The Dissolve The CRTC petition has 10000 sigs!
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nigrunze @ 3rd Nov 06:19PM:
The Dissolve The CRTC petition has 10000 sigs!
Congratulations mlerner. Let's hope this gets somewhere.
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AkFubar @ 3rd Nov 06:39PM:
Re: The Dissolve The CRTC petition has 10000 sigs!
+1 (offer an exclusive to Peter Nowak :) )
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anon @ 3rd Nov 06:44PM:
Re: The Dissolve The CRTC petition has 10000 sigs!
Cheers mlerner.
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mlerner @ 3rd Nov 06:45PM:
Re: The Dissolve The CRTC petition has 10000 sigs!
said by AkFubar :
+1 (offer an exclusive to Peter Nowak :) )
lmao what exclusive. I think Peter Nowak is the only one that really followed it and he still checks it occasionally, other than that there were only a few other mentions.
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XNemesis @ 3rd Nov 06:47PM:
Re: The Dissolve The CRTC petition has 10000 sigs!
As mlerner said himself a while back I believe, that he'll probably need alot more than 10,000 sigs now. Correct me if I'm mistaken.
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mlerner @ 3rd Nov 06:49PM:
Re: The Dissolve The CRTC petition has 10000 sigs!
said by XNemesis :
As mlerner said himself a while back I believe, that he'll probably need alot more than 10,000 sigs now. Correct me if I'm mistaken.
It would be nice but without a huge PR push, it's unlikely to get much bigger.
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mlerner @ 3rd Nov 07:07PM:
Re: The Dissolve The CRTC petition has 10000 sigs!
lol someone created a facebook group "Dissolving the CRTC won't save net neutrality!" »www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=151636034687
Yup cause doing nothing except saying it won't save net neutrality will work...
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HeadSpinning @ 3rd Nov 07:36PM:
Re: The Dissolve The CRTC petition has 10000 sigs!
said by nigrunze :
Congratulations mlerner. Let's hope this gets somewhere.
Be careful what you wish for.
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a1_Andy @ 3rd Nov 07:40PM:
Re: The Dissolve The CRTC petition has 10000 sigs!
said by mlerner :lol someone created a facebook group "Dissolving the CRTC won't save net neutrality!" »
www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=151636034687Yup cause doing nothing except saying it won't save net neutrality will work...
19 members, I guess he hasn't read the petition, mainly the last 3 paragraphs.
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julienvf @ 3rd Nov 08:55PM:
Re: The Dissolve The CRTC petition has 10000 sigs!
Looks like a "Kuntrad Von Fuckenstein" signed it on page 188... lol
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mlerner @ 3rd Nov 08:58PM:
Re: The Dissolve The CRTC petition has 10000 sigs!
said by julienvf :
Looks like a "Kuntrad Von Fuckenstein" signed it on page 188... lol
heh. I'll be going through every signature to weed out the invalid entries.
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shepd @ 4th Nov 09:32AM:
Re: The Dissolve The CRTC petition has 10000 sigs!
said by HeadSpinning :said by nigrunze :
Congratulations mlerner. Let's hope this gets somewhere.
Be careful what you wish for.
A Canada in which media has to compete on merit alone? Heaven forfend we try capitalism for once in the TV market. I might actually get to watch Max Headroom in this country!
And the idea that ISPs will have to roll out their own connectivity can't possibly be good for consumers. No, consumers are better off with only one wire going to their house!
Seriously, I want someone to point out something the CRTC has done that's benefited Canadians.
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El Quintron @ 4th Nov 10:23AM:
Re: The Dissolve The CRTC petition has 10000 sigs!
First point completely agreed, second point not so much.
TV is somewhat of a global commodity these days and you and I both know that people get to pick and choose exactly what TV they want legit or otherwise.
However when it comes to the second one, I'll say this: I have no issues with a second infrastructure, but when it comes to a third and fourth we're looking at a lot of wastefull duplication that could be eliminated with some good ground rules.
My house is a perfect example of this.
I have two sets of COAX, one for FTA the other for OTA, Phone wires, and ethernet all over the place. so My TV Room, computer room, Bedroom all have this insane Mess of wires because I haven't been able to properly merge my IT and TV setups.
My take? fuck TV regulation and create a local content fund. (not a locals bidding of foreign TV fund)
2 - Enforce network sharing, and neutral management of said network, or face duplication or continuation of the status que.
edit spelling and clarity
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chronoss2009 @ 4th Nov 02:19PM:
Re: The Dissolve The CRTC petition has 10000 sigs!
so they get rid of the CRTC
then the conservatives instead a having to listen to them just do what the USA wants aka copyright internet laws , ACTA like stuff, and so on. WE need an elected bunch or proportional representation of the current sitting mps on the board, its more fair and allows each elected party to say even appoint the best to it.
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AkFubar @ 4th Nov 02:34PM:
Re: The Dissolve The CRTC petition has 10000 sigs!
said by chronoss2009 :
so they get rid of the CRTC
then the conservatives instead a having to listen to them just do what the USA wants aka copyright internet laws , ACTA like stuff, and so on. WE need an elected bunch or proportional representation of the current sitting mps on the board, its more fair and allows each elected party to say even appoint the best to it.
I think you need to read what the petition says.
»dissolvethecrtc.ca/
--
"No matter where you go, there you are." - Buckaroo Banzai
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HeadSpinning @ 4th Nov 03:51PM:
Re: The Dissolve The CRTC petition has 10000 sigs!
said by shepd :said by HeadSpinning :said by nigrunze :
Congratulations mlerner. Let's hope this gets somewhere.
Be careful what you wish for.
A Canada in which media has to compete on merit alone? Heaven forfend we try capitalism for once in the TV market. I might actually get to watch Max Headroom in this country!
And the idea that ISPs will have to roll out their own connectivity can't possibly be good for consumers. No, consumers are better off with only one wire going to their house!
Seriously, I want someone to point out something the CRTC has done that's benefited Canadians.
As much as I don't like the current direction the Commission is taking, without any oversight, Bell would simply have NO wholesale available at all.
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koreyb @ 4th Nov 03:54PM:
Re: The Dissolve The CRTC petition has 10000 sigs!
I don't think anyone is suggesting complete FREE FOR ALL..
The CRTC just needs dissolved and a new BETTER un-BIAS, CANADIAN PUBLIC agency should be put in place that better controls things than what is currently going on.
The current setup is outdated and very BIAS. I would say industry Canada should have a off wing under their supervision that could handle this very very well.
I have watched the CRTC mess up almost EVERYTHING they have touched... Enough is enough... It's time for change!
The ministry of heritage should not have anything to do with BROADCASTING/internet/communications..
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El Quintron @ 4th Nov 04:35PM:
Re: The Dissolve The CRTC petition has 10000 sigs!
Technically the Ministry of Heritage is in charge of Culture, which is why they have imput in broadcasting . Hence CanCon = Culture Creation.
Which is where they come in. In reality the quasi-judicial "buffer" agency we have now is kind of a joke.
There should probably be a cultural advisory board that would promote the creation (as opposed to enforcement) of Canadian Culture
(I'm not going to step into the mindfield of what consists of CanCult)
And IC should set out to monitor the business and scientific aspects of Broadcasting/IT/Wireless.
That way there wouldn't be an obfuscation agency the government could hide behing when all this crap goes down.
--
They vilify us, the scoundrels do, when there is only this difference, they rob the poor under the cover of law, forsooth, and we plunder the rich under the protection of our own courage.
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dbsanfte @ 4th Nov 04:39PM:
Re: The Dissolve The CRTC petition has 10000 sigs!
My question is just this -- why can't the CRTC's decisions be biased towards the public? What's wrong with that?
Every decision should benefit the public somehow. Every single one.
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shepd @ 4th Nov 05:00PM:
Re: The Dissolve The CRTC petition has 10000 sigs!
said by HeadSpinning :
As much as I don't like the current direction the Commission is taking, without any oversight, Bell would simply have NO wholesale available at all.
Not sure how that would be possible unless someone granted them right-of-ways and therefore sold the keys to the city to them.
There are likely cities that did that, and they'd have to pay dearly to fix their past mistakes. Luckily, they probably only sold R-O-W for telephone, so we'd have people laying fibre instead, which would be great.
But I live in a crazy world where places compete against each other for your business because the government just tells them "no" when asked to do anything whatsoever about anything.
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mlerner @ 4th Nov 05:11PM:
Re: The Dissolve The CRTC petition has 10000 sigs!
said by dbsanfte :
My question is just this -- why can't the CRTC's decisions be biased towards the public? What's wrong with that?
Every decision should benefit the public somehow. Every single one.
That's exactly the mandate of the CRTC. Unfortunately, they're not following that mandate because politics and business are intersecting where they shouldn't.
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El Quintron @ 4th Nov 06:15PM:
Re: The Dissolve The CRTC petition has 10000 sigs!
The spirit of what you're saying is great. By the same token, one thing we should learn in dealing with the CRTC is this; they're essentially a tribunal. Much the OMB, so they're applying the law (unfavorably) but they're not making the law or breaking it.
In reality a lot of what we should be doing here, is continuing to put pressure to have them dissolved, and we should be pushing for a reform of telecom act in our favor.
--
They vilify us, the scoundrels do, when there is only this difference, they rob the poor under the cover of law, forsooth, and we plunder the rich under the protection of our own courage.
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HeadSpinning @ 4th Nov 07:42PM:
Re: The Dissolve The CRTC petition has 10000 sigs!
said by El Quintron :
In reality a lot of what we should be doing here, is continuing to put pressure to have them dissolved, and we should be pushing for a reform of telecom act in our favor.
The Telecom Act actually lays things out quite well. The problem is with the CRTC's interpretation and selective enforcement of the act - which is why decisions are under judicial appeal.
A lot of this seems to be linked to the government's policy direction given to the CRTC.
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An_Onymous @ 4th Nov 07:51PM:
Re: The Dissolve The CRTC petition has 10000 sigs!
>The Telecom Act actually lays things out quite well. The problem is with the CRTC's interpretation and selective enforcement of the act - which is why decisions are under judicial appeal.
Different part of the act can be spelled out exactly as what the intentions are and what should not be allowed. Normally, it is a good idea to leave some room for interpretations for the guys that do their job well, but in the case of the CRTC, the act can always be tighten so much that there are no rooms left for CRTC to out weasel it. It is a matter of specsmanship and weeding out the freedom.
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chronoss2009 @ 4th Nov 08:07PM:
Re: The Dissolve The CRTC petition has 10000 sigs!
said by AkFubar :said by chronoss2009 :
so they get rid of the CRTC
then the conservatives instead a having to listen to them just do what the USA wants aka copyright internet laws , ACTA like stuff, and so on. WE need an elected bunch or proportional representation of the current sitting mps on the board, its more fair and allows each elected party to say even appoint the best to it.
I think you need to read what the petition says.
»
dissolvethecrtc.ca/ "a fari and whatever policy"
yea i trust govt to do that
sorry this whole things just is retarded and its being done by retards top down up down sideways ....cant wait for the conservatives to get all the power they need to SCREW CANADA and make
CANADA DRY(tm)
"As much as I don't like the current direction the Commission is taking, without any oversight, Bell would simply have NO wholesale available at all."
exactly.....
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AkFubar @ 4th Nov 08:11PM:
Re: The Dissolve The CRTC petition has 10000 sigs!
Whatever :uhh:
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chronoss2009 @ 4th Nov 08:23PM:
Re: The Dissolve The CRTC petition has 10000 sigs!
i also find it unproductive to have to constanlty be filling out fraking paper work signing htis signing that JUST TO HAVE rights we should all be guarteed
perhaps if your 10800 people showed up at parliament and screamed a little you'd get more results
just show up with pies , don't throw any thats now an offense just have them in hand.
later donate them all to local foodbanks and wella you got the message across and helped needy people at same time.
and accomplish a hell of a lot more then sign this sign that
"sign sign everywhere a sign barking up the scenary breakin my mind , do htis don't do that can't yea read the sign"
facebook had almost 100K people , me thinks people are giving up on the process cause its not working , democracy is failing.
someone should pass a law putting copyright for everything at 12 years add all hte net neutrality rules and regulations so ISPS are dumb pipes not responsible for what goes down the pipe and forbid any lobbying in regarding it as a federal offense punishable by 10 years in prison. Also regarding thorttling or network management practices ...6 months fix it or get 250K fines per month its not fixed.
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anon @ 4th Nov 08:42PM:
msg deleted
deleted by a moderator
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El Quintron @ 5th Nov 10:32AM:
Re: The Dissolve The CRTC petition has 10000 sigs!
said by An_Onymous :
Different part of the act can be spelled out exactly as what the intentions are and what should not be allowed. Normally, it is a good idea to leave some room for interpretations for the guys that do their job well, but in the case of the CRTC, the act can always be tighten so much that there are no rooms left for CRTC to out weasel it. It is a matter of specsmanship and weeding out the freedom.
But again if you're telling the court it can only rule in a certain way you're eliminating the need for the court.
There ceases to be a need to evaluate as the answer is always X.
I have no real issue with this, as we don't even have a semblance of impartiality right now.
However this may lead us back to square one when disputes will not be able to be resolved with an existing framework and we end up with another just as easily corrupted tribunal.
--
They vilify us, the scoundrels do, when there is only this difference, they rob the poor under the cover of law, forsooth, and we plunder the rich under the protection of our own courage.
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oxfordwhite @ 5th Nov 03:14PM:
Re: The Dissolve The CRTC petition has 10000 sigs!
where is the petition.. online? if so can u post or pm me a link?
Thanks
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El Quintron @ 5th Nov 03:31PM:
Re: The Dissolve The CRTC petition has 10000 sigs!
»dissolvethecrtc.ca/
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An_Onymous @ 5th Nov 04:57PM:
Re: The Dissolve The CRTC petition has 10000 sigs!
>But again if you're telling the court it can only rule in a certain way you're eliminating the need for the court.
I'll bring up the following to reaffirm my idea of tightening out the Telecom Act to prevent it from being misused.
»www.windmobile.ca/profiles/detail/5474/
Read up from the bottom 4 of the page. "Tammy Flores" has been trying to find faults with Konrad's speech in the 2007 Telecom Summit. While it might sound like the rumbling, we can't ignore some of the things going on from Konrad's own speech.
- 2 of the Ex-CRTC ,Hank and Mary, were working for Bell/Telus and had their hands on subverting the Telecom Act.
- Konrad has been on power tripping for increasing funding and moving spectrum approval to CRTC.
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chronoss2009 @ 5th Nov 07:57PM:
Re: The Dissolve The CRTC petition has 10000 sigs!
have an elected board ..simpl and make it via some way a model mister conservative harper for your want of an elected senate
think about it if you want an elected senate you should try somehting on a smaller scale to iron out the issues
now that they have somehting they can use and try watch them worm out of it
Seriously STEAL THIS IDEA
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Vomio @ 5th Nov 09:07PM:
Re: The Dissolve The CRTC petition has 10000 sigs!
I find this whole thing pretty interesting in the light of the financial shell game that was being played in the almost takeover and privatization of Bell. Who would have ended up holding the paper in that game?
IIRC that indirect foreign ownership mess was OK'd by Industry Canada AND the CRTC and failed only once the legs got kicked out from under the table by the downturn in the worldwide economic confidence game.
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andyb @ 5th Nov 09:09PM:
Re: The Dissolve The CRTC petition has 10000 sigs!
3rd party debt holders don't have to be Canadian.Thats how that worked.
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Vomio @ 5th Nov 09:26PM:
Re: The Dissolve The CRTC petition has 10000 sigs!
said by andyb :
3rd party debt holders don't have to be Canadian.Thats how that worked.
So if Orascom Telecom Holding became Sawiris Savings and Loan........
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evil_gusgus @ 5th Nov 09:36PM:
Re: The Dissolve The CRTC petition has 10000 sigs!
Heh, Orascom also provides north korea with its GSM infrastructure :p
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chronoss2009 @ 5th Nov 09:36PM:
Re: The Dissolve The CRTC petition has 10000 sigs!
ya solved and people can happy and there new Canadian employees can get to work and spend money for christmas and canucks could get a better deal then BCE/TElus new crap and rogers as well...
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An_Onymous @ 5th Nov 09:46PM:
Re: The Dissolve The CRTC petition has 10000 sigs!
If it is good enough for North Korea, it is good enough for Kanada! :P
"North Korea is Best Korea!" »img.moonbuggy.org/north-korea-is-best-korea/
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mlerner @ 11th Nov 08:06PM:
Re: The Dissolve The CRTC petition has 10000 sigs!
BTW guys just want to update you. I've gotten into contact with someone who will assist me a bit with the petition so hopefully in a few weeks I will have some firm plans.
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oxymoron69 @ 11th Nov 09:22PM:
Re: The Dissolve The CRTC petition has 10000 sigs!
Awesome, it's great to see continued progress :D
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shikotee @ 13th Nov 07:00AM:
Re: The Dissolve The CRTC petition has 10000 sigs!
Feel free to drop some hints, or to discuss your options/thoughts.
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mlerner @ 13th Nov 07:49AM:
Re: The Dissolve The CRTC petition has 10000 sigs!
haha. Can't say quite yet exactly what will happen but there will be an announcement for sure.
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mlerner @ 13th Nov 07:55AM:
Re: The Dissolve The CRTC petition has 10000 sigs!
Semi OT ethical question: Let's say I have over 10,000 email addresses, would it be totally out of the question to use those addresses strictly for the purposes of the campaign without consent?
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Farchord @ 13th Nov 08:21AM:
Re: The Dissolve The CRTC petition has 10000 sigs!
said by mlerner :
Semi OT ethical question: Let's say I have over 10,000 email addresses, would it be totally out of the question to use those addresses strictly for the purposes of the campaign without consent?
Didn't you put a small disclaimer on the signature saying that you will use that stuff?
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mlerner @ 13th Nov 08:25AM:
Re: The Dissolve The CRTC petition has 10000 sigs!
There was an opt-in option at one point but I didn't see the need to have it and I removed it.
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Farchord @ 13th Nov 08:53AM:
Re: The Dissolve The CRTC petition has 10000 sigs!
said by mlerner :
There was an opt-in option at one point but I didn't see the need to have it and I removed it.
Well then, logic states that if you use their email to further your goal of making the CRTC better then people shouldn't technically be angry, but it's really more of a legal thing, can be dodgy.
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shikotee @ 13th Nov 08:56AM:
Re: The Dissolve The CRTC petition has 10000 sigs!
re: signature emails
It's a slippery slope, so you need to be careful.
If it is to send out information with regards to the campaign (such as to update that the goal has been reached, or to update where you are going with this), then it should be OK. Using the list to promote some other cause, no matter how similar, would not be OK.
Obviously, you need to make sure that your use of the emails is secure, so that the list is not taken for spamming purposes.
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AkFubar @ 13th Nov 09:02AM:
Re: The Dissolve The CRTC petition has 10000 sigs!
In the strictest sense using someone's email without their permission and/or without their request for a reply is technically considered unsolicited and therefore spamming.
--
If my online experience is enhanced, why are my speeds throttled??
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mlerner @ 13th Nov 09:10AM:
Re: The Dissolve The CRTC petition has 10000 sigs!
Those were my concerns but on the other hand there will most certainly be an event, it's only fair to notify everyone who took part in it.
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AkFubar @ 13th Nov 09:13AM:
Re: The Dissolve The CRTC petition has 10000 sigs!
Chances are the majority of folks won't have any problem with it after all there is nothing malicious in your intent. However out of 10,000+ there will always be a few I'm sure.
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If my online experience is enhanced, why are my speeds throttled??
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shikotee @ 13th Nov 09:14AM:
Re: The Dissolve The CRTC petition has 10000 sigs!
For true peace of mind, I would email Geist and ask him for his opinion on the legalities of this scenario.
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EUS @ 13th Nov 12:09PM:
Re: The Dissolve The CRTC petition has 10000 sigs!
said by mlerner :
Semi OT ethical question: Let's say I have over 10,000 email addresses, would it be totally out of the question to use those addresses strictly for the purposes of the campaign without consent?
There was an opt-in option at one point but I didn't see the need to have it and I removed it.
Def. not right to use the emails where users did not opt-in.
You should adhere to those wishes.
*Edit* removed my misunderstanding of the topic.
--
~ Project Hope ~
Good God! Who's manning the internet?!
When the President does it, that means it is not illegal. -- Richard Nixon
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Vomio @ 13th Nov 12:22PM:
Re: The Dissolve The CRTC petition has 10000 sigs!
A petition without some kind of verifiable list lacks credibility.
Personally when contributing to a petition I expect the information I supply to be used, but only in direct relation to that petition.
I would not have a problem with the info going to the recipient Minister, but if it is circulated elsewhere or to other groups I would have a concern.
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EUS @ 13th Nov 12:30PM:
Re: The Dissolve The CRTC petition has 10000 sigs!
said by Vomio :
Personally when contributing to a petition I expect the information I supply to be used, but only in direct relation to that petition.
"Personally" is the key word here.
The fact is, at the time I signed I did not opt-in for the mass mailing.
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mlerner @ 13th Nov 12:48PM:
Re: The Dissolve The CRTC petition has 10000 sigs!
said by EUS :said by Vomio :
Personally when contributing to a petition I expect the information I supply to be used, but only in direct relation to that petition.
"Personally" is the key word here.
The fact is, at the time I signed I did not opt-in.
Had I known that afterwards, the opt-in was to be removed, and all info was to be sent out, regardles of what I agreed to at the time, I would not have participated at all.
The opt in was designed in the software specially and only for email updates on the campaign. This is NOT an opt-in for the submission of the petition, by signing the petition and verifying your signature via email you agreed that the information could be handed over to the recipient.
Given the responses and legal obligations I would say given there is no longer an opt-in I am not able to use these email addresses in a mass mailing and that is the only thing the opt in covered.
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EUS @ 13th Nov 12:56PM:
Re: The Dissolve The CRTC petition has 10000 sigs!
Sorry, I misunderstood. After reflecting a bit, you are absolutely correct, I did sign to have the petition sent, and given you will not mass mail, there is no problem on my end.
It's too bad that you do not have a way to verify those that did opt-in.
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mlerner @ 13th Nov 01:02PM:
Re: The Dissolve The CRTC petition has 10000 sigs!
Well what I could do is create a page to opt-in for updates. It would mean everyone who wanted it would have to opt-in but it would be a good compromise.
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Omr @ 13th Nov 01:27PM:
Re: The Dissolve The CRTC petition has 10000 sigs!
I think it is okay to respond and communicate using those emails because people didn't just stumble onto the Petition and think why not, they made a conscious decision and followed through.
Now there is a difference on when to mail and when it becomes spam. So long as it is on topic and is an update as to what is going on it is fine. But if things don't stay on point and you start pulling off topic agendas in an email then it is spam ... as you can see a fine line.
Now I think ultimately what you can do is send a final email claiming of reaching the goal of 10K about 3weeks ago, what comes next and communicate this is the final email on behalf of the petition. In that email remind us of the website to keep updated, and let us know of the mailing list we can opt in to get further emails.
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mlerner @ 13th Nov 01:38PM:
Re: The Dissolve The CRTC petition has 10000 sigs!
Excellent idea! I don't think one email will hurt either, there are only about 3,000 on the facebook group so it will give me a chance to communicate with all of the people who signed the petition.
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XNemesis @ 13th Nov 02:18PM:
Re: The Dissolve The CRTC petition has 10000 sigs!
If there is going to be some kind of public rally behind this, make sure to schedule it at a good time for people to make it there long distance and possibly far enough in advance so we can book off work to come if possible.
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mlerner @ 13th Nov 02:19PM:
Re: The Dissolve The CRTC petition has 10000 sigs!
There wasn't too much interest in a rally so there won't be anything of that scale.
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MaynardKrebs @ 13th Nov 04:43PM:
Re: The Dissolve The CRTC petition has 10000 sigs!
said by mlerner :
Those were my concerns but on the other hand there will most certainly be an event, it's only fair to notify everyone who took part in it.
I'm sure they won't mind you contacting them about this, especially if there's beer and food involved. ;-)
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shikotee @ 13th Nov 05:05PM:
Re: The Dissolve The CRTC petition has 10000 sigs!
As mentioned, so long as you are not using the emails for some other cause, you should be OK.
This reminds me of the concerns that Jesse brought up during one of the Copyright meetings in Toronto. I don't recall who the organizer was, but they used the email list for that cause to send out information regarding a secondary cause (Palestine, I think). People were cheesed!!!
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mlerner @ 13th Nov 07:43PM:
Re: The Dissolve The CRTC petition has 10000 sigs!
said by MaynardKrebs :said by mlerner :
Those were my concerns but on the other hand there will most certainly be an event, it's only fair to notify everyone who took part in it.
I'm sure they won't mind you contacting them about this, especially if there's beer and food involved. ;-)
lmao. I don't think I actually said there would be a party. :p Although if someone came up with the money..
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