Bell Network Management

Bell Network Management
Links: home · search · speed test · login · more ·

Links: Reply New Topic
Forums » Canadian » TekSavvy » Bell Network Management
page: 1 · 2 · 3
evil_gusgus @ 5th Nov 09:02PM:
Bell Network Management

»internet.bell.ca/index.cfm?metho···id=12119

"The current upload/download rate speeds only for P2P file-sharing usage are gradually decreased at the beginning of the peak period (from full speed down to 512 kbps at 4:30 p.m. and then down to 256 kbps at 6:00 p.m.) and then gradually increased towards the end of the peak period (up from 256 kbps to 512 kbps at 1:00 a.m. and then up to full speed at 2:00 a.m.)"
reply

HiVolt @ 5th Nov 09:12PM:
Re: Bell Network Management

Thank god for Tomato/MLPPP!

Buck Fell!
reply

Riplin @ 5th Nov 09:15PM:
Re: Bell Network Management

said by HiVolt :

Thank god for Tomato/MLPPP!

Buck Fell!

and alternatives to p2p dl'ing

ditto on the buck fell
reply

HiVolt @ 5th Nov 09:18PM:
Re: Bell Network Management

Heh, this should be the tagline for Tomato/MLPPP

"Bucking Fell since April '08"
--
1-for-October. (1-7-4)
And now, back to your regularly scheduled losing.
reply

Lewism8 @ 5th Nov 09:32PM:
Re: Bell Network Management

Funny they don't mention VoIP in real time services.
reply

evil_gusgus @ 5th Nov 09:38PM:
Re: Bell Network Management

said by Lewism8 :

Funny they don't mention VoIP in real time services.

Or Skype
reply

HiVolt @ 5th Nov 09:43PM:
Re: Bell Network Management

said by Lewism8 :

Funny they don't mention VoIP in real time services.

Or that when P2P is being throttled, so is everything else at the same time.
--
1-for-October. (1-7-4)
And now, back to your regularly scheduled losing.
reply

An_Onymous @ 5th Nov 09:55PM:
Re: Bell Network Management

On the same URL:

>Is Bell Internet DSL access shared?
>No. Your Internet access is not shared with any other Bell Internet customer.
:
>Is Bell allowed to do this?
>Bell has a responsibility to maximize the ability for all customers to use and enjoy their Bell Internet service and a responsibility to deliver bandwidth fairly to its customers.

If DSL is not shared, then how the heck do you "maximize the ability for all customers to use and enjoy their Bell Internet service" by throttling?

P.S. For the humour impaired, that's a statement, not a question.
reply

evil_gusgus @ 5th Nov 10:07PM:
Re: Bell Network Management

edit: my bad 256kbps = 32kBps
reply

Riplin @ 5th Nov 10:08PM:
Re: Bell Network Management

bell sheeple's math skills aren't the greatest
reply

GNca George @ 5th Nov 10:26PM:
Re: Bell Network Management

said by evil_gusgus :

I find the worst part is them saying P2P is throttled to 256kbps

You've lost me. Isn't that about right?
--
Tough Broadband for a Tough Crowd!
GorillaNET.ca - 10Mbits to your desk, coming soon.
reply

Riplin @ 5th Nov 10:30PM:
Re: Bell Network Management

believe he's refrring to them using kilobits instead of bytes which makes it look like a higher number to the sheeple but they still have no clue anyway
reply

evil_gusgus @ 5th Nov 10:34PM:
Re: Bell Network Management

said by Riplin :

believe he's refrring to them using kilobits instead of bytes which makes it look like a higher number to the sheeple but they still have no clue anyway

that was my bad
reply

An_Onymous @ 5th Nov 10:38PM:
Re: Bell Network Management

FYI: Telecom data transfer rates have always been measured in bits per second.
reply

Vomio @ 5th Nov 10:57PM:
Re: Bell Network Management

said by An_Onymous :

FYI: Telecom data transfer rates have always been measured in bits per second.

Jean-Maurice-Amile Baudot says ...........
reply

julienvf @ 5th Nov 11:23PM:
Re: Bell Network Management

What I find surprising is that they testify it's been up since october 2007 when they've negated it in the past. This webpage appears today when there's already a class action in Québec against them for throttling in that period of time! This is some serious kind of evidence against Bell.. I'm printing the page in pdf and follow it to that law office right now in case they haven't got it or Bell decides to change it! lol
reply

bgw @ 5th Nov 11:27PM:
Re: Bell Network Management

Well, lets just check out Comcast's new technique! See: »www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/new···-running

Can't wait for Bell to start imposing this on us!
reply

chronoss2009 @ 6th Nov 12:00AM:
Re: Bell Network Management

WRONG
if your using p2p applications in any way that is public the 1st poster is corrent

if you encrypt your traffic and DO not during the traffic shape time do any public non encrypted traffic, you can or may not be traffic shaped because otherwise if encrypted they cannot know what your up too and thus discriminate less. Most SSL is business at least for now, and BHELL dont need them to start also whining.

hten when everyone is using encrypted traffic the next phase of the evil empire begins.....tune in next month for the NEW IMPROVED BILL C61 , brought to you by your CONserv.a.republican friends
reply

evil_gusgus @ 6th Nov 03:50AM:
Re: Bell Network Management

I force encryption on my torrents and Ive monitored my usage while on skype and it will get stuck at 32kBps sometimes. That happens even when I havent been using torrents and have a different ip.
reply

AkFubar @ 6th Nov 04:30AM:
Re: Bell Network Management

lol how deliciously ironic. Improving customer experience by slowing down downloads. :D
--
"No matter where you go, there you are." - Buckaroo Banzai
reply

anon @ 6th Nov 06:51AM:
Re: Bell Network Management

Does Teksavvy's website still make no mention of throttling?

I find it kind of dishonest how they do not make any mention of it and haven't throughout this whole time.

I imagine that leads some people to sign up thinking they are getting away from Bell's throttle and after they are practically locked in with Teksavvy then out comes the mlppp offer for "just" 4$ more.
reply

oxymoron69 @ 6th Nov 07:42AM:
Re: Bell Network Management

...Yeah, why isn't it detailed anywhere on the residential DSL sales page that: "Your service WILL be throttled down to X$speeds during these hours if you choose to make use of ANY protocols which the owner of your last mile deigns 'bad'."

I was quite surprised to see that you guys still only refer to the static IP option for $4 rather than flat out advertising the fact that you have an addon feature available to defeat the throttle (MLPPP) along with binary NNTP access w/200 day retention for an awesome $4/month(since the page was changed to mention the wrt54GL and tomato, but no mention of why a customer would want that particular 'special' piece of kit).

Not that I'm complaining, but when I explain the service to some folks that're currently with Bell and tell them how we can avoid the nightly bullISH they want to see a shiny webpage explaining how it works and why TSI is better than Bell.

Seriously, would now not be an appropriate time to further distance TSI from Bell as much as possible?

Make your online offerings look different because they are!
reply

Croaker @ 6th Nov 10:00AM:
Re: Bell Network Management

That's rich coming from an AC!
reply

DabberDan @ 6th Nov 10:52AM:
Re: Bell Network Management

quote:
Are other ISPs doing the same?

Yes. Other Internet Service Providers (ISPs) in Canada are implementing similar solutions to continue to maintain adequate service levels.

Yeah, right... If it wasn't for Bell, TSI wouldn't have throttling... jeeze.

quote:
What are peer-to-peer (P2P) file-sharing applications?

uTorrent wasn't on the list, yay! LOL

quote:
Are there other applications that could be impacted by Bell’s traffic management measures?

If you're using an application/protocol during peak periods, such as encrypted FTP and find that it cannot attain full speed, please first ensure that you are using the standard port assigned for the application/protocol in question (as per the IANA: »www.iana.org/assignments/port-numbers).

So much for security by obscurity...
reply

anon @ 6th Nov 11:53AM:
Re: Bell Network Management

So I browsed Teksavvy's website and there was no warning of throttling or anything. So much for being honest.

Bell notifies their customers of throttling now and Teksavvy doesn't.

that is rich!

Dick Chisholm
reply

Oinktastic @ 6th Nov 11:11AM:
Re: Bell Network Management

said by DabberDan :

quote:
Are other ISPs doing the same?

Yes. Other Internet Service Providers (ISPs) in Canada are implementing similar solutions to continue to maintain adequate service levels.

Yeah, right... If it wasn't for Bell, TSI wouldn't have throttling... jeeze.

I doubt TSI in Bell's place would implement a system-wide arbitrarily and cripplingly low throttle that was solely time-based and not actual congestion-based, while neglecting to upgrade those 'congested' portions of the network.

They also forgot to mention that those ISPs who currently use throttling are mostly WISPs who are severely limited by their technologies and are fighting to get internet out to people who Bhell is ignoring.
reply

Riplin @ 6th Nov 11:11AM:
Re: Bell Network Management

said by An_Onymous :

FYI: Telecom data transfer rates have always been measured in bits per second.

Makes no difference to the sheeple, they only understand fast and slow. The numbers mean nothing to them
reply

El Quintron @ 6th Nov 11:20AM:
Re: Bell Network Management

More like ABMT (Anonymous Bell Marketing Troll)

:p
reply

HiVolt @ 6th Nov 12:04PM:
Re: Bell Network Management

said by HidingIt4Now :

So I browsed Teksavvy's website and there was no warning of throttling or anything. So much for being honest.

Bell notifies their customers of throttling now and Teksavvy doesn't.

that is rich!

Dick Chisholm

Pardon me, Dick, but nowhere does Bell say on their advertising, or on their website where you go to view and purchase any of their Internet packages, that there is any sort of traffic shaping going on.

It's buried in some troubleshooting page.

So to bluntly say that "Bell notifies their customers of throttling", is a lie.
--
1-for-October. (1-7-4)
And now, back to your regularly scheduled losing.
reply

Omr @ 6th Nov 12:12PM:
Re: Bell Network Management

Well from a mere technicality point of view ... TSI doesn't throttle, and under the framework doesn't have to notify, because they are being throttled not the other way around which is the stipulation for making it public under the framework.

With all that said, I think all 3rd parties should make it known on the page that Bell throttles and give a link or contact for a prospective client to file a complaint/ petition/ etc... This way we can get people to lodge complaints accordingly to the framework.
reply

Cloneman @ 6th Nov 12:34PM:
Re: Bell Network Management

When I wasn't on mlppp my download on http sites that were not using port 80 were throttled,

and my torrents over VPN were also throttled.

WHy hasn't anyone brought this up as an invalid ITMP?
reply

shubjero @ 6th Nov 12:36PM:
Re: Bell Network Management

Cloneman do you have proof of such claims?
reply

El Quintron @ 6th Nov 01:18PM:
Re: Bell Network Management

Well "Dick" Bell actually does all the throttling, so the disclosure is technically up to Bell.
reply

AlexandreG @ 7th Nov 12:56PM:
Re: Bell Network Management

I know most of you won't like me... But... In most cases, all these p2p protocols are used for illegal downloads of music and movies...

I mean... you just can't complain that a compagny blocks or slows down illegal activities....

With that said, I agree that, in some cases, there is very useful things you can do with p2p, especially bit torrent! Very legal stuff too :P

But... Correct me if i'm wrong, but most people complaining about this are already using it for illegal stuff like I said...

Maybe i'm wrong!... But I never, but really NEVER had the idea of installing any kind of p2p software... and I never had any need for this!...
reply

anon @ 7th Nov 01:37PM:
msg deleted

deleted by a moderator
reply

AkFubar @ 7th Nov 01:58PM:
Re: Bell Network Management

Consider yourself corrected AlexandreG. Downloading via P2P is not illegal in Canada. You are hearing propaganda from Bell, Telus and Rogers to justify throttling because they do not wish to upgrade their networks to handle normal traffic volumes. :)
--
"No matter where you go, there you are." - Buckaroo Banzai
reply

AlexandreG @ 7th Nov 02:15PM:
Re: Bell Network Management

Well, AkFubar, I think you have a point. The point of saying that they are not upgrading their network to handle enough traffic.

With that said, p2p downloads are not really illegal in canada, you are right... But still, making the files available on the network is illegal and most people do (and they don't even know it)

And, you know... I make music, and I have made money from the music/multimedia industry, and even if it isn't really illegal in canada, I am still against it! I think it should be illegal! (wow... I said that... i guess everyone here will be throwing stuff at me)

All the DRMs stuff that are a real pain for legal customers are caused by all the guys like you who don't want to pay for their music, or anything else.

All the people who do that are often having more than 1 or 2000 songs and sometimes as much tv shows and movies... And most of there guys do listen to about 5% of their songs...

It is not illegal in canada yet... don't know why...

But to do this, or to go in a store and steal a cd... WHAT IS THE DIFFERENCE? Ah yeah... in the first case you are alone in your basement... there is no risks... you can't be caught...

And, as a computer tech, most problems I have to fix are caused by p2p software and people that are downloading stuff with them!....

I am just tired of this... If you like something. BUY it! End of the story... I just hope that it will be completly illegal someday... At least as much as stealing in a store.
reply

vintagewino @ 7th Nov 02:38PM:
Re: Bell Network Management

said by AlexandreG :

All the people who do that are often having more than 1 or 2000 songs and sometimes as much tv shows and movies... And most of there guys do listen to about 5% of their songs...

It is not illegal in canada yet... don't know why...

I am just tired of this... If you like something. BUY it! End of the story... I just hope that it will be completly illegal someday... At least as much as stealing in a store.

The mainstay of this in Canada is that many years ago, blank media (cassettes) had a tariff placed on them to "compensate" artists for private copying. Once the cassette tape died, this naturally got transferred to CD. Virtually the full cost of the CD today is the copy tax.

I have customers that order THOUSANDS of blank CD's every month. Each and every CD has the copy tax on it. NONE of these will EVER see as much as much as a single note of music on them. Where is THAT FAIR??

»arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news···-tax.ars

Now, does that money taken under false pretenses go to the "artists" whose works are NOT being copied, to the IAA's or just into government general coffers?
reply

AlexandreG @ 7th Nov 02:43PM:
Re: Bell Network Management

Vintagewino, I totally agree with you on this one.

Even if I am completly against all this file sharing, I am also against DRMs because they punish honest and legal customers and do no bad to illegal downloaders...

I know about that copy tax.. and I'm sure that nothing goes to the artists... It's probably all in the pockets of governements and big labels like sony or EMI...
reply

pnjunction @ 7th Nov 02:50PM:
Re: Bell Network Management

said by vintagewino :

I have customers that order THOUSANDS of blank CD's every month. Each and every CD has the copy tax on it. NONE of these will EVER see as much as much as a single note of music on them. Where is THAT FAIR?

Those tariffs on CDs and DVDs are disgusting and shameful. Probably the most obvious example that our government serves corporations.

Next thing they're going to realize that optical media has fallen out of favour compared to flash and hard drives and try to put tariffs on those.

At that point I'd be ready to protest in the streets.
reply

An_Onymous @ 7th Nov 03:52PM:
Re: Bell Network Management

Copyright is the social contract of allowing the "creator" to have exclusive distribution right to "art" in exchange of it being available to public domain after a reasonably amount of time.

Copyright extension is in violation of that spirits by preventing them to ever appear in public domain. DRM is bypassing the obligation of releasing copyright material after the term expires as it prevents the public from accessing the work FOREVER. ATCA is making the act of breaking DRM illegal.

So technically copyright extensions, DRM and ATCA are STEALING from public.
reply

An_Onymous @ 7th Nov 03:54PM:
Re: Bell Network Management

Oops. I meant ACTA not ATCA...
reply

Croaker @ 7th Nov 03:56PM:
Re: Bell Network Management

said by AlexandreG :

I mean... you just can't complain that a compagny blocks or slows down illegal activities....

I'm sorry, when did we privatize law enforcement? Who made Bell judge, jury, and executioner!?

I don't need or want the private sector to meddle in the affairs of citizens.
reply

Bicephale @ 7th Nov 04:05PM:
Re: Bell Network Management

The abuse of the past has set in motion an institutional
abuse for everyone's future. I hope the abusers enjoy!!

:(
reply

An_Onymous @ 7th Nov 04:10PM:
Re: Bell Network Management

People who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones. ;)

Bell is hardly the law abiding model corporate citizen you should trust to patrol for alleged copyright violation activities.

Bell is not the government nor have the legal authority to violate privacy, perform illegal searches and the roles of judge/jury and executioner.
reply

Croaker @ 7th Nov 04:12PM:
Re: Bell Network Management

said by AlexandreG :

[...]
With that said, p2p downloads are not really illegal in canada, you are right... But still, making the files available on the network is illegal and most people do (and they don't even know it)
[...]
I think it should be illegal! (wow... I said that... i guess everyone here will be throwing stuff at me)
[...]
All the people who do that are often having more than 1 or 2000 songs and sometimes as much tv shows and movies... And most of there guys do listen to about 5% of their songs...
[...]
I am just tired of this... If you like something. BUY it! End of the story... I just hope that it will be completly illegal someday... At least as much as stealing in a store.

Fine. You feel it should be illegal. I get that. Anything else you wish to make illegal while we're at it?

How about using VoIP from someone other than Bell or Rogers? I think that you should only be allowed to use the VoIP services as offered from your ISP. I also think gun and car manufacturers should be held responsible for the crimes their products are involved in.

You're all over the place and have little understanding of the (our - Canadian) copyright act. You're mixing copyright laws from different countries and somehow think our law is wrong. I don't know what else to say. While I personally feel no copyright term should last more than seven years I have no problem complying with our statute as written.
reply

Bicephale @ 7th Nov 04:15PM:
Re: Bell Network Management

Sorry if your house of glass is now cracking, mister An_Onymous!

:p
reply

An_Onymous @ 7th Nov 04:26PM:
Re: Bell Network Management

>I just hope that it will be completly illegal someday... At least as much as stealing in a store.

The punishment should only be as light as stealing a ~$20 CD from a store then. So you could be stealing ~200 CD from a store and still falls below the $5000 mark.

»paulschreiber.com/blog/2005/09/1···lifting/
reply

AlexandreG @ 7th Nov 05:26PM:
Re: Bell Network Management

Right, I might be a little bit overreacting there, but what I do hate is that:

Because of abusers of p2p, people are now used to crappy sounding audio and they don't care... I, as an audiophile, think the quality of most mp3 found on p2p networks is HORRIBLE.
The problem is, with all that, the cd will disappear someday... Now, it isn't a big deal if some full quality audio is available on the internet.

But because of abusers again, the big crappy compagnies like SonyBMG or EMI tried to put DRMs on AudioCDs. What this means is that we, people who buy music and love good quality audio, can't do what we want with the music we pay for. (and by what we want I mean, extract, put on portable devices.... )
And this stuff doesn't do a thing to p2p addicts! They will find ways to extract the audio, and even if the quality is bad, they don't care!!

So in the end, all the "illegal" downloaders are downloading the music, and we, people who buy and love good quality music, are punished for YOUR ACTS.

I think the big compagnies realised that and stopped all this DRM crap... The problem is that I see what's happening with the HDCP and blue-ray DRMs... And I fear it could happend to audio too!

So, in the end, what I hate is that people like me are punished because of p2p users... Now, I understand that bell should not throttle the internet. They are a service provider, they shouldn't control everything...

You could say that this is not the file sharing people fault and this is the decisions of all these big crappy compagnies... You may be right! But if there was not this many illegal downloads , I don't think that they would think about DRM...

So... In the end, I guess I am more agains't DRMs than p2p :D
reply

AkFubar @ 7th Nov 05:53PM:
Re: Bell Network Management

Meh...Most young people have seriously impaired hearing from listening to mp3 players with the volume up too high or by having honkin big boomin speakers in their cars with the bass turned way up so I don't think they would notice the difference in sound quality.
--
"No matter where you go, there you are." - Buckaroo Banzai
reply

AlexandreG @ 7th Nov 05:58PM:
Re: Bell Network Management

said by AkFubar :

Meh...Most young people have seriously impaired hearing from listening to mp3 players with the volume up too high or by having honkin big boomin speakers in their cars with the bass turned way up so I don't think they would notice the difference in sound quality.

I know... But I do :(...
reply

Abattoir @ 7th Nov 09:08PM:
Re: Bell Network Management

said by AkFubar :

Consider yourself corrected AlexandreG. Downloading via P2P is not illegal in Canada. You are hearing propaganda from Bell, Telus and Rogers to justify throttling because they do not wish to upgrade their networks to handle normal traffic volumes. :)

Allow me to correct your correction, AkFubar. Downloading content without permission is illegal in Canada. It is an urban myth, happily propagated by CRIA and others, that such activities are legal in Canada. No-one has been successfully sued for it in Canada, but that is mostly a political decision so they can push for stricter copyright laws.

If you have a source that contradicts me, please feel free to provide it. I don't think you will be able to find one.
reply

the cerberus @ 7th Nov 09:40PM:
Re: Bell Network Management

said by Abattoir :

?

P2P is not illegal. P2P does not have to do with copyright infringement!! wow(world of warcraft) updates use p2p. vuse uses p2p. linux distros use p2p. you cannot say any protocol is bad. all protocols can be used to download non/copyright material. why punish the protocol?
reply

Vomio @ 7th Nov 11:04PM:
Re: Bell Network Management

I feel your pain over the quality of what is considered music these days.
I also remember when equipment specs really meant something.
But one must remember that some studies have shown that the P2P downloaders are also the largest purchasers of legitimately acquired music.
They are the last and only hope.
I can't reference the studies right now, but some Googling will probably turn them up. It is sad that there is a generation that doesn't pay the artists appropriately for the music they consume, but the record companies before them enslaved most artists and put them in eternal debt. For the independents today's distributions methods may hold more financial promise than what has gone before.
Now as to the quality of sound you should learn that the measure of good bass is the looseness of the trim on your Honda.
Me I scour flea markets for eight tracks they suit my car perfectly.

reply

evil_gusgus @ 8th Nov 03:39AM:
Re: Bell Network Management

What would be the point in making P2P illegal? All those people would just go somewhere else to get those files (rapidshare, megaupload, etc.). On top of that, anyone who uses skype would be fucked. One reason P2P is so useful is that if your a company trying to distribute a large file you use a friction of the bandwidth usage you would normally use.
reply

AkFubar @ 8th Nov 04:44AM:
Re: Bell Network Management

said by Abattoir :

Well apparently it depends:

»www.michaelgeist.ca/content/view/4038/159/
--
"No matter where you go, there you are." - Buckaroo Banzai
reply

AlexandreG @ 8th Nov 05:45PM:
Re: Bell Network Management

Ok... sorry... I will say it in another way... My bad...

Don't make p2p illegal... Make illgeal downloading... illegal :D

You understand me... I wrote enough about it...

It just causes more bad to legit people and dosen't harm illegal downloaders...
reply

Abattoir @ 8th Nov 07:09PM:
Re: Bell Network Management

said by the cerberus :

?

P2P is not illegal. P2P does not have to do with copyright infringement!! wow(world of warcraft) updates use p2p. vuse uses p2p. linux distros use p2p. you cannot say any protocol is bad. all protocols can be used to download non/copyright material. why punish the protocol?

Of course P2P is not illegal. It is just a protocol, a method of transferring data. Downloading Season 3 of Grey's Anatomy via a torrent file on TVTorrents.com, however, is illegal in Canada. This is what I was addressing. I also agree that there is no justifiable reason for considering any traffic using a particular protocol to be illegal.

There is a popular belief that all downloading is legal in Canada, but it is misplaced. You could make an argument if you downloaded content only onto CD-Rs or DVD-Rs, but any uploading would not be permitted. Even then, though, the industry would probably want compensation for the 'ephemeral' copy that was temporarily on your hard drive before you burned it to the CD.
reply

Croaker @ 8th Nov 07:27PM:
Re: Bell Network Management

said by Abattoir :

Downloading Season 3 of Grey's Anatomy via a torrent file on TVTorrents.com, however, is illegal in Canada.

So is using a PVR or VCR to record for time-shifting purposes. This is why the current law needs reform.

As you say, P2P is neither good or evil. Not you but it gets old fast hearing some say this should be or not be allowed. Protocol based throttling should be used as a last resort. There are better ways to manage congestion more evenly amongst users.

Anyhow, have a good one.
reply