Lol fair enough.
of showing such graphics to Bell's worker. If it's true there's no shield
from that fact alone, i'd find it pointless to get involved any further!...
to be necessary (i used a neperian logarithmic function, as i recall). So,
is orange - but with no valid scale for that one, though... It happens to
scaling feature which i'm unable to defeat so far. With such an Error Rate
while the FEC Error Rate ranges a couple orders of magnitude higher...
Finally...
dangerous!... I bet you'll be back with downgrades pretty soon if nothing
oh I know completely what you mean... remember that "an rdslam won't help because there is a bridge tap" story? at that point, I essentially said thank you and just went back inside. within 5 minutes, I opened up another trouble ticket. By doing that, I was basically calling the technician a liar.
Do they have surefire ways of detecting Bridge Taps themselves? If I ever find an honest and knowledgeable (I'm optimistic, I know) Bell tech, I'd better get his number and make sure I have a list of questions ready.
I"m pretty sure it doesn't actually tell them for sure that there is bridge tap. I think that the testing equipment just gives them electronic measurement numbers and the technician probably still has to be able to interpret the data.
The only real way of 100% finding a bridge tap would be to follow all of the wiring which just won't be done.
In my years of "interfacing" with telephone companies for broadcasting services, I've never heard of or seen any shielded wire in any telephone installation on the telephone companies side.
Telephone wiring is "balanced line 600 ohm," at least that's the specified standard.
Most of it is twisted or parallel pair or quad for inside wiring.
someone's in a silly mood tonight!!! I still can't get over my situation. It's so much funnier when the results are better inside and worse outside yet they blame everything on the inside wiring or defective modems. (you dummies, my inside is making the connection better!!!!!)
but sometimes you get a gut feeling about your line and in my case, I knew both myself and bicephale could smell a bridge tap in action
I'd love to know what is causing my trouble.
The thing is, there's a remote about 200meters from my house, just around the corner, but I doubt I'm connected to it. Either that or my line goes around the entire neighbourhood and then connects to it.
I have to ask the next tech who comes if I'm connected to that one. Is there any way to get them to reroute the wires to take a different path? Is this like asking Godzilla to tiptoe?
I think it's fair to say that unusual behavior could be a good indication of a bridge tap:
-better results inside, especially when hooking up uncessary extension cords and sometimes even extra, unneded phones
-crazy fluctuations between different brands of modems (>500Kbps in maximum sync rates)
-a line that works best with one type of modem one day, but a different modem on another day
that's just from my experience but those scenarios might not always be the case when there is a bridge tap
a reflectometer, chasing around after "Bridge Taps" to be removed?...
I've had a technician show up before for a DSL trouble ticket and all he had was a handset to see if there was a dial tone and a keypad to make calls. so what does that tell you?
Hmm. That doesn't really sound like my line. My line just has tons of errors which increase at around 9pm most nights with a corresponding drop in SNRM. The SNRM and RCO% are also all over the place... don't really know what that tells you.
Euh...
That he was a sub-contractor who couldn't afford having a cell phone?!...
told about "Bridge Taps" many times before, unless i'd be mistaking...
Yes, you've mentioned them to me a number of times. I've never seen the symptoms listed like that before though, so now that I see them all together, it doesn't feel right.
I would guess that the line runs too close to some power conductors or something more along those lines. Actually that doesn't really explain why it's really noisy even late into the night. That's doesn't correlate with maximum power usage hours.
Hmm... what explains noise at night? Or more specifically, fairly constant low level of noise which increases dramatically at night?
...or is it coming from nowhere (underground)?...
The guy who showed up for an initital technician vist for a DSL ticket without any DSL equipment was obviously just for show. Too bad that they forgot to give him stuff to at least pretend he was taking readings!
said by Oinktastic
Hmm... what explains noise at night? Or more specifically, fairly constant low level of noise which increases dramatically at night?
[/BQUOTE :broadcast signals from radio stations (increased power output)... i'm just guessing...
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Oinktastic @ 9th Oct 02:13AM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!said by Bicephale :Oh, one last question! Where does Bell's drop-wire attach to your home?
...or is it coming from nowhere (underground)?...
It comes from a poll at the corner of my backyard and then to a standoff by the gutter on my roof. From there, it goes under the eves for a few meters and then down the brick wall.
It doesn't pass by the power lines. They're at the other end of the house.
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Oinktastic @ 9th Oct 02:13AM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users! broadcast signals from radio stations... i'm just guessing...
Those increase at night?
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dslrocker3 @ 9th Oct 02:15AM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!yes. I know this because I remember a morning radio show where a Toronto station was receiving interference from another radio station in the U.S. on the same frequency and they had to make a phone call to the U.S. radio station to ask them to take the transmitter out of night mode.
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Oinktastic @ 9th Oct 02:16AM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!said by dslrocker3 :
yes. I know this because I remember a morning radio show where a Toronto station was receiving interference from another radio station in the U.S. on the same frequency and they had to make a phone call to the U.S. radio station to ask them to take the transmitter out of night mode.
Very interesting. The only thing I could do then is shorten my line to the remote... right?
Edit: Okay, I know Bicephale has told me this at least twice before, so I don't know why I didn't actually take a closer look at that. I feel like such a dummy now.
I can see dips in the spectrum which correspond exactly to local AM radio stations. How did I not notice this before??? *facepalm*
Bicephale >>> Oinktastic :D
Check out frequencies 590 680 and 740. |
Bicephale @ 9th Oct 02:21AM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!I've got the nightly noise bursts too and they remain a mistery so far:
»
24 h Sine Wave emerging from Averaged CRC Error Rate Curve!»
Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!
My next long-term curve, which remains to be published, might provide
some clues. I'm not done yet but i'm under the impression that my ST's
FirmWare version has more influence on signal quality than i was ready
to suspect... If that's the case then v6.2 is a big "no-no"!
Lets notice i'm pretty sure i do have a "Bridge Tap", according to my
Siemens SpeedStream 4200...
Anyway, good night!
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Bicephale @ 9th Oct 02:30AM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!OKay, one very last comment from my part guys!...
UNPLUG THAT MODEM DURING THE NOISY PERIODS!
Or you may wake up with a bad surprize tomorrow!
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Oinktastic @ 9th Oct 02:32AM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!said by Bicephale :OKay, one very last comment from my part guys!...
UNPLUG THAT MODEM DURING THE NOISY PERIODS!
Or you may wake up with a bad surprize tomorrow!
Bad surprise? What could that be? It's been through many weeks like this already :( Don't answer! Go to bed! :P
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dslrocker3 @ 9th Oct 02:36AM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!he means Bell "fixing" your line my making it more stable.
read between the lines on my above comment. this really means that they will set you you to 3008/512 or something like that.
when you have a ticket open, I believe they have a computer monitor your line and if the computer is looking at your line during that noisy period (running a possible script), your profile might get lowered. it could also get lowered if a Bell technician manually checks your line status during those noisy periods.
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Oinktastic @ 9th Oct 02:38AM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!said by dslrocker3 :
he means Bell "fixing" your line my making it more stable.
read between the lines on my above comment. this really means that they will set you you to 3008/512 or something like that.
OHhhhhhhhh, THEM! I don't know. I'm not sure they actually care about me, really. It's been disconnecting a lot lately and they haven't been lowering the profile on me.
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Bicephale @ 9th Oct 04:43AM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!No can do: Ex-Bell told you, i feed at night!!!
Then i rest for a little while between meals...
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olebiker @ 9th Oct 02:32PM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!said by Bicephale :No can do: Ex-Bell told you, i feed at night!!!
Then i rest for a little while between meals...
That is why I keep garlic on top of my modem :)
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Oinktastic @ 9th Oct 04:58PM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!lol @ olebiker. If it's an ST516v6, that's a good way to roast your legumes!
Bicephale, dslrocker3, and whoever else is interested: Check out today's stats. It's raining and I've never seen so few errors in so much time on my line before.
Everything looks better than normal:
- The spectrum is more filled out
- The max estimated attainable rate is almost 7Mbit
- Less gaps than normal
- Very few errors (for my line)
- SNRM is holding steady at 9dB instead of 6-7dB
All this from a little rain (low pressure).
Radio waves don't do well in water, right? Could the rain be helping to shield the cables from that interference?
Only one bad apple. I mean... error. |
dslrocker3 @ 9th Oct 06:01PM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!You would probably think that rain would be bad for line conditions. However, even if you look at my thread documenting line problems, you will see me making comments about how my line would often improve the same night after a heavy rainstorm. So this really doesn't surprise me, although I'm not sure of the technical reason. Perhaps there is a portion of the wiring that is exposed and water has got in. The rain today could have moved a large portion of the water elsewhere along the wiring.... speculation of course...
If you know some other people in your area with DSL, borrow some other modems if possible. You would be surprised at how much difference there can be between different models. The Speedtouch 516 is one of the best modems for my current line conditions. However, I found that various external factors on my line previously affected the Speedtouch 516 more than other modems. In fact, it was usually one of the poorer performing units that I've ever tried. I had greatly fluctuating conditions from week to week that seemed to have different, always changing characteristics. And whenever the line condition changed, a different modem would end up on top. I was previously connected to an Alcatel DSLAM with a bridge tap along the way. On my line, I have personally seen as much of a difference as a full 1Mbps in sync rate among different modems. That's a very large difference considering that I was on a 2.5Mbps profile at that time. Before I was moved to an RDSLAM, one of a Speedstream 4200 or a 2wire 2700HG-B always outperformed anything with a Broadcom chipset. Sometimes, even both modems outperformed the Broadcom-based units (such as the Speedtouch 516).
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Bicephale @ 9th Oct 08:13PM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!Hi Oinktastic,
I've just finished my work on a graphic i'm about to publish this week-end
and by grouping my "look-alike" daily records together i ended up with no
less than five different groups (e.g. behaviours) varying from quiet to very
noisy... I believe the automn and spring are the worst seasons for testing,
because of the wild temperature and humidity ranges encountered. Maybe
if i can accumulate enough automn and spring data collections someday i
might begin to see something emerge from the comparisons but right now
the best i can do i to simply gather the data and hope for the best.
I'd suggest you collect some while the time is right: you may need it later,
even if it's not so clear what for at the moment...
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Oinktastic @ 13th Oct 10:22PM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!I checked it out. Nice work.
One of these days, I'll have to actually sit down and figure out how to make some nice graphs like that with my own data.
In the meantime, here's my connection after I fixed a ground wire in the electric socket and added a 'power filtering' power bar :P Not exactly sure what it does, but it has a nice green light the turns on now that the ground is working properly lol
Amazingly, it's been up for 2.5 days now while the errors have been just relentless...
Crazy uptime for so many errors |
Bicephale @ 14th Oct 03:09AM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!Hi Oinktastic,
A DownStream SNR Margin of only 5 dB for an Interleaved profile that's no
good news and most especially while having so many CRC errors!!! Though,
my recent experiments with two different (v6.2.29.2-GE and v6.1.0.5-AA)
Thomson FirmWares happened to lead me to some equally different results:
%20.GIF)
%20.GIF)
Our Attenuation levels are very similar so perhaps this may open the door
to an alternative: quit using v6.2 FirmWare as soon as possible. I know it
isn't an option for you to downgrade so far but you could try an upgrade!
My theory is that under v6.2 our STs are "bleeding" (waiting) for too long
until they renegociate. I'm hoping that v7.4.3.2 (which i'm presently trying
myself) might work in a more appropriate fashion... I'm not expecting much
better SNR Margins but the noise level is another story...
Of course, this might fail as i can't tell for sure what caused the different
results when i switched FirmWares but i think my other suggestion appeals
to you even less: experiment with RF Choking while it's still worth a though!
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Oinktastic @ 14th Oct 07:30AM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!The strange thing is that the SNRM has been very low, but the connection hasn't actually dropped.
With firmware 7.4.3.2, the SNRM was higher, but in the evenings, it would often drop when it dipped below 6dB.
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Bicephale @ 14th Oct 08:08AM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!Hi again Oinktastic,
At the moment my impression is that you'll have to decide which trade-off
to make, either you try to maximize the period between renegotiations, at
the cost of operating with potentially disruptive noise (e.g. dealing with all
sorts of bizare inconveniencies), either you choose to tolerate that these
renegotiations become more frequent in hope they render your connection
more reliable in the meantime. If this give-'n-take situation isn't satisfying
enough then lets see if RF Choking won't buy you some additional room!...
Sorry, beyond that my vision seems a bit blurred!
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Oinktastic @ 14th Oct 03:34PM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!said by Bicephale :
Sorry, beyond that my vision seems a bit blurred!
lol very well then. Let me know if you see any lottery numbers appear in your ball. Also, you don't see a competent Bell tech in my future, do you?
Ultimately, I'd like to get Bell's wire shortened, or whatever it takes to get that interference cleared up somehow. But, I'm willing to try to improve things for the time-being.
Those toroidal chokes seem like a good place to start. Unfortunately, I've thrown out many power supplies in the past without collecting parts and I haven't had one go bad on me in a while, so I'll have to find a different source for the chokes.
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dslrocker3 @ 14th Oct 03:46PM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!You could ask a Bell techician to cut dead-ahead (something to do with removal of extra wiring). I had it done to my line a long time ago but some technicians might even go as far as saying that they aren't supposed to do that.
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Oinktastic @ 14th Oct 03:54PM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!said by dslrocker3 :
You could ask a Bell techician to cut dead-ahead (something to do with removal of extra wiring). I had it done to my line a long time ago but some technicians might even go as far as saying that they aren't supposed to do that.
Would that be the removal of bridge taps?
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dslrocker3 @ 14th Oct 04:05PM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!I think that it's closely related but not quite the same.
My understanding of dead-ahead: the removal of unused wiring that goes past your premises. When they did it for me, my attenuation dropped 7-8dB but the apparent bridge tap still remains.
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Oinktastic @ 14th Oct 04:31PM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!Hmm. So, I would just say to the tech "Can you cut dead-ahead on my phone line?" and he would go about his business?
Completely unrelated: I'm chatting to a Bell rep online right now and they're telling me they want to charge $99 for a new demarc :S
Edit: Nevermind, they 'waived the charge'. They claim they're coming Monday to install it.
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dslrocker3 @ 14th Oct 08:13PM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!haven't an NID is necessarily a good thing. It makes it easier for Bell to blame things on your inside wiring and for them to claim that they have proof. I notice that you said that they "claim" they are coming on Monday, almost as if you don't believe anything Bell tells you!!! hahahha!!!
My experience has been that asking the technician questions might make them do 1 of 3 things:
1. tech just goes ahead and does what you are requested so that they can leave more quickly. The technician might even do a very good job and fix all issues related with your line (very extermely rare, espeicially on the first few visits)
2. get irritated that you know about that stuff and even say stuff to you like "who is telling you this stuff?" in an annoyed tone of voice almost like it is because they know that they can't b.s.you.
3. they will lie to you about things and tell you just about anything (another tech will come later to fix it, there is a bridge tap, there is a voltage cross, a Remote dslam is the only thing that that will fix things but I'm not authorized to do that, you have an inside wiring problem, you have a defective modem). Often technicians randomly pick one of these reason without even testing anything and sometimes without even showing up for a scheduled appointment. They will even have the nerve to tell you one thing in person but then close the ticket with a completely different explanation so that they don't have to do any work.
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Oinktastic @ 14th Oct 08:29PM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!said by dslrocker3 :
haven't an NID is necessarily a good thing. It makes it easier for Bell to blame things on your inside wiring and for them to claim that they have proof.
I'm not exactly sure how the NID will make it easier for them to blame my equipment. As far as I can guess, they'll try to play the exact same game that they do now: test outside, find a signal and then leave. I can't see the game changing at all after it gets installed. I just have to learn to talk to them without upsetting them too much and convince them that their snapshot doesn't paint the entire picture.
I actually want the NID to be able to wire everything correctly with proper centralized filtering and everything, not to mention grounding the line, which isn't happening right now.
Any time there's a problem showing up at the modem, it'll be easy to take a modem outside and plug it right in to the NID to make sure the problem isn't inside.
Already, I know my current problem is outside and not inside as they first claimed. I'm seeing the same patterns of errors and SNRM fluctuation whether I test inside or outside, with everything else disconnected no less.
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dslrocker3 @ 14th Oct 08:33PM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!said by Oinktastic :
I'm not exactly sure how the NID will make it easier for them to blame my equipment.
Even if there is an inside wiring problem, I have read on these forums and even been told by a technician before that they won't charge you for an inside wiring problem if the customer has no way of hooking up a device to a Bell installed demarcation point jack. At one point, this was at least true for voice service. Even without an NID, ideal wiring for DSL can still be done.
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Oinktastic @ 14th Oct 08:43PM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!said by dslrocker3 :said by Oinktastic :
I'm not exactly sure how the NID will make it easier for them to blame my equipment.
Even if there is an inside wiring problem, I have read on these forums and even been told by a technician before that they won't charge you for an inside wiring problem if the customer has no way of hooking up a device to a Bell installed demarcation point jack. At one point, this was at least true for voice service. Even without an NID, ideal wiring for DSL can still be done.
My demarc is out of commission, so I need something that's grounded to run my wires to.
By the time I get it installed, I'll have run completely new wires in the house and no amount of finger-pointing from a Bell tech will convince me that the problem is on my side.
I'll be their worst irate customer if they try to charge me for walking away from the problem. Well, definitely in their top 10 :)
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Bicephale @ 14th Oct 09:05PM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!Hi Oinktastic,
The fog in my crystal ball got denser all the sudden when you
wrote about skillful Bell technicians but i'm pleased to hear of
that NID thing anyway! My only concern if they do manage to
get one installed at your location, finally, is that a technician
may be lousy enough to re-use the drop-wire which disapears
into the wall: only God knows where it goes exactly before it
reaches daylight again, anything is possible behind the wall so
my advice to you is to be extra cautious! Don't even tolerate
such a prospect, insist that something defective could remain
connected to your phone-line inside that wall, between Bell's
drop-line and your NID!!! You're having "intermittent" troubles
after all, you may very well have a defective station protector
burried somewhere which looks good while he's around and yet
it will go berserk at random during the rest of the day... There
may be a section of damaged insulation hidden from your sight
that reacts with corroded metals nearby, etc. In any case, my
opinion is that Bell just can't garanty that this hidden drop-line
is wealthy.
Relatively to RF Choking, would that store be close enough?...
Durham Radio Sales & Service Inc.10-1380 Hopkins St.,
Whitby, Ontario
L1N 2C3
905-665-5466
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Oinktastic @ 14th Oct 09:10PM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!I'd like to try to make sure that they only install the NID and ground it, not try to reconnect it using the 30-50 year old wire that's coming out of the side of the house.
I don't think that it will be a problem, since I've run my own wire out there already. I'll make sure they use my wire and not the old one.
I could make a drive over to that store if you highly recommend it. I'm closer to the Scarborough Town Centre, but I love driving :)
Edit: I'm actually really disappointed with my connection right now. It's having a really hard time loading big pages with media content. DSLReports loads fine and quickly, but any big company's flashy website takes ages to load and some I can't even access properly. I think I'm going to have to deal with this sooner than I thought.
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Bicephale @ 14th Oct 09:28PM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!I'm not acquainted with that store but i highly recommend
Amidon products if you can get your hands of them and it
seems they do carry those:
AmidonT686, 4.95 $Another option is also possible, though i find it expensive:
Snap-On RFI Choke, MFJ 701, 2 per Pack, 1 lb, 34.95 $...and possibly inconveniently heavy as well!
Try to get a 1½" O.D. core of which they can tell what
powder type it's made of if you go there...
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dslrocker3 @ 14th Oct 09:35PM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!said by Oinktastic :
I'd like to try to make sure that they only install the NID and ground it, not try to reconnect it using the 30-50 year old wire that's coming out of the side of the house.
That's exactly what they did at my place about 15 years ago. They reused some old drop wire from 80 or so years ago to provide a connection to the basement. That drop wire has crack and knicks in the isulation and the copper is "dirty" in color. That was so "nice" of Bell to suddenly make that old wiring my responsibility! It's not even a case where they just did that because they didn't have access to the basement. They had to come inside anyway to properly ground the line, yet they still left the old wiring intact. To make things worse, they left the old, unused grounding wiring attached for absolutely no reason. When I noticed this earlier this year, the grounding wire crumbled into almost powder when I removed it. It was causing a nasty buzzing sound on the voice portion of the line.
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Oinktastic @ 14th Oct 09:38PM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!said by dslrocker3 :
...When I noticed this earlier this year, the grounding wire crumbled into almost powder when I removed it....
Lol reminds me of their infrastructure... Let's hope it doesn't get too windy
I think I'll get in touch with Kevin Crull, or at least a manager and complain about that if they pull something like that. I think they should have some sort of accountability to their customers.
Sadly I'm still one of them due to having home phone and wholesale DSL service from them :S
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Bicephale @ 14th Oct 10:10PM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!I'm looking forward for your future posts, tomorrow night!
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dslrocker3 @ 14th Oct 10:16PM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!said by Oinktastic :
I think I'll get in touch with Kevin Crull, or at least a manager and complain about that if they pull something like that. I think they should have some sort of accountability to their customers.
Sometimes it's easier just to fix things yourself and it is often better to open as few tickets as possible and to call the least possible attention to your line. Otherwise, Bell might accidently "64/64" you. (this is what they did to one of your fellow Teksavvy users - a 64/64 Kbps profile on an 8Mbps capable line!)
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Bicephale @ 14th Oct 10:18PM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!Me i'd sure would have tried RF Choking 1st...
;)
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Oinktastic @ 14th Oct 10:26PM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!said by Bicephale :I'm looking forward for your future posts, tomorrow night!
The tech is coming Monday, but I'll be here tomorrow of course :P
I'll try to pick up some chokes soon and see if those do anything. Also, I'll check around and see if I have any dead power supplies or other devices from which I can plunder.
About the line profile, I'm not sure about Teksavvy, but with 3Web, I was able to call in and they'd get my profile switched within 24 hours or so. I don't think Bell's profile shenanigans should cause me any grief.
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dslrocker3 @ 14th Oct 10:29PM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!said by Oinktastic :
About the line profile, I'm not sure about Teksavvy, but with 3Web, I was able to call in and they'd get my profile switched within 24 hours or so. I don't think Bell's profile shenanigans should cause me any grief.
When they 64/64ed that other Teksavvy user, they decided to take 4 or 5 days to fix the profile to 5056/800, suppoedly because they simply "forgot" to make the change. Someone at Bell was getting a good laugh out of that one!
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Oinktastic @ 14th Oct 10:31PM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!said by dslrocker3 :
When they 64/64ed that other Teksavvy user, they decided to take 4 or 5 days to fix the profile to 5056/800, suppoedly because they simply "forgot" to make the change. Someone at Bell was getting a good laugh out of that one!
I would hope that was a once-in-a-lifetime anomaly that doesn't happen very often. Someone should probably have gotten disciplined for that, in fact.
I could handle being lowered to 512/512 for a day or two if it meant I got to b*tch at Bhell some more :D
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dslrocker3 @ 14th Oct 10:34PM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!I would not be surprised if Bell's answer to your line concerns will be to set your profile to 3008/512 Kbps and tell you that is all your line can support. They like to do stuff like that instead of fixing the wiring.
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Bicephale @ 14th Oct 10:35PM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!Perhaps somebody at Bell is on Oinktastic's side...
Hummm... Monday, that's going to tough on me: i
doubt i'll be able to stand that much suspense!!!
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dslrocker3 @ 14th Oct 10:37PM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!I fully understand that Bell likes to do stuff that saves them money. All wiring can be fixed but it costs money to do. For my line, Bell decided it saved them money to just keep sending techncian after technician to pretend to fix the wiring. It took them maybe 15 to 30 minutes to solve all of my problems when they finally decided to do something. Would it not have been more cost effective for them to simply have done that to begin with. Oinktastic, it might be a long, uphill battle from here.
and why is the tech visit scheduled for Monday? These visits are usually within 24 hours and 48 hours at worst (even on weekends). Oinktastic did they ask you if Monday was good for you? That doesn't sound like Bell. They usually just make one-sided appointments by simply telling you that "a techician will be dispatched between 9am and 5pm, tomorrow" without giving you any choice.
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Oinktastic @ 14th Oct 10:39PM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!said by dslrocker3 :
I would not be surprised if Bell's answer to your line concerns will be to set your profile to 3008/512 Kbps and tell you that is all your line can support. They like to do stuff like that instead of fixing the wiring.
Like I said, I'm pretty determined to get down to the bottom of this. I'm going to keep bothering them for a while until someone gives a hoot. You can be sure of that :)
said by Bicephale :
Perhaps somebody at Bell is on Oinktastic's side...
Hummm... Monday, that's going to tough on me: i
doubt i'll be able to stand that much suspense!!!
Don't get too excited. This tech is only supposed to install some sort of demarcation point, which I'm hoping will resemble a NID.
After that, I'll get them to send those guys who pretend to look at the wires to fix up the DSL signal. Hopefully someone who knows what they're doing will eventually show up.
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dslrocker3 @ 14th Oct 10:44PM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!said by Oinktastic :
After that, I'll get them to send those guys who pretend to look at the wires to fix up the DSL signal. Hopefully someone who knows what they're doing will eventually show up.
Yes, they do send people who do pretend to fix things. Espcially on the first couple of visits. I would expect nothing to get done until you complain at least 3 times. One time, they sent someone to diagnose DSL problems on my line and he had no Colt or Sunset device. All he had was a telephone handset to test for dial tone. And yes, he already knew he was there to fix a DSL issue. I had to give him measurements from my computer screen for signal quality, etc. That was Bell "pretending" at worst. He forgot to at bring something to make it at least look believable! What a huge surprise that visit accomplished nothing.
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Bicephale @ 14th Oct 10:45PM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!Remember, it's a "voice" case: he's got
NOStation Protector! There shouldn't even be
a mention of his DSL service unless there's
a chance the proper POTS-Splitter type of
line module is available for Oinktastic's NID:
Corning module for UNI-3003 series NID, Bicephale, 2009-Jun-11reply
Oinktastic @ 14th Oct 10:47PM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!said by dslrocker3 :said by Oinktastic :
After that, I'll get them to send those guys who pretend to look at the wires to fix up the DSL signal. Hopefully someone who knows what they're doing will eventually show up.
Yes, they do send people who do pretend to fix things. Espcially on the first couple of visits. I would expect nothing to get done until you complain at least 3 times. One time, they sent someone to diagnose DSL problems on my line and he had no Colt or Sunset device. All he had was a telephone handset to test for dial tone. And yes, he already knew he was there to fix a DSL issue. I had to give him measurements from my computer screen for signal quality, etc. That was Bell "pretending" at worst. He forgot to at bring something to make it believable!
lol
I noticed you posted that story before. I would be hard-pressed not to make fun of that tech if he showed up at my house.
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dslrocker3 @ 14th Oct 10:48PM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!said by Bicephale :
Remember, it's a "voice" case:
Hang on a second! Since this is a voice issue with this being a case of an ungrounded line, isn't Bell Canada potentially breaking the law by taking this long to dispatch someone?
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Oinktastic @ 14th Oct 10:50PM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!said by dslrocker3 :said by Bicephale :
Remember, it's a "voice" case:
Hang on a second! Since this is a voice issue with this being a case of an ungrounded line, isn't Bell Canada breaking the law by taking this long to dispatch someone?
Could very well be, but I really only contacted them today to get it installed. I was busy reading everything and rerunning my inside wires before to question it too much.
I actually did it online as well :P 'Didn't call them up.
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dslrocker3 @ 14th Oct 10:52PM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!I'm pretty sure that Bell Canada is mandated to fix voice telephone issues within 48 hours (and yes, the techs even work Sundays).
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Oinktastic @ 14th Oct 10:54PM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!said by dslrocker3 :
I'm pretty sure that Bell Canada is mandated to fix voice telephone issues within 48 hours (and yes, the techs even work Sundays).
There aren't any storms forecasted for the weekend, so I should be okay. It makes more sense for my schedule to do it on Monday as well, actually. My weekend is crazy and I don't know when I'll be home.
I'll make sure I ask the tech all about that when I see him.
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Bicephale @ 14th Oct 10:56PM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!Are you preparing to question him with a check-list at hand, Oinktastic?
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Oinktastic @ 14th Oct 10:56PM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!said by Bicephale :
Are you preparing to question him with a check-list at hand, Oinktastic
?
;)
Lol. Would that be a bad thing? eg. too intimidating?
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dslrocker3 @ 14th Oct 10:59PM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!Since you are getting something fixed on your voice part of the line fixed, don't be surprised if this happens:
technician corrects problem on voice line which makes the DSL stop working. you question tech, tech says it's not his responsibility. you then have to open another ticket to get another Bell technician to undo what the first tech did but to do it properly this time to make the voice and dsl work. Yes, they did that one to me too.
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Oinktastic @ 14th Oct 11:03PM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!said by dslrocker3 :
Since you are getting something fixed on your voice part of the line fixed, don't be surprised if this happens:
technician corrects problem on voice line which makes the DSL stop working. you question tech, tech says it's not his responsibility. you then have to open another ticket to get another Bell technician to undo what the first tech did but to do it properly this time to make the voice and dsl work. Yes, they did that one to me too.
Wow, they really put you through the wringer. I can see that happening, so I'll be on alert.
Speaking of being alert, I should go to bed so I can be alert tomorrow! :) Goodnight and thanks for the commentary!
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Bicephale @ 14th Oct 11:08PM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!Hummm... I wonder if he's going to dream of himself
torturing that poor technician with a long check-list!
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dslrocker3 @ 14th Oct 11:13PM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!said by Oinktastic :
Wow, they really put you through the wringer. I can see that happening, so I'll be on alert.
trust me when I say that I know most of the baloney excuses. I know I am very negative when I come to Bell but wouldn't you be with the way they've treated me?
After years of being told no RDSLAM/no RDSLAM connection available, I wouldn't take no for an answer this time. They activated one of my friends who lives practically beside me and lying to me would have been really obvious this time. That might have something to do with me finally getting my 5Mbps upgrade, although 5 years later.
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Oinktastic @ 14th Oct 11:22PM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!said by Bicephale :Hummm... I wonder if he's going to dream of himself
torturing that poor technician with a long check-list!
I'll spread out the torture among the many, many techs that will grace my property in the coming weeks :P
Okay, I'm actually going to sleep now :P good night guys!
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Bicephale @ 14th Oct 11:25PM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!It seems to me dealing with Bell feels like lottery: one
doesn't know what's going to come out, all we can tell
is that one gets no winning number unless he plays!...
:p
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Bicephale @ 14th Oct 11:29PM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!Have nice torturing dreams then!
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Oinktastic @ 15th Oct 10:18PM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!said by Bicephale :Have nice torturing dreams then!
I was just getting a brand new NID with a POTS splitter built in and the tech was going to get the 'line crew' to install a brand new remote just for me!
... and then I woke up :D Not really, but just imagine :P
Quick question: is it bad to have 9 hours worth of errors (errored seconds) in 4.5 days?
Edit: Hmm. I'm also getting some strange browsing lag. When I try to load a large website, it will often load partially and then hang for what seems to be an indefinite amount of time. Sometimes when I refresh, it loads a bit more, or it might even load the entire page, but sometimes it takes many, many, many refreshes to load the page correctly and it still won't run web apps properly. It's like packet loss, but when I ping out to something, I don't see any packet loss. I do see retransmitted packets when I run the tweak tester though. I'm still trying to track down the exact source. Could this be related to all my errors, or no?
Errors out the wazoo! |
dslrocker3 @ 15th Oct 11:34PM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!said by Oinktastic :
Could this be related to all my errors, or no?
When you have a CRC error, that entire piece of infromation has to be completely resent. So yes, errors are a large problem with your line and can cause web pages to take a long time to load.
I know you tested at the connection outside already and inside to compare but you might want to check what happens to your noise margin and error rates when I call is received/placed on the phone line. those things won't show up unless the phone is engaged.
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Oinktastic @ 15th Oct 11:41PM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!So given that this seems to be affecting my actual internet usability significantly (I'll confirm it before I get hysterical), does this mean I may have another something to provide leverage against Bell?
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Bicephale @ 16th Oct 12:19AM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!While you wait for Monday you could do some tests.
For example:
»
/linequalityYour ST needs to be "pingable" for this test to work:
service system ifadd name=PING_RESPONDER group=wan
service system modify name=PING_RESPONDER state=enabled
saveall
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Bicephale @ 16th Oct 08:50AM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!Hi,
I've been thinking... Since Bell's worker won't show up until Monday
that leaves you some time to "pave" the way for him, so to speak:
Stand-Off (Open Screw-Eyes) Cable Support, Bicephale, 2009-Jun-12You may want to install those in order to make certain that the new
drop-wire is always at least six inches from any electrical element...
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Oinktastic @ 16th Oct 11:31AM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!I'll try setting up the line quality ping test. I guess that means I have to keep the same IP address for the duration of the test.
Also, I like the look of those hooks, but really, the line doesn't run anywhere near the electrical wires outside, at least not once it gets on my property. Even inside the house, the closest it gets to an electric wire is about 8 inches. That wouldn't be a problem, would it?
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Bicephale @ 16th Oct 11:49AM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!Eight inches over short distances likes a couple feet is one thing
but i wouldn't bet on having even eight inches parallel to a power
line over some long distances like fourty feet.
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Oinktastic @ 16th Oct 11:50AM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!said by Bicephale :
Eight inches over short distances likes a couple feet is one thing
but i wouldn't bet on having even eight inches parallel to a power
line over some long distances like fourty feet.
It's a foot at most. I think I'm safe.
The rest of the line is far away from all things electrical.
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Oinktastic @ 16th Oct 02:07PM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!said by Bicephale :
Your ST needs to be "pingable" for this test to work:
service system ifadd name=PING_RESPONDER group=wan
service system modify name=PING_RESPONDER state=enabled
saveall
Pardon the noob question, but how should I set this up? Should I still be in bridge mode? Isn't my router going to be the one responding if it's in bridge mode?
Edit: Well, I just set the router to respond to pings and the test went fine: »
/linequality/nil/2576379Now I have to repeat the test in the evening when it's slow
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dslrocker3 @ 16th Oct 02:59PM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!Those sound like commands that need to be sent to the modem and I think that it should work if you enter them inside DMT 7.35. You probably don't need to take the modem out of bridge mode but it will be harder to connect to the modem because it won't be assigned an IP address automatically. Personally, I prefer to use my modems in full routed mode so that I don't have to disconnect the internet to be able to run diagnostics and view line statistics.
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Bicephale @ 16th Oct 06:16PM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!Hi Oinktastic,
Ah, sorry. I'll confess i don't use an external router but if i did i'd certainly investigate this:
modem question, Bicephale, 2008-Aug-16As you can see, 'DMT' can/does reach the SpeedTouch even in "Bridge" mode, apparently!
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Bicephale @ 16th Oct 06:22PM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!Relatively to your question about nine hours worth of errored
seconds in 4½ days, again i'm sorry but my guess is it would
depend on how those errors are distributed, e.g. the "shape"
of your long-term "noise" curves...
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Oinktastic @ 16th Oct 09:10PM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!said by dslrocker3 :
...Personally, I prefer to use my modems in full routed mode so that I don't have to disconnect the internet to be able to run diagnostics and view line statistics.
Hmm I'm not sure what's keeping you from getting statistics when it's in bridge mode. Mine's always been in bridge mode and I can access it perfectly through the router.
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dslrocker3 @ 16th Oct 09:26PM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!said by Oinktastic :said by dslrocker3 :
...Personally, I prefer to use my modems in full routed mode so that I don't have to disconnect the internet to be able to run diagnostics and view line statistics.
Hmm I'm not sure what's keeping you from getting statistics when it's in bridge mode. Mine's always been in bridge mode and I can access it perfectly through the router.
Nothing prevents me from getting stastics in bridge mode but I don't like doing it in bridge.
I have a wireless router and if the modem is in bridge mode, an IP address has to be manually assigned to connect to DMT 7.35. The wireless router would have been doing the pppoe authentication so manually assigning an address to the modem would then disable the pppoe making the interent unusable. I like to be able to look at the modem stats while I am still connected to the internet and running the modem in full mode is the easiest way for me.
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Oinktastic @ 16th Oct 09:34PM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!Hmm. What make/model router are you using?
I'm using Tomato/MLPPP and I don't have that issue with manually assigning an IP address. I've set up everything so any computer on my network can access the modem.
I have a laptop gathering noise statistics and at the same time, I can access the modem from my desktop with DMT throughout the day to check out the stats whenever I want.
All my computers have dynamic IP addresses given out by the router's DHCP.
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dslrocker3 @ 16th Oct 10:34PM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!I'm using a WRT54GX v2.0. I know connecting a router (modem) in routed mode to another router probably isn't the most efficient way to handle the connection but it works so I'm not too concerned about it.
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Bicephale @ 16th Oct 11:02PM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!Noise statistics? How much did you manage to collect until now?...
;)
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Oinktastic @ 16th Oct 11:05PM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!said by Bicephale :
Noise statistics? How much did you manage to collect until now?...
;)
Many, many days, but the files are a mess :p I was getting random timeouts for some reason so I have about 30 files with several hours to several days worth of stats.
@dslrocker3: If you put Tomato/MLPPP on that thing, you can get it to forward the modem's IP automatically. If you've got another 3rd-party firmware on it, you should be able to give it a couple of commands via telnet and it should forward the modem's IP properly.
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Bicephale @ 16th Oct 11:23PM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!I invite you to PM me if you'd like to have my impressions over this data...
;)
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dslrocker3 @ 17th Oct 02:39AM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!Monday is nearing!!!!! I wonder what Bichephale's crystal ball is showing when it comes to the quality of the technician.
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Bicephale @ 17th Oct 03:50AM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!My crystal ball was so foggy one of the spirits i was trying to
talk to got distracted while he was cooking some ectoplasmic
dish and now it's all dark in there! I guess it must be a sign...
Oh my goodness!!! I think that just means they're all dead!...
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Oinktastic @ 18th Oct 01:09AM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!They're all dead? Oh my god! That's terrible! Such a tragedy, a real waste... of my telephone line :D
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dslrocker3 @ 18th Oct 01:25AM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!any traps set yet?
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Bicephale @ 18th Oct 06:13AM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!The quality technicians may be all gone but i'm still curious to see
if the one who's going to fix your line on Monday will make a real
difference, lets say somewhat like this:
»
Re: Help/Advice with my Line Statistics pleasereply
dslrocker3 @ 18th Oct 06:20AM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!The traps were in reference to one of the other forum users jokingly saying that he would set animal traps for the technicians.
Bichephale, I'm not sure if your'e trying to give Oinktastic hope or if you are trying to help me rub in the fact that my line is in better condition. Oinkstastic has already offered to trade lines!
Even with my line on RDSLAM connection date, the technician didn't want to do it. He phoned me that morning and inititally claimed that he knew nothing about an RDSLAM transfer and the ticket once again suppoedly said "slow speed".
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Bicephale @ 18th Oct 06:34AM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!Oinktastic is aware of what alternatives remain available by now,
my impression is that he wants Bell to fix everything for him so i'll
follow his adventures with interest: for that, hope would help him
a great deal indeed!...
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dslrocker3 @ 18th Oct 06:40AM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!who wouldn't want everything fixed? getting them to actually do it can be "interesting" to say the least. Hopefully, things will work out but if there are some "Bell lies" like "a remote won't help you", that would be quite entertaining.
Oinktastic, if the NID and proper grounding don't help, I have a very bad feeling about... well, let's just call them "profile games".
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Bicephale @ 18th Oct 06:59AM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!What if because he won't try RF Choking his profile ends up being
lowered? Most definitively, the NID part is a responsability of Bell
but i feel he's trying his luck by not doing everything he can from
his own side!... I fear later might very well happen to be too late.
Oinktastic, i do admire your courage for being so contemplative!!!
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dslrocker3 @ 18th Oct 07:09AM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!Oiktastic, you'd be surprised on how much difference filtering out your house wiring (or as much of it as reasonably possible) from the DSL modem can play a factor in things. Things like extra noise when a call is placed/received/when phone rings won't show up in a simple momentary comparson of modem stats at the NID and at your normal dsl line jack.
You wouldn't believe the crazy things that I use to see with signal to noise ratio when the phone would ring. On my Speedstream 5200 E242, I would sometimes see instant changes of signal to noise ratio from numbers like 10.0dB to 2.5dB if I refreshed the modem statistic page when I heard a call coming in.
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Oinktastic @ 18th Oct 03:49PM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!I have all phones double filtered from a single location now (centrally filtered). It forks at that point and one line goes off to feed the phones and one goes right to the DSL modem. The only problem is that the line leading up to that spot is about 40 feet long, however it is brand new and carefully strung to avoid electrical equipment/wires.
I've got two separate issues being tended to right now. The tech is coming to install the NID tomorrow morning. I've also opened another ticket with Teksavvy-->Bell for packet loss during the noisy times to see if that'll change anything. I hope Bell doesn't get confused by the two tickets at the same address :huh:
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dslrocker3 @ 19th Oct 02:36AM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!I fear that the 2 tickets at the same address might lead Bell to conclude that 1 ticket didn't fix a problem with an unstable line and therefore the only thing left to do is lower the profile. Oinktastic, keep a watch on your profile setting like a hawk. A friend of mine who also has a 10Mbps attainable rate line (but connected directly to Alcatel DSLAM and much fewer errrors than my line) was set to 6016/800 for a while. But for absolutely no reason, Bell lowered him to 4032/800.
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Bicephale @ 19th Oct 03:28AM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!This reminds me of a passage in 'Predator II': «
Shit happens »!
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dslrocker3 @ 19th Oct 03:41AM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!Oinktastic if they slow your profile down and phone you to tell you that is the best your line can handle, start laughing while you are on the phone with Bell. Besides, who would laugh at something like that other than a crazy person? The laughing could make them afraid of you and make them want to fix your line properly!
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Bicephale @ 19th Oct 03:49AM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!...and if laughing fails then start crying - or simulate a heart stroke!
Who knows!...
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dslrocker3 @ 19th Oct 03:51AM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!bicephale, you started it by turning my "fear comment" into a Predator thing. what's next? portorguist (i know that's spelled wrong) and people floating in the air above the bed!!!!????
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Bicephale @ 19th Oct 03:57AM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!Too bad it's not Halloween already!
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Bicephale @ 19th Oct 11:37AM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!Oinktastic, it time to go outside and start a
fire to guide Bell's worker with smoke signals
so that he finds your home... Good luck!
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Oinktastic @ 19th Oct 12:24PM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!Heh, thanks. I live in a normal residential neighbourhood, but we live on a corner lot and our door doesn't face the street where our address is registered. A lot of people go by the house several times before they decide that our house is the one they're looking for :p
I actually wasn't able to be home, but I checked in with the family and the NID was installed and then grounded to a water spout outside. Mission: successful.
When I get home, I shall do some playing :)
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Bicephale @ 19th Oct 01:16PM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!Great! Lets hope Bell won't touch your profile just yet...
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Oinktastic @ 19th Oct 03:01PM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!said by Bicephale :Great! Lets hope Bell won't touch your profile just yet...
I just missed two calls from Bell tech support :s I think it was about my internet. Darn!
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dslrocker3 @ 19th Oct 04:27PM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!Unfortunately, missing Bell's call just opened the door for them to do anything they want which usually means lowering the profile. I don't think you should have opened a ticket for the DSL until after you examined the effects of the NID installation. Since they already see you at 5Mbps and there's a trouble ticket, I fear that your profile has likely been reduced.
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Oinktastic @ 19th Oct 09:17PM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!Nope. They didn't lower the profile... yet :p
I notice my line now shows a lower max attainable rate, but I've only got 12 bad errors in the last 9 hours, which is pretty darn good. I'm not sure if they did something, but I'm fairly pleased so far.
The only thing is... I've seen my line use a fastpath profile and work all day, so I feel like I could do better than an interleave profile.
I'll run the wires properly to the demarc and try to add filtering there. Is it okay to put filters outside in cold weather?
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Bicephale @ 19th Oct 11:22PM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!I'd say it's more like a corrosion/humidity issue so if it's
not protected by a conformal layer then don't use it...
A plastic shell alone isn't sufficient, my POTS splitter is
encased in a relatively sturdy casing but nothing stops
the elements from getting inside. You'll have to verify
with the manufacturer if the model you select is OKay!
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dslrocker3 @ 19th Oct 11:33PM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!With the talk about corrossion and humidity protection, my line was missing the rubber water/elements protection lining that goes into the bottom of the NID. I noticed this back in the spring season yet it wasn't on the ground or anything. A technician must have removed it and never put it back on. How does something like that go missing, espeically when the wire goes through the middle of it? I "stole" the rubber lining from the other, unused side of the NID and put it on the side that had active wiring. maybe, i should have used that as an excuse to get a brand new NID. I'm not going to bother do that now but now that I think of it, I should have before.
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Bicephale @ 19th Oct 11:49PM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!You could argue the missing rubber seal partly defeats
the sole purpose of an NID which is to provide a reliable
reference point to the customer so that he won't need
to call for a technician just to verify his phone-line "at
the demarcation point"... So, yes. I suppose you could
and perhaps you should indeed - or you can wait for a
defect to occur and simply enjoy your new profile in the
meantime!
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dslrocker3 @ 20th Oct 12:08AM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!I should have taken the remaining rubber peice and threw it in the garbage right before the most recent technician visit. Like I said, now it's not really worth the trouble because I don't want Bell messing around my line any more. If that was done, I might never get the 6Mbps profile back! The exposed side that I "borrowed" the rubber peice from has no wiring in it so I'm not concerned (the spare side looks like it could be used for another wire pair).
Oinktastic, any line stats for us? I do hope that things remain stable on your line. The fact that Bell visited when no one was home means that you didn't get a chance to ask them to replace the old wire coming into the house. When they installed an NID for me, they had to enter the house to ground the line (but thanks Bell for not removing the bad, "buzzing/humming", nose-creating previous ground). I should have asked them to replace that old drop wire/electrical wire that feeds the house and only has 1 pair inside of it!
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Bicephale @ 20th Oct 01:47AM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!Oh boy! No ground (protection)?... I hope you're joking!!!
Oinktastic, now we need some close-up pictures please!...
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dslrocker3 @ 20th Oct 02:03AM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!Oinktastic said earlier that he wasn't home when Bell came but said that he checked with his family (not sure if they were actually home) and his line was grounded to an outside pipe. For my line, they added a new ground on the inside to a pipe (but forgot to remove a bad ground).
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Bicephale @ 20th Oct 02:25AM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!Ah! Much better...
:D
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Oinktastic @ 20th Oct 01:45PM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!I've got a ridiculous schedule lately, so I'm mostly home only to get some sleep and then I'm out again. However, I'll be able to get you some pictures today when I get home. I actually have a few hours to myself today.
The NID is fairly plain, with no POTS splitter, but I'm glad it's finally there because now I can correctly implement the filtering and also I can easily check my stats outside at the new jack. It does seem to be grounded, whether it's proper, you guys may know better. I'll try to get some pictures of the entire setup now.
I probably shouldn't have opened the DSL ticket with Bell at the same time as the NID was being installed, because now I don't know what change lead to what outcome, but the errors are strangely low right now. It's either the cold weather, or something Bell did, because I haven't changed anything else about my inside wiring within the last week.
I'm still feeling a bit jipped because there's a remote about 200m from my house, but I'll see how this new setup goes for a while :)
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Oinktastic @ 20th Oct 06:39PM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!Here's the difference since Bell did 'something'. I'm not feeling well so this is about all I can manage to scrounge up right now :(
So far there are less errors, while the RCO% has increased by 4%. Not sure if that's just random fluctuation. My line seems to change willy-nilly.
You can pretty much ignore the SNRM, because that changes constantly.
Two weeks ago |
After new NID and some Bell |
dslrocker3 @ 20th Oct 06:51PM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!it's possible that there actually is no change. Since this has been such an erratic line, it's possible that the error level only improved for the 5 hours that you were testing it. With an unstable line, it can be ok one day but turn bad on another. Only time will tell. However, that error rate is much higher than I would happy with while using only 82% of the line. I can guarantee you that you are actually higher than 82% because the broadcom chipset modems will never connect at an RCO above 92% when on true interleaved mode which leaads me to believe that 92% is really 100%.
Unless you start having major problems, I wouldn't open up any more tickets in the near future. They'll probably just downgrade your profile because they will assume that their wiring isn't the problem because they replaced some of it.
One question about the 6 resyncs that occured since you turned the modem on/reset it.... did it resync 6 times because you told it to or because it dropped the connnection? based on the fact that it says "loss of signal" and that number isn't zero, I'm assuming that it lost sync on its own. if that's case, you shouldn't be set to 5Mbps, unless something improves. If your modem had to resync 6 times in a little more than 5 hours, that's bad.
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Oinktastic @ 20th Oct 07:15PM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!The modem was on while the NID was being installed, so that accounts for some of those disconnects. The modem still loses sync a couple times a week, but it seemed to do the exact same thing, even when I was on a lower profile.
I think whatever noise causes the connection to drop will be present no matter what profile I'm set to. If I could just get them to connect me to that remote down the street :P
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Bicephale @ 20th Oct 11:44PM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!Two questions:
1) Is that an NID like the one i've got or like BryanViper's instead?
2) Was that test done "at the demarcation point"?
Now, i think the upper band has a few more bins so this could be
pointing at a real improvement. As DSLRocker says, time will tell!
:p
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Bicephale @ 20th Oct 11:46PM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!A 3rd question:
3) Will you ever give RF Choking a try!?
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Oinktastic @ 21st Oct 07:48AM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!said by Bicephale :A 3rd question:
3) Will you ever give RF Choking a try!?
Yes. I'm trying to scrounge up a toroidal choke from some old equipment I have lying around. I have an old desktop power supply I can cannibalize, but If I can't find anything, I'll make the trek out to Durham Radio.
to questions 2): No, that test was from my inside setup. I'll do some testing outside this afternoon.
and to question 1) (I know, way to go in order, eh?): I've only seen it in the dark so far, but my NID appears to be somewhere in the middle between your two devices. I'll have to double-check to see if it has the POTS splitter.
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Bicephale @ 21st Oct 09:06AM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!In between? I can't wait to see what that would be!
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Oinktastic @ 21st Oct 04:37PM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!said by Bicephale :In between? I can't wait to see what that would be!
Whoops! Now that I look more closely, it's exactly like yours...
I'm under the weather, so I don't think I'll be able to do much in the way of testing today. I'll get on that soon one of these days though.
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Bicephale @ 21st Oct 05:27PM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!OKay. The good news is that when you'll write that
you're
testing at the demarcation point it will mean
without anything else connected, implicitely (lifting
the module's lever to expose its RJ-11 test outlet is
what cuts the circuit going to everything else)...
:)
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Bicephale @ 23rd Oct 04:21PM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!C'mon Oinktastic!
Oi> My DSL problems are not inside my house...You know, i was begining to wonder!!!
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Oinktastic @ 23rd Oct 04:37PM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!lol I was going to post here on the weekend after getting some better numbers, but you seem to have found my 'leak' already :p
Now, the thing is, the line seems a
bit cleaner now that it's (almost all) been re-strung and all, but I have a feeling that a lot of the fluctuation I've seen is weather-related and the problems may return in the spring/summer of '10. A lot of users, you included I believe, have commented that cold weather brings stability for many DSL lines for whatever reason. There's also obviously a lot of other random fluctuations which I cannot yet attribute to a known source (possibly the AM radio stations you've mentioned though).
I remember the first day I plugged in my ST516v6 from 3web, the line stats were somewhere around 10-11dB downstream SNRM @ 5/.800 fastpath. It was fine the whole day (no sync loss, but with lots of errors), but my usual evening noise cut my hopes short when the line began disconnecting every 10-15 minutes.
Since I have been messing around with things, the SNRM has not really improved much. If anything, the SNRM is actually lower with the newer wires. However, I still see the same SNRM outside that I do inside as well :huh: What I mean by that is that the signal has been lower lately (however with fewer errors, somehow) both outside as well as inside.
This is semi-proof to myself that the wiring was never
that bad to begin with and that something outside of the house is causing noise and fluctuation in the signal.
So now I'm stuck here with shiny new inside wiring and I'm still getting a disconnect or two in about as many days, while on an interleave profile.
I guess it's time to get another tech to come to the house, if I can find any time to be there as well myself.
Edit: made it a bit more readable, but I'm terrible at explaining stuff as you have experienced :p
Should I still be complaining at this point, or is this about as good as I'm going to get?
lol I'm finished editing unless it's still a complete garbled mess to the untrained garble-reader, in which case I'll clarify anything you find still unclear. I think I have a real problem :huh:
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Bicephale @ 23rd Oct 05:07PM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!Yes, i also have the definite impression that the late
cold weather has brought stability to my phone-line as
well... I don't have noise curves yet but i sense one
more unsettling observation coming soon! Which makes
me insist again over RF Choking but 1st you'd need to
collect some long-term data for later comparisons...
Of course, if you're happy as is that's another story!
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Oinktastic @ 23rd Oct 05:16PM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!said by Bicephale :
Which makes me insist again over RF Choking but 1st you'd need to collect some long-term data for later comparisons...
I will, as soon as I can get my grubby hands on one :p
Of course, if you're happy as is that's another story!
I'd much rather have a connection that I can count on, but this is mostly usable for now. Because of this whole re-wiring drama and the placement of the modem, I'm still in a bit of a temporary setup with a wireless adapter instead of my trusty old Ethernet cable.
I have a hunch my wireless card is a tiny bit flaky sometimes (I've seen it experience 0.5-1.0% packet loss to the router before) and I know a wire often makes a connection feel a bit more peppy.
Still... I'm not quite ready to settle permanently for what I've got. The browsing slowdowns and occasional wavering in download speed (which I haven't explicitly mentioned until now) coupled with the re-syncs all make me look back fondly on the time my 3web cable connection worked.
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dslrocker3 @ 23rd Oct 05:56PM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!If you are confortable with firmware reflashing, why not give Speedtouch 516v6 firmware 6.1.0.5.0 a try? With the instalation of the NID, your line may act differently than before and this version of firmware will allow you to deliberately connect at a lower speed. That information would be valuable as it would show you if your connection was stable at a lower sync rate. I'm not so sure if Bell would slow your pofile setting down on you if you mess around like that but that's already a possible danger any way with all of these sync losses, if they happen to still be monitoring the line.
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Bicephale @ 23rd Oct 06:01PM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!You didn't pay attention to his avatar: here comes Garfield but
this one is "
full" with two empty pizza boxes in front of him!...
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dslrocker3 @ 23rd Oct 07:09PM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!said by Bicephale :You didn't pay attention to his avatar: here comes Garfield but
this one is "
full" with two empty pizza boxes in front of him!...
Garfield prefers lasagna! hahahahhaha!!!
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Bicephale @ 23rd Oct 07:43PM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!reply
Oinktastic @ 25th Oct 02:10PM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!said by dslrocker3 :
If you are confortable with firmware reflashing, why not give Speedtouch 516v6 firmware 6.1.0.5.0 a try?
My modem doesn't seem to want to accept any 6.1.x.x or earlier firmware. I don't know why. It only seems to want to boot with 6.2.x.x and later flashed. I've tried many, many times, with several different methods and quite a few different FW files.
I'm completely confuzzled and disappointed by this apparent result so far. The whole reason I bought this modem was for tweaking and the stupid FW won't even work on it.
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Bicephale @ 25th Oct 03:02PM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!I wish i knew the answer to this riddle. This is one of your 'DMT' captures:
Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!, Oinktastic, 2009-Sep-16...and here is one of mine with the very same FirmWare pre-installed:
%20.GIF/thumb.jpg)
Tweaks, Bicephale, 2008-Jul-12The difference is that i've got rid of all v6.2 FirmWare a while ago!...
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Oinktastic @ 25th Oct 03:17PM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!I'm getting ready to send you my modem so you can play around with it :p
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Bicephale @ 25th Oct 03:41PM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!PouHa! Ha! Ha! That would be my 5th BroadCom-based MoDem
and i'm worried because i could be stuck with those until 2020!
I thought of a simpler/more affordable solution, i've considered
reproducing your particular situation by installing the FirmWare
which gives you such trouble but then i found that mine came
with the very same FirmWare as yours pre-installed... It seems
to me the task may be difficult but certainly not impossible, i'd
probably manage to get yours flashed the way i like as well but
don't ask me what it is that you may be doing wrong.
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Oinktastic @ 25th Oct 09:30PM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!I don't notice any huge differences between the different firmwares so far. Honestly, I just see tons of errors and the occasional resync with each and every FW I've tried. None have been able to hold sync.
I've got some free time at this very moment so I'll try a couple more things. I'll put the SS4200 online for now and play around with the ST516v6 for a while.
My offer of letting you play with my 516 is still on the table :)
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dslrocker3 @ 25th Oct 10:02PM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!It is pain how users have to try 5 different modems to find a best match to the phone line. Sometimes, I think we have to start a modem trade/swap program on this board for so that users can temporarily try different models. That probably won't ever be done due to the current low prices of modems making it not worth the trouble to set up. There is no best fit model for all lines but I have found that certain models are more consistent than others when it comes to the different types of line conditions.
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Oinktastic @ 25th Oct 11:02PM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!So I hadn't realised it until now, but this is the first time I'm connecting the SS4200 after the profile switch back up to 5000/.800. And, things are looking less than stellar.
It's not even syncing at the full 800Kbits upstream and both SNRM margins are much too low for comfort. I'll keep an eye on it for curiosity's sake and keep everyone posted.
What's the best way to get error rates with the SS4200 again? I'm a bit too unorganised with all my stuff atm.
Something strange I always see first time I boot up the SS4200 and it syncs: tx errors: 1 CRC, ~25500 FEC and 68 HEC... EVERY time I reboot or do a fresh boot. It's always the same amount of errors it seems, right off the bat.
DMT |
SS4200 Utility |
dslrocker3 @ 25th Oct 11:19PM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!Oinktastic, maybe you should just keep the Speedstream 4200 as a spare. I would imagine that if you got it on Ebay, it was probably in the $15-$25 range which isn't that high of a price to pay for a readily available back up. Besides, you never know... remember how my line use to show a different model being clearly better but just on different days? When I saw the statistics on one modem on any given day, I usually knew ahead of time how well the others were going to do before even hooking them up. This of course was all before Bell rewired things for me.
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Oinktastic @ 25th Oct 11:31PM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!Browsing feels a bit snappier with the SS4200 than with the ST516v6. I believe I've mentioned that before, but it just struck me again when I plugged in the SS4200.
I'm using it now and it makes me hate Bell this much less || because the internet is almost working properly with this thing.
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Bicephale @ 25th Oct 11:44PM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!Euh... I find it somewhat irrational to want to send your ST516
to Quebec city when you could trade it for a handfull of ferrite
toroïdal cores so that you can start playing with RF Choking!...
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Oinktastic @ 25th Oct 11:49PM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!Frustration leads to irrationality in my mind.
Are you saying there are toroidal cores in the modem/power supply, or I could literally trade the modem for them? lol
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Bicephale @ 26th Oct 12:03AM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!The ferrite cores in the ST516 are much too small but you may
want to offer a deal to someone who does have suitable cores
at hand - but in your position, being located nearby the center
of the universe (well, the canadian side of it), you can be sure
i'd be done with it by now!...
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Oinktastic @ 26th Oct 10:27PM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!Okay, okay. I've had enough of your nagging. J/K I love every moment of it, and I know it's not nagging, it's geek love :p
Anyways, I went to Active Surplus, a little store in Toronto that's basically just piles of used electronic goodies. There, I picked up a 1.0" ID, 1.5" OD and (I'd say around ) 1.0" thick... wait for it... toroidal core.
Now... if you'll stop jumping up and down with glee, I'll continue my post :D
Should I be using this with the SS, the ST, or should it work equally well with both? Have you heard of it working well with one and not the other? Don't worry, I'll try it with both eventually. I'm just looking for primary recommendations.
Also, I just re-checked the distance to the nearest CO and apparently it's only 2.3km by road on Google Maps. What would the modem report for the equipment on the other end if I were actually connected directly to a CO? Just curious...
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dslrocker3 @ 26th Oct 10:43PM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!oinktastic, what's your hybrid number? (the speedstream 4200's log will provide you with a number).
I like to think that the distance on a map to the nearest central office as only the minimum distance. It can't be any less than that but will almost always be more.
sometimes, I wish i was connected to a globespan remote. The screenshots that I have seen around here seem to show that the globespan units allow more bins to be used. (there's a larger guard gap on my IKNS line than I see with other dslams/rdslams)
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Bicephale @ 26th Oct 11:04PM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!I'm glad to hear the news!!! You'll be able to pass three turns of
ordinary (flat) telephone extension cable through a 1" O.D. core,
fifteen using a 1½" O.D. core. I'd start with six turns at 1st, you
could put two 1" cores with three turns each at the ends of your
phone cord.
RF Choking won't change a thing on a "quiet" line (obviously!) but
my impression is that yours is rather noisy... The one which is 1"
thick will probably happen to be too large to be suitable while the
1" O.D. one may be too small to be noticeable.
Some "Before"/"After" long-term records would help you determine
if RF Choking works for you, in any case!
Keep in mind this product is made of ferrite powder, meaning it's
mechanically fragile. For that reason, i recommend you insert only
one turn at a time and wait at least a few hours before you take
a 'DMT' snapshot. I'd particularily pay attention to how the number
of bins varies as a function of the turns number. You can expect
the "Sweet Spot" to occur anywhere between three and fifteen
turns, maybe more maybe less depending on the powder mix...
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Oinktastic @ 26th Oct 11:13PM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!For now, I just have a single toroidal core, of the dimensions I mentioned (1"ID, 1.5"OD and 1"thick). It's quite heavy for its size, so I'm guessing there's definitely a lot of metal in it.
There were a bunch of toroidal cores, but they were all funny shapes (this place doesn't order standard sizes or anything, they have what they have). This one was the most standard-looking one that I could find. It was a bit bigger than I imagined from your pictures though.
They had some plain ferrite cores as well, but they're more like disks about 3" OD 1" ID.
@dslrocker3: I know the distance on Google Maps is the absolute minimum distance possible for the wire. I was just asking because the distance that the modem estimates is around 3.3km (a bit low given my atten.), but that could easily be the distance through the wire to the CO.
Unfortunately, the hybrid number is 1, so it's not revealing any bridge taps. I haven't tried it out at the NID by itself yet, but I'll get to try that soon, hopefully
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dslrocker3 @ 26th Oct 11:26PM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!mine also always said hybrid but I am convinced there is a bridge tap (and I think that bicephale suspects it as well). Ironically my friend one street away does get a hybrid number of 2 so I'm pretty certain that there are bridge taps in the immediately vincinity.
I believe that the estimated loop length provided by the modem is solely based on the attenuation. I would tend to say that the attenuation is an electronic reading, rather than a actual measurement of distance. ie. if you plug in an unfiltered phone to your line or plug your modem into a filter and are still able to sync, your attenuation level and estimated loop length reported by the speedstream 4200 utility may greatly increase but the actual distance has not.
Is there anything toxic in ferrite? I'm just wondering because I know that some phone jacks and wire still contain lead. (at recent as a few years ago, a splitter's packaging had a disclaimer on it).
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Bicephale @ 26th Oct 11:30PM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!Oh, that's the same one! Well, it's thicker than mine
for sure so i'd stop adding turns around eight or ten.
:o
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Bicephale @ 26th Oct 11:36PM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!I don't know what's in the powder mix other than iron
oxide. I mentioned it may be brittle because it can be
troublesome to put eight turns right away and then to
be forced to remove, then add/remove some more. In
addition, the RJ-11 connectors is quite fragile too!
:p
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Oinktastic @ 26th Oct 11:45PM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!said by dslrocker3 :
Is there anything toxic in ferrite? I'm just wondering because I know that some phone jacks and wire still contain lead. (at recent as a few years ago, a splitter's packaging had a disclaimer on it).
I've heard if you put a little ketchup on one, you won't even notice the taste! Don't worry, I brush my teeth afterwards :D
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Bicephale @ 26th Oct 11:52PM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!...with pasta and cheese, if i can rely on DSLRocker's expertise!
:p
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Oinktastic @ 26th Oct 11:56PM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!Thanks guys. I've got an early morning, so that's it for me.
Talk to you again soon.
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Bicephale @ 27th Oct 12:02AM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!Me too i guess...
:)
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zubin @ 27th Oct 12:56PM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!Hey Oinktastic, just letting you know spending the entire day yesterday that i've had the same problems with downgrading the ST516V6 firmware with the exact same symptoms (boot mode loop - flashing red/green without end) even though transfer of the older firmware was complete (trying to go down to 6.1.0.5). The original firmware it came with was 6.2.29.2 and that flashed back without incident, as well as 7.4.3.2 firmwares. I settled back to the factory firmware since I wanted RCO numbers too. Just letting you know you're not crazy...
Cheers
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Oinktastic @ 27th Oct 01:15PM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!said by zubin :
Hey Oinktastic, just letting you know spending the entire day yesterday that i've had the same problems with downgrading the ST516V6 firmware with the exact same symptoms (boot mode loop - flashing red/green without end) even though transfer of the older firmware was complete (trying to go down to 6.1.0.5). The original firmware it came with was 6.2.29.2 and that flashed back without incident, as well as 7.4.3.2 firmwares. I settled back to the factory firmware since I wanted RCO numbers too. Just letting you know you're not crazy...
Cheers
Wow. Cool that someone else experienced the same thing. At this point I'm ready to believe it's the modem itself and nothing that I've been doing.
Where did you get your modem?
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Bicephale @ 27th Oct 03:17PM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!I was "stuck" once as well but i solved my problem
later after Windows was re-installed. In any case,
there's one name which comes to my mind and it's:
Cidi RomeIf anyone has got a clue about this then that's him!
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Oinktastic @ 27th Oct 04:15PM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!If anything works for downgrading the firmware, it will be something more low-level like this. The current situation with the flash chip doesn't seem to allow those older firmwares.
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Bicephale @ 27th Oct 04:30PM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!I didn't e-Mail Cidi Rome but i searched around for
his posts and i think he may have "retired"! Sorry.
A guy has taken over, he's still active to this day:
Alex Kemp
»
forums.modem-help.co.uk/viewtopi···659#5659»
forums.modem-help.co.uk/viewtopi···602#5602I'm registered on that forum but i don't know how
to describe your problem exactly. I can invite him
to visit us or contact you directly, though...
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Oinktastic @ 27th Oct 04:38PM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!What exactly is this JTAG cable? Is it tough to obtain? Is it different from the one needed to access a WRT54G? I think I had plans to make one of those some day already.
I can get myself a bread board and the required components for the circuit, that's no problem. I just don't have a whole lot of time these days and I wouldn't know where to get this JTAG cable if it's something separate.
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Bicephale @ 27th Oct 04:54PM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!The 1st link is refering to an archive:
'Alcatel_5x6_585_608_780wl_v1.1.4'
(4508771 Bytes, 2009-Oct-25)It contains schematics, binaries, etc.
but maybe there's no need for all this
if mister Kemp would happen to know
a simpler cure to your problem...
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Oinktastic @ 27th Oct 05:23PM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!Well I wouldn't mind a quick and easy way out of this. But, whether being able to tweak would actually stop my resyncs is a completely different question.
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Bicephale @ 27th Oct 05:40PM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!I gather that's a "yes" so i'm inviting him to read this post:
»
Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users! :)
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Oinktastic @ 27th Oct 09:29PM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!Thanks Bicephale.
Btw. Here's a screenshot from the SS4200 after being up for almost a day. It had to renegotiate a slower connection apparently. It couldn't keep up with the 5Mbit profile.
The upload was the same, even after I rebooted, so that cannot be helped, apparently. Rebooting should fix the downstream, however.
SS4200 after 23 hours of torture from my line. |
Yup, I was right. The 5M came back after a reboot. |
Bicephale @ 27th Oct 09:37PM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!It seems your SpeedStream is "bleeding" (SNR Margin) like my
SpeedTouch does!... I guess "torture" fits the circumstances
all right! Do you have a snapshot with the 3rd graph window
showing your error rate?
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Bicephale @ 27th Oct 09:37PM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!Oups! Not anymore...
:(
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Oinktastic @ 27th Oct 09:40PM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!said by Bicephale :
Do you have a snapshot with the 3rd graph window
showing your error rate?
You mean the "Info 3" tab?
Where do I find the error rate window?
Edit: Also it seems both my modems behave like that, with the signal bleeding. So did the other ST516v6 3Web loaned me.
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Oinktastic @ 27th Oct 09:46PM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!Just for anyone curious... these are two screenshots from inside the modem's GUI.
Hybrid number and such |
Strange connections... |
wayjac @ 27th Oct 09:51PM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!Who makes the dslam you are connected to
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Oinktastic @ 27th Oct 09:52PM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!said by wayjac :
Who makes the dslam you are connected to
Globespan? I think... according to this shot it is.
Edit: SNRM is down to 2.5dB again... that's pretty bad.
Here's my very first screenshot ever |
dslrocker3 @ 27th Oct 09:54PM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!Oinktastic, you can delete 8/35.
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Bicephale @ 27th Oct 09:56PM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!On top of the cyan window (e.g. FirmWare info)
in the lower-left corner of 'DMT v9.01' there's a
window titled "24 h DSL Statistic" and below that
window, between it and the cyan window, there's
an options selector, between the [R] button and
the "snrmft" check-case... The option of interest
to me is titled "RxCrcErr". So, if you leave the SS
alone and there are no resets, you'll get a whole
collection of curves at the same hour tomorrow...
Then we'll get an opportunity to see your DS SNR
Margin and Rx CRC long-term curves side-by-side!
:)
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Oinktastic @ 27th Oct 10:05PM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!said by Bicephale :
The option of interest
to me is titled "RxCrcErr".
Weird.. it's greyed out at the moment, but it wasn't in a previous screenshot. There's also the 'diagnose' option in the "Special" menu. Is that the same thing?
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Bicephale @ 27th Oct 10:06PM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!I think you should take a close look at those two captures:
Yours (above)
%20.GIF)
Mine (Louiseville)
Hummm...
What's going on with the cyan window!?...
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Bicephale @ 27th Oct 10:12PM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!The "RxCrcErr" item is grey-out because the SS4200 takes a
sample every fifteen minutes only and it needs two samples
to compute the CRC Error Rate (the difference between two
readings). It should become available after half an hour...
The "Diagnosis" mode being exclusive it doesn't allow you to
display the "RxCrcErr" curve at the same time but if you do
not reset the MoDem it should be possible to display it later
by reloading 'DMT' since 96 samples are kept into the SS4200
internal memory for each parameter.
:)
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Oinktastic @ 27th Oct 10:12PM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!Hmm. If you're referring to the lack of information, I have a feeling it has something to do with taking the reading through the router as opposed to having the modem directly connected.
I would test that theory, but there are others in the house using the internet atm and I don't want to disrupt it.
Interesting catch though.
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Bicephale @ 27th Oct 10:15PM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!No problem, i understand all too well but in my opinion
it's because the FirmWares are different instead so i'm
now wondering where you got yours!...
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Oinktastic @ 27th Oct 10:16PM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!said by Bicephale :
No problem, i understand all too well but in my opinion
it's because the FirmWares are different instead so i'm
now wondering where you got yours!...
I was hoping you wouldn't say that :p
It's possible I picked up a bad one somewhere. I tried to stick to the links in this forum, but I may have gone astray.
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Bicephale @ 27th Oct 10:18PM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!Well, you're torturing your MoDems so i'm only rendering
justice!
Speaking of which, the next time your SS4200 has hickups
i'd suggest you jump on that opportunity to experiment with
your brand new acquisition: the Toroïdal Ferrite RF Choke!!!
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dslrocker3 @ 27th Oct 10:20PM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!maybe, it's a different version of the Speedtouch 516? maybe a "Gnet" version? or maybe a v5 model? (guessing on that because I'm not even sure this firrmware would work on that)
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Oinktastic @ 27th Oct 10:21PM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!said by dslrocker3 :
maybe, it's a different version of the Speedtouch 516? maybe a "Gnet" version? or maybe a v5 model? (guessing on that because I'm not even sure this firrmware would work on that)
It says ST516v6 on the bottom of the modem and there's no mention of Gnet whatsoever. I've gone over it several times very carefully.
Unless the sticker is lying to me, it's a genuine ST516v6.
Edit: During the last 24 hours, the SS4200 has been running with the phone cord turned 5 times around the choke.
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Bicephale @ 27th Oct 10:27PM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!How does the stamp compare to those?:
%20.JPG/thumb.jpg)
Tweaks, Bicephale, 2008-Jul-10reply
Oinktastic @ 27th Oct 10:30PM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!said by Bicephale :
How does the stamp compare to those?:
Identical.
My S/N begins with CP0904.
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dslrocker3 @ 27th Oct 10:30PM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!oinktastic, the difference in the DMT screenshots might just be something with the ini file. Deleting the .ini file and relaunching the program might make your screenshots look more similar to Bicephale's.
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Bicephale @ 27th Oct 10:31PM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!It would have been helpful to know what was the noise
level before the addition of your RF Choke but five turns
should definitely have some impact (but is it too little or
too much?)... You'll see a pattern if you play with it for
a few weeks, i suppose.
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Oinktastic @ 27th Oct 10:34PM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!I have screenshots of before and after the choke, but no noise curves, unfortunately.
Oct25_2009 No choke |
Oct26_2009 Before the choke |
Oct26_2009 Slightly after the choke was added - 5 turns |
3 hours later - 5 turns still |
Bicephale @ 27th Oct 10:46PM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!Hummm...
Do you feel lucky enough to add two more turns later?...
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Oinktastic @ 27th Oct 10:48PM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!said by Bicephale :
Hummm...
Do you feel lucky enough to add two more turns later?...
Sure. Later today, or later tomorrow?
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Bicephale @ 27th Oct 10:55PM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!Euh... Later when the noise bursts disconnect you!
:D
But don't touch the SpeedStream this time or it will
go amnesic!!!
;)
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Oinktastic @ 27th Oct 11:00PM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!lol alright.
So, you'd like to see me keep the SS4200 on duty, but just add another two turns?
Your word is my command :D
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Bicephale @ 27th Oct 11:10PM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!Lets see!...
The SpeedStream can record curves if left alone but there's
no garantee it won't reset and loose the data it accumulated.
The SpeedTouch has no such memory but it can be monitored
externally using TerTech's 'DSL_StatScope' to catch & display
the events...
The 1st option is dead easy and relatively reliable but the 2nd
one garantees high-resolution captures at the cost of being a
bit more involving (your computer must stay on 24 h/day)...
So, what do you think is more suitable in your own situation?...
Because if it were mine the choice is clear: 'DSL_StatScope'
is a channel on my TV!!!
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Oinktastic @ 27th Oct 11:19PM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!lol I'm not sure I'd watch that if I had it available, but I think I know the feeling :) I like watching random statistics (especially downloads) happen on my computers.
Actually, I have tons of previous collections of error statistics, I'm just too embarrassed to send them to you yet because they're a complete mess :S
It's no problem to monitor the line. I've got a laptop designated for that very purpose right now. I'll switch to the ST516 before I go to bed tonight.
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Bicephale @ 27th Oct 11:33PM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!Great!!! It's probable i can't make use of the previous
records if you can't tell them appart but i hope you'll
take notes when making changes this time!... Get me
numbers you can associate to some situations you're
able to describe and i'll be glad to take a look, not to
mention that every one else here can play back your
.CSV records using 'DSL_StatScope', actually!
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Oinktastic @ 27th Oct 11:36PM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!said by Bicephale :
not to
mention that every one else here can play back your
.CSV records using 'DSL_StatScope', actually!
Oops.. forgot about that :(
I'll try to make some of my own graphs.
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Bicephale @ 27th Oct 11:42PM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!Why feel sad?!
It's a precious user-friendly feature
of this application, on the contrary!
:D
I suggest you still collect a log-file
for closer spreadSheet examination
in case of "special" events...
:)
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Oinktastic @ 28th Oct 10:03PM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!I kept my SS4200 going just to watch the daily noise curve. I'll get the ST516 back up and running after I play with the firmware a bit more.
Take a look at that SNRM... something's got to give :p
Hanging on for dear life |
Bicephale @ 28th Oct 10:25PM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!I suggest you ignore marginal readings, the mirror-flat line
between 8:00 and 19:30, on the other hand, is stimulating
(including the noise bursts in between)!...
:D
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Oinktastic @ 28th Oct 10:26PM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!Well, it's a scalable graph right? So, the huge amount of errors overnight raised the scale to such an extent that the daytime errors don't even make it onto the chart :D
Edited: not logarithmic, sorry. Just huge :p
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Bicephale @ 28th Oct 10:32PM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!Exactly, the details between 8:00 and 19:30 vanished into
the floor so that's why a log-file and a SpreadSheet might
still prove handy. I've used logarithmic scaling successfully
to make "incompatible" curves fit together in one screen...
;)
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Oinktastic @ 28th Oct 11:43PM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!I just submitted a support form to Thompson to ask if there's any reason why my modem wouldn't be accepting v6.1.x.x.x or earlier firmware. They may or may not know the answer, but I thought it was worth a try :)
I just tried some more flashing with firmwares from Caneris and a v6.1.0.5.0 you linked to before somewhere. Still, no luck.
The 6.2.x.x.x and more recent ones always work perfectly, and older ones always fail. There's no grey area or any other factors playing into it, as far as I can tell.
Edit: I found an old screenshot where I had that same ZZQ0GE6.2T2 firmware file that you showed in one of your screenshots. Seems I've tried everything :p
ZZQ0GE6.2T2 firmware. This was at the demarc with the whole house disconnected, long ago :p |
Oinktastic @ 29th Oct 12:19AM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!What do you think this means?
Transmitted CRC and FEC errors are fairly constant, but received CRC and FEC errors really go crazy at night.
I'll have to see what happens overnight, but maybe the lower speed has eliminated some of the errors for now.
Last night it retrained to 4800Mbit sync, but not before making that huge lump of errors over on the left. At least I think that's what happened...
Tonight looks like a completely new beast. Going to go get some sleep because I look like one right now :p
SS4200 data so far |
Overall view |
Bicephale @ 29th Oct 06:19AM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!Good!
You know how i love riddles but lets be fair: i'll try yours if you try mine!!!
%20.GIF "59989 bytes")
(Riddle) |
dslrocker3 @ 29th Oct 06:28AM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!I've sometimes wondered if those -2dB or 3432732364927dB signal to noise ratio margins are really just momentary losses of sync. Whenever I have seen strange numbers like that on my line, the errors always pile up. When those weird numbers show up, the sync light doesn't flash and the modem's log doesn't record it as such, but if you have weird numbers like that, you'll probbably want to resync anyway.
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dslrocker3 @ 29th Oct 06:31AM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!said by Bicephale :Good!
You know how i love riddles but lets be fair: i'll try yours if you try mine!!!
I don't have a Crystal or Foggy Ball but to me, that graph says to me that people who are awake in that house or neighboring houses are doing something that is causing the noise. But Bicephale, I bet that's your line in that graph because it is the opposite of what I would expect from Oinktastic's line! plus, I think the error rate is just too low with respect to CRC's to be a nose curve belonging to Oinktastic's line.
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Bicephale @ 29th Oct 06:37AM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!I prefer not to imagine how it would be like if i were to reboot
the MoDem every time there's a false reading but it's true the
SNR Margin and Error Rate should improve when doing so...
Oinktastic, sorry but i guess no help will come from Alex Kemp:
»
forums.modem-help.co.uk/viewtopi···669#5669»
forums.modem-help.co.uk/viewtopi···670#5670»
forums.modem-help.co.uk/viewtopi···671#5671As you can see, he's active on the modem-help.co.uk site but
there's no answer so it seems to me you're on your own here!
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Bicephale @ 29th Oct 06:41AM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!I tend to forget things these days so, in fact, i put the answer
in the File-Name of that capture but lets not tell Oinktastic!...
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Oinktastic @ 29th Oct 12:52PM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!I'm starting to question the reliability of those numbers. I had the modem report a -2dB SNRM value last night for several minutes straight, even though the connection was still up and running normally the entire time as far as I could tell. It never even reported a disconnect from that either.
As for your riddle, Bicephale, I was thinking something along the same lines as what dslrocker said, but I'm curious about the File-Name as I cannot seem to spot it in the actual screenshot :)
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IJM @ 29th Oct 06:38PM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!Bicephale,
Your capture of CRC errors indicates that you started your logging on Oct 24th at 00:29.
What is the actual date of the posted graph? Is it Oct 24th?
Regards!
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Bicephale @ 29th Oct 08:15PM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!No, i started it a few days ago but the RF Choke was
removed on October 28 just as the file-name suggests:
'TP-Link TD-8841 - RF Choking Test (2009-Oct-28) .GIF'
Euh... I think...
There's a problem, though... I realized there was a one
hour lapse because of the summer time problem which i
endure twice a year because of Windows or something!
I don't remember if it was one hour in advance or one
hour too late, sorry... Anyway, i simply intended this to
illustrated how RF Choking affected my CRC Error Rate
and my bet is it's obvious enough...
:)
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Bicephale @ 29th Oct 08:31PM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!What's nice with SpreadSheets and "
over-sampling" log-
files, if i may, is that the aberrations you mention often
become blurred (if not simply vanish) to a point they're
hardly unoticeable. I start with a graphic which already
tries to make 5760 dots fit into 1800 dots or so, when i
shrink it again to less than 560 dots there isn't much left
of your aberrations unless they are consistent, in which
case those are no aberrations any longer but perhaps a
totally different animal i tagged "marginal events" as it's
probably not a simple glitch but an event waiting to be
explained...
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Oinktastic @ 2nd Nov 09:46AM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!Hi everyone,
This new data may not help matters at all. I just decided to post it since I wasn't at home the entire weekend and had left everything unchanged to let this data accumulate.
The modem has retrained to a further lower sync rate since my last post and the errors seem to have started a bit later for some reason. Maybe at the lower profile, it can tolerate more errors before they begin to become a real problem.
Amazingly the modem did not resync last night (the night before it reset to the lower profile), but the error 'spike' is clearly visible between 2am-8am ish. I'm not sure when this thing adjusted itself for daylight savings. Hopefully that didn't change anything on this graph.
Current picture. SNRM dropped to 7.5 in the next minute. |
Last day or so |
AkFubar @ 2nd Nov 09:50AM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!ST 516 takes it's time setting in accordance with the settings on the modem's config page. Not sure how your setting is set up tho. I have mine set to take time from an internet time server.
--
"No matter where you go, there you are." - Buckaroo Banzaireply
Bicephale @ 2nd Nov 09:53AM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!That's 'DMT v9.01', it's for his Siemens SpeedStream...
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Bicephale @ 2nd Nov 09:58AM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!Hi Oinktastic,
Can you check if the TxFecErr will repeat, like some daily cycle?...
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Oinktastic @ 3rd Nov 06:47AM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!Here's this morning's graph so far. Unfortunately, I won't be home until 5pm, so I decided to post what I got overnight.
The normal DMT shot |
The other SS4200 graphs |
dslrocker3 @ 3rd Nov 07:24AM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!there is some good news. You're only losing sync once every day or two based on the DMT screenshot.
Before I got connected to IKNS, I never had any problems on the upload, except one time. My line was always able to connect at 800Kbps on an alcatel dslam except for the time that I plugged my Spedstream into a "middle jack" on a daisy chain (where have that funny extension cord attached now). All other modems still did 800Kbps on the upstream at that jack except for my 2 speedstream modems (AR7 based). Take one guess at what the funny upload sync rate was? It was 704Kbps! Strangely, it only happened the one time at that jack and the next day that same jack and modem was bck to 800 even when no changes were made. I know it's stretch to suggest that you might have a similar house wiring scenario but anything's worth examining/considering at this point.
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Bicephale @ 3rd Nov 10:24AM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!The good news is that Oinktastic has some funny business
going on indeed: look how the events align past midnight!!
Now i'll say we have a hint at last!...
So, who wants to see if this "coincidence" will repeat again?
%20.GIF "135563 bytes")
Oinktastic - SS4200 Daily Patterns |
dslrocker3 @ 3rd Nov 10:33AM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!said by Bicephale :
The good news is that Oinktastic has some funny business
going on indeed: look how the events align past midnight!!
I'm not so sure what's worse: Oikntastic's line or the my line when I use to get CRC attacks around 1am and 11am but then at about 10pm, things would return to normal.
We could play the sign up to Bell Max 16 game. After it is activated and you have been removed to a remote, cancel and then switch back to Teksavvy. I dare say that I do not believe Bell would remove you from the rdslam as this would just be more work for them.
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Bicephale @ 3rd Nov 10:59AM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!Daily patterns are good news: they're most likely of "local" origin...
If we agree that for a same noise level measurement done at the
customer's site a noise source would need to be a lot stronger if
it were remotely located then we can see the later scenario does
not work well because so much noise would be totally disruptive,
leaving the local scenario as the most probable explanation. This
means the noise source may even be under the customer's reach
and hence he might be able to identify that source & correct the
situation...
If there's no local issue then lets point a finger at Bell's HardWare.
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Oinktastic @ 3rd Nov 01:15PM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!said by dslrocker3 :
...
We could play the sign up to Bell Max 16 game. After it is activated and you have been removed to a remote, cancel and then switch back to Teksavvy. I dare say that I do not believe Bell would remove you from the rdslam as this would just be more work for them.
Unfortunately, Max 16 doesn't seem to be available in my area. I've tried my phone number and a neighbour's number and both show a maximum of 'performance' aka 6Meg available for my area.
However this may not be all bad news. If I were to sign up for performance and complain enough, they might fix things up for me... or am I hoping for too much? :p
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Bicephale @ 3rd Nov 01:35PM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!Day dreaming again about Bell fixing everything for you?...
:p
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Oinktastic @ 3rd Nov 01:39PM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!said by Bicephale :
Day dreaming again about Bell fixing everything for you?...
:p
Always. I even dream of that at night, too!
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Bicephale @ 3rd Nov 01:51PM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!Abandon all hopes: your profile is doomed to be downgraded!!!
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Oinktastic @ 3rd Nov 01:57PM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!said by Bicephale :Abandon all hopes: your profile is doomed to be downgraded!!!
*with fingers in ears* la-la-la--LA-la-la-la I'm not listening to you! :p
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dslrocker3 @ 3rd Nov 02:13PM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!said by Oinktastic :
Unfortunately, Max 16 doesn't seem to be available in my area. I've tried my phone number and a neighbour's number and both show a maximum of 'performance' aka 6Meg available for my area.
Yes, your'e right that it is possible that Max 16 is not available for you, although I would not trust anything that the Bell database tels you. One of my friends is not even eligible for any form of DSL according to the database and he is in The Royal York/Queensway area (Etobicoke/west Toronto to you Bichephale). He is on a regular CO connection and has a fast path sync rate of 7040/800Kbps. For my house, Bell lists everything as being available. Guess what it says for my next door neighbor? It says for them only Max 12 and Max 16 are available. How is that one possible? they can't get performance? lol.
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dslrocker3 @ 3rd Nov 02:15PM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!said by Bicephale : The local/remote noise diagram almost seems to say to me that if signal attenuates, so can noise.
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Bicephale @ 3rd Nov 02:37PM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!Be it signal energy or noise energy that's energy and it
will be dissipated because of attenuation but right now
what i wonder about is what causes such a continuous
stream of errors in the 25 - 138 KHz band, actually!...
I mean, could it be a noise source somewhere nearby or
is it the result of a "Bridge Tap" his SS4200 can't see???
In any case it seems to be relatively close to the house,
unless it all simply results from defective Bell HardWare...
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Bicephale @ 3rd Nov 03:08PM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!I have an idea. If it's a daily pattern then lets determine
when the "ErrSec" peak can be predicted to occur more
precisely and then it should become possible to capture
suspicious bins using 'OrbMT' to create an animated .GIF
of the spectral response graph!...
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dslrocker3 @ 3rd Nov 03:23PM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!said by Bicephale :
I mean, could it be a noise source somewhere nearby or
is it the result of a "Bridge Tap" his SS4200 can't see???
Notice how I mentioned earlier that I got that exact same 704Kbps number but only with speedstream modems at a "middle" jack of 2 daisy chained ones? I got that when i removed my purposely installed internal bridge tap and connected my modem there. coincedence? maybe, maybe not. I can't help but think that there could be a similarity/relation.
It's almost as if Oinktastic's signal is partially and unnaturally went into "hiding" after about the 550KHz mark. The strange part is that the bins are there which you think would have dissapeared completely at the higher frequencies. The drop off in bits per bin seems kind of sudden to me.
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Bicephale @ 3rd Nov 04:14PM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!Lets not forget the timing: it was quiet at 6:40 in the morning...
In addition, i've noticed bin #32 was part of his UpStream band!
Which makes me wonder even more. What if Oinktastic were able
to force his SS to negotiate a specific modulation scheme? What
if remotes happened to prefer 'ANSI T1.413' over 'ITU G.992.1'?!!
%20.GIF "10479 bytes")
Oinktastic - SS4200 Spectral Response graphs (2009-Nov-3, 6h40) |
%20.GIF "30520 bytes")
Oinktastic - SS4200 Weird US/DS Mix (2009-Nov-3, 6h40) |
wayjac @ 3rd Nov 05:28PM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!said by Bicephale :
What if Oinktastic were able
to force his SS to negotiate a specific modulation scheme? What
if remotes happened to prefer 'ANSI T1.413' over 'ITU G.992.1'?!!
Some speedstream modems will allow the user to force a specfic modulation instead of the default multimode using the cli
The dslam may or may not allow this
I would like to know what happens if ANSI T1.413 mode is set, what happens to the max sync rate
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Bicephale @ 3rd Nov 06:04PM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!I'll second that and add options like "trellis"!!!
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Oinktastic @ 3rd Nov 10:37PM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!said by wayjac :
Some speedstream modems will allow the user to force a specfic modulation instead of the default multimode using the cli
The dslam may or may not allow this
I would like to know what happens if ANSI T1.413 mode is set, what happens to the max sync rate
Any idea how I would do that? I'm still not too familiar with the modem as I don't really have much time to play with it these days.
Here are the latest stats, just for fun :) TxFec errors are different today :S they confuse me ..
Line at 1030pm tonight 11/03/2009 |
1030pm stats 11/03/2009 |
Bicephale @ 3rd Nov 11:54PM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!Well done! It seems the spike occurs around 1:47 after midnight...
I'll search to see what i can find about setting the SS4200 to ANSI
T1.413 when i get a chance but right now you should act quick and
start 'DMT v9.01' in "Diagnosis" mode before it's too late for a nice
daily record...
;-)
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Oinktastic @ 4th Nov 07:36AM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!It's really weird.. that single spike is appearing (to the SS4200) every morning around 1:47 like you said. I hope that's not just a problem with the modem :s that would be unfortunate.
I'll set up DMT for diagnosis mode now. I'll include all the same stuff that the SS4200 is recording so far.
730am 11/04/2009 |
730am 11/04/2009 |
Bicephale @ 4th Nov 09:00AM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!That's certainly puzzling but three times around 1:45 is no coincïdence
so i think it's about time we pay attention. If another brand/model also
captures that peek you'll know it's not your SpeedStream so that could
be your next (2nd) test... This brings us right into the week-end!
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Oinktastic @ 4th Nov 03:44PM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!Do you think I should switch back to the ST516 for now?
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wayjac @ 4th Nov 04:12PM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!said by Oinktastic :
Any idea how I would do that? I'm still not too familiar with the modem as I don't really have much time to play with it these days.
You would start a telnet session
I think that setting will be nested in the "cnfg" command
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Bicephale @ 4th Nov 04:48PM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!Oi> Do you think I should switch back to the ST516
Oi> for now?No, personally i'd choose to collect one complete 24 h record
from each unit to be able to compare them later... It's easier
to synchronize records after setting hour marks if the record's
boundaries begin and end beyond the desired day. I'd be real
pleased if you could get me a set of *
full* 24 h records that
begin at least a few minutes before midnight and end at least
a few minutes past midnight the next day. Of course more is
OKay if that's what it takes to make the operation convenient.
I'd love to have a graphic showing this daily pattern revealed
by two different MoDems but the decision is yours... What do
you say? Isn't that worth it to complete the SS4200 log 1st?
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Oinktastic @ 4th Nov 05:02PM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!said by wayjac :
You would start a telnet session
I think that setting will be nested in the "cnfg" command
Okay, this is awesome. My geek sense is tingling.
I just changed it to use ansi.
Here are the other DSL modes it supposts...
SpeedStream Telnet Server
login: Administrator
password:
User logged in
xsh> cfg dsl{mode=
mode = ansi [mult,ansi,dmt,lite,dsl2,auto,ds2p,red2,naam,emt]
xsh>
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Oinktastic @ 4th Nov 05:04PM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!Also, here's what the DMT screenshot looks like now.
Switched to ANSI and rebooted. |
wayjac @ 4th Nov 05:13PM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!The default mode should be "mult"
mult = MultiMode
ansi = ANSI T.413
dmt = G.DMT
lite = G.lite
dsl2 = Adsl2
auto = auto Mode
ds2p = Adsl2+
red2 = Reach Extended Adsl2
naam = No ANSI auto mode
emt = Enhanced multimode
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dslrocker3 @ 4th Nov 05:14PM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!said by Oinktastic :
Also, here's what the DMT screenshot looks like now.
The downstream bit allocation looks a little more filled out to me now but that's a lot of corrected errors for 3 minutes!
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Oinktastic @ 4th Nov 05:18PM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!I think I'm going to try other DSL modes, just to see what happens :p
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dslrocker3 @ 4th Nov 05:19PM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!said by Oinktastic :
Also, here's what the DMT screenshot looks like now.
The downstream bit allocation looks a little more filled out to me now but that's a lot of corrected errors for 3 minutes!
years ago, I had a Linksys ADSLME1 modem that how all sorts of options about standards type and dslam vendor selection. Back then, I didn't really notice the difference but it did greatly change the attainable rates reported by the modem (the numbers didn't seem accurate as if the modem would miscalate the numbers if you chose the wrong settings). I didn't know what any of that stuff meant back then and never really got really got around to examining the effect of the different settings.
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Bicephale @ 4th Nov 05:26PM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!Bin #32 (1st DS bin) is still green in ANSI T1.413 mode
so perhaps this could point at yet another IKNS bug!...
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wayjac @ 4th Nov 05:29PM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!Try this command "show bins"
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Oinktastic @ 4th Nov 05:31PM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!said by wayjac :
Try this command "show bins"
How do I send the output to a file again? It's displaying 500+ lines, mostly with zeros. The top 200 disappear off the top of the console where I cannot see them.
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wayjac @ 4th Nov 05:37PM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!I only know how to copy/paste from the command prompt window
Click the cprompt icon.......edit.........mark........copy
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Bicephale @ 4th Nov 05:38PM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!You need a real TelNet terminal emulator to capture long texts:
»
www.hilgraeve.com/hyperterminal.htmlreply
Bicephale @ 4th Nov 05:40PM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!Try this console command under Win XP or older:
HyperTrm
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Oinktastic @ 4th Nov 05:41PM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!Yea I just remembered Hyperterminal before you posted. This is back on ITU G.992.1.
I have to watch for when other users on my network aren't using it before resetting the modem :p
Edit: It's going to be really hard to compare apples and apples. The longer the modem stays on, the lower the SNRM margin gets as it trashes bins. If I send you the ANSI bin file now, it'll probably look good in comparison because I just rebooted into ANSI mode again.
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wayjac @ 4th Nov 05:45PM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!You mean if the internet is down others gather around you?
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Oinktastic @ 4th Nov 05:46PM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!said by wayjac :
You mean if the internet is down others gather around you?
Lol, no, but I get a loud holler from the other room along the lines of "WHAT HAPPENED TO MY INTERNETS??"
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Bicephale @ 4th Nov 05:51PM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!You could start 'OrbMT' with the animated .GIF feature
enabled before you go to sleep and post the graphic in
the morning. I bet around 1:45 you'll see what goes on
with a new perspective...
;)
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Oinktastic @ 4th Nov 05:54PM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!Sure I'll try starting up OrbMT.
Here's the ANSI bin file. Note, both of these were taken only several minutes after a reboot and the modem hasn't had time to fully adjust.
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Bicephale @ 4th Nov 06:08PM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!There's no hint in the text captures which explain why
'DMT' decides to paint bin #32 in green, this may be a
problem with 'DMT' itself, i wonder. We'll see when the
'OrbMT' captures get posted!
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Oinktastic @ 4th Nov 06:27PM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!What sort of time interval should I use for the OrbMT capture. Also, should I just create the *gif file, or should I use any of the logs as well?
It's not giving much information at all right now about the connection :s would a different OrbMT/fw version be more revealing?
Edit: the ST516 is definitely much better at giving out statistics so far.
The Orbmt capture is a fairly paltry display atm. |
Bicephale @ 4th Nov 06:48PM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!Four samples per minute (15 sec) always worked fine for me no
matter which brand/model i've used so far. 'OrbMT' doesn't log
any Error Rate information, only SNR Margins and BitRates if i'm
not mistaking. So, if you need a detailed log i'd rather use some
other utility like 'RouterStats' which will leave the TelNet server
alone since it's HTTP-based instead. Both applications can work
concurently as each one has its own server (TelNet vs HTTP).
Unfortunately, this applies to the SpeedTouch only because it
turns out that 'RouterStats' can't deal with the SpeedStream
as a consequence of its web GUI format. You can try to run a
pair of TelNet-based tools like 'DMT' and 'OrbMT' by launching
one about seven seconds after the other, hoping they never
question the MoDem's TelNet server all at once...
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Oinktastic @ 4th Nov 07:20PM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!Hmm. So what's the best way to collect error stats from my SS4200? Is it just that same way I've been doing with the screenshots every morning from DMT?
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Bicephale @ 4th Nov 09:18PM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!As i've explained before, the 'DMT' graphs are made of samples
recorded four times per hour while in "Diagnosis" mode you will
be able to set that to four times per minute instead. The later
resolution may suffice for the purpose of catching whatever is
taking place around 1:45 each morning and the animated .GIF
generated by 'OrbMT' should render the event easy to grasp...
I think 'DMT' and 'OrbMT' used as suggested would complement
each other beautifully. So, if you start recording tonight before
midnight you'll have your SS4200 record set by Friday morning,
then the same operation using your ST516 leads us to Sunday.
If the records are suitably collected it's relatively easy to make
comparisons using a SpreadSheet but don't ask me what it will
be good for until i've seen the results of that analysis because
my crystall ball hasn't returned from the factory shop just yet!
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Oinktastic @ 4th Nov 09:38PM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!Oops... I keep forgetting about the diagnosis option in DMT.
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Bicephale @ 4th Nov 09:47PM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!I'm sure you'll come to value the power of that mode after a while!
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Oinktastic @ 5th Nov 07:46AM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!Okay, slight change in the spike tonight... could it have to do with ANSI mode being set instead of ITU?
It seems to have only showed up in the received CRC errors graph, and it was at 4am instead of just before 2.
Where it previously showed up on the ErrSec graph, there's now just a flat line :s
1 747am 11/05/2009 |
2 same as others. Used to have a whole display mountain of these errors. |
3 same as others |
4 same as others |
5 same as others |
6 same as others. Previously revealed spike. |
dslrocker3 @ 5th Nov 07:51AM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!that's a remakably low CRC number over 13 hours considering the how much the connection degrades in signal to noise ratio from the time the modem intially connects. I'm also a little surprised that you don't appear to be having major problems in losses of sync. Looking at the atronomical amount of corrected FEC, I don't even want to know where you would be if interleaving wasn't turned on.
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Oinktastic @ 5th Nov 07:54AM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!When I don't have interleaving turned on, yea, it's a nightmare. It loses sync constantly at night without interleaving.
With the interleaving turned on, I get a disconnect or two every few days, but it's hit and miss.
The attenuation reported by the SS4200 is significantly higher when the modem when in ANSI mode as opposed to ITU 48.5dB vs 45-46.5dB.
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dslrocker3 @ 5th Nov 07:59AM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!any plans to play with a 2wire or a gnet? different modems can perform significantly different on a given phone line. Knowing that, finding the best match for you line is really just trial an error as one modem may perform better on one line but a different one better on another. Sometimes, the best modem on your line will even change from day to day, depending on what the current conditions are.
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Bicephale @ 5th Nov 09:42AM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!It's really puzzling to see his Attenuation level change like that,
too bad it didn't raise the UpStream BitRate to a full 800 Kbps!
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dslrocker3 @ 6th Nov 08:24AM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!I'm trying to think of what could be occuring at niight to cause this increase noise as it does seem like this happens into the late hours.
Are people awake during these hours or is everyone asleep?
Are there changes in the way that radio signals travel at night (different atmospheric conditions possible too)?
Is someone getting a midnight snack and cooking in the middle of the night which causes moisture to get into the wiring?
Street lights on timers?
and this one that I just realized that could be worth examining:
Its getting much colder at night these days and it stands to reason that you woud have your heat turned on. A furnace uses electricity and a motor and it is often near the place of wiring entry into the house. What if there was a link between increased heating system activity and the line noise?
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Oinktastic @ 6th Nov 09:58AM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!The other night when there was a spike at 4am, no one was up. I checked with everyone and they said they were all sleeping at that time. And, I trust their word on that one :) I'd like to think there are few secrets in my family. Sneaking a pot roast at night definitely isn't one of them.
Sometimes when the clothes dryer kicks in, the lights in the entire house flicker, but I've been checking the statistics and signal after that happens lately and so far, there's no noticeable effect let alone a comparable increase in errors during that interval to what I see at night. I've got the modem on a fairly decent power bar which is supposed to do some sort of power filtering. I'm not saying it's eliminating the problem, but there's been little evidence to me that the power supply could be the culprit.
As for your theory, the new line passes near the gas lines and near the furnace as well, but I would expect to see error spikes all day as the furnace kicked in, if it were a problem. We've got temperatures hovering above zero outside lately, so the furnace is needed the entire day.
Also, this problem was present back when the furnace wasn't needed and we ran a big fan in the house to keep the temperature down. I just mention the fan because I remember unplugging it and watching for errors with and without it plugged in. It's a pretty big motor, so I would suspect it would induce some noise on the house's lines. I wrote it off as an innocent bystander after a while.
Anyway, I've seemingly ruled out certain heating and cooling devices, but there's a possibility that the noise could be entering the house somewhere in the power lines I suppose. I would have to run the modem off of a battery to completely rule the electricity out. I don't really have any plans to purchase a UPS, but I could get/build a DC power source, which could serve me in many other experiments as well.
I'm still leaning towards the AM radio frequency theory, because so far it seems to fit the best. Since Dslrocker mentioned that radio towers increase their output at night, I did some searching and found matching information. This provides an explanation for my decreased performance at those times. However, the missing spectrum which corresponds to local stations could also just be an effect of the SNRM weakening. The radio signals would then appear stronger compared to the weaker DSL signal. Cause, or effect? hmm..
Just gotta keep trying :)
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dslrocker3 @ 6th Nov 10:04AM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!said by Oinktastic :
Just gotta keep trying :)
It's quite possible that you can't do a thing on your end to get rid of this problem but it would be of course in your bests interests to rule out anything that you can possibly think of. Hopefuly, you can get your line fixed quickly because I think that Bicephale is still having nightmares trying to think of a solution for this line!
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Oinktastic @ 6th Nov 10:18AM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!said by dslrocker3 :
It's quite possible that you can't do a thing on your end to get rid of this problem but it would be of course in your bests interests to rule out anything that you can possibly think of. Hopefuly, you can get your line fixed quickly because I think that Bicephale is still having nightmares trying to think of a solution for this line!
Uh oh. Bicephale, if you're worrying too much about this... please don't! I'll manage, don't worry about me. I mean, I love your input, but don't lose any sleep over this.
My last step before getting another tech out here will be to install a POTS splitter instead of the microfilters I'm currently using (however they
are implemented in a centralised fashion). I'll also try some Cat5 to the modem instead of the flat cable I'm currently using and I'll try to place the modem closer to the NID. Right now, the wire is still rather long, even though it's brand new Cat3 and is specifically run to avoid other wires. I guess I have to figure out how to crimp a cable.
When that's all in place, I'll get another Bell tech out here and hopefully I'll not have to use my 'outdoor' voice with him :D
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dslrocker3 @ 6th Nov 10:23AM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!said by Oinktastic :
implemented in a centralised fashion). I'll also try some Cat5 to the modem instead of the flat cable I'm currently using and I'll try to place the modem closer to the NID.
I can no longer reproduce my DSL horror show at my place but there was a time that changing the phone wire connected to the modem would yield signficant differences in results. I could not see anything different about the different cables but on some days, some wires would clearly work better than others but on the next day, there would be no difference. (just as one day one modem would be the best for my line but that would also change a few days later).
this was only a one day test but it does show how different phone cables, even when very short length, can affect your connection:
»
Can't get good sync? try a different cable, try lots of themreply
Bicephale @ 6th Nov 10:41AM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!Hi Oinktastic,
My only frustration is to not
SEE what you're talking about when
i know that you're aware of a few good trouble-shooting tools...
Anyway, today's intervention is meant to shead some light on some
totally different noise propagation mode which you seem to overlook
while mentioning noisy appliances and a cleaner PSU for the MoDem:
ST516 - Strange discovery, Bicephale, 2008-Oct-25This schematic illustrates my belief that heavier consumption of
electricity translates into heavier conduction which in turn, in a
noise induction loop, will allow a heavier amount of airborne noise
(collected above the streets on top of the poles) to be injected
into the phone-line because of its proximity with electrical lines
at some point. TerTech's whole thread was quite an adventure,
i recommend it as an informative reading for any individual who's
encountering "strange" problems...
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Oinktastic @ 6th Nov 11:00AM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!Thanks for your link on different cables, Dslrocker. I've been starting to experiment with different cables myself, but I haven't noticed much of a difference yet. My problem is that I don't have many and they're mostly all crappy, flat single-pair cables which came with DSL modems and I don't know how to crimp my own. Yet... I'd love to make a phone wire out of a Cat5 cable. I guess I should pick up a crimping tool and some rj11 connectors.
Bicephale, wouldn't I be seeing more noise during peak electricity hours, if overloaded power lines were the culprit?
Although they may be close to each other somewhere out on the street, once the two lines arrive at my property, they're on opposite corners of the land. The phone line comes from a right-of-way strip along the backyard, while the power lines to my house come in from the street. The phone line also enters the house near the gas main, which is at the opposite end of the house from the electrical/fuse panel. They're never near each other that I can see. If there's somewhere in the neighbourhood where the power lines are close to the telephone line, I'll never be able to do anything about that, short of illegal cutting :p
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Bicephale @ 6th Nov 01:23PM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!In my schematic illustration the power applications are
purely
resistive and the PSU is
noise-free but since you garantee us
there's no noise induction site on your property now it's clear
it has to be elsewhere anyway!... If you ask me i'll say in the
poles so i doubt you can fix it if that's effectively the case!!!
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wayjac @ 6th Nov 03:48PM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!said by Oinktastic :
My problem is that I don't have many and they're mostly all crappy, flat single-pair cables which came with DSL modems and I don't know how to crimp my own. Yet... I'd love to make a phone wire out of a Cat5 cable. I guess I should pick up a crimping tool and some rj11 connectors.
Up until recently the phone cable included with the dsl modems were like the gray one below.
[att=1,l]
Now they include the normal flat phone cable like this green one. I don't think you'll notice any difference unless you have a really weak dsl signal
[att=2,l]
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dslrocker3 @ 6th Nov 03:55PM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!said by wayjac :
I don't think you'll notice any difference unless you have a really weak dsl signal
Wayjac, you're probably right about Oinktastic's line not caring too much about the short wire plugged into the modem. Most standard cables are just cheap, flat ones that plug into the device. In my case, I had that really messed up line that did a whole bunch of strange things and changing cables, even among different cheap, flat ones sometimes made large differences, proportion to the total capacity of the line at that time.
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Bicephale @ 9th Nov 11:53AM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!Hi Oinktastic,
I had a quick look at the data you provided to me. Lets begin
with the easy part! This graphic was generated without doing
any SpreadSheet manipulation other than to remove the lines
before 6 am and those after noon in order to get curves which
got better centered around the event of November 8 at 9:56.
The rest of the work only required graphic editing and this was
possible because of the format used by 'DSL_StatScope' which
differs from that of 'DMT'. Also, i must mention that the scales
were loosely compatible; more number crunching would have
been needed if they had not, otherwise.
%20.GIF "20674 bytes")
ST516 vs 'DSL_RouterStats' (2009-Nov-8) |
Bicephale @ 9th Nov 09:21PM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!Hi again Oinktastic,
Here comes the other part, there's only one complete daily record.
%20.GIF "94589 bytes")
Oinktastic - Siemens SS4200 vs 'DMT' in |
Oinktastic @ 11th Nov 07:53PM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!Thanks Bicephale!
My line just went crazy for the last few days. Either something's changed, or the ST516 is starting to suffer from overheating. It has disconnected 46 times within the last week or so. All of this drama occurs when the line is suffering from errors though.
This is strange... I never used to have tx errors with my ST516, but now it shows quite a few. I am running a different firmware from before. Could this be the cause?
I also noticed something else of interest to me, however it's on a completely different topic. When I do a traceroute, my first hop and several thereafter show up as Teksavvy IPs even though I'm sure Bell's equipment ends up in there somewhere.
How does that work? I never see Bell IPs on my route.
Also, the Teksavvy IP (or could it be Bhell's?): 69.196.136.34 seems to drop quite a few packets for me. My line just went down and now I have a different route (69.196.136.66 and 69.196.136.44 are both fine) which doesn't drop packets, but that hop x.x.x.34 drops about 5-10%+ packets for me. I may end up posting in the direct forum about this.
Current situation |
wayjac @ 11th Nov 08:29PM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!said by Oinktastic :
I also noticed something else of interest to me, however it's on a completely different topic. When I do a traceroute, my first hop and several thereafter show up as Teksavvy IPs even though I'm sure Bell's equipment ends up in there somewhere.
How does that work? I never see Bell IPs on my route.
Your traffic is on bell equipment until it gets to the teksavvy router. You don't see the bell equipment because ip info is at a higher layer
You should be using a bell access concentrator it only shows up in the pppoe log
Here's a image that shows what I'm trying to say
Transport diagramKeep in mind there may some differences
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Bicephale @ 11th Nov 08:55PM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!Hi Oinktastic,
Any particular reason for using FirmWare v6.1.9.6 which was the
most 'DMT'-hostile release before the following v6.2 releases?...
I notice the 'DMT' item named "get Data for Graph" isn't selected.
Chances are 'DMT' in "Diagnosis" mode or even 'DSL_StatScope'
won't be supported by this version... If you're up to it, lets just
gather enough data under different FirmWares like v6.1.0.5 and
v7.4.3.2 and then you'll be in a better position to choose one!
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Oinktastic @ 13th Nov 01:52AM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!@Bicephale
The graph doesn't seem to be available with that firmware, unfortunately. I tried, and it gives some error and turns all three boxes black.
I'm also still unable to get fw v6.1.0.5 on there. I tried again... *sigh*. I swear this modem is incapable of running that firmware.
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Oinktastic @ 13th Nov 01:55AM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!Okay I'll admit it. There still appears to be something wrong with the setup inside the house. I'm not sure if it's the warmer modem-operating temperatures, or the lines themselves, but there are significantly more CRC errors inside, it seems. At least from this short test there were. Everything else is practically the exact same, except those CRC and HEC errors, along with the US SNRM being one point better outside. Those fluctuate 1-2 points both inside and outside. It was just luck that I caught both DS SNRM at the same spot there.
I gave it 15 minutes outside and then let the modem run 15 minutes inside before taking the shot, for a 1-to-1 comparison.
I noticed the modem stayed nice and cool outside, given that the temperature outside is around zero degrees right now.
However, as you can see, there are a substantial amount of errors measurable even outside at the demarc. Does that count for something? :p
Outside at demarc (test jack) |
Inside at current setup |
Bicephale @ 13th Nov 04:40AM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!Hi Oinktastic,
Fifteen minutes that's a bit short but you got the idea. Did you
try this FirmWare version? The very last 'DMT'-friendly version,
although plagued by a five minutes "nag" delay as well but with
its other features still available, as you can see...
%20Gif%20Animation%20.GIF)
From the ground up!, Bicephale, 2009-Jan-8I notice your 'DMT' captures have different "Information" cyan
sections, any hint why?...
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Oinktastic @ 13th Nov 11:08AM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!Hello,
The cyan regions were different because I clicked "refresh" before taking the shot, whereas I had only just connected for the other shot. At least I think that's the difference.
Actually, they may have been taken from different computers. I'll verify when I get home :)
I don't know if I've downloaded that firmware yet (6.1.4.6.0). I'll see if I can find it somewhere. None of the DMT-friendly firmwares that I've been able to get my hands on will load onto the modem yet :(
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Bicephale @ 13th Nov 12:42PM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!Hi Oinktastic,
I found two versions of the v6.1.0.5 FirmWare:
»
mirror.opensourcehub.com/pub/spe···6.1.0.5/Did you have both handy?...
This is 'ST5x6UK-firmware6146.zip', i inclosed
it in the present post, for your convenience:
FirmWare v6.1.4.6-UK (2143989 Bytes, 2006-Jul-12)Don't forget to backup your configuration files,
these could save you some time & frustration...
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Bicephale @ 13th Nov 12:53PM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!Hummm...
There's something bizarre about the site with two v6.1.0.5
FirmWare so i guess i should simply publish these two here:
»
mirror.opensourcehub.com/pub/spe···0AA6.105»
mirror.opensourcehub.com/pub/spe···.105.bin :p
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Bicephale @ 13th Nov 01:10PM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!Relatively to the configuration backup...
This is how to proceed via FTP access:
Thomson SpeedTouch 5x6v6 FirmWare v6.2.H (v6.2.17.5), Bicephale, 2009-May-10But instead of "del" (in red) type "get" or
just try one of those links, if you prefer:
'user.ini'
'ftp://dsldevice.lan/dl/user.ini'
'ftp://speedtouch.lan/dl/user.ini'
'ftp://10.0.0.138/dl/user.ini'
'ftp://192.168.1.254/dl/user.ini'
'user.tpl'
'ftp://dsldevice.lan/dl/user.tpl'
'ftp://speedtouch.lan/dl/user.tpl'
'ftp://10.0.0.138/dl/user.tpl'
'ftp://192.168.1.254/dl/user.tpl'
The command to restore is "put"...
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Oinktastic @ 13th Nov 02:25PM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!Thanks for the firmwares. I'll try 'em out soon.
I've noticed that the different cyan windows in DMT appear differently depending on the computer I'm using. Are there different versions of DMT 7.35 that I could be using? I wasn't aware that I had more than 1 version of that software.
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Bicephale @ 13th Nov 05:30PM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!Hummm... When you try to DownGrade do you try
it on both of these different Windows stations?...
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Oinktastic @ 13th Nov 09:02PM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!said by Bicephale :
Hummm... When you try to DownGrade do you try
it on both of these different Windows stations?...
Yes. I've tried both of those computers (my desktop and my laptop). I've got some more computers I can try using as well though :p
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Bicephale @ 19th Nov 11:20AM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!So... How's it going?! Any progress?...
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Oinktastic @ 19th Nov 12:49PM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!said by Bicephale :
So... How's it going?! Any progress?...
The modem seems completely immune to firmware 6.1.0.5 and certain other, older firmwares. I don't know why, but I think I've given up on that.. again :) Thompson never e-mailed me back about it, but maybe they don't want to bother with people voiding their warranties :p
Seriously if you want me to send you the modem, I'd be happy to. It's redundant and not even fulfilling its purpose properly.
I think I'm going to order a POTS splitter from Teksavvy and put that inside the NID. I bought some Cat6 wire to use instead of my Cat3 and I'm really hoping that POTS splitter will help lessen my errors. I have no idea why I'm getting errors with my completely new wires and centralized filtering setup.
Actually. I think I may know why... Let me post a diagram and you tell me what you think...
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Oinktastic @ 19th Nov 01:16PM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!Through the magic of Paint, I bring you my current wiring. It's actually terrible now that I think about it, because I've introduced a 40ft bridge tap inside the house :s... I'll have to think long and hard about why I decided to do that in the first place. I'll mess with the wires tonight and see if I can improve it.
I see my folly now that I drew it out lol |
dslrocker3 @ 19th Nov 01:42PM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!Oikntastic, your MS Paint skills are so much neaer than mine! But then again, I was doing much of my diagrams free-hand using a mouse.
Just one question: Is the 40 ft of wire necessary? I'm assuming that it is needed as the first entry point into your premises isn't very close to the NID. If it isn't needed, it might be a good idea to shorten things. I've been guilty before of using longer wiring than necessary for the simple fact that once you cut the wire shorter, you have less to work with in the future.
By the way, is that first jack/block/splitter after the 40ft of cat3 wire a POTS splitter?
I know Bicephale likes riddles and when people read between the lines so if your Speedtouch 516v6 not allowing you to install firmware 6.1.0.5, you could always explore this option:
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Re: Help/Advice with my Line Statistics pleasereply
Bicephale @ 19th Nov 01:57PM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!Hi Oinktastic,
I have no objection if you feel it's justified for
you to spend money just to send me your ST
so that i can attempt to flash a 'DMT'-friendly
FirmWare into it but i wonder what this is will
achieve in the end! I accepted your situation
a while ago and even if i were willing to ship it
back - which isn't the case - that's simply too
expensive in comparison of what a brand new
TP-Link TD-884x delivered at your door would
cost... Not to mention the fact that 3rd-party
tools do support the TP-Link while tweakability
is excelllent! I'm sorry but the ST5x6 frenzy is
better forgotten, please do yourself a favour:
consider spending your money elsewhere, that
POTS Splitter seems like a reasonable idea, for
example!!!
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Bicephale @ 19th Nov 02:02PM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!I really doubt Oinktastic has a 40' "Bridge Tap" as
it happens to be properly "terminated" according
to his drawing, unless one of us makes an error...
Addendum:No...
What he's got is a 40 feet antenna and he wrote
he has concerns about noise!...
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Oinktastic @ 19th Nov 02:17PM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!Strangely, the wire coming in from the NID comes into the downstairs kitchen, right above the sink (the basement used to be an apartment on its own). This obviously isn't the best place for the modem, so this is why I've got the long line running off to another room.
Maybe I'll be able to hide the modem somewhere in the kitchen, away from the sink, so I can keep that wire as short as possible. Hopefully the POTS splitter will help with this little project.
I think I'll try to sell the ST516 or trade it for a TP-Link that I can actually tweak. I really don't want to spend too much more money on this project, considering I'll be stuck on interleave anyways, unless Bell will transfer me to a nearer remote.
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dslrocker3 @ 19th Nov 02:47PM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!Ointastic, even if you use the most inexpensive shipping method, it's still going to cost you at least $15 to $20 if you pay for shipping both ways to and from Bicephale's location so that the firmware can be installed for you. If you got the modem that I did, it'll cost you about $35 total and you'll have 2 modems. If you really don't want to spend money, just sell the Speedtouch 516 (or keep it as a back up, if it pleases you).
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Oinktastic @ 19th Nov 03:02PM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!Yea I know it's not practical. I'm not 100% serious about it either, but I like the idea of finding out what's different or wrong with my modem and the attempts I've made to flash it with those older firmware versions.
The most helpful thing I think I can get right now is a POTS splitter. It's far above the purchase of a new modem on my 'to do' list. It'll be about $35 once it arrives at my house, so I'll have to use it wisely and then decide whether or not it's worth it to keep buying more equipment.
With the amount of money I'm spending on hardware, I could have just went with a Rogers connection and I wouldn't have to worry about wiring woes. I really regret buying that darn ST516 in the first place.
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dslrocker3 @ 19th Nov 03:09PM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!Are you going for an indoors or outdoors POTS splitter?
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Oinktastic @ 19th Nov 03:11PM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!said by dslrocker3 :
Are you going for an indoors or outdoors POTS splitter?
I guess indoor would be simpler to work with, but an outdoor one could split the signal right inside the NID.
The one Teksavvy offers appears to be able to take the weather, as long as it's inside a case of some sort. I'm hoping I can cram it into the NID somehow.
Edit: And, to actually answer your question, I was looking at an outdoor one (The TSI one) :)
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www.dsldepot.com/item.asp?id=276···tter-nidreply
Bicephale @ 19th Nov 03:52PM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!Pardon me if i sound redundant but this was quite
a long and difficult case so i'm not too sure if you
really tested your connection at the demarcation
point
with everything else removed, actually... It
seems to me that if you have made that test the
way it should be done then what you observed is
not going to improve significantly just because of
a POTS-Splitter, even with a "Bridge Tap"... Right
now it would cost you zero $ to clear the matter.
So, do we have pictures/captures of that test?...
Additionally, do you have any "Before"/"After" logs
related to RF Choking?
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Oinktastic @ 19th Nov 04:09PM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!I started running into trouble with frequent disconnects appearing at night again, and that somehow got in the way of me testing with the choke. At first I attributed the disconnections to one-too-many wraps around the choke, but after removing it, I saw that the disconnections continued to happen.
This post (link below) was a shot of the line at the NID (left picture) compared to the normal location for the modem (right picture).
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Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!There were definitely more errors inside the house, although strangely, the stats were fairly similar. I'm not sure if it was the installation of the NID, the temperature drop since summer or just some mischievous gnomes, but the SNRM even outside is now around 7-8dB, whereas it used to be around 10-11dB. The only way to know for sure is to open up Bhell's half and connect the modem to the bare wire again, I guess.
The disconnects I'm experiencing again are extremely disruptive and make any application, which depends on sustained connectivity, unusable. I get maybe 20+ per night according to my logs. Basically, the line just gets completely unstable.
Edit: Actually, the SNRM has not changed quite as much as I indicated. I forgot I'm comparing night-time SNRM to day-time SNRM, which is a huge difference for me. However, I still never see above about 9.5dB even at the best of times these days. It's still down about 1.5-2dB from several months ago.
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Bicephale @ 19th Nov 05:34PM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!So, if i'm understanding you correctly, that 'DMT'
snapshot made "Outside at demarc (test jack)" is
representative of your situation with nothing but
the SpeedTouch 516 unit connected, everything
else being removed during that test:
Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!, Oinktastic, 2009-Nov-13In the same post we can see a 2nd capture which
is very similar to this one, suggesting that cleaning
up the wiring won't improve your SNR Margin much
further. Honnestly, i must confess your decision to
invest your resources into a POTS-Splitter solution
confuses me under these circumstances: it seems
to me that acquiring tweaking abilities should be a
priority to ensure you no longer loose connectivity!
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Oinktastic @ 19th Nov 05:55PM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!I'm concerned about the increased frequency of errors when the modem is hooked up at its usual position in the house compared to when it is plugged into the test jack at the NID.
I guess I'm not sure if having a higher SNRM will eliminate the errors.
I'm rather hoping that the POTS splitter will help convince the next Bhell tech that I've really tried with the wiring and that it's their turn to do something.
If you don't think that's a good idea, I'm open to suggestions of another modem. My budget for this project can only handle a few more purchases, though :)
Any chance this one would be tweakable?
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canadacomputers.com/index.php?do···=NTW.896or this one maybe...
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www.pcvonline.com/productDetails···dID=6620Those are two stores I can easily get to...
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Bicephale @ 19th Nov 06:45PM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!You could measure over 2.5 million FEC errors in fifteen
minutes when testing at the demarcation point which is
located outdoors, with nothing else but the MoDem on-
line. An other instant snapshot, taken indoors this time,
showed about the same FEC error level. The FEC errors
aren't critical but they reveal noise and in this case i'm
tempted to conclude it comes from outside. RF Choking
evaluation has been inconclusive so far, my concern is
that those repeated disruptions you've tolerated for so
long will only prove that you can't handle this situation,
justifying Bell's workers to simply lower your profile and
hence complicating future experiments a bit further! If
you do feel you must throw more money at the problem
then, yes, i'm in favour of using the money to acquire a
TP-Link TD-884x just like the one bought by DSLRocker:
at least this will give you the means to stay connected
at all times while you try to figure out what to do next.
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Oinktastic @ 19th Nov 09:16PM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!Just to clarify, yes, that was taken at the NID's test jack with everything else disconnected.
The FEC errors are roughly the same as inside, but the CRC and HEC errors are somehow much less frequent outside than they are inside. Do you think that is telling about anything?
I'll complete the choking tests before I buy any more equipment. I might as well deal with what I have first.
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Bicephale @ 19th Nov 10:34PM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!Excellent!
Do you have at least one 24 h log with the number of turns?
In the meantime why not turn off the MoDem if not in use!...
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Oinktastic @ 19th Nov 10:52PM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!said by Bicephale :
Excellent!
Do you have at least one 24 h log with the number of turns?
In the meantime why not turn off the MoDem if not in use!...
I hesitate to turn off the modem because people in this house use it off and on at all hours. The modem's 'home' downstairs makes it a bit of a pain to keep turning it off and on when it's needed, since all of the computers are upstairs. I could do it if you think it's really important.
I would also like to express my concern in trusting any data from my line right now. It's extremely inconsistent, even day to day. For instance, here's a screenshot taken just now of around 45 minutes of uptime with almost no errors... weird...
The number of disconnects have accumulated over the last several days.
  Oct52009Chok···.csv.zip 176,608 bytes
a couple of days with 5 turns | | |
Almost no errors for my line. But still a resync... |
Bicephale @ 20th Nov 09:42AM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!Hi Oinktastic,
That's an interesting log considering that it captured the
change of profile from 4032/512 Kbps to 5056/800 Kbps!
Here's how i'd recommend you clean up the wiring. Can i
ask you where the RF Choke had been installed exactly?
Suggested Phone Wiring for Oinktastic |
Oinktastic @ 20th Nov 10:46AM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!oops I forgot about documenting the switch in profiles. Lucky I sent that file :) I'm a bad stat-collector... :(
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/r0/download/1···s%20.JPG -- your picture. My choke is placed just like your green one in this picture.
Shall I try it elsewhere? I can also pick up a bunch of smaller ones for $2 each. It's unfortunate I can't find any exactly like yours. The ones I have found at the surplus store are quite bulky.
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Bicephale @ 20th Nov 11:24AM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!For all practical purposes you can install as many RF
Chokes on your stacked filters as you wish, like this:
The small cores are ideal for this use. Only a larger
core will be suitable on the WAN side near the unit,
have you tried to determine how many turns would
be required to affect your BitRates?...
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Oinktastic @ 20th Nov 11:59AM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!I've tried 5 and 8 turns. The problem is that I don't trust the slight variances that I see because I don't know whether they're due to the choke, or due to my line acting up.
It changes that much and that often...
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Bicephale @ 20th Nov 12:32PM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!I have noticed how your phone-line was changing,
slight variances isn't what comes to my mind when
i see statistics such as those you just published!...
Can you post records for the 8 turns tests as well?
Also, how come it didn't occur to you that enough
RF Choking may have the same effect as tweaking
by lowering your BitRates sufficiently so you'd stay
connected during an evening crisis?...
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dslrocker3 @ 20th Nov 01:52PM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!Oinktastic, it's too bad that you aren't able to just tell your modem to not accept a downstream signal to noise ratio margin less than let's say, 10.0dB so that resyncs would become less necessary.
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Bicephale @ 20th Nov 04:44PM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!Hummm... I'm afraid 10 dB would be a bit too high!
:p
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dslrocker3 @ 20th Nov 05:06PM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!said by Bicephale :
Hummm... I'm afraid 10 dB would be a bit too high!
:p
I forgot the "less than" part. Originally, my statement would have had the modem refuse to sync at downstream signal to noise ratio margin of excactly 10dB but anything else below or over that amount would be fine. ooops!
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Oinktastic @ 20th Nov 06:29PM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!said by Bicephale :
Can you post records for the 8 turns tests as well?
I'm just trying to locate it. I'm not sure if the 8 turn record was complete, now that I think about it. I think that test may have been interrupted by a power outage actually. I'll keep looking.
said by Bicephale :
Also, how come it didn't occur to you that enough
RF Choking may have the same effect as tweaking
by lowering your BitRates sufficiently so you'd stay
connected during an evening crisis?...
Good question :) I'll try that out.
said by dslrocker3 :
Oinktastic, it's too bad that you aren't able to just tell your modem to not accept a downstream signal to noise ratio margin less than let's say, 10.0dB so that resyncs would become less necessary.
Sadly I can rarely even get 10.0dB during a good day these days. Is the modem capable of doing such a thing? That's what spectral shaping can accomplish, n'est pas?
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Bicephale @ 20th Nov 06:38PM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!Spectral Shaping isn't on the menu but if it were
i do have some hope that a reasonable trade-off
might contribute to improve your DS SNR Margin,
yes...
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dslrocker3 @ 20th Nov 07:14PM:Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!said by Oinktastic :
Sadly I can rarely even get 10.0dB during a good day these days. Is the modem capable of doing such a thing? That's what spectral shaping can accomplish, n'est pas?
Spectreal shaping can disable specific bins/tones. You don't necessarily have to be able to get 10dB at your current sync rate of 5056 Kbps to set the target signal to noise ratio margin to at least 10dB with some usefullness. Doing so would mean that modem refuses to accept the higher connection speed if it the noise margin at the time of syncing falls below the target. Yes, certain modems will allow you to experiment with these settings. This would allow you to control your error rate by connecting at lower sync rates and to minimize losses of sync. Large amount of line errors can actually cause a connection with a higher sync rate to perform slower than another connection with a lower sync rate.
Some modems that can do what I just stated:
-Speedtouch 516v6 (firmwares 6.1.0.5 and below, perhaps I am missing a slightly more recent one but I know that Thomson start messing with things after this version)
-D-Link DSL-2320B, D-Link DSL-2340B
-TP-Link TD-8840, TP-Link TD-8841 (and probably TD-8810, TD-8811, TD-WG920G, as well as others based on Broadcom chipsets)
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