Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users! Page 20

Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users! Page 20
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dslrocker3 @ 5th Nov 07:59AM:
Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!

any plans to play with a 2wire or a gnet? different modems can perform significantly different on a given phone line. Knowing that, finding the best match for you line is really just trial an error as one modem may perform better on one line but a different one better on another. Sometimes, the best modem on your line will even change from day to day, depending on what the current conditions are.
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Bicephale @ 5th Nov 09:42AM:
Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!

It's really puzzling to see his Attenuation level change like that,
too bad it didn't raise the UpStream BitRate to a full 800 Kbps!

dslrocker3 @ 6th Nov 08:24AM:
Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!

I'm trying to think of what could be occuring at niight to cause this increase noise as it does seem like this happens into the late hours.

Are people awake during these hours or is everyone asleep?
Are there changes in the way that radio signals travel at night (different atmospheric conditions possible too)?
Is someone getting a midnight snack and cooking in the middle of the night which causes moisture to get into the wiring?
Street lights on timers?
and this one that I just realized that could be worth examining:
Its getting much colder at night these days and it stands to reason that you woud have your heat turned on. A furnace uses electricity and a motor and it is often near the place of wiring entry into the house. What if there was a link between increased heating system activity and the line noise?
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Oinktastic @ 6th Nov 09:58AM:
Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!

The other night when there was a spike at 4am, no one was up. I checked with everyone and they said they were all sleeping at that time. And, I trust their word on that one :) I'd like to think there are few secrets in my family. Sneaking a pot roast at night definitely isn't one of them.

Sometimes when the clothes dryer kicks in, the lights in the entire house flicker, but I've been checking the statistics and signal after that happens lately and so far, there's no noticeable effect let alone a comparable increase in errors during that interval to what I see at night. I've got the modem on a fairly decent power bar which is supposed to do some sort of power filtering. I'm not saying it's eliminating the problem, but there's been little evidence to me that the power supply could be the culprit.

As for your theory, the new line passes near the gas lines and near the furnace as well, but I would expect to see error spikes all day as the furnace kicked in, if it were a problem. We've got temperatures hovering above zero outside lately, so the furnace is needed the entire day.

Also, this problem was present back when the furnace wasn't needed and we ran a big fan in the house to keep the temperature down. I just mention the fan because I remember unplugging it and watching for errors with and without it plugged in. It's a pretty big motor, so I would suspect it would induce some noise on the house's lines. I wrote it off as an innocent bystander after a while.

Anyway, I've seemingly ruled out certain heating and cooling devices, but there's a possibility that the noise could be entering the house somewhere in the power lines I suppose. I would have to run the modem off of a battery to completely rule the electricity out. I don't really have any plans to purchase a UPS, but I could get/build a DC power source, which could serve me in many other experiments as well.

I'm still leaning towards the AM radio frequency theory, because so far it seems to fit the best. Since Dslrocker mentioned that radio towers increase their output at night, I did some searching and found matching information. This provides an explanation for my decreased performance at those times. However, the missing spectrum which corresponds to local stations could also just be an effect of the SNRM weakening. The radio signals would then appear stronger compared to the weaker DSL signal. Cause, or effect? hmm..

Just gotta keep trying :)
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dslrocker3 @ 6th Nov 10:04AM:
Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!

said by Oinktastic :

Just gotta keep trying :)

It's quite possible that you can't do a thing on your end to get rid of this problem but it would be of course in your bests interests to rule out anything that you can possibly think of. Hopefuly, you can get your line fixed quickly because I think that Bicephale is still having nightmares trying to think of a solution for this line!
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Oinktastic @ 6th Nov 10:18AM:
Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!

said by dslrocker3 :

It's quite possible that you can't do a thing on your end to get rid of this problem but it would be of course in your bests interests to rule out anything that you can possibly think of. Hopefuly, you can get your line fixed quickly because I think that Bicephale is still having nightmares trying to think of a solution for this line!

Uh oh. Bicephale, if you're worrying too much about this... please don't! I'll manage, don't worry about me. I mean, I love your input, but don't lose any sleep over this.

My last step before getting another tech out here will be to install a POTS splitter instead of the microfilters I'm currently using (however they are implemented in a centralised fashion). I'll also try some Cat5 to the modem instead of the flat cable I'm currently using and I'll try to place the modem closer to the NID. Right now, the wire is still rather long, even though it's brand new Cat3 and is specifically run to avoid other wires. I guess I have to figure out how to crimp a cable.

When that's all in place, I'll get another Bell tech out here and hopefully I'll not have to use my 'outdoor' voice with him :D
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dslrocker3 @ 6th Nov 10:23AM:
Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!

said by Oinktastic :

implemented in a centralised fashion). I'll also try some Cat5 to the modem instead of the flat cable I'm currently using and I'll try to place the modem closer to the NID.

I can no longer reproduce my DSL horror show at my place but there was a time that changing the phone wire connected to the modem would yield signficant differences in results. I could not see anything different about the different cables but on some days, some wires would clearly work better than others but on the next day, there would be no difference. (just as one day one modem would be the best for my line but that would also change a few days later).

this was only a one day test but it does show how different phone cables, even when very short length, can affect your connection:
»Can't get good sync? try a different cable, try lots of them
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Bicephale @ 6th Nov 10:41AM:
Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!

Hi Oinktastic,

My only frustration is to not SEE what you're talking about when
i know that you're aware of a few good trouble-shooting tools...

Anyway, today's intervention is meant to shead some light on some
totally different noise propagation mode which you seem to overlook
while mentioning noisy appliances and a cleaner PSU for the MoDem:

ST516 - Strange discovery, Bicephale, 2008-Oct-25

This schematic illustrates my belief that heavier consumption of
electricity translates into heavier conduction which in turn, in a
noise induction loop, will allow a heavier amount of airborne noise
(collected above the streets on top of the poles) to be injected
into the phone-line because of its proximity with electrical lines
at some point. TerTech's whole thread was quite an adventure,
i recommend it as an informative reading for any individual who's
encountering "strange" problems...
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Oinktastic @ 6th Nov 11:00AM:
Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!

Thanks for your link on different cables, Dslrocker. I've been starting to experiment with different cables myself, but I haven't noticed much of a difference yet. My problem is that I don't have many and they're mostly all crappy, flat single-pair cables which came with DSL modems and I don't know how to crimp my own. Yet... I'd love to make a phone wire out of a Cat5 cable. I guess I should pick up a crimping tool and some rj11 connectors.

Bicephale, wouldn't I be seeing more noise during peak electricity hours, if overloaded power lines were the culprit?

Although they may be close to each other somewhere out on the street, once the two lines arrive at my property, they're on opposite corners of the land. The phone line comes from a right-of-way strip along the backyard, while the power lines to my house come in from the street. The phone line also enters the house near the gas main, which is at the opposite end of the house from the electrical/fuse panel. They're never near each other that I can see. If there's somewhere in the neighbourhood where the power lines are close to the telephone line, I'll never be able to do anything about that, short of illegal cutting :p
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Bicephale @ 6th Nov 01:23PM:
Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!

In my schematic illustration the power applications are purely
resistive and the PSU is noise-free but since you garantee us
there's no noise induction site on your property now it's clear
it has to be elsewhere anyway!... If you ask me i'll say in the
poles so i doubt you can fix it if that's effectively the case!!!

wayjac @ 6th Nov 03:48PM:
Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!

said by Oinktastic :

My problem is that I don't have many and they're mostly all crappy, flat single-pair cables which came with DSL modems and I don't know how to crimp my own. Yet... I'd love to make a phone wire out of a Cat5 cable. I guess I should pick up a crimping tool and some rj11 connectors.

Up until recently the phone cable included with the dsl modems were like the gray one below.
[att=1,l]

Now they include the normal flat phone cable like this green one. I don't think you'll notice any difference unless you have a really weak dsl signal
[att=2,l]

dslrocker3 @ 6th Nov 03:55PM:
Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!

said by wayjac :

I don't think you'll notice any difference unless you have a really weak dsl signal

Wayjac, you're probably right about Oinktastic's line not caring too much about the short wire plugged into the modem. Most standard cables are just cheap, flat ones that plug into the device. In my case, I had that really messed up line that did a whole bunch of strange things and changing cables, even among different cheap, flat ones sometimes made large differences, proportion to the total capacity of the line at that time.
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Bicephale @ 9th Nov 11:53AM:
Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!

Hi Oinktastic,

I had a quick look at the data you provided to me. Lets begin
with the easy part! This graphic was generated without doing
any SpreadSheet manipulation other than to remove the lines
before 6 am and those after noon in order to get curves which
got better centered around the event of November 8 at 9:56.

The rest of the work only required graphic editing and this was
possible because of the format used by 'DSL_StatScope' which
differs from that of 'DMT'. Also, i must mention that the scales
were loosely compatible; more number crunching would have
been needed if they had not, otherwise.

ST516 vs 'DSL_RouterStats' (2009-Nov-8)

Bicephale @ 9th Nov 09:21PM:
Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!

Hi again Oinktastic,

Here comes the other part, there's only one complete daily record.

Oinktastic - Siemens SS4200 vs 'DMT' in

Oinktastic @ 11th Nov 07:53PM:
Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!

Thanks Bicephale!

My line just went crazy for the last few days. Either something's changed, or the ST516 is starting to suffer from overheating. It has disconnected 46 times within the last week or so. All of this drama occurs when the line is suffering from errors though.

This is strange... I never used to have tx errors with my ST516, but now it shows quite a few. I am running a different firmware from before. Could this be the cause?

I also noticed something else of interest to me, however it's on a completely different topic. When I do a traceroute, my first hop and several thereafter show up as Teksavvy IPs even though I'm sure Bell's equipment ends up in there somewhere.

How does that work? I never see Bell IPs on my route.

Also, the Teksavvy IP (or could it be Bhell's?): 69.196.136.34 seems to drop quite a few packets for me. My line just went down and now I have a different route (69.196.136.66 and 69.196.136.44 are both fine) which doesn't drop packets, but that hop x.x.x.34 drops about 5-10%+ packets for me. I may end up posting in the direct forum about this.

Current situation

wayjac @ 11th Nov 08:29PM:
Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!

said by Oinktastic :

I also noticed something else of interest to me, however it's on a completely different topic. When I do a traceroute, my first hop and several thereafter show up as Teksavvy IPs even though I'm sure Bell's equipment ends up in there somewhere.
How does that work? I never see Bell IPs on my route.

Your traffic is on bell equipment until it gets to the teksavvy router. You don't see the bell equipment because ip info is at a higher layer
You should be using a bell access concentrator it only shows up in the pppoe log

Here's a image that shows what I'm trying to say
Transport diagram
Keep in mind there may some differences
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Bicephale @ 11th Nov 08:55PM:
Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!

Hi Oinktastic,

Any particular reason for using FirmWare v6.1.9.6 which was the
most 'DMT'-hostile release before the following v6.2 releases?...

I notice the 'DMT' item named "get Data for Graph" isn't selected.

Chances are 'DMT' in "Diagnosis" mode or even 'DSL_StatScope'
won't be supported by this version... If you're up to it, lets just
gather enough data under different FirmWares like v6.1.0.5 and
v7.4.3.2 and then you'll be in a better position to choose one!

Oinktastic @ 13th Nov 01:52AM:
Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!

@Bicephale

The graph doesn't seem to be available with that firmware, unfortunately. I tried, and it gives some error and turns all three boxes black.

I'm also still unable to get fw v6.1.0.5 on there. I tried again... *sigh*. I swear this modem is incapable of running that firmware.
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Oinktastic @ 13th Nov 01:55AM:
Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!

Okay I'll admit it. There still appears to be something wrong with the setup inside the house. I'm not sure if it's the warmer modem-operating temperatures, or the lines themselves, but there are significantly more CRC errors inside, it seems. At least from this short test there were. Everything else is practically the exact same, except those CRC and HEC errors, along with the US SNRM being one point better outside. Those fluctuate 1-2 points both inside and outside. It was just luck that I caught both DS SNRM at the same spot there.

I gave it 15 minutes outside and then let the modem run 15 minutes inside before taking the shot, for a 1-to-1 comparison.

I noticed the modem stayed nice and cool outside, given that the temperature outside is around zero degrees right now.

However, as you can see, there are a substantial amount of errors measurable even outside at the demarc. Does that count for something? :p

Outside at demarc (test jack)
Inside at current setup

Bicephale @ 13th Nov 04:40AM:
Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!

Hi Oinktastic,

Fifteen minutes that's a bit short but you got the idea. Did you
try this FirmWare version? The very last 'DMT'-friendly version,
although plagued by a five minutes "nag" delay as well but with
its other features still available, as you can see...

From the ground up!, Bicephale, 2009-Jan-8

I notice your 'DMT' captures have different "Information" cyan
sections, any hint why?...

Oinktastic @ 13th Nov 11:08AM:
Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!

Hello,

The cyan regions were different because I clicked "refresh" before taking the shot, whereas I had only just connected for the other shot. At least I think that's the difference.

Actually, they may have been taken from different computers. I'll verify when I get home :)

I don't know if I've downloaded that firmware yet (6.1.4.6.0). I'll see if I can find it somewhere. None of the DMT-friendly firmwares that I've been able to get my hands on will load onto the modem yet :(
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Bicephale @ 13th Nov 12:42PM:
Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!

Hi Oinktastic,

I found two versions of the v6.1.0.5 FirmWare:

»mirror.opensourcehub.com/pub/spe···6.1.0.5/

Did you have both handy?...

This is 'ST5x6UK-firmware6146.zip', i inclosed
it in the present post, for your convenience:

FirmWare v6.1.4.6-UK (2143989 Bytes, 2006-Jul-12)

Don't forget to backup your configuration files,
these could save you some time & frustration...

ST5x6UK_firm···6146.zip 2,143,989 bytes

Bicephale @ 13th Nov 12:53PM:
Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!

Hummm...

There's something bizarre about the site with two v6.1.0.5
FirmWare so i guess i should simply publish these two here:

»mirror.opensourcehub.com/pub/spe···0AA6.105
»mirror.opensourcehub.com/pub/spe···.105.bin

:p

ZZQ_AA6105 (···ds) .ZIP 4,187,646 bytes
ZZQ0/ZZQ2 AA6.105 (2 builds)

Bicephale @ 13th Nov 01:10PM:
Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!

Relatively to the configuration backup...

This is how to proceed via FTP access:

Thomson SpeedTouch 5x6v6 FirmWare v6.2.H (v6.2.17.5), Bicephale, 2009-May-10

But instead of "del" (in red) type "get" or
just try one of those links, if you prefer:

'user.ini'

'ftp://dsldevice.lan/dl/user.ini'
'ftp://speedtouch.lan/dl/user.ini'
'ftp://10.0.0.138/dl/user.ini'
'ftp://192.168.1.254/dl/user.ini'

'user.tpl'

'ftp://dsldevice.lan/dl/user.tpl'
'ftp://speedtouch.lan/dl/user.tpl'
'ftp://10.0.0.138/dl/user.tpl'
'ftp://192.168.1.254/dl/user.tpl'

The command to restore is "put"...

Oinktastic @ 13th Nov 02:25PM:
Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!

Thanks for the firmwares. I'll try 'em out soon.

I've noticed that the different cyan windows in DMT appear differently depending on the computer I'm using. Are there different versions of DMT 7.35 that I could be using? I wasn't aware that I had more than 1 version of that software.
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Bicephale @ 13th Nov 05:30PM:
Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!

Hummm... When you try to DownGrade do you try
it on both of these different Windows stations?...

Oinktastic @ 13th Nov 09:02PM:
Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!

said by Bicephale :

Hummm... When you try to DownGrade do you try
it on both of these different Windows stations?...

Yes. I've tried both of those computers (my desktop and my laptop). I've got some more computers I can try using as well though :p
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Bicephale @ 19th Nov 11:20AM:
Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!

So... How's it going?! Any progress?...

Oinktastic @ 19th Nov 12:49PM:
Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!

said by Bicephale :

So... How's it going?! Any progress?...

The modem seems completely immune to firmware 6.1.0.5 and certain other, older firmwares. I don't know why, but I think I've given up on that.. again :) Thompson never e-mailed me back about it, but maybe they don't want to bother with people voiding their warranties :p

Seriously if you want me to send you the modem, I'd be happy to. It's redundant and not even fulfilling its purpose properly.

I think I'm going to order a POTS splitter from Teksavvy and put that inside the NID. I bought some Cat6 wire to use instead of my Cat3 and I'm really hoping that POTS splitter will help lessen my errors. I have no idea why I'm getting errors with my completely new wires and centralized filtering setup.

Actually. I think I may know why... Let me post a diagram and you tell me what you think...
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Oinktastic @ 19th Nov 01:16PM:
Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!

Through the magic of Paint, I bring you my current wiring. It's actually terrible now that I think about it, because I've introduced a 40ft bridge tap inside the house :s... I'll have to think long and hard about why I decided to do that in the first place. I'll mess with the wires tonight and see if I can improve it.

I see my folly now that I drew it out lol

dslrocker3 @ 19th Nov 01:42PM:
Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!

Oikntastic, your MS Paint skills are so much neaer than mine! But then again, I was doing much of my diagrams free-hand using a mouse.

Just one question: Is the 40 ft of wire necessary? I'm assuming that it is needed as the first entry point into your premises isn't very close to the NID. If it isn't needed, it might be a good idea to shorten things. I've been guilty before of using longer wiring than necessary for the simple fact that once you cut the wire shorter, you have less to work with in the future.

By the way, is that first jack/block/splitter after the 40ft of cat3 wire a POTS splitter?

I know Bicephale likes riddles and when people read between the lines so if your Speedtouch 516v6 not allowing you to install firmware 6.1.0.5, you could always explore this option:
»Re: Help/Advice with my Line Statistics please
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Bicephale @ 19th Nov 01:57PM:
Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!

Hi Oinktastic,

I have no objection if you feel it's justified for
you to spend money just to send me your ST
so that i can attempt to flash a 'DMT'-friendly
FirmWare into it but i wonder what this is will
achieve in the end! I accepted your situation
a while ago and even if i were willing to ship it
back - which isn't the case - that's simply too
expensive in comparison of what a brand new
TP-Link TD-884x delivered at your door would
cost... Not to mention the fact that 3rd-party
tools do support the TP-Link while tweakability
is excelllent! I'm sorry but the ST5x6 frenzy is
better forgotten, please do yourself a favour:
consider spending your money elsewhere, that
POTS Splitter seems like a reasonable idea, for
example!!!

Bicephale @ 19th Nov 02:02PM:
Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!

I really doubt Oinktastic has a 40' "Bridge Tap" as
it happens to be properly "terminated" according
to his drawing, unless one of us makes an error...

Addendum:

No...

What he's got is a 40 feet antenna and he wrote
he has concerns about noise!...

Oinktastic @ 19th Nov 02:17PM:
Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!

Strangely, the wire coming in from the NID comes into the downstairs kitchen, right above the sink (the basement used to be an apartment on its own). This obviously isn't the best place for the modem, so this is why I've got the long line running off to another room.

Maybe I'll be able to hide the modem somewhere in the kitchen, away from the sink, so I can keep that wire as short as possible. Hopefully the POTS splitter will help with this little project.

I think I'll try to sell the ST516 or trade it for a TP-Link that I can actually tweak. I really don't want to spend too much more money on this project, considering I'll be stuck on interleave anyways, unless Bell will transfer me to a nearer remote.
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dslrocker3 @ 19th Nov 02:47PM:
Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!

Ointastic, even if you use the most inexpensive shipping method, it's still going to cost you at least $15 to $20 if you pay for shipping both ways to and from Bicephale's location so that the firmware can be installed for you. If you got the modem that I did, it'll cost you about $35 total and you'll have 2 modems. If you really don't want to spend money, just sell the Speedtouch 516 (or keep it as a back up, if it pleases you).
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Oinktastic @ 19th Nov 03:02PM:
Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!

Yea I know it's not practical. I'm not 100% serious about it either, but I like the idea of finding out what's different or wrong with my modem and the attempts I've made to flash it with those older firmware versions.

The most helpful thing I think I can get right now is a POTS splitter. It's far above the purchase of a new modem on my 'to do' list. It'll be about $35 once it arrives at my house, so I'll have to use it wisely and then decide whether or not it's worth it to keep buying more equipment.

With the amount of money I'm spending on hardware, I could have just went with a Rogers connection and I wouldn't have to worry about wiring woes. I really regret buying that darn ST516 in the first place.
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dslrocker3 @ 19th Nov 03:09PM:
Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!

Are you going for an indoors or outdoors POTS splitter?
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Oinktastic @ 19th Nov 03:11PM:
Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!

said by dslrocker3 :

Are you going for an indoors or outdoors POTS splitter?

I guess indoor would be simpler to work with, but an outdoor one could split the signal right inside the NID.

The one Teksavvy offers appears to be able to take the weather, as long as it's inside a case of some sort. I'm hoping I can cram it into the NID somehow.

Edit: And, to actually answer your question, I was looking at an outdoor one (The TSI one) :)
»www.dsldepot.com/item.asp?id=276···tter-nid
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Bicephale @ 19th Nov 03:52PM:
Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!

Pardon me if i sound redundant but this was quite
a long and difficult case so i'm not too sure if you
really tested your connection at the demarcation
point with everything else removed, actually... It
seems to me that if you have made that test the
way it should be done then what you observed is
not going to improve significantly just because of
a POTS-Splitter, even with a "Bridge Tap"... Right
now it would cost you zero $ to clear the matter.

So, do we have pictures/captures of that test?...

Additionally, do you have any "Before"/"After" logs
related to RF Choking?

Oinktastic @ 19th Nov 04:09PM:
Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!

I started running into trouble with frequent disconnects appearing at night again, and that somehow got in the way of me testing with the choke. At first I attributed the disconnections to one-too-many wraps around the choke, but after removing it, I saw that the disconnections continued to happen.

This post (link below) was a shot of the line at the NID (left picture) compared to the normal location for the modem (right picture).
»Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!

There were definitely more errors inside the house, although strangely, the stats were fairly similar. I'm not sure if it was the installation of the NID, the temperature drop since summer or just some mischievous gnomes, but the SNRM even outside is now around 7-8dB, whereas it used to be around 10-11dB. The only way to know for sure is to open up Bhell's half and connect the modem to the bare wire again, I guess.

The disconnects I'm experiencing again are extremely disruptive and make any application, which depends on sustained connectivity, unusable. I get maybe 20+ per night according to my logs. Basically, the line just gets completely unstable.

Edit: Actually, the SNRM has not changed quite as much as I indicated. I forgot I'm comparing night-time SNRM to day-time SNRM, which is a huge difference for me. However, I still never see above about 9.5dB even at the best of times these days. It's still down about 1.5-2dB from several months ago.
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Bicephale @ 19th Nov 05:34PM:
Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!

So, if i'm understanding you correctly, that 'DMT'
snapshot made "Outside at demarc (test jack)" is
representative of your situation with nothing but
the SpeedTouch 516 unit connected, everything
else being removed during that test:

Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!, Oinktastic, 2009-Nov-13

In the same post we can see a 2nd capture which
is very similar to this one, suggesting that cleaning
up the wiring won't improve your SNR Margin much
further. Honnestly, i must confess your decision to
invest your resources into a POTS-Splitter solution
confuses me under these circumstances: it seems
to me that acquiring tweaking abilities should be a
priority to ensure you no longer loose connectivity!

Oinktastic @ 19th Nov 05:55PM:
Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!

I'm concerned about the increased frequency of errors when the modem is hooked up at its usual position in the house compared to when it is plugged into the test jack at the NID.

I guess I'm not sure if having a higher SNRM will eliminate the errors.

I'm rather hoping that the POTS splitter will help convince the next Bhell tech that I've really tried with the wiring and that it's their turn to do something.

If you don't think that's a good idea, I'm open to suggestions of another modem. My budget for this project can only handle a few more purchases, though :)

Any chance this one would be tweakable?
»canadacomputers.com/index.php?do···=NTW.896
or this one maybe...
»www.pcvonline.com/productDetails···dID=6620
Those are two stores I can easily get to...
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Bicephale @ 19th Nov 06:45PM:
Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!

You could measure over 2.5 million FEC errors in fifteen
minutes when testing at the demarcation point which is
located outdoors, with nothing else but the MoDem on-
line. An other instant snapshot, taken indoors this time,
showed about the same FEC error level. The FEC errors
aren't critical but they reveal noise and in this case i'm
tempted to conclude it comes from outside. RF Choking
evaluation has been inconclusive so far, my concern is
that those repeated disruptions you've tolerated for so
long will only prove that you can't handle this situation,
justifying Bell's workers to simply lower your profile and
hence complicating future experiments a bit further! If
you do feel you must throw more money at the problem
then, yes, i'm in favour of using the money to acquire a
TP-Link TD-884x just like the one bought by DSLRocker:
at least this will give you the means to stay connected
at all times while you try to figure out what to do next.

Oinktastic @ 19th Nov 09:16PM:
Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!

Just to clarify, yes, that was taken at the NID's test jack with everything else disconnected.

The FEC errors are roughly the same as inside, but the CRC and HEC errors are somehow much less frequent outside than they are inside. Do you think that is telling about anything?

I'll complete the choking tests before I buy any more equipment. I might as well deal with what I have first.
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Bicephale @ 19th Nov 10:34PM:
Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!

Excellent!

Do you have at least one 24 h log with the number of turns?

In the meantime why not turn off the MoDem if not in use!...
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Oinktastic @ 19th Nov 10:52PM:
Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!

said by Bicephale :

Excellent!

Do you have at least one 24 h log with the number of turns?

In the meantime why not turn off the MoDem if not in use!...

I hesitate to turn off the modem because people in this house use it off and on at all hours. The modem's 'home' downstairs makes it a bit of a pain to keep turning it off and on when it's needed, since all of the computers are upstairs. I could do it if you think it's really important.

I would also like to express my concern in trusting any data from my line right now. It's extremely inconsistent, even day to day. For instance, here's a screenshot taken just now of around 45 minutes of uptime with almost no errors... weird...

The number of disconnects have accumulated over the last several days.

Oct52009Chok···.csv.zip 176,608 bytes a couple of days with 5 turns
Almost no errors for my line. But still a resync...

Bicephale @ 20th Nov 09:42AM:
Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!

Hi Oinktastic,

That's an interesting log considering that it captured the
change of profile from 4032/512 Kbps to 5056/800 Kbps!

Here's how i'd recommend you clean up the wiring. Can i
ask you where the RF Choke had been installed exactly?

Suggested Phone Wiring for Oinktastic

Oinktastic @ 20th Nov 10:46AM:
Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!

oops I forgot about documenting the switch in profiles. Lucky I sent that file :) I'm a bad stat-collector... :(

»/r0/download/1···s%20.JPG -- your picture. My choke is placed just like your green one in this picture.

Shall I try it elsewhere? I can also pick up a bunch of smaller ones for $2 each. It's unfortunate I can't find any exactly like yours. The ones I have found at the surplus store are quite bulky.
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Bicephale @ 20th Nov 11:24AM:
Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!

For all practical purposes you can install as many RF
Chokes on your stacked filters as you wish, like this:

The small cores are ideal for this use. Only a larger
core will be suitable on the WAN side near the unit,
have you tried to determine how many turns would
be required to affect your BitRates?...

Oinktastic @ 20th Nov 11:59AM:
Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!

I've tried 5 and 8 turns. The problem is that I don't trust the slight variances that I see because I don't know whether they're due to the choke, or due to my line acting up.

It changes that much and that often...
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Bicephale @ 20th Nov 12:32PM:
Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!

I have noticed how your phone-line was changing,
slight variances isn't what comes to my mind when
i see statistics such as those you just published!...

Can you post records for the 8 turns tests as well?

Also, how come it didn't occur to you that enough
RF Choking may have the same effect as tweaking
by lowering your BitRates sufficiently so you'd stay
connected during an evening crisis?...

dslrocker3 @ 20th Nov 01:52PM:
Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!

Oinktastic, it's too bad that you aren't able to just tell your modem to not accept a downstream signal to noise ratio margin less than let's say, 10.0dB so that resyncs would become less necessary.
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Bicephale @ 20th Nov 04:44PM:
Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!

Hummm... I'm afraid 10 dB would be a bit too high!

:p
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dslrocker3 @ 20th Nov 05:06PM:
Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!

said by Bicephale :

Hummm... I'm afraid 10 dB would be a bit too high!

:p

I forgot the "less than" part. Originally, my statement would have had the modem refuse to sync at downstream signal to noise ratio margin of excactly 10dB but anything else below or over that amount would be fine. ooops!
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Oinktastic @ 20th Nov 06:29PM:
Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!

said by Bicephale :

Can you post records for the 8 turns tests as well?

I'm just trying to locate it. I'm not sure if the 8 turn record was complete, now that I think about it. I think that test may have been interrupted by a power outage actually. I'll keep looking.

said by Bicephale :

Also, how come it didn't occur to you that enough
RF Choking may have the same effect as tweaking
by lowering your BitRates sufficiently so you'd stay
connected during an evening crisis?...

Good question :) I'll try that out.

said by dslrocker3 :

Oinktastic, it's too bad that you aren't able to just tell your modem to not accept a downstream signal to noise ratio margin less than let's say, 10.0dB so that resyncs would become less necessary.

Sadly I can rarely even get 10.0dB during a good day these days. Is the modem capable of doing such a thing? That's what spectral shaping can accomplish, n'est pas?
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Bicephale @ 20th Nov 06:38PM:
Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!

Spectral Shaping isn't on the menu but if it were
i do have some hope that a reasonable trade-off
might contribute to improve your DS SNR Margin,
yes...

dslrocker3 @ 20th Nov 07:14PM:
Re: Just signed up for DSL. Hello fellow Teksavvy users!

said by Oinktastic :

Sadly I can rarely even get 10.0dB during a good day these days. Is the modem capable of doing such a thing? That's what spectral shaping can accomplish, n'est pas?

Spectreal shaping can disable specific bins/tones. You don't necessarily have to be able to get 10dB at your current sync rate of 5056 Kbps to set the target signal to noise ratio margin to at least 10dB with some usefullness. Doing so would mean that modem refuses to accept the higher connection speed if it the noise margin at the time of syncing falls below the target. Yes, certain modems will allow you to experiment with these settings. This would allow you to control your error rate by connecting at lower sync rates and to minimize losses of sync. Large amount of line errors can actually cause a connection with a higher sync rate to perform slower than another connection with a lower sync rate.

Some modems that can do what I just stated:
-Speedtouch 516v6 (firmwares 6.1.0.5 and below, perhaps I am missing a slightly more recent one but I know that Thomson start messing with things after this version)
-D-Link DSL-2320B, D-Link DSL-2340B
-TP-Link TD-8840, TP-Link TD-8841 (and probably TD-8810, TD-8811, TD-WG920G, as well as others based on Broadcom chipsets)
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