VOIP & alarm monitoring?
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cowcowcow @ 19th Oct 12:05PM:
VOIP & alarm monitoring?

One month after ditching my landline using both a ATA (Linksys) and a IP phone (Siemens), Voip.ms and Callcentric (listed to attract feedback!)... I survived through 2 power outage thanks to UPS, longest being 5 hours, at which point, UPS was not happy any more!

I am now in the process getting the alarm monitoring system back on line before the insurance company kicks a fuss. I have two options:

1. According to my alarm broker, I just pull a line from my ATA to the alarm panel. Sounds easy but they are about 10 identical wires going into the panel which is key-locked by my alarm broker. I would need to trace all the wires to be certain of which is the phone line. I will then try to cut the wire and connect a junction box where the new and old wires meet. ATA and panel is about 20 feet apart, going through floor to the basement.

2. My alarm monitoring service provider (not my broker to whom I pay my yearly subscription) apparently handles IP-monitoring. And it appears possible to enable reporting via Internet if I install a Paradox IP module to my (Paradox) panel. I am waiting to hear back from my broker, seeing that the panel is locked, even though I purchased and own all the alarm peripherals. I prefer this option as long as my monitoring service fee remains similar and the IP module cost is reasonable.

Your thought on either of these setups please. I would like to keep the cost down but I would hate to increase the frequency of false alarm due to my new setup.

Thanks in advance
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Mango @ 19th Oct 12:18PM:
Re: VOIP & alarm monitoring?

Option two would indeed be preferable.

Some alarm systems work well over VoIP and some don't. I believe there was an alarm system tech here some time back who posted about the differences between the most common models. I don't have the link at hand but I'm sure it's findable by the search.

The wire that should connect to your ATA would likely be currently connected to your demarc, that is the place at which your landline formerly entered the house. If the alarm panel is located near your demarc, perhaps it would be easy to trace.

The proper way to wire this would be ATA->Alarm panel->household wiring. This way, the alarm can "sieze" the line when it needs to communicate with your monitoring service provider. This prevents a potential intruder from simply picking up a telephone to interrupt alarm communication.

m.
--
Who is the best VoIP provider? | Which ATA should I buy? | Dial Plan Tips and Tricks
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cowcowcow @ 19th Oct 12:41PM:
Re: VOIP & alarm monitoring?

said by Mango :

The wire that should connect to your ATA would likely be currently connected to your demarc, that is the place at which your landline formerly entered the house. If the alarm panel is located near your demarc, perhaps it would be easy to trace.
House is 80 YO. The demarc is at the back of the house, with multiple wires going at all directions. Pretty shocking stuff. The panel is in the basement, roughly between my ATA and the demarc point. I can reach it with a 20ft wire. I am quite ready to ignore all existing phone wiring as it is close to impossible to sort. I am also worry about the extra length causing unnecessary interference, if I pull yet another line from my ATA to the demarc point. I briefly read somewhere about the much lower voltage travelling through a voip, causing ringing or what have you to fail.
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cowcowcow @ 19th Oct 04:05PM:
Re: VOIP & alarm monitoring?

The quotation came in. Everything looks good and fair except the monitoring fee. It will be 250% more than what I am currently paying for monitoring by phone. That will be a deal breaker for me... back to retro rewiring.
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trev @ 19th Oct 04:29PM:
Re: VOIP & alarm monitoring?

That's bizarre that it would cost more. I would think it would be cheaper to maintain the connection over IP than it would be to use a modem pool. More capacity, less hardware, etc.
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Wondering what I do? Find out at »www.digitalcon.ca
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Mango @ 19th Oct 06:45PM:
Re: VOIP & alarm monitoring?

That is indeed very strange. I wonder why they price it that way?

I remember when I looked into cell backup, the cell signal was received by another company entirely that my alarm provider outsourced to; my alarm provider did not own their own equipment. So perhaps that is the case here.

Keep us posted on your efforts to make your alarm system work, if you have the time.

m.
--
Who is the best VoIP provider? | Which ATA should I buy? | Dial Plan Tips and Tricks
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PX Eliezer @ 19th Oct 07:37PM:
Re: VOIP & alarm monitoring?

said by cowcowcow :

The quotation came in. Everything looks good and fair except the monitoring fee. It will be 250% more than what I am currently paying for monitoring by phone. That will be a deal breaker for me... back to retro rewiring.
This makes no sense and I would shop around and see if there is a better deal.

Some alarm monitoring companies are really behind the times.

I'm not denying the technical challenges here. Rather, I am saying that some alarm companies are quite ostriched on this issue.
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voiplover @ 19th Oct 07:38PM:
Re: VOIP & alarm monitoring?

All the info you need for wiring your voip line to an existing alarm panel should be found here:
»michigantelephone.mi.org/distribute.html
or a copy here:
»michigantelephone.workbench.net/

Search for RG31X
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Stewart @ 19th Oct 07:45PM:
Re: VOIP & alarm monitoring?

Search for RJ31X
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voiplover @ 19th Oct 07:46PM:
Re: VOIP & alarm monitoring?

said by cowcowcow :

The quotation came in. Everything looks good and fair except the monitoring fee. It will be 250% more than what I am currently paying for monitoring by phone. That will be a deal breaker for me... back to retro rewiring.
The IP moduals run between ~$80 and $170. The higher priced is more for commercial fire alarms...

The big problem is what you want to happen when the IP link is lost between your alarm and the central station?

Do you want them to call the authorities when the connection is lost at 2 am??? Surely your voip phone may also be down with calls going to voice mail.

They can program in a delay, an most IP modules are greate at breaking through firewalls but it's more for a backup if the call doesn't go through the voip.

Good luck and let us know.
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caseydoug @ 19th Oct 08:36PM:
Re: VOIP & alarm monitoring?

You might want to look into NextAlarm. You would need to purchase a preconfigured PAP2-T at an inflated price, but the monthly fees are less than what I was paying to my previous provider, and they offer three months free when you sign up, which makes up for some of the cost of the ATA. You still need to pull a wire from the PAP2 to the alarm panel, but if you don't want to do that, they offer wireless options.

The biggest problem with changing companies is that some make it hard for you to leave -- they won't give you the install code for your panel, even though you own it. In my case, they wouldn't give me the code, but they did come out and reset it to a code of my choice, which meant I had to pay for a service call but not a whole new panel.
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anon @ 2nd Nov 04:35AM:
msg deleted

deleted by a moderator
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cowcowcow @ 3rd Nov 07:29AM:
Re: VOIP & alarm monitoring?

Thanks everyone,

My alarm broker told me that the quotation was for "module rental" (evnthough I currently own all the existing equipment) + monitoring service. He said that if I paid about $700 up front to buy the ip module + several ip compatible sensors + installation, he could bring the monitoring fee down to about $40/year more than I am paying now.

Anyway, I have traced the wires, spotted the phone wire, cut it, reattach to my ATA line out. And it seems to be working for several hours now. When first connected, it made a fire stress call and sounded the alarm. I hope that is just a one-time glitch!
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DaveSin @ 4th Nov 06:18AM:
Re: VOIP & alarm monitoring?

said by cowcowcow :

Thanks everyone,

My alarm broker told me that the quotation was for "module rental" (evnthough I currently own all the existing equipment) + monitoring service. He said that if I paid about $700 up front to buy the ip module + several ip compatible sensors + installation, he could bring the monitoring fee down to about $40/year more than I am paying now.

Anyway, I have traced the wires, spotted the phone wire, cut it, reattach to my ATA line out. And it seems to be working for several hours now. When first connected, it made a fire stress call and sounded the alarm. I hope that is just a one-time glitch!
I'm confused about a few things:

a) Are you saying your annual cost for Alarm Monitoring is less than $40.00/yr ($3.33/month)?

b) That by simply connecting the phone line from your Alarm Panel to your ATA and using your existing VOIP provider, you are able to send alarm signals to your alarm monitoring company?

c) What ATA are you using and did you change any settings on the unit to be able to reliably send alarm signals?

d) Are you using the same line for voice? If so, what would happen if you are on the phone and there is an alarm event, will your current setup be able to drop the voice conversation and send the signal to the Alarm Monitoring Company?

e) What was that company selling you for $700, if all you had to do was cut the existing phone line and connect to your ATA? BTW, I think you could have change out your existing Alarm Panel Printed Wiring Board for a VOIP compatible one for less than US$100.00 that would allow for direct connection to an ATA (I was told by an alarm technician).

Are you planning on any type of backup for the system in case you lose your internet connection?
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cowcowcow @ 4th Nov 08:15AM:
Re: VOIP & alarm monitoring?

said by DaveSin :

a) Are you saying your annual cost for Alarm Monitoring is less than $40.00/yr ($3.33/month)?
No, I would be paying $40 more each year for IP monitoring, on top of what I am currently paying

said by DaveSin :

b) That by simply connecting the phone line from your Alarm Panel to your ATA and using your existing VOIP provider, you are able to send alarm signals to your alarm monitoring company?
Yes.

said by DaveSin :

c) What ATA are you using and did you change any settings on the unit to be able to reliably send alarm signals?
Linksys PAP2T NA. Reliability is what I am testing now. From a call-log, it appears that only a few calls are made each day to the alarm center.

said by DaveSin :

d) Are you using the same line for voice? If so, what would happen if you are on the phone and there is an alarm event, will your current setup be able to drop the voice conversation and send the signal to the Alarm Monitoring Company?
Linksys PAP2T can accommodate 2 lines, each set to a sub-account with my VOIP provider. For my setup, I am using a Siemens IP phone for my voice call. The PAP2T is attached to a backup phone and the alarm panel. I have call-group set, so all phones would ring. In an alarm event, a call can be made to the alarm monitoring service even if someone else is on a call.

said by DaveSin :

e) What was that company selling you for $700, if all you had to do was cut the existing phone line and connect to your ATA? BTW, I think you could have change out your existing Alarm Panel Printed Wiring Board for a VOIP compatible one for less than US$100.00 that would allow for direct connection to an ATA (I was told by an alarm technician).
The extra IP reporting module for my panel; replacing some sensors that apparently are incompatible with the IP module. From my research, the IP module is about $250, the rest I am not sure. Since I have the alarm system mainly to lower my insurance cost. I am just not too ready to make the jump before testing my current setup

said by DaveSin :

Are you planning on any type of backup for the system in case you lose your internet connection?
The alarm panel has its own battery backup. The cable modem, router and the PAP2T will be protected by a 800VA UPS. The Siemens will be offline, as I have a simple backup phone attached to the other line of the PAP2T. 2 mobile phones will also be used as backup.
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DaveSin @ 4th Nov 08:39AM:
Re: VOIP & alarm monitoring?

said by cowcowcow
said by DaveSin :

Are you planning on any type of backup for the system in case you lose your internet connection?[/bquote :

The alarm panel has its own battery backup. The cable modem, router and the PAP2T will be protected by a 800VA UPS. The Siemens will be offline, as I have a simple backup phone attached to the other line of the PAP2T. 2 mobile phones will also be used as backup.
Thanks for that detail response!! The last question had more to do with the total lost of internet service versus a lost of power.

I want to get rid of my POTs line all together and the only thing that is standing in the way is a reliable alternative for the alarm monitoring. I want to use VOIP which would cause the same as the land line monitoring ($108/year - Alarm Relay) and use a cell backup.

I don't want to pay for the cell backup monitoring, which would be an additional $~$12-15 per month. I was thinking of purchasing a Cell backup unit with a T-mobile Pre-paid SIM with the device, which would only be used in the event my Comcast internet connection is lost temporarily. This would not require continuous monitoring from Alarm Relay. The Cell backup units cost from $99 - $240, without SIM card.

BTW, do you know what the "special" firmware that Next Alarm calim they use on their PAP2T that makes it compatible with VOIP Alarm monitoring or is it just the standard firmware with minor changes to the PAP2T-NA settings?
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trev @ 4th Nov 12:48PM:
Re: VOIP & alarm monitoring?

said by DaveSin :

d) Are you using the same line for voice? If so, what would happen if you are on the phone and there is an alarm event, will your current setup be able to drop the voice conversation and send the signal to the Alarm Monitoring Company?
I've always wondered about this. If you notice something is wrong before your alarm does and you call 911, it would seem to be very irritating and possibly frightening if your phone line just went dead because your alarm tried to seize the line and report an event.
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Wondering what I do? Find out at »www.digitalcon.ca
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ThaiGuy @ 5th Nov 11:22AM:
Re: VOIP & alarm monitoring?

The most important thing for you to check is if your VoIP company have any form of redundancy in place. If they go down - your alarm monitoring goes down with them. They are an additional point of failure that you do not have with IP monitoring direct to the Monitoring Center.

Try to think back if you remember your VoIP service being unavailable, or if you read any reports on here about them going down.

You can use your Linksys ATA for true IP Monitoring without your VoIP provider and you certainly do not need to shell out $250 for a new IP board ;)
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»www.youralarm.com for alarm monitoring with your Linksys ATA, or »www.ouralarm.com for reasons why it won't work with your VoIP provider.
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voiplover @ 5th Nov 09:50PM:
Re: VOIP & alarm monitoring?

Take a look at »www.Alarmpath.com
It isn't monitoring, just simply forwards the alarm signal using their cell radio to their receiver then forwards the signal to any central station that you wish.

The catch is that you have to be located near a cell tower that they are using.
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