Spamcop blocking Cogeco mailservers again
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Dingaan @ 18th Oct 10:34PM:
Spamcop blocking Cogeco mailservers again
One again, I am having outgoing mail blocked and returned.
Basically this is what we get back:
216.221.81.28' is not a routeable IP address
What is Cogeco doing to overcome this problem?
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Asawulf @ 18th Oct 10:45PM:
Re: Spamcop blocking Cogeco mailservers again
nvm
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exseven @ 19th Oct 07:50AM:
Re: Spamcop blocking Cogeco mailservers again
Best bet is to open a ticket with the call center to show impact if nothing else.
Are you using Cogeco.ca/net or a domain hosted by Cogeco? Client or webmail to send email
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Krispy @ 19th Oct 11:36AM:
Re: Spamcop blocking Cogeco mailservers again
said by Dingaan :
What is Cogeco doing to overcome this problem?
Lots. Evaluating new content filters, evaluating routing of mail, even more emphasis on getting infected hosts cleaned up...that's in addition to occasionally tearing my hair out and cringing everytime I hear the word spamcop ;)
Seriously, it's a priority issue but it's primarily due to infected hosts relaying spam so we're focusing on clean-up as well as trying to find a balance in filtering to avoid false-positively flagging mail as spam.
--
you can lead a horse to the water but you cannot make him drink...you can put a man through school but you cannot make him think --ben harper
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anon @ 19th Oct 01:55PM:
Re: Spamcop blocking Cogeco mailservers again
It's great that cogeco is working hard to fix the problem, but that doesn't change the fact that this is unacceptable. Commercial customers have been having major problems in the past few weeks that have been keeping them from doing business. Cogeco will lose customers if they do not do something fast, at least offer an alternative (whitelist ip address? whitelist sender?) for those who are LOSING MONEY while cogeco figures out it's spam issues.
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urbanriot @ 19th Oct 02:20PM:
Re: Spamcop blocking Cogeco mailservers again
said by mojomasta :
Commercial customers have been having major problems in the past few weeks that have been keeping them from doing business.
Are you referring to just spam issues or are there other commercial account issues that you're aware of?
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anon @ 19th Oct 02:46PM:
Re: Spamcop blocking Cogeco mailservers again
Only referring to the spam issues. Digitally signed contracts not being delivered, and whatnot.
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Krispy @ 19th Oct 03:31PM:
Re: Spamcop blocking Cogeco mailservers again
said by mojomasta :
Commercial customers have been having major problems in the past few weeks that have been keeping them from doing business. Cogeco will lose customers if they do not do something fast, at least offer an alternative (whitelist ip address? whitelist sender?) for those who are LOSING MONEY while cogeco figures out it's spam issues.
If you have any suggestions on what more to do I'm all ears but we can't control spamcop's listing criteria no more then we can control remote mail administrator's choice in querying spamcop.
--
you can lead a horse to the water but you cannot make him drink...you can put a man through school but you cannot make him think --ben harper
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Dingaan @ 19th Oct 08:41PM:
Re: Spamcop blocking Cogeco mailservers again
Thanks for all the replies and the info.
My problem is just with outgoing mail using OE to certain recipients who have ISPs that must be using Spamcop. If we were still running our business, this would be intolerable.
It is good to hear that Cogeco is working hard on this problem.
But, hundreds of other ISPs must be faced with the same problem. They too must at times have users with infected computers that are broadcasting spam. Are these providers listed on Spamcop too? Or have they done a better job than Cogeco in keeping their systems working?
In short - the problem must be widespread. Others must have found solutions. Cogeco needs to catch up.
How? Maybe hire some expertise? Surely there are companies that specialize in this sort of thing?
As mentioned once before , my workaround is to use Gmail.
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Snickerdo @ 20th Oct 12:38AM:
Re: Spamcop blocking Cogeco mailservers again
said by mojomasta :
Only referring to the spam issues. Digitally signed contracts not being delivered, and whatnot.
If email is a critical component of your business' operation, you should pay someone to run your own mail servers.
--
Give a man a hooker and he'll have fun for a night. Teach a man how to hire a hooker and he'll have fun for a lifetime.
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anon @ 20th Oct 07:22AM:
Re: Spamcop blocking Cogeco mailservers again
It's not my company, I'm only doing tech support for them. But they already pay someone to host the email servers: Cogeco. They have 3 employees and 3 email addresses. I agree it would not be a bad idea to have an email solution hosted elsewhere, but the customer in question has never had this type of issue before. Yesterday afternoon they called back, again, this time they got angry on the phone, threatening to switch providers. Would you imagine that, 15 minutes later the emails started going through! It's silly that the customers need to revert to that.
Not to mention that Cogeco blocks other smtp servers on port 25 that arnt their own.
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Snickerdo @ 20th Oct 08:37AM:
Re: Spamcop blocking Cogeco mailservers again
said by mojomasta :
Not to mention that Cogeco blocks other smtp servers on port 25 that arnt their own.
Not on business accounts.
And seriously, they run a business with @cogeco.net email addresses? That's soooooo pro! :huh:
--
Give a man a hooker and he'll have fun for a night. Teach a man how to hire a hooker and he'll have fun for a lifetime.
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Asawulf @ 20th Oct 09:24AM:
Re: Spamcop blocking Cogeco mailservers again
said by mojomasta :
Yesterday afternoon they called back, again, this time they got angry on the phone, threatening to switch providers. Would you imagine that, 15 minutes later the emails started going through! It's silly that the customers need to revert to that.
I highly doubt their rant at the Call Center has anything to do with it...
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Krispy @ 20th Oct 10:45AM:
Re: Spamcop blocking Cogeco mailservers again
said by Dingaan :
But, hundreds of other ISPs must be faced with the same problem. They too must at times have users with infected computers that are broadcasting spam. Are these providers listed on Spamcop too? Or have they done a better job than Cogeco in keeping their systems working?
Other providers have had issues recently as well, it's "that time of year" for the spammers/scammers in general and we're leading up to American Thanksgiving which is always a big day for the miscreants. Also, when working with Spamcop it seems a vast majority of the issue is that spamcop spamtrap addresses are being hit so maybe the particular miscreant or botherder that has control of some of our customer's machines have more of those spamtrap addresses in their list...hard to say for sure. Then there's also the theory that sometimes an infected machine will scan it's neighbour's versus other random netblocks which could result in a particular botherder gaining more bots in Cogeco territory depending on first infected host but again...hard to say for sure.
said by Dingaan :
How? Maybe hire some expertise? Surely there are companies that specialize in this sort of thing?
There are alot of things being done and more in the works but at the end of the day the issue is on the infected host and the most we can do is point folks to our free security scanners and, if necessary, suspend connectivity but even that is sort of a game of whack-a-mole as there's no easy way to determine if the problem has really been resolved. Lastly not everyone is on-board with being temporarily suspended for security issues, I'm sure most here would agree it's necessary sometimes but alas our entire customer base are not BBR members.
Ultimately this is a problem that is evolving and getting worse, in my opinion, as we've made no changes that would increase our chances of Spamcop listing and, if anything, we're doing more to prevent it these days with anti-spam appliances we didn't have this time last year, better proactive detection (we're actioning more security incidents then we did last year) and even another body in the security dept.
I could go on but it's probably a thread better suited for the security forum plus I don't have time right now...gotta get back to fighting the good fight!
--
you can lead a horse to the water but you cannot make him drink...you can put a man through school but you cannot make him think --ben harper
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Dingaan @ 20th Oct 10:05PM:
Re: Spamcop blocking Cogeco mailservers again
Had a number of outgoing messages blocked tonight.
Quite frustrating to type a long message and have it thrown back.
I guess I will have to give up on using OE and Cogeco.
I guess next thing is to question why we would stay with Cogeco, if they are not able to provide the service we have paid for.
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JesusBeamz @ 21st Oct 11:42AM:
Re: Spamcop blocking Cogeco mailservers again
Welcome to internet in canada, enjoy your stay.
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Krispy @ 21st Oct 11:50AM:
Re: Spamcop blocking Cogeco mailservers again
FYI, current spamcop issue should be resolved shortly -- can't promise what will happen next but doing my best to minimize a re-occurrence.
said by JesusBeamz :
Welcome to internet in canada, enjoy your stay.
Yeah spam blocking is a new Canadian thing :/
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you can lead a horse to the water but you cannot make him drink...you can put a man through school but you cannot make him think --ben harper
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ancodia @ 21st Oct 01:06PM:
Re: Spamcop blocking Cogeco mailservers again
we use the filtering service from ehs (microsoft exchange hosted services). We originally used frontbridge then microsoft bought them out. however the service is just as good now as then.
Anyways, we've (they've) never been rbl'd. never in about 6 years we've been using the service.
currently it is blocking about 40,000 inbound spam mails a day for us.
Never had a virus get through either.
False positives are effectively nil.
management loves the reports and it is easy to justify the cost vs employee time saved.
well worth the $1/month/per employee it costs for the service.
You should check it out. For any business that values it's email connectivity you should seriously consider them.
Cogeco always has, and always will, be plagued with these problems. The Cogeco nerds refuse to admit defeat and outsource the email issue to people who can do it properly.
look how the Cogeco nerds fought the NNTP battle before out sourcing to people who can actually do it properly. Seems they didn't learn a valuable lesson from that experience. Typical sub-par Cogeco mba performance in action. Mind you, I suspect alot of the Cogeco people near the top are there because they've been working there the longest, not because they're properly skilled.
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urbanriot @ 21st Oct 01:52PM:
Re: Spamcop blocking Cogeco mailservers again
I send out a considerable amount of emails from my business account with Cogeco's outgoing mail server and, aside from extremely annoying and what I'd consider poorly configured keyword blocking, I don't encounter any of these other problems. Are there really that many people encountering problems? Are there bounce backs for these problems or are they server messages?
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Krispy @ 21st Oct 02:40PM:
Re: Spamcop blocking Cogeco mailservers again
said by ancodia :
we use the filtering service from ehs (microsoft exchange hosted services).
I'm not sure who or what type of business 'we' is. If you're talking about a company or less then ~million mailboxes then I'd say simple comparisons do not apply.
said by ancodia :
currently it is blocking about 40,000 inbound spam mails a day for us.
Obviously you're not providing service on the same magnitude as we probably block more than that per second (don't have time to run a report right now but doubt I've ever seen as little as 5 digits in the number).
said by ancodia :
well worth the $1/month/per employee it costs for the service.
Ah, you're talking about a business mail server...you do understand that there's differences in what paying customer demand versus what employees have to live with right?
said by ancodia :
Cogeco always has, and always will, be plagued with these problems. The Cogeco nerds refuse to admit defeat and outsource the email issue to people who can do it properly.
You guys want your mail outsourced...fine, I'll be happy to provide that feedback on up the chain, I have no problem with that but I'll say 'careful what you wish for'.
said by ancodia :
Mind you, I suspect alot of the Cogeco people near the top are there because they've been working there the longest, not because they're properly skilled.
Yup, that's why I'm still employed, because I've existed here for a while. :uhh:
--
you can lead a horse to the water but you cannot make him drink...you can put a man through school but you cannot make him think --ben harper
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jeisenberg @ 23rd Oct 11:49AM:
Re: Spamcop blocking Cogeco mailservers again
said by Krispy :
If you have any suggestions on what more to do I'm all ears but we can't control spamcop's listing criteria no more then we can control remote mail administrator's choice in querying spamcop.
This is just a suggestion. I'm not sure how feasible it is to implement...
Cogeco has the means currently to determine whether machines are infected (some of my clients have been recipients of the Cogeco security email).
Rather than blocking access to the internet in general, is it possible to block the outgoing email ports on a temporary basis, until it can be determined that the system has been corrected? This would involve throttling the outgoing email ports, and checking the content of outgoing emails to ensure they are clean. Once an appropriate interval has passed with only clean messages being sent, the throttling could be removed. And during the time when the infection still existed, Cogeco might send reminder emails and continue to display the warning screen at certain intervals.
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Krispy @ 23rd Oct 12:54PM:
Re: Spamcop blocking Cogeco mailservers again
said by jeisenberg :said by Krispy :
If you have any suggestions on what more to do I'm all ears but we can't control spamcop's listing criteria no more then we can control remote mail administrator's choice in querying spamcop.
This is just a suggestion. I'm not sure how feasible it is to implement...
Cogeco has the means currently to determine whether machines are infected (some of my clients have been recipients of the Cogeco security email).
Rather than blocking access to the internet in general, is it possible to block the outgoing email ports on a temporary basis, until it can be determined that the system has been corrected? This would involve throttling the outgoing email ports, and checking the content of outgoing emails to ensure they are clean. Once an appropriate interval has passed with only clean messages being sent, the throttling could be removed. And during the time when the infection still existed, Cogeco might send reminder emails and continue to display the warning screen at certain intervals.
We actually do this already so yes, it's possible!
--
you can lead a horse to the water but you cannot make him drink...you can put a man through school but you cannot make him think --ben harper
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Snickerdo @ 23rd Oct 12:55PM:
Re: Spamcop blocking Cogeco mailservers again
They already block outgoing Port 25 on residential connections. You can't just go blocking/throttling random ports, and by the time Cogeco would figure this out to implement counter-measures, they'll already have you in the walled garden.
--
Give a man a hooker and he'll have fun for a night. Teach a man how to hire a hooker and he'll have fun for a lifetime.
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Krispy @ 23rd Oct 01:01PM:
Re: Spamcop blocking Cogeco mailservers again
FYI 216.221.81.28 is listed again, »www.spamcop.net/w3m?action=check···21.81.28
I'm currently waiting for word back from Spamcop as they list the reason as,
System has sent mail to SpamCop spam traps in the past week (spam traps are secret, no reports or evidence are provided by SpamCop)
Now I'm loathe to criticize any RBL and I've been a staunch supporter of Spamcop for many many years but I must admit that I'm frustrated with them right now as the listing reason is 'spamtrap' with no evidence provided - this could mean a single email or 1,000,000 emails but given that the spam stats I'm seeing show no great surge I'm leaning towards less rather than more. And while I totally understand discretion is necessary in the anti-spam community the reality is our anti-spam appliance is provided by the same vendor that owns Spamcop so pretty clear that we're not evil spammers looking for intel to thwart filters.
So anyway...I'm working on it again but at this point I'm not convinced this isn't caused by an email or two ending up at a spamtrap which would be very discouraging if that were the case.
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you can lead a horse to the water but you cannot make him drink...you can put a man through school but you cannot make him think --ben harper
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Snickerdo @ 23rd Oct 01:17PM:
Re: Spamcop blocking Cogeco mailservers again
You know, if Spamcop was smart, they would offer some sort of "validation" program where they speak with an ISP's security team, evaluate their spam protection measures and equipment, and then whitelist those servers on their system so that they don't get automatically blocked (instead, maybe an email to the security team with details of what happened?), since they would know that the administration behind those servers is trustworthy and able to rectify any issues that they may bring up.
The fact that they don't do this -really- makes me have a very low opinion of Spamcop as a whole, especially with how quickly they'll blacklist an entire ISP and provide no details to justify their actions.
--
Give a man a hooker and he'll have fun for a night. Teach a man how to hire a hooker and he'll have fun for a lifetime.
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jeisenberg @ 24th Oct 02:06AM:
Re: Spamcop blocking Cogeco mailservers again
said by Krispy :
We actually do this already so yes, it's possible!
I thought Cogeco suspends the accounts of people whose systems have been infected and are causing a problem with spamming. What I was suggesting was throttling and continued monitoring, with no suspension of service. But, if I'm wrong about the suspension, then I apologize.
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jeisenberg @ 24th Oct 02:11AM:
Re: Spamcop blocking Cogeco mailservers again
I just clicked on that link, and it reports the IP as not being listed!
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Asawulf @ 24th Oct 02:14AM:
Re: Spamcop blocking Cogeco mailservers again
Usually 24 hours listing OR when Krispy can bring them to their senses lol
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