[Speed Problem] Wierd Speed Issue - Test show good speed Reality
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RaccoonN @ 15th Oct 04:17PM:
[Speed Problem] Wierd Speed Issue - Test show good speed Reality
So I recently switched to AT & T ultra 1.5m down. Ever since iv had it speed test show it download at 1.2-1.5mb down, but anytime I try to actually download something torrent, cod4mod/maps, and anything else I can never top 150kbps even on downloads I know should easily be able to max out my connection because these places use to max out my old cable broadband line easily at 750kbps.
I call Att and there support told me the problem was on my computer and not on there end, and I have looked and looked and cant find anything wrong :huh: I have gotten higher speeds previously with my old isp(Cable) and at lans, so im not so sure its completely my fault or on my end.
I have tried google'ing the problem which is how I found this website and I have read through your faqs and changed my mtu and r-something to the numbers you suggest and I felt no change at all.
I have the motorolla 2210 modem a lynksys befsr41, and im on Vista 64 bit. I have avast anti-virus and no firewalls enabled and I get same speeds with or without router connected.
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
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Rammer @ 15th Oct 04:40PM:
Re: [Speed Problem] Wierd Speed Issue - Test show good speed Rea
cod4 mods have cut back on there d/l
try this site it is fast
»www.rvsgaming.com/modules.php?name=Downloads
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RaccoonN @ 15th Oct 05:17PM:
Re: [Speed Problem] Wierd Speed Issue - Test show good speed Rea
Yea its more then just that I have tested with sites I know I should be able to max out on, its not an isolated problem at all I just used that as an example.
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wayjac @ 15th Oct 05:55PM:
Re: [Speed Problem] Wierd Speed Issue - Test show good speed Rea
If your dsl sync speed is 1536kbps
You'll get speed test results up to 1.3Mbps
Downloads will show up to 162 KBytes
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RaccoonN @ 15th Oct 06:16PM:
Re: [Speed Problem] Wierd Speed Issue - Test show good speed Rea
That makes no sense to me.
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wayjac @ 15th Oct 07:04PM:
Re: [Speed Problem] Wierd Speed Issue - Test show good speed Rea
Sorry I my intent was to try and show the different values used to represent throughput/download values
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RaccoonN @ 15th Oct 08:26PM:
Re: [Speed Problem] Wierd Speed Issue - Test show good speed Rea
Yea I knew about that I believe I was speaking in the same measurement types.
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Airwolf7 @ 16th Oct 01:39AM:
Re: [Speed Problem] Wierd Speed Issue - Test show good speed Rea
Your ISP sells you service measured in kilobits per second. Ultra is advertised at 1500 kilobits per second. Your cable service was probably 6000 to 8000 kilobits per second.
Your computer measures speed in kibibytes per second when downloading a file.
There are 8 bits in a byte.
There are 1024 bytes in a kibibyte.
Your maximum download speed should be approximately 150 kibibytes per second without MaxSync provisioning or 180 kibibytes per second with MaxSync provisioning.
.
I might have messed this up some because it's late and I'm sleepy.
--
Reagan 2012 - Even dead he is a better choice!
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RaccoonN @ 16th Oct 02:07AM:
Re: [Speed Problem] Wierd Speed Issue - Test show good speed Rea
So they use cheap wordplay to lie and say they have 1.5meg download speeds when it is much more like 150kb?
because if thats true it should almost seem illegal for them to do that.... and it would mean im paying about 500x to much for this crap.
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Pashune @ 16th Oct 01:14PM:
Re: [Speed Problem] Wierd Speed Issue - Test show good speed Rea
said by RaccoonN :
So they use cheap wordplay to lie and say they have 1.5meg download speeds when it is much more like 150kb?
because if thats true it should almost seem illegal for them to do that.... and it would mean im paying about 500x to much for this crap.
If your line syncs at 1472 kilobits, you can download up to, in my experience, around 155 KB/Sec. You have to account for IP overhead and PPPoE data, which is necessary for DSL and just about any type of IP communications. Having your line provisioned on a MaxSync profile will give you extra speed because you wouldn't be limited to the 1472 kbit downstream cap. You would be able to download up to 182 KB/Sec, but not all DSL lines play well with MaxSync.
quote:
Your slow speeds may just be the way your line is provisioned and the speed test you use. Advertised DSL speeds are sometimes your "connection rate" or "data rate" not "download speed". Due to overhead and signaling it is not possible to download end-user data at actual advertised speeds. Depending on the type of service and whether you are served from a remote DSLAM or not you will have a minimum of roughly 12.5% overhead.
9.4% 5 byte overhead within 53 byte ATM cell
0.5% 8 byte PPPoE overhead
1.3% 20 byte IP overhead
1.3% 20 byte TCP overhead
12.5% Total Signal Overhead (minimum)
So a DSL customer with advertised speeds of 1472/256 will have a real world end user data speeds of roughly 1250/220 at best.
I imagine you could download at your cable ISP's speeds or better because you're not limited by line distance and the way the technologies work are rather different.
--
ISP: CableOne 5 mbit/500 kbit
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RaccoonN @ 16th Oct 01:24PM:
Re: [Speed Problem] Wierd Speed Issue - Test show good speed Rea
Ok, just so I am sure I shouldn't expect to possibly get 1.5 megabytes per sec for »www.bellsouth.com/consumer/inets···de=BISFA
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Pashune @ 16th Oct 03:06PM:
Re: [Speed Problem] Wierd Speed Issue - Test show good speed Rea
Are higher speeds available at your address?
--
ISP: CableOne 5 mbit/500 kbit
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RaccoonN @ 16th Oct 03:18PM:
Re: [Speed Problem] Wierd Speed Issue - Test show good speed Rea
No that is the best they have here.
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Pashune @ 16th Oct 03:27PM:
Re: [Speed Problem] Wierd Speed Issue - Test show good speed Rea
I don't think MaxSync would work so well then; You might be able to get AT&T to switch your line over to a 3 meg profile, which would try to make your line run at 3 meg sync whilst giving you a speed boost (From 155 KB/Sec to 182 KB/Sec) but I wouldn't count on it.
In less common cases the reason you may not be able to upgrade is due to the fact there's insufficient bandwidth and/or ports, but I'm willing to bet that your line just won't be able to support the extra bandwidth due to loop length/high attenuation.
EDIT: Try posting your DSL stats/logs back here.
»AT&T Southeast Forum FAQ »How do I access the 2210 line stats and event logs? What do the numbers mean?
--
ISP: CableOne 5 mbit/500 kbit
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RaccoonN @ 16th Oct 06:46PM:
Re: [Speed Problem] Wierd Speed Issue - Test show good speed Rea
Transceiver information
DSL Sync Rate (Kbits/Sec) 1430 252 down/up
SN Margin (dB) 6.00 7.60
Line Attenuation (dB) 61.80 42.80
CRC Errors 0 0
--
Current Device Status
DSL Device Status....... Up
PPP Session Status..... Up
Connection Type........... PPPoE
Time since last boot...... 0 days, 0 hrs: 9 mins: 25 secs
Time last modem self test.... 00:00:04:50
Last modem self test result.. PASS
EVENTS
**********************************************************************
The first number is the Event time (days:hrs:min:sec) since boot.
Events are listed starting from the most recent.
**********************************************************************
00:00:04:50 ST: Modem Self Test Passed!
00:00:04:50 LHD: Interface Eth 100BT, State online
00:00:04:50 LHD: IP 192.168.1.246, MAC 00-1e-8c-9b-8d-6a
00:00:02:39 nt-Type: %s
65922400F0C5000000050000
00:00:02:39 Host-Uniq 020000000000000002000000
00:00:02:39 AC-Name=nworlama71w
00:00:02:39 Service-Name=ANY
00:00:02:35 PPPOE: PPP Session ID = 0x1e0f is closed
00:00:02:35 PPPOE: Sending PADT packet for PPP , Session 0x1e0f is closed
00:00:02:32 ADDR(0x0) DNS(0x0) DNS2(0x0) WINS(0x0) WINS2(0x0)
00:00:02:32 ipcp: IPCP Config-Request+
00:00:02:29 ADDR(0x0) DNS(0x0) DNS2(0x0) WINS(0x0) WINS2(0x0)
00:00:02:29 ipcp: IPCP Config-Request+
00:00:02:26 ADDR(0x0) DNS(0x0) DNS2(0x0) WINS(0x0) WINS2(0x0)
00:00:02:26 ipcp: IPCP Config-Request+
00:00:02:23 ADDR(0x0) DNS(0x0) DNS2(0x0) WINS(0x0) WINS2(0x0)
00:00:02:23 ipcp: IPCP Config-Request+
00:00:02:20 ADDR(0x0) DNS(0x0) DNS2(0x0) WINS(0x0) WINS2(0x0)
00:00:02:20 ipcp: IPCP Config-Request+
00:00:02:17 ADDR(0x0) DNS(0x0) DNS2(0x0) WINS(0x0) WINS2(0x0)
00:00:02:17 ipcp: IPCP Config-Request+
00:00:02:14 ADDR(0x0) DNS(0x0) DNS2(0x0) WINS(0x0) WINS2(0x0)
00:00:02:14 ipcp: IPCP Config-Request+
00:00:02:11 ADDR(0x0) DNS(0x0) DNS2(0x0) WINS(0x0) WINS2(0x0)
00:00:02:11 ipcp: IPCP Config-Request+
00:00:02:08 ADDR(0x0) DNS(0x0) DNS2(0x0) WINS(0x0) WINS2(0x0)
00:00:02:08 ipcp: IPCP Config-Request+
00:00:02:05 ADDR(0x0) DNS(0x0) DNS2(0x0) WINS(0x0) WINS2(0x0)
00:00:02:05 ipcp: IPCP Config-Request+
00:00:02:05 lcp: returning Configure-Ack
00:00:02:05 MAGICNUMBER(3325f399) (ACK) MRU(1500) (ACK)
00:00:02:05 lcp: LCP Recv Config-Req:+
00:00:02:05 lcp: returning Configure-Reject
00:00:02:05 (PAP) (Reject)
00:00:02:05 lcp: ** Server wants authentication (PAP). Not configured for PAP.
00:00:02:05 MAGICNUMBER(3325f399) (ACK) MRU(1500) (ACK) AUTHTYPE(c023)
00:00:02:05 lcp: LCP Recv Config-Req:+
00:00:02:05 lcp: returning Configure-Reject
00:00:02:05 (CHAP) (Reject)
00:00:02:05 lcp: ** Server wants authentication (CHAP). Not configured for CHAP.
00:00:02:05 MAGICNUMBER(3325f399) (ACK) MRU(1500) (ACK) AUTHTYPE(c223)
00:00:02:05 lcp: LCP Recv Config-Req:+
00:00:02:05 MRU 0x5d4+ MAGIC 0xf0917b63+
00:00:02:05 lcp: LCP Send Config-Request+
00:00:02:05 Host-Uniq 00000002
00:00:02:05 AC-Name=nworlama71w
00:00:02:05 Service-Name=ANY
00:00:01:38 PPPOE: PPP Session ID = 0x1e0d is closed
00:00:01:38 PPPOE: Sending PADT packet for PPP , Session 0x1e0d is closed
00:00:01:35 ADDR(0x0) DNS(0x0) DNS2(0x0) WINS(0x0) WINS2(0x0)
00:00:01:35 ipcp: IPCP Config-Request+
00:00:01:32 ADDR(0x0) DNS(0x0) DNS2(0x0) WINS(0x0) WINS2(0x0)
00:00:01:32 ipcp: IPCP Config-Request+
00:00:01:29 ADDR(0x0) DNS(0x0) DNS2(0x0) WINS(0x0) WINS2(0x0)
00:00:01:29 ipcp: IPCP Config-Request+
00:00:01:26 ADDR(0x0) DNS(0x0) DNS2(0x0) WINS(0x0) WINS2(0x0)
00:00:01:26 ipcp: IPCP Config-Request+
00:00:01:23 ADDR(0x0) DNS(0x0) DNS2(0x0) WINS(0x0) WINS2(0x0)
00:00:01:23 ipcp: IPCP Config-Request+
00:00:01:20 ADDR(0x0) DNS(0x0) DNS2(0x0) WINS(0x0) WINS2(0x0)
00:00:01:20 ipcp: IPCP Config-Request+
00:00:01:17 ADDR(0x0) DNS(0x0) DNS2(0x0) WINS(0x0) WINS2(0x0)
00:00:01:17 ipcp: IPCP Config-Request+
00:00:01:14 ADDR(0x0) DNS(0x0) DNS2(0x0) WINS(0x0) WINS2(0x0)
00:00:01:14 ipcp: IPCP Config-Request+
00:00:01:11 ADDR(0x0) DNS(0x0) DNS2(0x0) WINS(0x0) WINS2(0x0)
00:00:01:11 ipcp: IPCP Config-Request+
00:00:01:08 ADDR(0x0) DNS(0x0) DNS2(0x0) WINS(0x0) WINS2(0x0)
00:00:01:08 ipcp: IPCP Config-Request+
00:00:01:08 lcp: returning Configure-Ack
00:00:01:08 MAGICNUMBER(6aa61e3a) (ACK) MRU(1500) (ACK)
00:00:01:08 lcp: LCP Recv Config-Req:+
00:00:01:08 lcp: returning Configure-Reject
00:00:01:08 (PAP) (Reject)
00:00:01:08 lcp: ** Server wants authentication (PAP). Not configured for PAP.
00:00:01:08 MAGICNUMBER(6aa61e3a) (ACK) MRU(1500) (ACK) AUTHTYPE(c023)
00:00:01:08 lcp: LCP Recv Config-Req:+
00:00:01:08 lcp: returning Configure-Reject
00:00:01:08 (CHAP) (Reject)
00:00:01:08 lcp: ** Server wants authentication (CHAP). Not configured for CHAP.
00:00:01:08 MAGICNUMBER(6aa61e3a) (ACK) MRU(1500) (ACK) AUTHTYPE(c223)
00:00:01:08 lcp: LCP Recv Config-Req:+
00:00:01:08 MRU 0x5d4+ MAGIC 0x324d513d+
00:00:01:08 lcp: LCP Send Config-Request+
00:00:01:05 Host-Uniq 00000001
00:00:01:05 AC-Name=nworlama71w
00:00:01:05 Service-Name=ANY
00:00:00:46 RFC1483-1 up
00:00:00:00 SSL: Initialization Success
00:00:00:00 SSL: Installed Verisign, Equifax & Thawte Root CA certificates
00:00:00:00 SSL: Initializing Service
00:00:00:00 FW: initializing service
00:00:00:00 DIA: Diagnostics service initializing
00:00:00:00 SNMP: initializing service over UDP
00:00:00:00 DNS: nameserver address is 0.0.0.0
00:00:00:00 DNS: initializing service
00:00:00:00 DHCP: Setup Client On UDP Port 68
00:00:00:00 DHCP: Setup Server On UDP Port 67
00:00:00:00 DHCP: Initializing Service
00:00:00:00 RIP: initializing
00:00:00:00 IP: (10/100BT-LAN) IP Protocol Up
00:00:00:00 IP: (10/100BT-LAN) Ethernet Physical Link Active
00:00:00:00 BRDG: (10/100BT-LAN) Port Physical Link Active
00:00:00:00 PPP: PPP over Ethernet vcc1 Port listening for PPP requests
00:00:00:00 PPP: PPP over Ethernet vcc1 binding to PPPoE
00:00:00:00 IP: Initialization complete
00:00:00:00 IP: Adding default gateway over PPP over Ethernet vcc1
00:00:00:00 IP: Address mapping enabled on interface PPP over Ethernet vcc1
00:00:00:00 IP: IPSec client pass through is enabled
00:00:00:00 IP: Routing between WAN ports is disabled
00:00:00:00 BRDG: Initialization complete
00:00:00:00 BRDG: Bridging from one WAN port to another is disabled
00:00:00:00 BRDG: Bridge not enabled for WAN.
00:00:00:00 POE: Binding to Ethernet (ether/vcc1)
00:00:00:00 POE: Initializing PPP over Ethernet service
00:00:00:00 ATM: Waiting for PHY layer to come up
00:00:00:00 AAL5: initializing service
00:00:00:00 BR: Starting kernel
00:00:00:00 BR: memory sizes - 2048K Flash, 8192K RAM
00:00:00:00 BR: last install status:
00:00:00:00 BR: Netopia-2000/157074966000 (Netopia-2000, rev 1), PID 1201
00:00:00:00 BR: Netopia SOC OS version 7.7.3 (build r7)
00:00:00:00 BR: No configuration options available, establishing defaults
00:00:00:00 HB: heartbeat option disabled
00:00:00:00 HB: heartbeat service initializing
00:00:00:00 IP address server initialization complete
00:00:00:00
00:00:00:00 BOOT: Warm start v7.7.3 ----------------------------------
00:00:00:00 KS: Will use factory defaults
00:00:00:00 KS: No customer options in flash
00:00:00:00 KS: Checking for customer defaults in flash
00:00:00:00 KS: No configured options in flash
Logs was long but didnt know how to attach a .txt file to make is smaller.
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Pashune @ 16th Oct 07:00PM:
Re: [Speed Problem] Wierd Speed Issue - Test show good speed Rea
said by RaccoonN :
Transceiver information
DSL Sync Rate (Kbits/Sec) 1430 252 down/up
SN Margin (dB) 6.00 7.60
Line Attenuation (dB) 61.80 42.80
CRC Errors 0 0
Yeah. Don't count on getting MaxSync or potential upgrades until a nearby DSLAM is on your line.
If you want faster speeds, you could get a dual WAN router and an additional DSL line, but it can get pricey. You could also try setting up a homerun line, but I don't think it'd be worth the trouble unless you want your service to potentially be a bit more stable; a technician could also try to condition your line and, if you're really lucky, move you to a closer DSLAM.
Other than that, I'm not sure what else to tell you. :(
--
ISP: CableOne 5 mbit/500 kbit
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RaccoonN @ 16th Oct 07:12PM:
Re: [Speed Problem] Wierd Speed Issue - Test show good speed Rea
So far it has only died on me once while I was using it.
I think how ATT writes there speed should not be allowed its obviously a ploy to pretend to have higher speeds. :(
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mullardel34 @ 24th Oct 09:23PM:
Re: [Speed Problem] Wierd Speed Issue - Test show good speed Rea
I live in LA, and what I read here is correct.
150-155kbps is what I was getting until the cheap AT&T 2701 router/modem became crippled after a simple power failure (someone turned off my APS unit). Though the internet speed hasn't changed, now I get 95kbps, and I'll bet there are many other people out there with the same problem I have.
Thank you for good, solid information.
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teletech @ 28th Oct 04:58PM:
Re: [Speed Problem] Wierd Speed Issue - Test show good speed Rea
Att isnt falsely advertising their speeds, you are miss understanding what you are reading. you are not downloading at 1.5 MBytes it is 1.5 Mbits per second. as in the previous post they explain the math.
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RaccoonN @ 28th Oct 06:59PM:
Re: [Speed Problem] Wierd Speed Issue - Test show good speed Rea
Yes I understand that now, after reading all of that but in my eyes and almost everyone else will not realise the difference between MBps and Mbps... Megabits is imo and outdated ?measuring system. Everyone talks in Megabytes now.
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teletech @ 28th Oct 09:03PM:
Re: [Speed Problem] Wierd Speed Issue - Test show good speed Rea
Hopefully in the near future we will be like japan, fiber everywhere but for now we all have to take what we can get. but in your case if your sing 1.5 for game play online it works perfectly, online game play relies heavily on latency not ultimate bandwidth. but if att isnt giving you what you need then find another isp.
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anon @ 28th Oct 11:51PM:
Re: [Speed Problem] Wierd Speed Issue - Test show good speed Rea
OP, I understand your frustration...but I'm liking how you think AT&T is committing fraud by saying "download speeds up to 1.5 megs"
What is a meg?
Do they mean a megaBIT or a megaBYTE?
I'm willing to bet that some AT&T sales rep (store, phone, door-to-door) told you that it would be faster than cable and would download at 1.5 megaBYTES per second. They usually don't know what they're talking about...in my experience...
Around here, Charter runs ads that say "up to 20 meg downloads!"
Are THEY being fraudulent along with AT&T?
No, they are preying on the consumer...idiotic consumers think that 20 megs = 20 megaBYTES because this is what they have been taught.
Go back to cable, your loop is terrible, by the way.
Trust me. Dealing with DSL is not fun....
- the manager
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Airwolf7 @ 29th Oct 10:13AM:
Re: [Speed Problem] Wierd Speed Issue - Test show good speed Rea
I have been trying for the last two weeks to come up with some simple way to explain this and I just have not been having any luck.
All ISPs advertise speed in bits per second. It might be kilobits or megabits, but it is always bits not bytes.
--
Reagan 2012 - Even dead he is a better choice!
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RaccoonN @ 29th Oct 11:10AM:
Re: [Speed Problem] Wierd Speed Issue - Test show good speed Rea
I want to say not true. My last internet company advertised in bytes the one I got was up to 3meg down and I usually got about 1 megabyte downloads.....
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NetFixer @ 29th Oct 01:37PM:
Re: [Speed Problem] Wierd Speed Issue - Test show good speed Rea
said by RaccoonN :
I want to say not true. My last internet company advertised in bytes the one I got was up to 3meg down and I usually got about 1 megabyte downloads.....
Would you care to name this internet company? I would like to know what ISP would do such a thing.
Whether your internet service medium is DSL, CATV, SAT, POTS, WiFi, WiMAX, WCDMA, GSM, LTE... , the transmission is a serial bitstream, and the speed of the service is naturally measured in bits per second. It has been this way since the earliest dial-up and dedicated line services were made available
--
History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid.
-- Dwight D. Eisenhower
The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.
-- Thomas Jefferson
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RaccoonN @ 29th Oct 01:51PM:
Re: [Speed Problem] Wierd Speed Issue - Test show good speed Rea
»www.rtconline.com/
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Airwolf7 @ 29th Oct 02:05PM:
Re: [Speed Problem] Wierd Speed Issue - Test show good speed Rea
Reserve Telecommunications offers High Speed Internet at up to 6 megabits per second and Platinum Edition Internet at up to 12 megabits per second.
--
Reagan 2012 - Even dead he is a better choice!
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NetFixer @ 29th Oct 02:07PM:
Re: [Speed Problem] Wierd Speed Issue - Test show good speed Rea
I just searched that site, and they are very tightlipped about what speed internet services they provide. There is not a clue offered on that site as to the speed of their standard internet service, but their platinum service does have a graphic image ad in which the term "Meg" is used to describe the speed. In that ad, they are obviously comparing themselves to Comcast and the mention of "Speeds are up to 12 Meg download and up to 2 Meg up" is a reference to 12 Mbps/2 Mbps. I see nowhere on that site where internet speed is explicitly referred to in bytes per second.
[att=1]
--
History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid.
-- Dwight D. Eisenhower
The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.
-- Thomas Jefferson
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Airwolf7 @ 29th Oct 02:10PM:
Re: [Speed Problem] Wierd Speed Issue - Test show good speed Rea
These ISPs talk about speed in bits. I could not find any that talk about speed in bytes.
»Comcast High Speed Internet FAQ »What are the actual Provisioned Speeds?
»Road Runner HSI Forum FAQ »What speeds should I be getting?
»Charter Pipeline Forum FAQ »What are the advertised speeds for Charter HSI?
»Optimum Online FAQ »What kinds of speeds should I be getting?
»Cox HSI Forum FAQ »What are the advertised speeds for Cox HSI?
»Mediacom FAQ »What are the Advertised Speeds For Mediacom Online?
»Insight BB Forum FAQ »What are typical speeds for InsightBB?
»Wide Open West Cable Modem »What are the advertised speeds for WOW?
»Earthlink HSI Cable FAQ »What are the advertised speeds for EarthLink/Time Warner?
»Verizon Online FiOS FAQ »Where can I test the speed of my FiOS service?
»MSN Forum FAQ »What are the advertised speeds for MSN?
»AOL Plus Cable Modem and ADSL Internet »What are the advertised speeds for AOL Plus DSL?
»AOL Plus Cable Modem and ADSL Internet »What's the advertised speed for AOL Cable?
--
Reagan 2012 - Even dead he is a better choice!
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Airwolf7 @ 29th Oct 02:20PM:
Re: [Speed Problem] Wierd Speed Issue - Test show good speed Rea
When I first got on the Internet this speed thing was about as confusing to me as Chinese multiplication!
It took me awhile to figure it out. I'm talking about the Internet speed thing. I still don't get that Chinese multiplication thing.
»www.youtube.com/watch?v=LbjeFPShLIc
Chinese Multiplication
Edit: I understand how Chinese multiplication works. I'm just confused about why they would do it that way.
--
Reagan 2012 - Even dead he is a better choice!
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