Section 5.9 of Recent ToS Changes
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bksmith5 @ 10th Sep 12:35AM:
Section 5.9 of Recent ToS Changes
"5.9 Changes to Service Plans
Your service plan includes terms and conditions such as monthly service allowances, limitations and features, and the associated charges, all as described in the materials made available to you in connection with your order. You acknowledge that your service plan is also subject to these Terms of Service. Our service is subject to our business policies, practices and procedures, which we can change at any time without notice. Unless otherwise prohibited by applicable law, we can also change the terms and conditions of your service plan (such as features and prices) at any time, with or without notice. If we do give you notice, it may be provided on your account web page or monthly bill, in a newsletter, in a mailing, by e-mail, by telephone or other communication permitted under applicable law."
I'm not sure if I like the looks of the text in bold. Thoughts, anyone?
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bksmith5 @ 10th Sep 02:40PM:
Re: Section 5.9 of Recent ToS Changes
I am honestly surprised that no one has had anything to say about this.
I do rather enjoy my Vonage telephone service, but the "carte blanche" nature of the above section is kind of scary. It doesn't make sense to me that a company should have the right to modify the terms and conditions, particularly with regard to features and prices, without notice.
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Phatty @ 10th Sep 07:32PM:
Re: Section 5.9 of Recent ToS Changes
You mean there are companies with a TOS that doesn't have something along these same lines written in it?
I would think terms like that are the standard, not the exception to the rule...
Yeah it sucks, yeah I don't like it... But I think almost every TOS has a loop hole like this thats in favor of the company writing the TOS.
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garys_2k @ 10th Sep 07:40PM:
Re: Section 5.9 of Recent ToS Changes
Did this recently change? If not, then not likely a big deal. If so, then I'd say something's up.
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dyrewolfe @ 10th Sep 08:08PM:
Re: Section 5.9 of Recent ToS Changes
Changed on 9/2.
»https://www.vonage.com/tos_updates/
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bksmith5 @ 10th Sep 10:15PM:
Re: Section 5.9 of Recent ToS Changes
If every company had such a loose-and-open set of "terms of service" then they would lose a LOT of customers. It's pretty stupid to blindly let a company dictate your terms and conditions with the option to do it without notification to you.
Yes, it is fairly common that companies have loose TOS'. This is 100% wide-open without any constraints or penalties. I really do not believe that this will last because this is kind of thing that gets companies into litigious situations.
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dyrewolfe @ 11th Sep 09:40AM:
Re: Section 5.9 of Recent ToS Changes
fyi. you can look at the link below for all the changes made to the TOS. Looks like quite a bit of changes with regards to disconnection and disconnection fees. I wonder if this has anything to do with the recent world plan they introduced? I don't think I'd like to be roped into a 1 or 2 yr contract with those terms.
»www.changedetection.com/log/vona···log.html
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bksmith5 @ 11th Sep 10:49AM:
Re: Section 5.9 of Recent ToS Changes
This is my concern as well, considering I talked my Grandfather into taking Vonage service just prior to this ToS change set.
I'm certainly not freaking out over any of this, but it is definitely not making me feel very comfortable!
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jaak @ 14th Sep 01:16AM:
Re: Section 5.9 of Recent ToS Changes
I wouldn't worry about it too much. The also state you can cancel without penalty any time the TOS is changed.
»www.vonage.com/tos/#CHANGES
quote:
If you do not agree to the changes, you must terminate your service immediately. Disconnection fees and recovery fees will not be applicable to termination of service due to increases in service plan prices or other material changes if your account is in good standing and you call us to terminate within 30 days after posted notice of the change.
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dyrewolfe @ 14th Sep 06:36AM:
Re: Section 5.9 of Recent ToS Changes
That only applies to increases in service plan prices though such as the recent one from $14.99-$17.99. Vonage rarely makes though kind of increases. What does not allow you to cancel without penalty is an increase in surcharges and taxes.
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mahermusic @ 14th Sep 03:46PM:
Re: Section 5.9 of Recent ToS Changes
No big deal.
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Yikes2000 @ 29th Sep 01:25AM:
Re: Section 5.9 of Recent ToS Changes
Prior to this change, the wording of Section 15 is ambiguous.
July 9 Version:
Section 15... If you do not agree to the changes, you must terminate your service immediately. Termination charges will not be applicable to termination of service due to increases in price or other material changes...
September 2 (Current) Version:
... Disconnection fees and recovery fees will not be applicable to termination of service due to increases in service plan prices or other material changes ... Increases in usage rates, taxes, surcharges such as the Federal Program Fee or discretionary billable add-ons or features will not be subject to waivers of disconnection fees and recovery fees.
When I tried to cancel in June due to the E911 fee increase (from $0.99 to $1.50), I received a waiver to the $39.99 disconnection fee. But they persuaded me to stay with an offer of $14.99/mo for six months. IMHO, the latest change to Section 15 constitute a "material change" because the disconnection fee won't be waived for increase in any surcharges or fees other than the "service plan prices" ($17.99 or $24.99). For example, Vonage could unbundle voice mail and charge $2.50/mo for it as a feature. No waiver for disconnection fee.
But it's already too late for those under contract to act on the 9/2/2009 TOS change. Vonage takes the full 14 BUSINESS DAYS to complete phone number port-aways. So unless someone submit a port-away by 9/11/2009 (mere 6 business days after 9/2/2009), the customer must pay $39.99 disconnection fee (and possibly rebate fees too) to cancel their contract.
Reading the fine-print is pointless if it keeps changing!
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