UK's High Court rejects appeal for UFO hacker
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Smokey Bear @ 10th Oct 10:27AM:
UK's High Court rejects appeal for UFO hacker

Computerworld | October 9, 2009

»www.computerworld.com/s/article/···O_hacker

The U.K.'s High Court ruled Friday that a British hacker cannot appeal his extradition to the country's Supreme Court, narrowing the Londoner's legal options.

Gary McKinnon's attorney sought to join the case to an appeal against extradition filed by the attorney for Ian Norris, a British businessman facing charges in the U.S. for alleged involvement in an cartel. The extradition treaty with the U.S. is viewed by many in the U.K. as enabling the U.S. to extradite people more easily from Britain than is possible in the other direction.

McKinnon may take his case to the European Court of Human Rights, according to his attorney, Karen Todner. That court, however, refused in August 2008 to stop his extradition.

The U.K. government has given McKinnon's legal team 14 days to consider its options.

"We are not giving up," Todner said in a statement.

The High Court ruled on July 31 that Gary McKinnon's extradition to the U.S. should proceed despite his diagnosis with Asperger Syndrome, a neurological disorder characterized by obsessive behavior and deficiencies in social interaction.

McKinnon had also asked the court to review a refusal by the Director of Public Prosecutions (DPP) for England and Wales to prosecute him in the U.K.

British prosecutors, however, maintain that the U.S. wants jurisdiction and that most evidence and witnesses are in the U.S. McKinnon was indicted by the U.S. District Court for the Eastern District of Virginia in 2002 for hacking into 97 military and NASA computers between February 2001 and March 2002. He could face up to 60 years in prison.

The U.S. military alleges the hacking resulted in the shutdown of critical networks. McKinnon allegedly left messages such as "U.S. foreign policy is akin to government-sponsored terrorism these days.... I am Solo. I will continue to disrupt at the highest levels." The U.S. government said McKinnon's actions caused US$700,000 in damages.

McKinnon has freely admitted to breaking into the computers, saying he was looking for evidence of UFOs. The computers were accessed using a program called "RemotelyAnywhere," an access tool used by administrators to fix computers remotely. McKinnon has said the military computers were poorly secured, often using default passwords that were easy to guess.

His hacking career ended after he mistakenly took over a computer during U.S. working hours. Someone noticed a computer's cursor moving on its own, and the Internet connection was shut down. Shortly thereafter, U.K. police arrested him at his north London home.
:p :D
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SUMware @ 10th Oct 01:03PM:
Re: UK's High Court rejects appeal for UFO hacker

While not condoning his actions I do sympathize with the guy. He's obviously being used as a warning to other would be 'hackers/investigators'.

McKinnon's last hope of rescue!
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Smokey Bear @ 10th Oct 01:07PM:
Re: UK's High Court rejects appeal for UFO hacker

said by SUMware :

He's obviously being used as a warning to other would be 'hackers/investigators'.
I prefer to say: a warning to other UFO investigators. :D
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SUMware @ 10th Oct 01:09PM:
Re: UK's High Court rejects appeal for UFO hacker

I'll go along with that! :)
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JohnInSJ @ 10th Oct 01:09PM:
Re: UK's High Court rejects appeal for UFO hacker

I've seen the "it was easy to break in, so I didn't really do anything wrong" defense before.

Seriously? So if I use $20 locks on my house and you break in, you didn't do anything wrong because I should have used better locks?

Yeah. Ok.

I say we probe him.
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PrntRhd @ 10th Oct 03:15PM:
Re: UK's High Court rejects appeal for UFO hacker

It wasn't me, it was my "syndrome".
:uhh:
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Rebirth @ 10th Oct 03:35PM:
Re: UK's High Court rejects appeal for UFO hacker

Stupid court, and even more stupid NASA. If NASA etc can't properly secure ALL their computers with all the tax $ resources at their disposal, then a lot of heads need to roll, and soon.

$700,000 in damages, oh yeah sure !

They should be thanking him for alerting them to how pathetic their INsecurity was. If it wasn't for him, just think what could have happended if some REAL bad people got in. Plenty of them are trying to get in to all manner of USA sites Every day. And not just script kiddies either, but nations such as the Chinese.

Shoot the messenger hey, brilliant !

»www.theregister.co.uk/2003/03/21···_breach/
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Smokey Bear @ 10th Oct 04:41PM:
Re: UK's High Court rejects appeal for UFO hacker

said by Rebirth :

Stupid court, and even more stupid NASA. If NASA etc can't properly secure ALL their computers with all the tax $ resources at their disposal, then a lot of heads need to roll, and soon.

Shoot the messenger hey, brilliant !
Breaking into computers with the elucidation of doing this for reason of UFO research is stupid too. Of course there are exceptions, and we don't call hacking UFO investigators 'stupid': e.g. if it regard a 'syndrome' (txs PrntRhd for this important hint!). Regarding the syndrome phenomenon, we replace 'stupid' by 'totally nuts'. :uhh:
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PrntRhd @ 10th Oct 10:10PM:
Re: UK's High Court rejects appeal for UFO hacker

If he wants to use claims of a form of autism as an excuse, good luck on that.
The way diminished capacity works is a legal finding by a judge or jury of whether the individual was capable of knowing right from wrong. The fact this individual posted political messages (and not insane rambling) on the affected PCs would likely lead a jury to believe he was sane enough to create and post the stuff, his motive being the deliberate disruption of those 97 government computer systems, and therefore sane enough to be held criminally responsible for his behavior.
If he fails to stop extradition he is likely to face that legal finding and will likely be held responsible.
I doubt he would face 60 years but he will do jail time if he is extradited and convicted.
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nonymous @ 11th Oct 12:36AM:
Re: UK's High Court rejects appeal for UFO hacker

One sided political postings can be thought of as insane. Think we have a few one sided people here that get made fun of. So yes that can be a symptom of a problem. Also, if UFOs and aliens do not exist he has a tinfoil hat. If they do then the government needs to prove that so as to prove he is hacking legit things not tinfoil hat.

So either his political postings make no sense and he is hacking into UFOs that do not exist or his postings make sense and UFOs exist.
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SUMware @ 13th Oct 02:03PM:
Re: UK's High Court rejects appeal for UFO hacker

From Reuters
Oct 13, 2009 -
quote:
History Channel Airs Acclaimed UFO Documentary 'I Know What I Saw,' Directed By James Fox, On October 19

Film Exposes Covert U.S. Investigation of Worldwide UFO Cases

Computer hacker Gary McKinnon could be facing 70 years in prison for hacking into government UFO files. He should have just waited until Monday, October 19th @ 9 p.m. ET/PT when investigative filmmaker James Fox (of FCZ Media) provides answers on the UFO phenomenon in his feature-length documentary I Know What I Saw airing exclusively on The History Channel. Fox assembled the most credible UFO witnesses from around the world to testify at The National Press Club in Washington D.C. For the first time, Air Force Generals, astronauts, military and commercial pilots, and government and FAA officials from seven countries speak out on national television, providing shocking evidence that UFOs are real.

Narrated by James Fox, I Know What I Saw traces sightings and reports worldwide. Testimony includes high-ranking military personnel, pilots and astronauts from France, England, Belgium, Chile, Peru, Iran and the United States who all call on the U.S. Government to re-open its investigation into UFOs - which the Air Force shut down over 30 years ago.

In I Know What I Saw, filmmaker James Fox uncovers new details of a UFO landing at an American Air Force base in the UK. U.S. Air Force Col. Charles Halt recently admitted, "In December 1980 I was involved in a multi night incident where a UFO landed, was touched, photographed and departed rapidly. Two nights later, five or more intelligently controlled objects, assumed to be extraterrestrial, returned to the area and were witnessed by numerous people." Air Force Sergeant, James Penniston, copied strange markings from the landed UFO which filmmaker James Fox has analyzed by an expert symbologist for the very first time. The results are startling.

Senator John McCain and Arizona Governor Fife Symington reveal their efforts to investigate the infamous "Phoenix lights" sighting. "I believe that our government should take an active role in investigating this very real phenomenon," said Symington, who was himself a witness to the reported mile wide craft seen by thousands in Arizona while he was governor.

For more information about James Fox and I Know What I Saw go to www.iknowwhatisawthemovie.com

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JohnInSJ @ 13th Oct 03:33PM:
Re: UK's High Court rejects appeal for UFO hacker

said by nonymous :

So either his political postings make no sense and he is hacking into UFOs that do not exist or his postings make sense and UFOs exist.
Oh Crap, he's using the Chewbacca defense!
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JohnInSJ @ 13th Oct 03:35PM:
Re: UK's High Court rejects appeal for UFO hacker

said by SUMware :

Fox assembled the most credible UFO witnesses from around the world to testify at The National Press Club in Washington D.C. For the first time, Air Force Generals, astronauts, military and commercial pilots, and government and FAA officials from seven countries speak out on national television, providing shocking evidence that UFOs are real.
If UFOs were real, they would not seek out nutjobs to make contact with.

You'll know the day the green men find us, just like every other human alive on the planet on that day.

It will be fairly obvious. To everyone.

But we digress...
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Link Logger @ 14th Oct 03:44PM:
Re: UK's High Court rejects appeal for UFO hacker

If the 'looking for evidence of UFOs' defense works I going to hack me a couple of big banks in order to see if any aliens have bank accounts anywhere ;)

quote:
Asperger Syndrome, a neurological disorder characterized by obsessive behavior and deficiencies in social interaction.


Sounds like most security dudes / hackers I know and a lot of programmers and I'll bet sometimes my wife would suggest I have it as well :)

Blake
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SUMware @ 14th Oct 06:35PM:
Re: UK's High Court rejects appeal for UFO hacker

Famous People with Aspergers Syndrome
List of people on the autism spectrum
Famous People with Aspergers Syndrome

What Is Asperger Syndrome?
quote:
At this time there is a great deal of debate as to exactly where AS fits. It is presently described as an autism spectrum disorder and Uta Frith, in her book AUTISM AND ASPERGER'S SYNDROME, described AS individuals as "having a dash of Autism". Some professionals feel that AS is the same as High Functioning Autism, while others feel that it is better described as a Nonverbal Learning Disability. AS shares many of the characteristics of PDD-NOS (Pervasive Developmental Disorder; Not otherwise specified), HFA, and NLD and because it was virtually unknown until a few years ago, many individuals either received an incorrect diagnosis or remained undiagnosed. For example, it is not at all uncommon for a child who was initially diagnosed with ADD or ADHD be re-diagnosed with AS. In addition, some individuals who were originally diagnosed with HFA or PDD-NOS are now being given the AS diagnosis and many individuals have a dual diagnosis of Asperger Syndrome and High Functioning Autism.

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Smokey Bear @ 17th Oct 01:26AM:
Re: UK's High Court rejects appeal for UFO hacker

said by Link Logger :

If the 'looking for evidence of UFOs' defense works I going to hack me a couple of big banks in order to see if any aliens have bank accounts anywhere ;)

quote:
Asperger Syndrome, a neurological disorder characterized by obsessive behavior and deficiencies in social interaction.


Sounds like most security dudes / hackers I know and a lot of programmers and I'll bet sometimes my wife would suggest I have it as well :)
Well Blake, because it seem your wife is really smart and you had also the courage for outing yourself I will do the same: yes, I have the syndrome too. Anyway, many people are telling me I am totally nuts and I have that syndrome. :o

Because hacker Gary McKinnon have the same syndrome like me, I understand his motivation to hack and his subsequent defense: for reason of the syndrome he could't resist the incredible strong persistence to hack, I assume he really suffer his entire miserable life. :(
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SUMware @ 19th Oct 11:43PM:
Re: UK's High Court rejects appeal for UFO hacker

From The Daily Mail
20th October 2009 -
said by James Slack :
Change Gary McKinnon extradition law, Boris Johnson urges Lords

Boris Johnson has urged peers to vote today to change the law to prevent a repeat of the 'blunt and brutal' extradition of Gary McKinnon.

Tories and LibDems in the Lords are expected to support the introduction of an amendment which would prevent those who commit crimes in Britain being sent overseas to face trial.

Asperger's sufferer Gary, 43, is being sent to the U.S. under the controversial 2003 Extradition Act.

He faces 60 years in jail for hacking into computers from the bedroom of his North London flat to search for evidence of the existence of aliens.

London mayor Mr Johnson, who wrote to all peers last night, said: 'It is scandalous that under the current laws the UK has so little influence over extradition.

'There are a number of serious flaws in the Extradition Act in its current form. As we have seen with the case of Gary McKinnon it can be a blunt and brutal law. Gary's appalling situation is just one high profile case we are aware of, but a number of other UK citizens are also in similar positions and are currently awaiting their fate.

'I urge the peers to take the wellbeing of the people of this country seriously and use this opportunity to change this cruel law.'

The introduction of the amendment has been delayed since 2006, when the Government approved the law but said it could only be enacted after a new vote. It has since frustrated attempts to hold such votes.

Gary is being backed by a Daily Mail campaign. LibDem home affairs spokesman Chris Huhne said yesterday: 'These amendments should have been enacted by the Government years ago but their craven attitude towards the United States has got in the way.

'It is only fair that people are tried here for crimes committed here unless a judge rules it is in the best interests of justice to extradite them.'

On Saturday Home Secretary Alan Johnson halted Gary's extradition process to examine new medical evidence about his psychiatric health. Experts have warned he could commit suicide.

The Government will oppose today's vote. A Home Office spokesman said the amendment 'would place the UK in breach of its international treaty obligations'.

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Link Logger @ 20th Oct 12:54AM:
Re: UK's High Court rejects appeal for UFO hacker

Quickly moving to the top of my list of 'Countries to Hack From'. I would consider the UK to have some reasonable amenities that make it appealing (as compared to some backwards 'hackastan' type country) and now they won't extradite me for whacking the world's favorite target country. Anyone know any relocation companies in the UK (I'd like something on the ocean if possible)?

Seriously what kind of whackos do they have running the show over there. I guess they remember how the courts went after Bill Gates as is he also thought to have Asperger syndrome, and have decided that no UK citizen should be subject to the same 'abuse', more likely they have become a pack of sniveling wimps over there. Ship the nutcake over and lets find out in a public court what the real truth is and not just the 'truth' in his whack outed world.

Blake
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Vendor: Author of Link Logger which is a traffic analysis and firewall logging tool

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james @ 20th Oct 02:05AM:
Re: UK's High Court rejects appeal for UFO hacker

said by Smokey Bear :

The computers were accessed using a program called "RemotelyAnywhere," an access tool used by administrators to fix computers remotely. McKinnon has said the military computers were poorly secured, often using default passwords that were easy to guess.
Lets look at what they did
The kid: guessed some passwords and poked around in what should have been a secure network. Left some funny messages and was basically being an idiot.
He should be punished, but it should be at most a a few months in a jail and no access to computers for a while. The U.S. government should have let the UK punish him. It was all basically a HUGE waste of money and time that could have been used to extradite a pedophile from some other country or something like that.

The administrators: Engaged in negligent actions that made the country susceptible to espionnage. I guarantee the Chinese, Iranians and Russians have long been exploiting these security holes.
They should be puished far more harshly. If it were war time (a real war) a responsible commander would have them shot. Lives were put at risk because of their laziness.
Since it's not war time, their jobs and clearances should be taken away, they should be banned from ever obtaining a security clearance again, and they should be ashamed of themselves.
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said by Metatron2008 :

But people who download thousands of movies and games.... Yes, they are as bad as any murderer

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james @ 20th Oct 02:06AM:
Re: UK's High Court rejects appeal for UFO hacker

said by PrntRhd :

If he wants to use claims of a form of autism as an excuse, good luck on that.
I hear the administrators of those computer systems are waiting to see how it works out for him so they can try the same excuse when they lose their security clearances.
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said by Metatron2008 :

But people who download thousands of movies and games.... Yes, they are as bad as any murderer

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PrntRhd @ 20th Oct 02:20AM:
Re: UK's High Court rejects appeal for UFO hacker

I think that was my point.
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MGD @ 20th Oct 03:25AM:
Re: UK's High Court rejects appeal for UFO hacker

said by Link Logger :

Quickly moving to the top of my list of 'Countries to Hack From'. I would consider the UK to have some reasonable amenities that make it appealing (as compared to some backwards 'hackastan' type country) and now they won't extradite me for whacking the world's favorite target country. Anyone know any relocation companies in the UK (I'd like something on the ocean if possible)?
..

LOL !!

I do not believe it is a question of him getting away with it. The extradition process has taken so long that McKinnion has become a martyr in the UK media. At the very least he would be tried in the UK.

For reference purposes:

quote:
No Prison Time for Romanian NASA and U.S Navy Hacker

11th of November 2008

He was sentenced to 16 months of suspended prison, and a fine of almost $240,000.

Victor Faur from Arad, Romania, caught the international headlines in 2006, when he was indicted in the U.S. for one count of conspiracy and nine of computer intrusion, for obtaining unauthorized access to systems belonging to several government institutions. After a trial that lasted almost a year, a local Romanian court sentenced him to 16 months in prison, and requested that he pay $240,000 in restitution to the affected parties.

According to the evidence, Mr. Faur, going by the online nickname of SirVic, was the leader of a group of hackers known as the WhiteHat Team, who used the Undernet IRC network to communicate. From November 2005 to September 2006, he personally hacked into systems belonging to the U.S. Navy, NASA and the Department of Energy, from his home in Romania, thus transforming one of the NASA computers into an online chat server.

The U.S. authorities claimed that the damages caused amounted to $1.5 million, but Faur argued in his defense that he only hacked into those systems in order to prove that they were vulnerable, and that he did not cause any damage to them. According to him, he only targeted those servers because their group held regular contests to determine who was more skilled, and could hack into the most secure systems. In addition, he said that the accounts used to access the NASA servers had been provided to him by another Romanian hacker from Constanta, whom he only knew online.

The hacker could not be extradited because the agreement signed between Romania and the U.S. dated back to 1921, and did not include the new IT-related offenses. As a result, the U.S. authorities accepted him to be judged in Romania. According to Romanian law, if he had been found guilty on all accounts, Faur would have risked a maximum sentence of 12 years in prison, compared to the 54 years of prison time he might have received if judged in the U.S.

Even so, one of the hacker's defense attorneys, Mircea Borza, said that they would appeal to a higher court because “we did not expect this sentence.” He claims that Faur was only guilty of unauthorized access to the systems, which he also admitted, but not of deleting, intercepting or altering any data. ”We still believe that our defense was strong and proved that Victor Faur did not commit those offenses. [...] We also think that the sum of money which is to be paid is very high,” the lawyer told a local paper.


»news.softpedia.com/news/No-Priso···60.shtml

Dumbest hacker of the year award goes to:

quote:
20th March 2009

Romanian police arrest Pentagon hack suspect.

Romanian police have arrested a hacker suspected of breaking into Pentagon systems and planting malware.

Eduard Lucian Mandru, 23, a business studies student from Iasi, Romania, is suspected of breaking into US Department of Defense systems in 2006. A criminal hacker nicknamed "Wolfenstein" accessed sensitive systems at that time, using compromised servers located in Japan in a bid to cover his tracks.

The cracker infected an unspecified number of systems with an unidentified information-stealing trojan before deleting access logs, Softpedia reports. US authorities say that damages in sorting out the resulting mess came to over $35,000.

One of the few leads investigators had to go on was a Yahoo email address - wolfenstein_ingrid@yahoo.com - linked to the attack. Mandru recently posted his CV on job-seeking websites giving this Yahoo address as his email contact, a blunder that reportedly put investigators on his trail. Police raided Mandru's home, seized computer equipment and took him into custody on Wednesday.

If found guilty of computer hacking offences, Mandru faces a prison term of between three and 12 years.

Victor Faur, AKA SirVic, another Romanian hacker alleged to have broken into US military systems, received a suspended prison sentence of 16 months. At the time of his arrest, the US-Romania extradition agreement then in force omitted hacking offences. A revamped extradition treaty does include hacking offences, making Mandru a possible candidate for extradition.

It's unclear if US authorities will take this option.

Although the apparent blunder that put investigators onto Mandru trail appears dumb, cybercrooks often make such mistakes.

"Hackers who deface police and military websites often leave email addresses," explained Graham Cluley, senior technology consultant at Sophos. Jeffrey Lee Parson, convicted author of a variant of the infamous Blaster worm, coded the malware to phone home for updates from a website he owned. He also wrote his online nickname (teekid) into the fabric of Blaster-B, Cluley added.


»www.theregister.co.uk/2009/03/20···_cuffed/

MGD
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Link Logger @ 20th Oct 04:17AM:
Re: UK's High Court rejects appeal for UFO hacker

Romania was never very high up on my list of 'Countries to Hack From' as the amenities aren't that nice and while they don't have an extradition policy with the US I think those hacker wish there was as I'd rather be rotting in a US prison then one in Romania.

said by MGD :

LOL !!

I do not believe it is a question of him getting away with it. The extradition process has taken so long that McKinnion has become a martyr in the UK media. At the very least he would be tried in the UK.
Gary McKinnon has gone way past being a martyr and is approaching Pairs Hilton status even with Rock Stars doing benefit songs for his cause:

»www.youtube.com/watch?v=5X0VAGts32Y


I loved Pink Floyd and Nick Gilmour, but I think he might have flipped his lid over this.

I imagine the paparazzi photos of Gary McKinnon getting out of a limo without any underwear can't be far off. Perhaps we should start coming up with names for Gary's Reality Show (there is an oxymoron).

Blake
--
Vendor: Author of Link Logger which is a traffic analysis and firewall logging tool

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SUMware @ 20th Oct 10:00AM:
Re: UK's High Court rejects appeal for UFO hacker

said by Link Logger :

Gary McKinnon has gone way past being a martyr and is approaching Pairs Hilton status

I imagine the paparazzi photos of Gary McKinnon getting out of a limo without any underwear can't be far off.
Gary McKinnon = Pairs Hilton = McKinnon not wearing underwear? You have an 'interesting world view'.
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james @ 24th Oct 06:34PM:
Re: UK's High Court rejects appeal for UFO hacker

said by PrntRhd :

I think that was my point.
No, you said nothing about the administrators trying to use the same excuse. I highly doubt that was your point anyways because it's absurd to think that they would by doing such a thing.
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said by Metatron2008 :

But people who download thousands of movies and games.... Yes, they are as bad as any murderer

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PrntRhd @ 24th Oct 07:23PM:
Re: UK's High Court rejects appeal for UFO hacker

Sure, and it is completely absurd for the UK hacker to try use that as an excuse. Admins have to be held responsible but hackers don't not have to be held responsible at all, they just have a get out of jail excuse? Nonsense, we all have responsibilities unless we are insane.
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Smokey Bear @ 24th Oct 10:19PM:
Re: UK's High Court rejects appeal for UFO hacker

said by PrntRhd :

we all have responsibilities unless we are insane.
The hacker was probably indeed insane.. :uhh:
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PrntRhd @ 25th Oct 12:21AM:
Re: UK's High Court rejects appeal for UFO hacker

Perhaps, but that is up to a judge and/or jury to decide in our legal system as I posted quite a while back..
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SUMware @ 25th Oct 12:43AM:
Re: UK's High Court rejects appeal for UFO hacker

An interesting and thought provoking article with professional background information:

The Geek Defense -Do criminals with Asperger's syndrome deserve special treatment?
quote:
But the drugs and therapy sessions that are prescribed to adults with psychiatric problems aren't likely to help people with a condition like Asperger's, which develops in childhood and never goes away. Andy Thomson, a psychiatrist at the University of Virginia Institute of Law, Psychiatry, and Public Policy, suggests punishing Asperger's criminals with long, supervised probation periods instead.

That's largely how the courts have dealt with autism, which first showed up in criminal cases in the 1950s. Still, the legal system isn't always consistent in its treatment of criminals with developmental disabilities, and the sentences handed down to autistic defendants can vary widely depending on the court. Asperger's may prove even more challenging than autism, because it lacks the well-defined intellectual deficits that make the latter relatively easy to diagnose. How will a judge determine whether a given diagnosis of Asperger's is scientifically valid, let alone decide how the disorder relates to a particular crime? These are two of many questions that the criminal justice system faces as the number of children and adults being diagnosed with Asperger's continues to rise.

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SUMware @ 25th Oct 12:50AM:
Re: UK's High Court rejects appeal for UFO hacker

said by Smokey Bear :

said by PrntRhd :

we all have responsibilities unless we are insane.
The hacker was probably indeed insane.. :uhh:
No, if he does in fact have Asperger's then, as has been stated, he is suffering from a form of autism. Mental illness is not necessarily insanity, although it is sometimes fodder for ridicule.
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PrntRhd @ 25th Oct 01:16AM:
Re: UK's High Court rejects appeal for UFO hacker

said by SUMware :

An interesting and thought provoking article with professional background information:

The Geek Defense -Do criminals with Asperger's syndrome deserve special treatment?
quote:
But the drugs and therapy sessions that are prescribed to adults with psychiatric problems aren't likely to help people with a condition like Asperger's, which develops in childhood and never goes away. Andy Thomson, a psychiatrist at the University of Virginia Institute of Law, Psychiatry, and Public Policy, suggests punishing Asperger's criminals with long, supervised probation periods instead.

That's largely how the courts have dealt with autism, which first showed up in criminal cases in the 1950s. Still, the legal system isn't always consistent in its treatment of criminals with developmental disabilities, and the sentences handed down to autistic defendants can vary widely depending on the court. Asperger's may prove even more challenging than autism, because it lacks the well-defined intellectual deficits that make the latter relatively easy to diagnose. How will a judge determine whether a given diagnosis of Asperger's is scientifically valid, let alone decide how the disorder relates to a particular crime? These are two of many questions that the criminal justice system faces as the number of children and adults being diagnosed with Asperger's continues to rise.

A very good post, the UK legal system is also having widely varying court sentences for criminals with Asberger's syndrome, ranging from long supervised probation to life in prison. It is not only the USA system with questions of how to deal with criminal behavior.
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Link Logger @ 25th Oct 02:30AM:
Re: UK's High Court rejects appeal for UFO hacker

said by SUMware :

although it is sometimes fodder for ridicule.
And now perhaps an indicator of an uncontrollable urge/tendency to commit illegal acts, if he is claiming that his Asperger condition was responsible for his actions. Wow this could really 'open' some doors for me as given how difficult it is to diagnose Aspergers I'm pretty sure I could find a doctor or two somewhere would who testify that I have it (or you have it as well).

I understand mental illness and likely better then most people, the impact that it has on people and their families, that it isn't a good thing and often not something people ask for or want or can control, however it certainly can't enable people to do whatever without consequence.

Blake
--
Vendor: Author of Link Logger which is a traffic analysis and firewall logging tool

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SUMware @ 25th Oct 08:46AM:
Re: UK's High Court rejects appeal for UFO hacker

said by Link Logger :

said by SUMware :

although it is sometimes fodder for ridicule.
And now perhaps an indicator of an uncontrollable urge/tendency to commit illegal acts, if he is claiming that his Asperger condition was responsible for his actions. Wow this could really 'open' some doors for me as given how difficult it is to diagnose Aspergers I'm pretty sure I could find a doctor or two somewhere would who testify that I have it (or you have it as well).
There you go again. Speak for yourself. Thanks for the misguided dissertation LL, MD, Psy.D. Tell you what, if you so desperately want to have Asperger's, abracadabra & shazam, you now have Aspererger's. Congratulations.

May I suggest that you visit real psychiatrists and real medical personnel who possess real knowledge and real experience and real expertise and real diagnostic technique with real disease and real illness including Asperger's at the real Mayo Clinic for final diagnosis.

To refresh your knowledge base before visiting:
1. Asperger syndrome fact sheet, National Institute of Neurological Disorders and Stroke, »www.ninds.nih.gov/disorders/aspe···rger.htm. Accessed Sept. 4, 2008.
2. Toth K, et al. Asperger's syndrome: diagnosis and treatment. American Journal of Psychiatry. 2008 Aug;165(8):958-63.
3. Khouzam HR, et al. Asperger's disorder: A review of its diagnosis and treatment. Comprehensive Psychiatry. 2004 May-Jun;45(3):184-91

said by Link Logger :

I understand mental illness and likely better then most people, the impact that it has on people and their families, that it isn't a good thing and often not something people ask for or want or can control, however it certainly can't enable people to do whatever without consequence.
Guess that you didn't read the Slate article above. Personal actions do have consequences and individuals are held responsible for them (depending on judge & jury, etc.). What/who/why are you disagreeing with?
reply
Link Logger @ 25th Oct 10:25PM:
Re: UK's High Court rejects appeal for UFO hacker

The question is simply, is he or is he not using Asperger's as a defense?

Ultimately he needs to appear in court so that a court can determine if Asperger's is a valid defense and if so to what extent. While I might be spouting 'misguided dissertations', he can't be his own judge and jury in this matter. If thinks he has a case then the courts will agree with him, otherwise.....

Blake
--
Vendor: Author of Link Logger which is a traffic analysis and firewall logging tool

reply
Link Logger @ 26th Oct 01:56AM:
Re: UK's High Court rejects appeal for UFO hacker

Claim - Can't handle the stress that extradition proceedings have placed on him.

Debunk - If the self-confessed hacker had accepted voluntary extradition when he offered it back in 2003 then he would have “been out of jail four years ago” instead of facing extradition now.

The issue is extradition is taking a long time only because he is fighting it and so blaming the other side for this is rather goofy, but thus far his fight has exercised all the legal channels but he is running out of options.

»www.theregister.co.uk/2009/10/21···eaction/

Based on the number of interviews etc he has been giving I'm not really sure I'm buying his 'social pressure thing' (he lists some of them in the interview below, so apparently he doesn't mind meeting people as certainly he as given a lot of interviews and he complains that he hasn't had enough US interviews):

»www.youtube.com/watch?v=_fNsah-0vpY


Note the interviewer's description of the interview:
quote:
We sat in the back of his local pub, in a garden in the late afternoon. Gary is lucid, eloquent and extremely intelligent. He made it clear that the real reason the Americans want to extradite him is not for any damage he has done, for in fact there wasn't any. They are pursuing him is because of what he might have seen. Specifically, documents revealing a list of "Non-terrestrial officers" and off-world cargo operations somewhere out in space, hinting at the real possibility of military activities taking place in relation to other planets.


His complaint is that he thinks the charges are extreme for what he did, but that isn't his decision to make is it? Perhaps during the investigation of his actions they found out he got into a whack of machines, but apparently we have to take his word that he didn't cause any damage (he did install software etc, on these systems, but since Gary is a 'morally correct' hacker it must be OK). Gary you apparently didn't get the idea of a deal, you are not really in a position to be determining what you get as its your actions that they are charging for, and so its a matter of how much effort they are willing to put into it or not and what sort of break they are willing to offer.

When someone noticed he was on a system he thought quickly on his feet as he 'didn't want to get caught' and claimed that he was an employee doing security work for the company, so he knew what he was doing was illegal and yet he continued to keep hacking (every night for almost 2 years).

Space Marines, where do I sign up? Does Gary have a problem with reality, no doubt, but does it exempt him from appearing in a US court, not in my opinion as I haven't seen a valid reason yet. Heck if he comes to the US, I'm pretty sure that Tom Cruise will invite him over for diner.

He thinks his problem is that he admitted to his crime without first getting a lawyer, new to the game is he?

He doesn't like that the extradition doesn't require evidence (see »en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extradition_Act_2003)

quote:
Among other provisions Part 2 of the Act: Extradition to category 2 territories (non-European Arrest warrant territories) has caused some controversy.

The problem arises at the Extradition Hearing stage where among other considerations the District Judge must: Be satisfied that the request contains admissible evidence of the offence sufficient to establish a prima facie case against the person. This requirement does not apply in respect of extradition requests from the USA, Canada, Australia and New Zealand.

The controversy stemmed from the absence of any reciprocal arrangement in respect of the United States. Therefore there was no requirement on the US to provide prima facie evidence when requesting the extradition of UK residents, both foreign nationals and UK citizens, but as provided by the UK Act it maintained the requirement for the UK to provide such evidence to the US in the reverse situation. This was the subject of concern prior to the passing of the legislation, and a cause of controversy when it was applied.

There is also concern at the loss of entitlement of UK citizens to legal aid for maintaining an adequate defence to criminal charges once they are extradited to US jurisdiction where costs are largely met by the defendant's private means. This has been a cause of controversy in cases where it has been perceived that the UK has suitable legislation for prosecuting offences domestically.
.

Gary admits in this interview that be blabbed without a lawyer as all the evidence was on his computer anyways, given the British Police applied for and executed his arrest and warrant to search his house apparently they have ample evidence. The issue is that the US will not extradite US citizens to the UK, but in 2006 the US Senate unanimously ratified the treaty so the argument today would be?

Or

»www.youtube.com/watch?v=B4PkNPCEnJM


Did he even mention Asperger's in this interview? Again he states his problem is the extremity of the sentence (ie he thinks he is going to be turned into the anti-hacking poster boy). He thought he was 'morally correct' to be looking for UFO's, so the chargers are over the top for his 'crime'.

or

»www.youtube.com/watch?v=HQhF6lAp···=related


(check how comfortable he looks while talking to the press in front of the building). Again hacking in the cause of 'free energy' so he is morally correct to do this hacking, perhaps better to let a judge make that call? Again any mention of Asperger's, nope? His intention was to maintain a 'quiet presents', wow thats something that no hacker has attempted (Max you had the wrong defense team the first time you got nailed you should have hired Gary's defense team). Again his concern is becoming a poster boy.

His mom claims Gary's Asperger's condition is to blame for his actions:

»www.youtube.com/watch?v=mKU7nPX0···=related


As to what he did and what punishment is warranted, that is for a court to determine. Again she claims the issue is that he is going to be made a poster boy and it took the prosecution team to long to collect evidence, like crime has an expiry date.

One thing bothers me however about how he claimed he had to turn the image down to 4 bit color (ie 16 colors) to see it (like he would see 'seams' or 'rivets' crunching down the colors etc, had a 'feeling of it not being man made'), now given he was using remote desktop software, how does the image resolution etc impact the performance of the remote desktop software as it pipes the desktop back no matter what is displayed (ie if I have my desktop set to display 16, 32, etc bit color, then does it matter what the application is set to?), so this sounds a little whacky. How many of these images (200 - 300 mb) can a satellite take, store and transmit, maybe the technologies we should be getting from NASA is memory, compression and wireless transmission technologies.

Blake
--
Vendor: Author of Link Logger which is a traffic analysis and firewall logging tool

reply
james @ 26th Oct 02:19AM:
Re: UK's High Court rejects appeal for UFO hacker

That guy is way too charismatic to be an aspie. Or if he does have some amount of it he obviously isn't enough of an aspie to justify special treatment.

Also, anyone who uses a mental condition to justify breaking the law should automatically be put in a Mental Health detention facility until their mental condition is cured (if it can't be cured that means for life). Unlike a normal offender, they, by their own admission, are unable to stop themselves from breaking the law. Obviously the conditions should be much nicer than a jail, and they should be given all the access to entertainment and education they desire, but if they want to claim their mental condition makes them unable to control themselves, this is the most reasonable solution.
--
[BQUOTE=[user=Metatron2008]]But people who download thousands of movies and games.... Yes, they are as bad as any murderer[/BQUOTE]

reply
james @ 26th Oct 04:10AM:
Re: UK's High Court rejects appeal for UFO hacker

said by Link Logger :

and it took the prosecution team to long to collect evidence, like crime has an expiry date.
I thought even little kids knew what "statute of limitations" meant. Tip: it's not a statue that illustrates the limitations of our physical form... It's something to do with what you just said.
--
said by Metatron2008 :

But people who download thousands of movies and games.... Yes, they are as bad as any murderer

reply
Link Logger @ 26th Oct 04:35AM:
Re: UK's High Court rejects appeal for UFO hacker

Statute of Limitations (»en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statute_of_limitations)
quote:
Common law legal system might have a statute, for example, limiting the time for prosecution of crimes designated as misdemeanors to two years after the offense occurred. Under such a statute, if a person is discovered to have committed a misdemeanor three years ago, the time has expired for the prosecution of the misdemeanor. While on one hand it may seem unfair to forbid prosecution of crimes that law enforcement can now prove to the standard required by law (cf., e.g., Beyond a reasonable doubt, Clear and convincing evidence, and Preponderance of the evidence), the purpose of a statute of limitations or its equivalent is to ensure that the possibility of punishment for an act committed sufficiently long ago cannot give rise to either a person's incarceration or the criminal justice system's activation. In short, unless it be a heinous crime--as a rule, murder; often rape; and occasionally such violent crimes as robbery or arson--social justice as enacted through law has compromised that lesser crimes from long ago are best let be rather than distract attention from contemporary serious crimes.


I don't think this applies in this case as the delays have been initiate by the accused and in delays associated with proceeding with his extradition (ie getting him to court). Now the evolution of his case sounded like he was initially charged with a lessor charge but as the evidence was collected (ie his personal computer collected via warrant at his initial arrest), the charges were upgraded all of this within a reasonable time line (ie all before the case was heard in court, as mentioned the actions of the accused and his appeals etc has been the largest impact on the extended time line of this case), hence I doubt there is a statute of limitation clock running in this case as idea is to limit prosecution's timeline but they have been ready to go for sometime and the accused can't use the statute to have a case dropped where they are the source of the delay.

Perhaps Gary should have quickly accepted the initial deal put before him, before law enforcement figured out the larger scope/impact of his activities.

Blake
Edit - a famous case which occured in Canada where someone did the deal, before all the facts and evidence was collected was Karla Homolka who plea bargained to manslaughter and 12 years for 'her' role as an 'innocent victim of a murderous monster husband', later videotapes of the crimes were found that showed her to be a much more active participant in the murders, but the deal was done and hence refered to as the 'deal with the devil' »en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karla_Homolka
reply
SUMware @ 26th Oct 09:52AM:
Re: UK's High Court rejects appeal for UFO hacker

said by james :

That guy is way too charismatic to be an aspie. Or if he does have some amount of it he obviously isn't enough of an aspie to justify special treatment.
Thanks james MD, Psy.D. Interesting that you want to play psychiatrist, judge, jury and executioner.
said by Link Logger :

The question is simply, is he or is he not using Asperger's as a defense?

Ultimately he needs to appear in court so that a court can determine if Asperger's is a valid defense and if so to what extent. While I might be spouting 'misguided dissertations', he can't be his own judge and jury in this matter. If thinks he has a case then the courts will agree with him, otherwise.....
Well now, isn't that the point? It's called fact finding and due process of law and legal rights. Interesting that a number of people here want to skip the legal process and go the dictatorship/authoritarian route. Evidently the British government and legal system isn't behaving as you deem they should.

Why bother with legal systems, fact finding, due process, lawful rights protection and rule of law when some claim to be omniscient.
reply
james @ 26th Oct 02:38PM:
Re: UK's High Court rejects appeal for UFO hacker

said by SUMware :

Thanks james MD, Psy.D.
It's obvious. Go on youtube and watch the aspies talking on their webcams. That guy is not one, I have a feeling some people here are though.
--
said by Metatron2008 :

But people who download thousands of movies and games.... Yes, they are as bad as any murderer

reply
SUMware @ 26th Oct 07:12PM:
Re: UK's High Court rejects appeal for UFO hacker

From The Guardian
26 October 2009 -
said by David Batty and agencies :
New medical evidence could stop hacker Gary McKinnon's extradition

The home secretary, Alan Johnson, pledged today to examine new medical evidence in the case of the computer hacker Gary McKinnon "very carefully" before approving his extradition to the US on charges of breaking into the Pentagon's military networks.

Johnson told MPs he had "stopped the clock" on proceedings to give McKinnon's lawyers time to consider medical reports and make legal representations.

The home secretary was today also pressed to delay further until an investigation into the US-UK extradition treaty* had been carried out by the Commons home affairs select committee.

He said: "We have stopped the clock ticking on the representation to the European court because new medical evidence has been provided.

"There are two issues upon which Gary McKinnon's legal advisors have argued: the first is that the director of public prosecutions should have tried him in this country.

"The high court in July dismissed that, and wouldn't allow it to go to judicial review."

"I have to ensure that his Article 3 human rights** are being respected. It's that new medical evidence that I will be looking at very carefully".

McKinnon's MP, David Burrowes, said the new medical evidence was "compelling" and detailed the effect extradition would have on McKinnon's Asperger's.

The Conservative MP for Enfield Southgate urged the home secretary not to execute the extradition order until after the select committee inquiry on 10 November***.

When McKinnon was refused permission to appeal to the supreme court earlier this month, Lord Justice Stanley Burnton, who also heard his earlier high court appeal, said extradition was "a lawful and proportionate response" to his alleged offending.

He said McKinnon would be unlikely to succeed with his claim that extradition would breach his right to a private and family life, under Article 8 of the European Convention of Human Rights.

Nor did the court think that extradition to the US would be a breach of his right not to be subjected to inhuman or degrading treatment under Article 3.

In August, Labour's deputy leader Harriet Harman said that if McKinnon were convicted by an American court, Britain would move quickly to arrange for him to serve any jail term in the UK.


* Extradition Act 2003

** The European Convention on Human Rights and European Convention on Human Rights
Human Rights Act 1998
The Charter of Fundamental Rights of the European Union

*** The New UK-US Extradition Treaty [analysis] (pdf)
reply
Link Logger @ 27th Oct 12:47PM:
Re: UK's High Court rejects appeal for UFO hacker

said by SUMware :

He said McKinnon would be unlikely to succeed with his claim that extradition would breach his right to a private and family life, under Article 8 of the European Convention of Human Rights.
He has got to be kidding right? He has been charged with a CRIME, and so he must go to court to see if he is guilty of the accused crimes and if so he could very well and legally be sentenced to prison and so much for his 'private and family life', but I'm sure bubba would love to take 'care' of him.

In my opinion whats really going is Gary got busted, confessed, and now he simply doesn't want to go to court where they will no doubly sentence him to prison. This isn't about Asperger's, or extradition, this is about Gary not wanting to go to jail for his actions which he knew at the time he did them that they were illegal.

Gary just go to court. If you are so sure of your innocence then you shouldn't have any problem getting the court to dismiss the charges, but personally Gary, I think your guilty from what I've read and seen (you confess a number of times to what your accused of), and so Gary I think there is a very good chance that you will be sentenced to jail (don't think your that big/important to score 80 years however, because frankly your only a suitable poster boy for stupid hackers, so I'm betting 4 years tops, but since you have offended the courts with your delay tactics you might get a bit more).

I don't know where I'm going to get my laughs once this whole thing is over as this just keeps getting funnier all the time as Gary and whoever is running his circus just keep grasping at dumber and dumber straws.

I can hardly wait for court as no doubt the topics of aliens and free energy, space marines etc will come up and will keep us laughing for awhile yet.

Blake
--
Vendor: Author of Link Logger which is a traffic analysis and firewall logging tool

reply
SUMware @ 27th Oct 06:11PM:
Re: UK's High Court rejects appeal for UFO hacker

Try reading the quote again. And, you know, due process of law European style, not fascist, authoritarian, nor American style. etc. Live with it.
reply
Rebirth @ 29th Oct 07:40PM:
Re: UK's High Court rejects appeal for UFO hacker

This should provide some good evidence for the defence, and direct from the other Defence lol.

"Quoting from the PDF"

Cyberdeterrence and CyberWar by Martin C. LibiCki RAND Corporation

Summary

Cyberattacks Are Possible Only Because Systems Have Flaws

Yet system vulnerabilities do not result from immutable physical laws. They occur because of a gap between theory and practice. In theory, a system should do only what its designers and operators want it to. In practice, it does exactly what its code (and settings) tells it to. The difference exists because systems are complex and growing more so. In all this lies a saving grace. Errors can be corrected, especially if cyberattacks expose vulnerabilities that need attention. The degree to which and the terms by which computer networks can be accessed from the outside (where almost all adversaries are) can also be specifed.

** THERE IS, IN THE END, NO FORCED ENTRY IN CYBERSPACE. WHOEVER GETS IN ENTERS THROUGH PATHWAYS PRODUCED BY THE SYSTEM ITSELF. **

It is only a modest exaggeration to say that organizations are vulnerable to cyberattack only to the extent they want to be.

»www.rand.org/pubs/monographs/200···G877.pdf
reply
PrntRhd @ 29th Oct 08:05PM:
Re: UK's High Court rejects appeal for UFO hacker

I will disagree.
Under that scheme, a building owner should be held responsible if an arsonist was able to burn down his building.

In a civilized world setting the fire is the criminal act, not owning a building that could be burned.

McKinnon is a legal Subject of the UK, he is responsible for crimes committed under UK law if committed on UK soil, and if he commits crimes in other countries via internet networks he is still responsible for his actions. His already confessed actions were legally criminal in both the UK and the USA. I don't care which country prosecutes him, he still has to answer to the criminal charges.
reply
javaMan @ 29th Oct 10:00PM:
Re: UK's High Court rejects appeal for UFO hacker

said by Rebirth :

. . .

** THERE IS, IN THE END, NO FORCED ENTRY IN CYBERSPACE. WHOEVER GETS IN ENTERS THROUGH PATHWAYS PRODUCED BY THE SYSTEM ITSELF. **

It is only a modest exaggeration to say that organizations are vulnerable to cyberattack only to the extent they want to be.

»www.rand.org/pubs/monographs/200···G877.pdf
I have absolutely no idea how you came to that conclusion from the quote you posted. It says nothing to suggest that.
--
Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness. . . Isa. 5:20

reply
Rebirth @ 30th Oct 12:18PM:
Re: UK's High Court rejects appeal for UFO hacker

javaman

I did not come to that "conclusion" as it's NOT a conclusion, it's a fact. And it's right there in black and white in the PDF as i rightly stated before.

And i just downloaded it again to see if they'd altered it, and it's Exactly the same.
reply
SUMware @ 5th Nov 09:25AM:
Re: UK's High Court rejects appeal for UFO hacker

From ComputerWeekly
05 Nov 2009 -
said by Ian Grant :
Change to law could save Gary McKinnon from extradition

The House of Lords is debating a change in the law that could save self-confessed Pentagon hacker Gary McKinnon from extradition.


The change to the Policing and Crime Bill would let judges stop an extradition if most of the crime was committed in the UK and it would serve justice to have the trial in the UK.

Home secretary Alan Johnson said earlier he had "stopped the clock" on McKinnon's extradition so that he could consider new medical evidence. McKinnon suffers from Asperger's syndrome, an autistic condition, and has suffered recurrent bouts of depression since his initial arrest in 2002.

The 2003 extradition treaty between the US and UK allows the US to ask for UK nationals to be extradited without having to provide prima facie evidence of wrong-doing. British officials must supply evidence of "probable cause" before the US will extradite one of their nationals for trial in the UK.

Parliament was quick to ratify the treaty in the wake of the 9/11 attacks, but Congress still has not. This has led to criticism that the US was abusing the agreement to pursue non-terrorist suspects, or, as in McKinnon's case, where it had little or no hard evidence beyond McKinnon's own confession that he hacked into Pentagon computers.

McKinnon denies US charges that his activities caused damages worth some $800,000, and has fought several court cases to stand trial in the UK rather than the US.

Lord Thomas of Gresford, the Liberal Democrat peer who is proposing the changes, said, "We believe there is a significant imbalance between the requirements of US citizens to this country and the extradition of British citizens to the USA," the Telegraph reported.

MPs on the home affairs select committee will hold a special hearing on the treaty on 10 November.

reply
Link Logger @ 5th Nov 02:02PM:
Re: UK's High Court rejects appeal for UFO hacker

I must admit I'm having a bit of trouble with

said by SUMware :

quote:
The 2003 extradition treaty between the US and UK allows the US to ask for UK nationals to be extradited without having to provide prima facie evidence of wrong-doing.

When he has publicly confessed a number of times, what other evidence is needed and why?

PRIMA-FACIE, EVIDENCE, CASE - Latin for "at first view." Evidence that is sufficient to raise a presumption of fact or to establish the fact in question unless rebutted. Certainly by confessing he isn't rebutting the case, and certainly there must of be evidence for the initial arrest and search warrant, so certainly the extradition seems proper on that front, so the only question left is medical condition, but in the interviews I saw with him, there didn't appear to be anything so substantial to prevent this from going to trial (I would think if you can sit in a pub as he did for one interview, you can sit in a court room).

So lets say for a second that the US agrees to hold the trial in the UK, and Gary loses the trial and is convicted, will the US be able to sue him for expenses of having the case heard in the UK (travel, lodging, meals, etc) or will the US tax payers have to foot the extra expense of holding the trial in the UK?

Blake
--
Vendor: Author of Link Logger which is a traffic analysis and firewall logging tool

reply
SUMware @ 18th Nov 10:35PM:
Re: UK's High Court rejects appeal for UFO hacker

From Scotsman.com
19 November 2009 -
said by Craig Woodhouse :
MP calls for Scot who hacked Pentagon to be given job

Computer hacker Gary McKinnon should be given a job rather than extradited to the United States, as his skills could be "put to good use".

That was the view of MP Keith Vaz, who heads the home affairs select committee. He said McKinnon showed intelligence "far beyond what anyone could imagine" when he hacked into US military networks.

Mr Vaz again urged Home Secretary Alan Johnson to let McKinnon stay in the UK and repeated calls for the UK-US extradition treaty to be reviewed. McKinnon, who was born in Glasgow, suffers from Asperger's syndrome – a form of autism – and faces the prospect of a lengthy prison term if he is sent to the US for trial.

During debate on the Queen's Speech, Mr Vaz said: "The Home Secretary is still considering Gary McKinnon's case. I hope very much that he will … allow Gary McKinnon to stay.

"Anyone who can hack into the computer system of the Pentagon should not actually be sent to trial – I believe he should be offered a job because if he was able to do that, he clearly has intelligence far beyond what anyone could imagine."


-

From The Guardian
13 November 2009 -
said by Duncan Campbell :
Don't restart the clock on Gary McKinnon

Enough is enough: the hacker's medical diagnosis means extradition would be disastrous. Alan Johnson must act now


Earlier this year, Professor Simon Baron Cohen presented evidence that, if extradited "there is a risk that he would take his own life." Now, in the latest submission, which the home secretary is asking his advisers to study, Professor Jeremy Turk has an equally disturbing diagnosis. This gives Alan Johnson an honourable opportunity to halt the extradition right now and institute proceedings here.

It is worth reminding ourselves of some of the background. The hacking took place more than eight years ago. At the time, and in the wake of September 11, because of the disparaging comments left by McKinnon – "your security is crap" and so on – the US authorities assumed that something serious might be underway. In all the years since, it has become clear that McKinnon was seeking evidence for his theories about UFOs and a free energy system which he believed might lurk in the computers of Nasa and the Pentagon. On his arrest by the UK police, he admitted his offence immediately.

So who is the victim and what damage has been done? The US military and Nasa have been caused irritation, inconvenience and embarrassment. They have suffered some financial loss in the damage to their computer system, although the figure of $700,000 that the US authorities have advanced is fanciful, much like the old "street values" that customs and excise used to attribute to drugs seizures on the old scientific principal of "think of a number, double it and add a nought". The true financial cost is a small fraction and much of it is merely to install the sort of security system that any self-respecting small business would have had anyway. As Peter Sommer, professor of security at the London School of Economics, has said about the case: "the costs claimed for are features that should have been there in the first place."

There are no security issues at stake here. The whole pursuit of McKinnon is a throwback to the paranoia of the Bush years. The only remaining impetus for carrying on the prosecution is, presumably, "pour encourager les autres" but hackers across the world have been aware of this case for years and the systems have not suffered any similar incursions since. McKinnon, as many American military personnel have laconically noted, did the Pentagon a favour by pointing out their failings.

The political consensus that McKinnon should not be extradited without, at the very least, a guarantee of bail and an immediate post-trial return to the UK, has grown. It spans the spectrum from Boris Johnson and Conservative frontbenchers, through the Lib Dems to former home secretary David Blunkett and all those Labour backbenchers who can still remember why they might have joined the party in the first place; you know, things like a desire for justice, a compassion for the vulnerable. The case has been argued with admirable persistence by the legal team of solicitor Karen Todner and barristers Edward Fitzgerald QC and Ben Cooper.

This saga has been a long one. Enough is enough. It is now time to stop the clock ticking on Gary McKinnon for good.

reply
DrModem @ 18th Nov 10:46PM:
Re: UK's High Court rejects appeal for UFO hacker

Up to 70 years for just hacking(or in this case... guessing) passwords is ridiculous.

A fine? Yea.

A year or so of jailtime? Maybe.

But more than that, and you're talking crazy talk.

Most pedophiles get far lighter sentences... sheesh...
reply
Link Logger @ 19th Nov 12:18AM:
Re: UK's High Court rejects appeal for UFO hacker

OK so is this guy some sort of evil genius as stated by the first article, or a harmless potential suicide case as stated by the second article, he can't be both unless of course he could be either depending on what helps his cause at the moment.

Send him to court, he looked and behaved fine while yakking it up with the interviewers etc. At least in court then we will be able to determine if he is an evil genius capable of hacking anything, or a harmless bunny who's only skill is turning doorknobs and then ultimately what should be done with him.

The sad part about all of this is he has become the poster boy for so many causes (bogus and otherwise), that his real issue will never be solved and the 'stress' that it is causing on his life won't end anytime soon.

Had he gone to court the first time around, he'd long since been a free guy, but nope he had to become a political pawn in something thats never going to end.

Blake
--
Vendor: Author of Link Logger which is a traffic analysis and firewall logging tool

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