Bay Bridge cable .....

Bay Bridge cable .....
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sashwa @ 27th Oct 09:01PM:
Bay Bridge cable .....

A cable has broken loose on the eastern span of the Bay Bridge, striking several cars. The damage is in the area of the newly installed S-Curve.

»cbs5.com/
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PrntRhd @ 27th Oct 09:04PM:
Re: Bay Bridge cable .....

Glad I am off this week and don't have to commute to SF.
:o

That is half of the "repair" that was put on over Labor Day holiday. I recognized the part when I saw it on the TV news feed.
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sashwa @ 27th Oct 09:10PM:
Re: Bay Bridge cable .....

So far no injuries reported except for being shaken up. The one car I saw on the news is a mess and it's amazing that the occupants weren't hurt.
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PrntRhd @ 27th Oct 09:15PM:
Re: Bay Bridge cable .....

One injury from broken windshield glass, said to be not serious.

I am more concerned about the bridge staying open, the cracked structural piece they found on Labor Day was NOT replaced, they put this "splint" around the cracked area, now that part broke and we are back to the original problem at a minimum.
The problem area is not in the S-Curve area section itself, it is in the truss section before the S-Curve.
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sashwa @ 27th Oct 09:22PM:
Re: Bay Bridge cable .....

Thanks for the clarification.

I wonder if the high winds had anything to do with it snapping?
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PrntRhd @ 27th Oct 09:28PM:
Re: Bay Bridge cable .....

No, I think it was simply a failed fix, they put that splint onto the cracked area, pulled the cable tight, and the tensioned cable was supposed to take some of the load off the weakened area to prevent the cracked part from opening up. The splint part was not strong enough and blew apart. The cable you see on the TV pics is the cable that was pulling the splint to take the load, the metal piece you see is a section of beam that was half of the splint.

Poor engineering on someone's part. They said no one had tried this repair on a bridge before back when they installed it.
The original part that is cracked is shaped like the end of a dog's bone with a huge link pin in the end that connects to a similar link.
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PrntRhd @ 28th Oct 12:25AM:
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And the other shoe just dropped, the BAY BRIDGE WILL BE CLOSED for at least 24 hours:
"officials are shutting down the San Francisco-Oakland Bay Bridge in both directions Tuesday night to assess possible structural damage after repair work made to the bridge last month came loose. California Highway Patrol Officer Peter Van Eckhardt said the bridge will be closed for at least 24 hours."
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shinjuru @ 28th Oct 12:38AM:
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Well, as tough as this will be on commuters in/out of the city, the old cliche is appropriate here.

Better safe than sorry.
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GemSnake @ 28th Oct 12:41AM:
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Gonna call in tomorrow. No way in hell I'll be doing that commute.
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PrntRhd @ 28th Oct 01:20AM:
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You cannot imagine the forces acting on those eyebars, the Bay Bridge is unbelievably heavy and the eyebars are there to distribute loads on the main truss sections to keep them from changing shape and collapsing under regular load conditions. That type of single eyebar failure dropped a whole bridge in an incident in December 1967 over the Ohio River between W Virginia and Ohio killing 46 persons. Just do a search for "Silver Bridge Collapse". Edit, not exactly the same as the Bay Bridge but the cracks in the Bay Bridge eyebar pin area is the same type of failure.
»www.open2.net/sciencetechnologyn···ree.html
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Jtmo @ 28th Oct 01:22AM:
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Bay bridge is falling down, my fair lady.......
They better hurry up before 4000+ people fall into the bay someday soon.

The last time I felt this way about an poorly engineered roadway was back in 1989, I got off the Cypress, took the surface road down by the steel mill. The design to me said unsafe, 30 minutes later, EQ and the whole thing pancaked just like I always feared.
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Wily_One @ 28th Oct 01:33AM:
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Wow, I did not hear about this before now. I'm glad I don't have to cross the bay!
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PrntRhd @ 28th Oct 02:03AM:
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Wikipedia is already running updated information on the problem in the history of the bridge:
»en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Franci···y_Bridge
"Engineers have known the cantilever section would likely fail in a major quake for at least 30 years"
An anonymous quote but it is true.
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Gbcue @ 28th Oct 10:18AM:
Re: Bay Bridge cable .....

said by PrntRhd :

Wikipedia is already running updated information on the problem in the history of the bridge:
»en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Franci···y_Bridge
"Engineers have known the cantilever section would likely fail in a major quake for at least 30 years"
An anonymous quote but it is true.

Time for infinite $ for civil engineering.
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PrntRhd @ 28th Oct 12:00PM:
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No, time to get the span replaced. 20 years after Loma Prieta and still not fixed.

"Abolhassan Astaneh-Asl, a civil engineering professor at the University of California, Berkeley who has spent 20 years studying the Bay Bridge, called the initial crack a "warning sign" of potentially bigger safety issues with the bridge.

"The repair they were doing was really a Band-Aid," said Astaneh-Asl, who criticized Caltrans at the time for rushing to reopen the bridge. "The Band-Aid broke, in essence."

Astaneh-Asl said the failure of the repair job demonstrates the need for a longer-term solution. The span's age and design make it susceptible to collapse, especially if commercial tractor-trailers are allowed to continue using it, he said.

"I think Caltrans is putting public relations ahead of public safety," he said."

I was in South San Francisco in 1989 during the quake and we were fed a lot of information by CalTrans public relations after the Cypress Freeway collapse and during the initial SF I-280 repair:

"Double deck freeways are perfectly safe designs"
"The western approaches to the Bay Bridge held up perfectly in the quake, they are safe"
"No need to remove the Embarcadero freeway, it can be retrofitted"
After the 1989 deck collapse:
"The repair we did on the Bay Bridge is safe, motorists will not even know where the problem occurred"
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anon @ 28th Oct 01:15PM:
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anon @ 28th Oct 01:22PM:
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GemSnake @ 28th Oct 02:52PM:
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That's one memorable vacations...

»www.nbcbayarea.com/news/local-be···ml?tsp=1

Evelyn Mau and her husband got a rough start to their Bay Area vacation. The couple, who had just flown in from Canada, had no idea what hit their rental car as they drove over the Bay Bridge during Tuesday's commute.

--
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Boricua65 @ 28th Oct 05:56PM:
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said by PrntRhd :

No, time to get the span replaced. 20 years after Loma Prieta and still not fixed...

The two Browns held up the Bay Bridge replacement along with some others that had to stick their nose in it, or else the bridge would've been done by now :uhh:.
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sapo @ 28th Oct 06:48PM:
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Hopefully not public
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PrntRhd @ 29th Oct 03:33AM:
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CalTrans spokesman says the cables are actually tensioning rods that took the load off the cracked section of eyebar and they claim "vibration" from the wind caused one of the 4 rods to fail and took out the other two parts connected to it. Their fix is to replace all 4 rods and tie the parts so they won't fall if they break.

See "Caltrans Won't Talk Reopening" link from Sashwa's first link.
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bobrk @ 29th Oct 01:11PM:
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You say "vibration from the wind" like it's nothing.
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dose @ 29th Oct 01:19PM:
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I feel bad for my girlfriend who has to commute to work. She spent about 4 hours in the car yesterday :(

»511.org/baybridge/default.asp
Looks like it will be closed at least all day today as well.

I thought I left all my commuting woes back home in Boston with the Big Dig!
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PrntRhd @ 29th Oct 05:20PM:
Re: Bay Bridge cable .....

said by bobrk :

You say "vibration from the wind" like it's nothing.

I am not trying to be cruel to engineers. Nature is cruel to engineers who underestimate or ignore natural forces.

Side to side movement of a beam or an entire bridge span is also a very low frequency "vibration". Like this famous example:

»www.youtube.com/watch?v=3mclp9QmCGs

Bridges do move with traffic loads, thermal cycles, wind loading etc, and structural engineers must engineer their designs to accommodate those forces, otherwise the structures will fail.
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bobrk @ 29th Oct 05:28PM:
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Yep, I'm a mechanical engineer...
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GemSnake @ 29th Oct 05:31PM:
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I got dizzy watching that video... :(
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Gbcue @ 29th Oct 05:48PM:
Re: Bay Bridge cable .....

said by PrntRhd :

CalTrans spokesman says the cables are actually tensioning rods that took the load off the cracked section of eyebar and they claim "vibration" from the wind caused one of the 4 rods to fail and took out the other two parts connected to it. Their fix is to replace all 4 rods and tie the parts so they won't fall if they break.

See "Caltrans Won't Talk Reopening" link from Sashwa's first link.

The vibration can cause the cable to resonate.
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bobrk @ 29th Oct 06:23PM:
Re: Bay Bridge cable .....

said by Gbcue :

The vibration can cause the cable to resonate.

Fatigue is probably a bigger problem.
--
bobrk
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PrntRhd @ 30th Oct 03:08AM:
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They say the original eyebar crack did not get worse after the patch failure, and that is some good news.

The latest update is that they plan to have the tension rods and modifications installed and testing done tonight.
They are installing strain gauges on the rods this time to see what is going on with the loads on the rods.
They are using rounded nuts on the rods to keep the rods centered in the plates vs the flat ones used on the failed installation.
They are asking commuters to plan on the bridge being closed but may open it in the morning if the patch tests ok and if third party inspectors and engineers give their approval.
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PrntRhd @ 30th Oct 04:31PM:
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And they still are not done with the installation, CalTrans says they have to align the rods and other parts better.
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sashwa @ 30th Oct 04:33PM:
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You think the bridge will be open for the Monday commute?
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PrntRhd @ 30th Oct 04:41PM:
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Possibly, they still have not tensioned the rods and have not had the promised third party inspection.
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PrntRhd @ 30th Oct 05:47PM:
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And now they say it will be closed all weekend with a goal of opening Monday.
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Gbcue @ 30th Oct 05:49PM:
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»blogs.sfweekly.com/thesnitch/200···il_w.php
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PrntRhd @ 30th Oct 06:09PM:
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More funny stuff.

"we knew there were issues with the rods moving when we did the weekly inspections-except for one weekend that we didn't, and we were already designing enhancements when it broke."
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GemSnake @ 31st Oct 02:41PM:
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Caltrans gets a point for being honest.

There is no good answer to when the Bay Bridge will reopen - Caltrans simply does not know for sure.

This morning, officials reiterated that there is a good chance that Monday morning commuters will have to struggle yet again with packed BART trains and sluggish traffic due to the days-long closure of the Bay Bridge.

»www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.c···VXYORsPY
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sashwa @ 1st Nov 09:49PM:
Re: Bay Bridge cable .....

Bridge will not be open for the morning comute. They said it failed a test on the evening news. :huh:

»cbs5.com/local/bay.bridge.closur···519.html
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shinjuru @ 1st Nov 11:54PM:
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Crazy. I wonder what the effects on the entire bay area, in terms of financial costs, is going to be.
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PrntRhd @ 2nd Nov 01:30AM:
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So much for visiting a Brisbane problem account on time tomorrow AM. I will have to go via Golden Gate Bridge. I expect the trip will be 2.5 hours or more.
This type of problem with the repair is what I was noting when this first occurred, they may find the repair is not going to work and would have to have an eyebar fabricated. And they just voted for another dollar added to the toll, this is not even humorous.
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sashwa @ 2nd Nov 11:27AM:
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»www.ktvu.com/index.html

»www.ktvu.com/news/21444672/detail.html

Bay Bridge should be re-opened between 8:45 and 9:00 am this morning.
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sashwa @ 2nd Nov 11:59AM:
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And it's finally open in both directions. They are escorting cars across as I type.
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bobrk @ 2nd Nov 12:58PM:
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said by shinjuru :

Crazy. I wonder what the effects on the entire bay area, in terms of financial costs, is going to be.

Would have been worse if it fell down!
--
bobrk
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PrntRhd @ 2nd Nov 11:36PM:
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I was on the bridge at 09:03 AM this morning, I heard it might open, headed to Emeryville and sneaked over in line on W Grand.
They are now admitting to looking at alternatives to fix the problem should this fix come apart again.
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Boricua65 @ 3rd Nov 11:54AM:
Re: Bay Bridge cable .....

said by PrntRhd :

And they just voted for another dollar added to the toll, this is not even humorous.

Wha, what? When did this increase happen?

and

When will this increase start?
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anon @ 3rd Nov 01:23PM:
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deleted by a moderator
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PrntRhd @ 3rd Nov 11:20PM:
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Bay Area Toll Authority is proposing the increase to $5. They have to hold public hearings, then vote Jan 27,2010. Increases would take effect July 1, 2010.

The public hearings:
TOMORROW November 4 at 1:30 pm at the MetroCenter 101 Eighth Street, Oakland
Nov 17 at 6:30 pm at SanMateo City Hall, 120 W 20th St, San Mateo
Dec 3 at 6:30 pm at Concord Senior Center, 2727 Parkside Circle, Concord

They want to raise an additional $750 million to make the Antioch and Dumbarton Bridges safer during earthquakes. They also say fewer people are paying tolls over the last 5 years and have rising municipal bond debt to to market changes and claim rising operating expenses.

They want to enact "congestion pricing" up to $6 on certain bridges, and possibly charge $3 for car pools instead of free trips, requiring transponders in the carpool lanes..
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Boricua65 @ 4th Nov 01:03PM:
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It never ceases to amaze me during a crappy economy everybody and their mama wants to raise prices :uhh:.
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Illegal aliens have always been a problem in the United States. Ask any Indian. Robert Orben

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B52GUNR @ 4th Nov 04:55PM:
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But I'm sure it's only temporary, like all the other toll hikes are.
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wilbilt @ 4th Nov 10:09PM:
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said by B52GUNR :

But I'm sure it's only temporary, like all the other toll hikes are.

Like that sales tax hike to "rebuild the Bay Area" after the 1989 quake?

I notice that one is still with us 20 years later.
--
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B52GUNR @ 5th Nov 08:51PM:
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said by wilbilt :

said by B52GUNR :

But I'm sure it's only temporary, like all the other toll hikes are.

Like that sales tax hike to "rebuild the Bay Area" after the 1989 quake?

I notice that one is still with us 20 years later.

Exactly. Once they get their grubby paws on that money, good luck getting it back.
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GemSnake @ 9th Nov 01:22PM:
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Well, it's not cable per se, but the s-curve has claimed it's first fatality.

It's seems that all these "high-profile" crashes have taken place on the upper deck. Why is it? It curves the same way for people on the lower deck as well.
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Gbcue @ 9th Nov 04:45PM:
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said by GemSnake :

Well, it's not cable per se, but the s-curve has claimed it's first fatality.

It's seems that all these "high-profile" crashes have taken place on the upper deck. Why is it? It curves the same way for people on the lower deck as well.

I've driven it in both directions and it's just an ordinary curve to me.

For somebody who almost never drives on the Bay Bridge, it wasn't unexpected at all.

It must be weird for those who drive it every day?
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Defcon888 @ 9th Nov 01:54PM:
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I think it is because the "openness" of the upper deck allows people to drive faster, while the "enclosed" lower deck may cause people to drive a bit slower (more carefully).

Personally, I find the downhill approach eastbound to be more scary than the uphill westbound approach toward the tunnel.
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Jtmo @ 10th Nov 12:22AM:
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200 foot nose dive over the rail, poor driver.
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PrntRhd @ 10th Nov 12:43AM:
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said by Defcon888 :

Driving too fast on a curve with a tall big rig is what caused this.
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sashwa @ 10th Nov 07:10AM:
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What did I miss? I've been on the East Coast since last week vacationing.
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PrntRhd @ 10th Nov 10:32AM:
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said by sashwa :

What did I miss? I've been on the East Coast since last week vacationing.

3AM Monday a WB big rig loaded with Asian pears went off the upper deck S-curve and landed 200 feet down on YBI. The driver had been going 50 MPH when entering the curve section and CHP says the load shifted. Driver and the truck totally destroyed.
Nothing damaged on the bridge but it will cause CalTrans to redo signage and paint the sides with reflective paint.

Previous Monday at 9 AM they reopened the bridge, the repair on the eyebar has been installed in reverse and the tension rods now are aligned down the cracked bar itself and are wrapped to prevent movement.
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sashwa @ 10th Nov 10:38AM:
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Thanks. How terrible. There has sure has been a string of bad luck on the Bay Bridge lately. :(
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Boricua65 @ 10th Nov 12:31PM:
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said by sashwa :

Thanks. How terrible. There has sure has been a string of bad luck on the Bay Bridge lately. :(

Actually, I think they fracked up on that curve, besides too many (add expletive here) driving too fast. I was on the bridge for the NACA's Save Your Home Event saw what the hubub is all about. If people didn't drive soo fast this wouldn't be happening. BTW, crossing that section made me nervous (and usually I'm not) because of (insert expletive here).
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sashwa @ 10th Nov 12:33PM:
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I haven't been on the bridge since the new curve was added.
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GemSnake @ 10th Nov 12:52PM:
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I think the problem is people do not expect for the speed limit to fall by 10mph in the middle of the bridge. Don't be surprised if they lower it to 40 for the entire bridge.
--
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Defcon888 @ 10th Nov 08:47PM:
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Caltrans should post these signs throughout the entire east span!

Wily_One @ 11th Nov 03:35AM:
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said by Jtmo :

200 foot nose dive over the rail, poor driver.

No kidding.

A blurb in the newspaper said he "died instantly". Upon impact on the ground it was instant, but I think there would be a terrifying few seconds leading up to that as he fell.

And now I see that the driver's family wants to sue Caltrans. Natch.
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