last one)

I get 6k+ dl and 440+ upload.

Maybe because you're located physically closer to ATL could be a reason why your speeds are better than mine?
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Airwolf7 @ 14th Jun 06:35PM:
Re: will upload speeds ever increase

said by rhapsody :

Here are my line stats.
I will post the speed test shortly.

DSL Connection Details
DSL Line (Wire Pair): Line 1 (inner pair)
Protocol: G.DMT2+ Annex A
Downstream Rate: 8127 kbps
Upstream Rate: 507 kbps
Channel: Fast
Current Noise Margin: 24.4 dB (Downstream) 21.5 dB (Upstream)
Current Attenuation: 32.4 dB (Downstream) 7.0 dB (Upstream)
Current Output Power: 18.1 dBm (Downstream) -1.3 dBm (Upstream)
DSLAM Vendor Information: Country: {0xB5} Vendor: {BDCM} Specific: {0x9162}
PVC Info: 8/35

The 2Wire's DSL statistics are great. Nothing wrong here. There is nothing keeping you from being able to get 6500kbps of downstream throughput or 430kbps of upstream throughput when tested at a reliable speed test site.

Please verify that your 2Wire is running PPPoE and that the MTU is set to 1492. I don't remember where the 2Wire shows this information but it does show it in there somewhere. Just dig around through the 2Wire's GUI and you will run across this information.
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Airwolf7 @ 14th Jun 07:32PM:
Re: will upload speeds ever increase

said by rhapsody :

That speed test showed my upload speed much higher.
I suppose it being a different server helped.

here are the results.

Last Result:
Download Speed: 6182 kbps (772.8 KB/sec transfer rate)
Upload Speed: 405 kbps (50.6 KB/sec transfer rate)

Your speed test results improved because you ran a speed test to reliable speed testing sites using the reliable Atlanta, GA speed test server location.

Your throughput speeds are well within the acceptable ranges for FastAccess DSL Xtreme 6.0 service. They could be better though!

Your modem has a synch rate of 8127kbps downstream and 507kbps upstream. With a modem running PPPoE with its MTU set to 1492 and using a computer with properly adjusted TCP/IP parameters your throughput speeds should be 85% of your synch rate speeds if God loves you, you are holding your mouth just right, and the stars are in the right alignment.

8127kbps x .85 = 6908kbps*

507kbps x .85 = 431kbps

* FastAccess DSL Xtreme 6.0 service is speed shaped to 6500kbps of throughput speed by AT&T.
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rhapsody @ 14th Jun 07:38PM:
Re: will upload speeds ever increase

Thank you for analyzing that. I really appreciate it!
I am going to check the 2wire gateway MTU and see if i can adjust it like you mentioned.

Should I try messing with my computer's TCP/IP stack?
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rhapsody @ 14th Jun 07:46PM:
Re: will upload speeds ever increase

Here is the router config page.
My MTU was already set at 1492. Should I set it higher?

Airwolf7 @ 14th Jun 07:55PM:
Re: will upload speeds ever increase

said by rhapsody :

« SpeedGuide.net TCP Analyzer Results »
Tested on: 06.14.2009 12:08
IP address: 74.171.xxx.xxx
Client OS: Mac OS

TCP options string: 02040582010303030101080a3f982a8d0000000004020000
MSS: 1410 (This should be 1452)
MTU: 1450 (This should be 1492)
TCP Window: 524280 (NOT multiple of MSS) (This should be 63888 and a multiple of the MSS)
RWIN Scaling: 3 bits (2^3=8) (This should be 0 bits which means its turned off)
Unscaled RWIN : 65535 (This should be 63888)
Recommended RWINs: 64860, 129720, 259440, 518880, 1037760
BDP limit (200ms): 20971kbps (2621KBytes/s)
BDP limit (500ms): 8388kbps (1049KBytes/s)
MTU Discovery: ON
TTL: 44
Timestamps: ON (This should be turned off)
SACKs: ON
IP ToS: 00000000 (0)

This is what has you all messed up.

I don't know anything about tweaking the TCP/IP parameters of the Mac Operating System.

Run the Tweak Tester »/tweaks here at DSLReports to get a second look at these parameters then post the results.
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Airwolf7 @ 14th Jun 08:01PM:
Re: will upload speeds ever increase

said by rhapsody :

Thank you for analyzing that. I really appreciate it!
I am going to check the 2wire gateway MTU and see if i can adjust it like you mentioned.

Should I try messing with my computer's TCP/IP stack?

I just wanted you to verify the settings on the 2Wire. No need to adjust anything.

You should try messing with your computer's TCP/IP stack.

said by rhapsody :

Here is the router config page.
My MTU was already set at 1492. Should I set it higher?

Do not set the MTU higher than 1492.
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rhapsody @ 14th Jun 08:06PM:
Re: will upload speeds ever increase

Interesting, it says I am not pingable.
Would this affect my speeds?

Here is the URL that shows my results.

»/tweakr/block:···terpppoe
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Airwolf7 @ 14th Jun 08:10PM:
Re: will upload speeds ever increase

said by rhapsody :

Interesting, it says I am not pingable.
Would this affect my speeds?

No.
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rhapsody @ 14th Jun 08:18PM:
Re: will upload speeds ever increase

I changed the MTU on the computer I was on (as opposed to the router)... and got this-- however upload hasn't changed much.

Airwolf7 @ 14th Jun 08:21PM:
Re: will upload speeds ever increase

What does show now with the analyzer and the tweak test?

»www.speedguide.net/analyzer.php?

»/tweaks
--
It is not possible to achieve 'equality' between things that are, fundamentally, not equal!
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rhapsody @ 14th Jun 08:24PM:
Re: will upload speeds ever increase

Speedguide analyzer:

« SpeedGuide.net TCP Analyzer Results »
Tested on: 06.14.2009 20:23
IP address: 74.171.xxx.xxx
Client OS: Mac OS

TCP options string: 020405ac010303030101080a3547895b0000000004020000
MSS: 1452
MTU: 1492
TCP Window: 524280 (NOT multiple of MSS)
RWIN Scaling: 3 bits (2^3=8)
Unscaled RWIN : 65535
Recommended RWINs: 63888, 127776, 255552, 511104, 1022208
BDP limit (200ms): 20971kbps (2621KBytes/s)
BDP limit (500ms): 8388kbps (1049KBytes/s)
MTU Discovery: ON
TTL: 44
Timestamps: ON
SACKs: ON
IP ToS: 00000000 (0)
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rhapsody @ 14th Jun 08:26PM:
Re: will upload speeds ever increase

»/tweakr/block:···terpppoe

It shows a rather large range for the RWIN---
What would you suggest I set or should i Just pick the median go from there?
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Airwolf7 @ 14th Jun 08:27PM:
Re: will upload speeds ever increase

.
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rhapsody @ 14th Jun 08:36PM:
Re: will upload speeds ever increase

would you suggest changing anything in the network settings here? (This is under OS X).

Airwolf7 @ 14th Jun 08:37PM:
Re: will upload speeds ever increase

You are getting close to where you need to be.

Turn off RWIN Scaling and Timestamps.

Set the TCP Window to 63888 if you believe the old wives tales that says the TCP Window needs to be an even multiple of MSS.

Set the TCP Window to 65340 if you don't believe in such nonsense.

63888 or 65340 TCP Window | odd or even MSS multiple

It doesn't really make much difference either way.
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rhapsody @ 14th Jun 08:39PM:
Re: will upload speeds ever increase

Just by changing the RWIN i got this:

Airwolf7 @ 14th Jun 08:48PM:
Re: will upload speeds ever increase

Please understand that I don't know Macs.

I would try turning off the RFC-1323 extensions. I think that should get rid RWIN Scaling and Timestamps.

Run the Speed Guide TCP/IP Analyzer and the DSL Reports Tweak Tester after you change that setting.
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Airwolf7 @ 14th Jun 08:54PM:
Re: will upload speeds ever increase

Click on settings at Speedtest.net and change the Speed Measurement from megabits to kilobits.
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rhapsody @ 14th Jun 08:57PM:
Re: will upload speeds ever increase

I changed the units.

Airwolf7 @ 14th Jun 08:59PM:
Re: will upload speeds ever increase

You need to save the settings after you change them. You are still showing megabits instead of kilobits.

EDIT:

Something is wrong at Speedtest.net. They show the megabits per second picture even if you change it to kilobits per second.
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rhapsody @ 14th Jun 09:02PM:
Re: will upload speeds ever increase

Just changed RWIN to 511104

Airwolf7 @ 14th Jun 09:31PM:
Re: will upload speeds ever increase

The TCP Receive Window should not exceed 65535.

Window Scaling or Timestamps is not needed with FastAccess DSL.

»AT&T Southeast Forum FAQ »What happens if my RWIN (Receive Window) is too small or too big?

It should be a multiple of the MSS not to exceed 65535.

MSS = 1452

1452 x 44 = 63888 if you believe in the even multiple of MSS theory.

1452 x 45 65340 if you don't believe in the even multiple of MSS theory.
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rhapsody @ 14th Jun 09:36PM:
Re: will upload speeds ever increase

RWIN window 65535

graysonf @ 14th Jun 09:41PM:
Re: will upload speeds ever increase

Your RWIN has no effect on your upload speed.
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rhapsody @ 14th Jun 09:46PM:
Re: will upload speeds ever increase

said by graysonf :

Your RWIN has no effect on your upload speed.

What would you recommend for the Send Window Size
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Airwolf7 @ 14th Jun 09:47PM:
Re: will upload speeds ever increase

You are right about that.

It would be nice though if he would turn off Windows Scaling and Timestamps then set the Receive Window size to a multiple of MSS.
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rhapsody @ 14th Jun 09:48PM:
Re: will upload speeds ever increase

Here's my latest tweak results.
My efficiency did go from 90% to 96%

»/tweakr/block:···terpppoe
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rhapsody @ 14th Jun 09:50PM:
Re: will upload speeds ever increase

My window scaling is off (and time-stamps)
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Airwolf7 @ 14th Jun 09:52PM:
Re: will upload speeds ever increase

Change the Receive Window Size to 65340.
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rhapsody @ 14th Jun 09:56PM:
Re: will upload speeds ever increase

Receive window size is set at 63888 and here is my latest speed test.

Airwolf7 @ 14th Jun 09:56PM:
Re: will upload speeds ever increase

said by rhapsody :

My window scaling is off (and time-stamps)

I see that now after looking at the new Tweak Tester results.
--
It is not possible to achieve 'equality' between things that are, fundamentally, not equal!
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rhapsody @ 14th Jun 09:58PM:
Re: will upload speeds ever increase

and now with the RWIN set to 65340

rhapsody @ 14th Jun 09:59PM:
Re: will upload speeds ever increase

said by Airwolf7 :

said by rhapsody :

My window scaling is off (and time-stamps)

I see that now after looking at the new Tweak Tester results.

Thank you again for giving me all these suggestions.
Its very kind of you.
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Airwolf7 @ 14th Jun 10:02PM:
Re: will upload speeds ever increase

»www.speedguide.net/analyzer.php?

»/tweaks

»speakeasy.net/speedtest/

»speedtest.net/

Run all of these above to check things out then post the results.

I think we have it licked now.

EDIT:

There is one more thing you need to do. You need to update your avatar to reflect your new speeds at Speedtest.net
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Airwolf7 @ 14th Jun 10:15PM:
Re: will upload speeds ever increase

said by rhapsody :

Thank you again for giving me all these suggestions.
Its very kind of you.

Your welcome.
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rhapsody @ 14th Jun 10:26PM:
Re: will upload speeds ever increase

SpeedGuide.net TCP Analyzer Results
Tested on: 06.14.2009 22:03
IP address: 74.171.xxx.xxx
Client OS: Mac OS
TCP options string: 020405ac04020000
MSS: 1452
MTU: 1492
TCP Window: 65535 (NOT multiple of MSS)
RWIN Scaling: 0 bits
Unscaled RWIN : 65535
Recommended RWINs: 63888, 127776, 255552, 511104, 1022208
BDP limit (200ms): 2621kbps (328KBytes/s)
BDP limit (500ms): 1049kbps (131KBytes/s)
MTU Discovery: ON
TTL: 44
Timestamps: OFF
SACKs: ON
IP ToS: 00000000 (0)

DSL Reports Tweaks

»/tweakr/block:···terpppoe

speakeasy.net/speedtest/
Download Speed: 6499 kbps (812.4 KB/sec transfer rate)
Upload Speed: 426 kbps (53.3 KB/sec transfer rate)

speedtest.net/

Airwolf7 @ 14th Jun 10:43PM:
Re: will upload speeds ever increase

Looks good except for some reason your TCP Receive Window keeps getting set to 65535.
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rhapsody @ 14th Jun 10:49PM:
Re: will upload speeds ever increase

would you suggest changing the TCP Send window size?
Currently its set at 63888
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Airwolf7 @ 14th Jun 11:25PM:
Re: will upload speeds ever increase

Don't know anything about no TCP Send Window.

You are getting 6500kbps down and 430kbps up. That's all you can get.

If it ain't broke then don't fix it until it is broke.

I'm translating tweaking Windows computers for FastAccess DSL into tweaking a Mac computer for FastAccess DSL.

On the Windows side of things we don't fool with no TCP Send Window.

.

Did your Mac come with those messed up settings straight out of the box or did you use some kind of tweaking program to get them all messed up?

Don't Macs have a self tuning TCP/IP stack?

99.9% of the time tweaking a modern Windows computer for FastAccess DSL is a waste of time. They usually only need tweaking if someone has tweaked them before and got the settings all messed up or used some kind of Internet speed up program.

Most of the tweaking information and tweaking programs available on the Internet is full of shit. Mainly they just mess settings up and change settings that don't need to be changed.
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rhapsody @ 15th Jun 12:05AM:
Re: will upload speeds ever increase

I think the settings were screwed up once before---
now they seem to be back to a better state.
Thank you for helping me.

Macs out of the box do automatically tune the IP stack.
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Airwolf7 @ 15th Jun 12:31AM:
Re: will upload speeds ever increase

Glad I could be of some help.

I guess you got it keep your Receive Window setting instead of it switching back to 65535.
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