no Globalive/Wind Mobile in Canada Page 7
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An_Onymous @ 6th Nov 05:29PM:
Re: no Globalive/Wind Mobile in Canada
FYI: 7-11 is selling off its stores to Quickie in Ottawa area.
»www.speakoutwireless.ca/speak/7-···closing/
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chronoss2009 @ 6th Nov 05:47PM:
Re: no Globalive/Wind Mobile in Canada
just so ya know the main reason those so called RULES about foreign ownership are there are so that US canadians dont get totally HOSED as in some yankie comes in buys up everything then moves the prices EVEN HIGHER and then what you gonna scream WAAAAA we need a CRTC like ruling to get them out of canada.
THe fact is this man knew the rules too
ya cant be that ruich and not know them
HE should look to businesses that DIDN'T whine about it like TSI and CAIP and start selling them debt and or stock perhaps for some voting stock.
HE should be trying to look to companies that are a fit too, like CAIP AND TSI that are wishing to get form the yoke of BCE
REMBER what i said about the CRTC beign dissolved
the main issue there is what replaces it the current govt has shown very little in way of consumer protection meanwhile taking rights away ( warrant less search and seizure , ISP Spy bills , Support for ACTA.....increase in police and military[AND YES i call any govt that does warrantless anything NAZI PIECES A SHIT, waves to mister geist for banning me on that issue)
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Arbalister @ 6th Nov 07:38PM:
Re: no Globalive/Wind Mobile in Canada
said by chronoss2009 :
THe fact is this man knew the rules too
ya cant be that ruich and not know them
The fact is that Globalive meets the legal definition of Canadian Ownership.
The fact is that Industry Canada confirmed that, before they ever allowed them to bid on the spectrum.
The fact is that even the CRTC ruling against them *states* that they meet the legal requirements.
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netwerk007 @ 6th Nov 11:14PM:
Re: no Globalive/Wind Mobile in Canada
whine whine whine
Go grab a blanky, go curl up in the corner and have a big cry
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GNca George @ 6th Nov 11:19PM:
Re: no Globalive/Wind Mobile in Canada
Arbalister is right on the money. Its interesting to see those who want to ignore the law, ignore the moral high ground, and ignore what is right crawl out of the woodwork proclaiming that anyone who actually cares about this cluster-fisk is 'just whining'.
Who signs your daytime paycheck? The PMO's office?
The morons are loose, run for your lives!
George
--
Tough Broadband for a Tough Crowd!
GorillaNET.ca - 10Mbits to your desk, coming soon.
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An_Onymous @ 6th Nov 11:20PM:
Re: no Globalive/Wind Mobile in Canada
>The fact is that even the CRTC ruling against them *states* that they meet the legal requirements.
I saw that too. Does CRTC have any authority to do what they do when legally GlobalLive meets the requirement?
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El Quintron @ 6th Nov 11:25PM:
Re: no Globalive/Wind Mobile in Canada
said by An_Onymous :
>The fact is that even the CRTC ruling against them *states* that they meet the legal requirements.
I saw that too. Does CRTC have any authority to do what they do when legally GlobalLive meets the requirement?
I'm beginning to wonder if the CRTC is trying to force the government's hand.
Consider it regulatory activism...
--
They vilify us, the scoundrels do, when there is only this difference, they rob the poor under the cover of law, forsooth, and we plunder the rich under the protection of our own courage.
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An_Onymous @ 7th Nov 12:05AM:
Re: no Globalive/Wind Mobile in Canada
If you look at the bigger picture, CRTC have pissed off TV viewers, internet users and cellphone customers all within a very short time frame. To me that sounds a career ending move.
Is Konrad being offered a good deal by Bell/Telus and waiting for the government to fire him and give him a retirement package instead of waiting for his end of term in 2012?
End of Mayan Calendar in 2012, coincident? ;)
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Arbalister @ 7th Nov 12:24AM:
Re: no Globalive/Wind Mobile in Canada
said by An_Onymous :
>The fact is that even the CRTC ruling against them *states* that they meet the legal requirements.
I saw that too. Does CRTC have any authority to do what they do when legally GlobalLive meets the requirement?
I don't believe they do - their decision is based not on the letter of the law, but on the opinion of the CRTC. The fact that Konrad couldn't wrap his mind around the concept of venture capitalism - that Orascom could lend out so much capital without maintaining (or wanting) a measure of control. They even cite Canwest's purchase of Alliance Atlantic, but they use it as a reason to block Globalive, when, in fact, it's an argument in favour - they allowed the Canwest purchase even though it was done almost entirely with cash from Goldman-Sachs...because, in their opinion, Goldman-Sachs lending a huge pile of cash *did not* mean that they'd exert some control over the day to day operations of Canwest. The exact opposite of the decision they made re: Orascom/Globalive.
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El Quintron @ 7th Nov 12:30AM:
Re: no Globalive/Wind Mobile in Canada
It was a voluntary miscarriage of the law.
The CRTC should have sent Telus (et al.) straight to the Cabinet as they approved the sale of the spectrum in the first place.
My opinion is that the CRTC shouldn't have heard the case in the first place but if it had to go anywhere it should have been Industry Canada not the CRTC.
--
They vilify us, the scoundrels do, when there is only this difference, they rob the poor under the cover of law, forsooth, and we plunder the rich under the protection of our own courage.
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anh2 @ 7th Nov 07:19PM:
Re: no Globalive/Wind Mobile in Canada
heh maybe they should sell portion of their company to Walmart Canada... Then we all can get cell services that we all need to be lowered price
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andyb @ 7th Nov 08:03PM:
Re: no Globalive/Wind Mobile in Canada
Cant do that either since it is amercan.Maybe a small IPO woud help in the short term.It isn't alot of money in this world.Guys on the market blow 250/500 k all the time.We only need a couple hundred k
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An_Onymous @ 7th Nov 08:17PM:
Re: no Globalive/Wind Mobile in Canada
May be PC Mobile could buy them up? ;)
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freejazz_RdJ @ 8th Nov 05:50AM:
Re: no Globalive/Wind Mobile in Canada
I'm still finding it hard to believe that Wind could meet the effective control standards. If I owned 65% of your house and 65% of your car, computer, etc. and you banked with me, worked for me, outsourced many of your operations/systems to me, you'd effectively be largely under my control if you were a company (companies don't have free thought like people). The national post article doesn't say Globalive meets the standard, just that the current status of competition warrants a change in the rules.
Having said that, the easiest solution for everyone would be to scrap the foreign ownership rules. Let freedom reign. If others who think they can do better want to come in and invest their money, let them. If they fail, their assets will be sold off for a fraction of their value (due to their non fungibility).
I am however concerned about the CRTC filing. In terms of the compatibility testing, that carriers relatively low costs and risks for the current carriers and should continue regardless of Globalive's viability. I'm also certain a reasonable security could be provided to the network providers to ensure they get paid for the network they install for Globalive. Just stopping because of all the hysteria surrounding the CRTC process is silly if the risks can be reasonably mitigated.
**The carriers seems to be saying that because they're worried wind will go under now, they don't want to incur any costs for software work (NANPA, SS7, roaming setup) and network installs (C-DNA services or ethernet services such as T1, DS3, OC3, IXC, Optical ethernet, etc.)
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El Quintron @ 8th Nov 10:25AM:
Re: no Globalive/Wind Mobile in Canada
said by freejazz_RdJ :
I'm still finding it hard to believe that Wind could meet the effective control standards. If I owned 65% of your house and 65% of your car, computer, etc. and you banked with me, worked for me, outsourced many of your operations/systems to me, you'd effectively be largely under my control if you were a company (companies don't have free thought like people). The national post article doesn't say Globalive meets the standard, just that the current status of competition warrants a change in the rules.
Having said that, the easiest solution for everyone would be to scrap the foreign ownership rules. Let freedom reign. If others who think they can do better want to come in and invest their money, let them. If they fail, their assets will be sold off for a fraction of their value (due to their non fungibility).
Mostly agreed, except for the a couple of points...
-Global/wind should have been cleared from day 1, as to not have what we're having right now. Right now, we get no competition and Orascom gets to sue the Government for spectrum dollars, leaving the taxpayer on the hook for our non-competition.
- @Selling off foreign assets.... sure if there's a *proper* competitive framework. Letter foreigners come here, build a network, flounder in a poisoned environment, and then sell off their assets to the usual suspects is not the way to do business.
- About carriers not building due to Wind going under... pretty normal reaction from business people, hopefully there's no question where to lay the blame and appropriate punitive action is taken.
--
They vilify us, the scoundrels do, when there is only this difference, they rob the poor under the cover of law, forsooth, and we plunder the rich under the protection of our own courage.
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anh2 @ 8th Nov 10:58AM:
Re: no Globalive/Wind Mobile in Canada
Guess what...if Canadian remember the contract bidding fiasco just went under litigation in Ottawa for several IT firms trying to bid for Ontario services then only to be excluded. The daring thing about the rich groups is they can create shell companies to show that the collective group meets certain government guidelines then bid for contract with government knowing full well that they would not win because someone inside already has the scoop. Then suing the government for not being truly considered in the bidding process, forcing the government to settle for several millions is a trend right now for the rich to double their ROI in 2 yrs time.
In this case, it looks like Tony Clement just opened wide for a foreigner tycoon to get even richer. How dumb can our politician be?
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El Quintron @ 8th Nov 11:10AM:
Re: no Globalive/Wind Mobile in Canada
Windmobile has a good track record as far as an operator and customer service. Let's hope Tony (Clement) gives them a chance. However if they're not allowed to operate, I would certainly rule in their favor if it came down to that.
--
They vilify us, the scoundrels do, when there is only this difference, they rob the poor under the cover of law, forsooth, and we plunder the rich under the protection of our own courage.
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Arbalister @ 8th Nov 12:18PM:
Re: no Globalive/Wind Mobile in Canada
said by freejazz_RdJ :
I'm still finding it hard to believe that Wind could meet the effective control standards. If I owned 65% of your house and 65% of your car, computer, etc. and you banked with me, worked for me, outsourced many of your operations/systems to me, you'd effectively be largely under my control if you were a company (companies don't have free thought like people). The national post article doesn't say Globalive meets the standard, just that the current status of competition warrants a change in the rules.
You're right, the Post article *doesn't* say they meet the standard. Paragraph 31 (IIRC) of the CRTC decision *does* - they then go on to say that regardless of Globalive meeting the legal requirement, they're going to refuse them, anyhow.
And *THAT* is what I have a problem with.
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El Quintron @ 8th Nov 05:39PM:
Re: no Globalive/Wind Mobile in Canada
Again that comes back to where we started WTF is the CRTC doing refusing something IC approved on day 1?
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freejazz_RdJ @ 8th Nov 08:30PM:
Re: no Globalive/Wind Mobile in Canada
Has anyone been able to clarify is the rules are different in the telecom act and the radiocommunications act? IC follows the latter, the CRTC the former. I'm not a lawyer, so I don't know if they are both based on numerical and qualitative evaluations.
It's true that Globalive had 80% cancon on the board of directors, but that isn't the sole determinant of control. SS 2.1 of the telecom act defines control as "control in any manner that results in control in fact, whether directly through the ownership of securities or indirectly through a trust, agreement or arrangement, the ownership of any body corporate or otherwise." The ownership of most of the debt, equity and other elements (Orascom is providing many services to Globalive apparently, perhaps BSS/OSS, purchasing and technical services) however means that someone non-Canadian wields great influence and control over them. That's why even though they met the numbers of Canadians on the board, the influence of the non-Canadian Orascom was the issue. Globalive satisfies the numerical control in terms of shares and board, but the elements are loom so large as to make control in fact non-canadian. A stupid standard if there ever was one, but the CRTC can't change the law. That's up to "Canada's New Government".
In terms of the failure/selloff scenario, I don't mean that we let them in and then rig the game to make them fail so we can steal their investment. I meant it in the sense of in the worst case scenario, should their business be unsustainable, either because Canada is costly or the existing players shape up, they would still have made a positive contribution to the advancement of Canadian telecom. The reason we have such a dearth of comeptitors isn't all anti-competitive tactics be the incumbents, but that few of the competitors are large enough to seriously take them on. In contrast, large companies in France (Bougyes, SFR) and the UK (Tiscali, Carphone Warehouse, Be) started telecoms businesses that were able to effectively compete with France telecom and BT. In Canada, most competitors are formed not with the backing of a big company and lots of capital, but small businesses that did only internet. As such, they lack the resources to reduce their carrier charges and increase their share of wallet. In fact, for the most part, they just feed the incumbents.
If you gets TSI + Dry Bell gets about 70-80% of your money, if you do TSI + TSI phone Bell gets even more. In contrast, Bell gets about 28% of my Primus bill. Therefore Primus not only gets to take their margins on a larger part of my bill, they're feeding the monster less money.
**(this isn't a primus endorsement. they work well for me but not so well for others)
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andyb @ 8th Nov 08:40PM:
Re: no Globalive/Wind Mobile in Canada
On the competitor stuff...Those European countries you mention also have mandated unbundled loops.Until that came into effect they were just like us.Untill we get unbridled access to the loop on cable/tel were stuck
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freejazz_RdJ @ 8th Nov 08:49PM:
Re: no Globalive/Wind Mobile in Canada
said by andyb :
On the competitor stuff...Those European countries you mention also have mandated unbundled loops.Until that came into effect they were just like us.Untill we get unbridled access to the loop on cable/tel were stuck
We do have mandated unbundled loops. At regulated costs. Cablecos here and there do not have unbundled loops because you can't physically unbundle a shared coax medium.
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andyb @ 9th Nov 10:18AM:
Re: no Globalive/Wind Mobile in Canada
We have nothing like the uk model with unbundled loops.We still have to buy from bell.BT had to split the isp from the transport unit unlike bell.And I'm pretty sure cable can be unbundled just not the same way.Maybe wrong term but I'm sure you get what I mean.
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andyb @ 9th Nov 10:20AM:
Re: no Globalive/Wind Mobile in Canada
Some more nonsence from telus blogger hennesy
»whendogsranfree.blogspot.com/200···for.html
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El Quintron @ 9th Nov 01:21PM:
Re: no Globalive/Wind Mobile in Canada
Which in turn makes them accountable to their shareholders for retail and wholesale, which makes them wholesale pricks.
Back at square one.
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anon @ 9th Nov 05:41PM:
Re: no Globalive/Wind Mobile in Canada
said by andyb :
We have nothing like the uk model with unbundled loops.We still have to buy from bell.BT had to split the isp from the transport unit unlike bell.And I'm pretty sure cable can be unbundled just not the same way.Maybe wrong term but I'm sure you get what I mean.
BT Retail is separate from BTwholesale (DSLAMs etc) and Openreach (local loop, techs, I think the phone switches too).
Doesn't stop our telecoms regulator from jacking up the wholesale ADSL prices (other ISPs and BT Retail using BTw DSLAMs) so that unbundling looks like a good idea.
It's all well and good if you're on one of the few exchanges that have one or more unbundled ISPs, but not so good if you are stuck with only BTwholesale. You can then pay loads for service, or get capped or shaped or both. At least BTwholesale themselves don't shape like a certain Canadian monopolist.
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freejazz_RdJ @ 9th Nov 10:11PM:
Re: no Globalive/Wind Mobile in Canada
The anon poster is correct, only the local loop is a separate company and even then is still wholly owned by BT. It's really just a chinese wall: »en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_wall .
However, the anon poster fails to mention that the majority of loops have access to at least 1 non-BT Wholesale option on the mainland, other than those in Hull.
Regarding the article, it's full of spin, but the fact remains that if we want foreign entities to be able to have a role in increasing competition, we need to make a change in the law. Plain and simple. But I suspect some may not want that because it would open up Bell, Telus, Rogers, etc. to do joint ventures that allow them to leverage the scale of larger operators elsewhere, like Vodafone, ATT, DT or Orange/FT.
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anon @ 10th Nov 06:38AM:
Re: no Globalive/Wind Mobile in Canada
said by freejazz_RdJ :
But I suspect some may not want that because it would open up Bell, Telus, Rogers, etc. to do joint ventures that allow them to leverage the scale of larger operators elsewhere, like Vodafone, ATT, DT or Orange/FT.
Would it, though? The TPRP proposal was to initially liberalize only companies that had no more than 10% of any telecom market. That would let in new entrants but not sell off our facilities of last resort.
It'd be the functional equivalent of the "golden share" in many other countries, where they don't need a rule like this because instead the government simply hangs on to a chunk of the incumbent and refuses to sell.
And it'd certainly be fair to all sides. The incumbents each had decades -- for the ILECs, more than a century -- to get a head start and hoover up foreign capital, which wasn't restricted until 1993.
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anon @ 10th Nov 06:38AM:
Re: no Globalive/Wind Mobile in Canada
said by freejazz_RdJ :
I'm still finding it hard to believe that Wind could meet the effective control standards. If I owned 65% of your house and 65% of your car, computer, etc. and you banked with me, worked for me, outsourced many of your operations/systems to me, you'd effectively be largely under my control if you were a company (companies don't have free thought like people).
I think you have to look at it on a case by case. Remember, it's 65% equity altogether, but a minority of the voting shares. So the equity doesn't let Orascom control because there aren't enough votes attached to it. And the loan doesn't let Orascom control because, if you read the transcript, it doesn't have nearly any levers attached to it. Outsourcing-wise, I'm not sure much of anything has been sourced to Orascom, given the call centres, techs, etc. that Globalive has been hiring in Canada. When you dive into it, all of these points of "control" seem to be mostly ways of getting profits out and not much else.
**The carriers seems to be saying that because they're worried wind will go under now, they don't want to incur any costs for software work (NANPA, SS7, roaming setup) and network installs (C-DNA services or ethernet services such as T1, DS3, OC3, IXC, Optical ethernet, etc.)
This looks to be a simple stalling tactic. The longer the carriers can prevent new entrants from entering the market (and Globalive looks to be the only one remotely ready), the more 3-year contracts they can renew at Xmas -- the real barrier to competition, if you ask me -- and the further behind the new entrants are as Canada enters the smartphone era pretty decisively.
Remember, if the incumbents hadn't convinced the CRTC to change its procedural rules on Globalive mid-stream, Globalive would have launched before Bell & Telus launched their new HSPA network, and before the 2009 Christmas season. That would have made for a rather different competitive landscape. So having the CRTC conduct a drawn-out public process, letting the carriers spin and delay, has already been a big "win" for the incumbents. Every subsequent procedural delay they can come up with plays the same purpose.
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An_Onymous @ 10th Nov 10:37AM:
Re: no Globalive/Wind Mobile in Canada
»www.theglobeandmail.com/report-o···1357474/
>Industry Minister Tony Clement is canvassing telecom industry players on the Globalive matter, as he weighs whether Ottawa should overturn a ruling that blocked the new cellphone firm from launching.
:
>But in a letter to industry players, Mr. Clement indicates he is reviewing the decision, and has asked for submissions on the matter by Nov. 18.
So it would seem Mr. Clement is taking on the initiative himself on the matter.
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El Quintron @ 10th Nov 11:06AM:
Re: no Globalive/Wind Mobile in Canada
Well its about time it was Tony's idea to reserve spectrum for new players anyways. So its up to him "resolve" this mess.
Ideally they should be allowed to launch, be given a grace period to resolve their foreign capital issues with a six month extension if needed.
Should this not go in Globalive's favour then they should be suing at the WTO.
--
They vilify us, the scoundrels do, when there is only this difference, they rob the poor under the cover of law, forsooth, and we plunder the rich under the protection of our own courage.
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shikotee @ 12th Nov 12:32AM:
Re: no Globalive/Wind Mobile in Canada
Came across this older article, and thought i would share.
"A cellphone by any other name smells like broadband"
»www.cbc.ca/technology/technology···ame.html
In the comments, some classic Goldberg....
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El Quintron @ 12th Nov 12:44AM:
Re: no Globalive/Wind Mobile in Canada
He never misses an opportunity does he?
I guess if the commentary isn't valid at least its there.
"A lie told often enough becomes the truth"
Maybe he's banking on the fact that if you hear his point often enough you'll take it up as one of your own.
--
They vilify us, the scoundrels do, when there is only this difference, they rob the poor under the cover of law, forsooth, and we plunder the rich under the protection of our own courage.
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freejazz_RdJ @ 12th Nov 01:13AM:
Re: no Globalive/Wind Mobile in Canada
Unfortunately, there's no such thing as a neutral party. Studies by ISP's are biased, studies by the ILEC/Cable are biased and studies by the Gov't or ordered by them are biased based on their policy perspective. There is no neutral study I can find anywhere that uses methodology that every party will agree is valid. So we end up with a pile of crap.
I've never seen the adjusting ARPU based on penetration rates however. It seems kinda reasonable, but even adjusting 217% to ARPU X 2.17 might be wrong if let's say 10% of the population don't have cellphones (old + babies and children). It would be more representative to grab a sample of people, take their bills, add up their total payments and their usage to get a figure.
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El Quintron @ 12th Nov 08:51AM:
Re: no Globalive/Wind Mobile in Canada
As a factual matter, Canada's cellphone penetration is low and our prices high. No amount of spinning can defend that, Goldberd's commentary is a little more than biased.
It's an attempt to distract from the real problems with our telecom by pretending there are no problems with the Canadian industry, by creating studies who are reactive and push false data, and lobbying for a continuation of the existing system, that's broken.
--
They vilify us, the scoundrels do, when there is only this difference, they rob the poor under the cover of law, forsooth, and we plunder the rich under the protection of our own courage.
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Gruesome @ 12th Nov 08:56AM:
Re: no Globalive/Wind Mobile in Canada
Could someone educate this clown a little
»bit.ly/3hvTeg
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freejazz_RdJ @ 12th Nov 10:37AM:
Re: no Globalive/Wind Mobile in Canada
I don't disagree that he has a bias, in fact he does have one. Everybody has a bias. This forum is biased. The employee at McDonald's is biased. It's a fact of life. People who comment on the broadband and wireless stories are likely those who cared to surf to DSLR or click on the article because it's a cause they care about. It doesn't mean everyone cares that much. More people in Toronto took the time to get the H1N1 vaccine in 1 day than Canadians took the time to sign an online form to dissolve the CRTC over a few months. Complaining about the quality of services here is preaching to the converted.
My interest lies more in looking at better ways to look at data to draw better conclusions. Clearly, a 200% penetration rate is impossible and it raises a lot of questions on how much each person is paying on all their subscription rather than the ARPU metric. If 10 people have 20 lines total with an ARPU of $20/line, then the per-person cost is $40. If only 5 of those 10 actually subscribe, the per-person who actually subscribes is $80. Is Golberg's math or the rogers regulatory guy's math right? It's probably slanted. But they raise interesting points, even if they are have a vested interest.
Same goes with the per-minute rates. If 1 Million minutes are used and $100,000 paid by users, you get a clear per-minute cost (if the $100K includes all the extra fees). But if I take a very specific set of features and look at a subset of plans, I can drive the cost per minute up or down for the purposes of a study.
Canada is by no means a utopia. The US has all you can eat voice and text + "unlimited" (5G on-device) data for $100 on Sprint. I'd love that. Many others also have shorter contract terms. But people are making it sound like everyone is being tied to the rack and forced to buy broadband and mobile services at high tariffs. If it were so painful, there'd be a critical mass of people out there pushing for reform of the rules (Int'l ownership, last-mile build policy, etc.). So far, it's got marginal traction. I could probably find more support for a $10BN high speed rail link that I could for a $10BN high speed internet gov't investment.
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shikotee @ 12th Nov 10:50AM:
Re: no Globalive/Wind Mobile in Canada
Man.....
Gotta love investigative journalism!!!
(*** End Sarcasm ***)
"The best measurement is minutes of use per capita."
I find it so funny that this is brought up, but he completely ignores the notion that various other countries have a system where the person who dials is paying for the call. In Canada, whether you dial or receive, you are using airtime. This is a huge game changer.
It pretty much encouraged everyone to get a cellphone (a handy thing to have for various obvious reasons), but only use it when necessary. When you dial, blab away for as long as you are willing to pay for it, while if you receive, who cares - it's not your dime!
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koreyb @ 12th Nov 10:58AM:
Re: no Globalive/Wind Mobile in Canada
The issue is Canadians are very "lets bitch, but put up with it" types. (not all.. but majority)
Change never happens cause no one is willing to do what it will take to cause change.
I look at simple things as governments.
Everyone will hate the liberals. They vote conservative.. then hate the conservatives and instead of looking at someone else.. they vote the liberals back in.. and we go through the endless non-stop circles where the same BS happens.. and people get disenchanted.
I voted green the last election, cause I was tired of the same BS happening. If more people educated themselves and took a stand, maybe something for once can get done.
Some would say throw away vote, but realistically if everyone "threw away" their vote, someone else may actually get in to create change. Not voting does not do any of this!
But that requires STOP BEING SHEEP, and we as a culture of Canadians, tend to be exactly that.
Broadband and Wireless will only change, when everyone STOPS being sheep and sends their messages with their pocket books.. The problem is where do you go? Bell and Rogers own all cell towers for the most part. Bell's towers are shared with Solo/Virgin/PC Mobile/Telus/And others CDMA) Rogers is shared with Primus/Fido/etc who are GSM)
Bell owns the copper end user network and Rogers owns the cable end user networks.
There's no breaking away... They win no matter what.
Rogers and Bell both put out BIAS studies that they paid to have done to spread propaganda to say they are GREAT, everything is perfect when 3rd party independent studies say they are over priced, under serviced, and poor quality.
In true Canadian fashion, majority will buy into the propaganda. Nothing will change, and here we are again.
The end of this is basically until we can change how Canadian's think, and act, you will not see huge turn around in how things are currently. Bell and Rogers will run the show, and use us as their puppets.
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El Quintron @ 12th Nov 11:13AM:
Re: no Globalive/Wind Mobile in Canada
Not quite, one study was conducted for purposes of scientific and or social investigation, vs. Goldberg's study that was conducted for PR purposes.
Nobody living outside of Zimbabwe or North Korea would even disputes that it totally sucks to live there. Canada (as far as its telecom sector goes) is in the same boat. The ample need to defend and explain why all of these "biased" studies rank us so low, speak volumes about our "real" position in world telecom.
edit: this was originally intendended to be a reply at Freejazz_RDB
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koreyb @ 12th Nov 11:24AM:
Re: no Globalive/Wind Mobile in Canada
Reality is studies need to be done by a 3rd independent party to be taken seriously. I REFUSE to buy into anything Rogers or Bell paid to have done...
Personally I'm getting tired of the battles.. I'm not one to give up.. But I think reality is until someone breaks way from Bell and Rogers, nothing will change.
If Wind Mobile gets going, we may finally have this... but who knows..
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El Quintron @ 12th Nov 12:15PM:
Re: no Globalive/Wind Mobile in Canada
To be honest there's no such thing as an unbiased study. However biased, all studies must be able to pass a statistical smell test.
Obviously variables can and will be omitted for political reasons but a proper investigation will sort out most of the numbers.
Peter Nowak's responses to Mark Goldberg were pretty much the scrutiny we needed.
--
They vilify us, the scoundrels do, when there is only this difference, they rob the poor under the cover of law, forsooth, and we plunder the rich under the protection of our own courage.
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shikotee @ 12th Nov 12:23PM:
Re: no Globalive/Wind Mobile in Canada
In theory, this unbiased role should be taken on by government, which in our case would be the CRTC. They should be collecting data from all the various sources, and they should be the ones asking the tough questions, for the interests of the consumer.
Unfortunately, as we all know, it does not work that way....
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El Quintron @ 12th Nov 12:27PM:
Re: no Globalive/Wind Mobile in Canada
Government of Canada:
Canadian Telecom is the Best Telecom!
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