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An_Onymous @ 7th Nov 03:52PM:
Re: Bell Network Management

Copyright is the social contract of allowing the "creator" to have exclusive distribution right to "art" in exchange of it being available to public domain after a reasonably amount of time.

Copyright extension is in violation of that spirits by preventing them to ever appear in public domain. DRM is bypassing the obligation of releasing copyright material after the term expires as it prevents the public from accessing the work FOREVER. ATCA is making the act of breaking DRM illegal.

So technically copyright extensions, DRM and ATCA are STEALING from public.
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An_Onymous @ 7th Nov 03:54PM:
Re: Bell Network Management

Oops. I meant ACTA not ATCA...
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Croaker @ 7th Nov 03:56PM:
Re: Bell Network Management

said by AlexandreG :

I mean... you just can't complain that a compagny blocks or slows down illegal activities....

I'm sorry, when did we privatize law enforcement? Who made Bell judge, jury, and executioner!?

I don't need or want the private sector to meddle in the affairs of citizens.
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Bicephale @ 7th Nov 04:05PM:
Re: Bell Network Management

The abuse of the past has set in motion an institutional
abuse for everyone's future. I hope the abusers enjoy!!

:(
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An_Onymous @ 7th Nov 04:10PM:
Re: Bell Network Management

People who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones. ;)

Bell is hardly the law abiding model corporate citizen you should trust to patrol for alleged copyright violation activities.

Bell is not the government nor have the legal authority to violate privacy, perform illegal searches and the roles of judge/jury and executioner.
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Croaker @ 7th Nov 04:12PM:
Re: Bell Network Management

said by AlexandreG :

[...]
With that said, p2p downloads are not really illegal in canada, you are right... But still, making the files available on the network is illegal and most people do (and they don't even know it)
[...]
I think it should be illegal! (wow... I said that... i guess everyone here will be throwing stuff at me)
[...]
All the people who do that are often having more than 1 or 2000 songs and sometimes as much tv shows and movies... And most of there guys do listen to about 5% of their songs...
[...]
I am just tired of this... If you like something. BUY it! End of the story... I just hope that it will be completly illegal someday... At least as much as stealing in a store.

Fine. You feel it should be illegal. I get that. Anything else you wish to make illegal while we're at it?

How about using VoIP from someone other than Bell or Rogers? I think that you should only be allowed to use the VoIP services as offered from your ISP. I also think gun and car manufacturers should be held responsible for the crimes their products are involved in.

You're all over the place and have little understanding of the (our - Canadian) copyright act. You're mixing copyright laws from different countries and somehow think our law is wrong. I don't know what else to say. While I personally feel no copyright term should last more than seven years I have no problem complying with our statute as written.
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Bicephale @ 7th Nov 04:15PM:
Re: Bell Network Management

Sorry if your house of glass is now cracking, mister An_Onymous!

:p
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An_Onymous @ 7th Nov 04:26PM:
Re: Bell Network Management

>I just hope that it will be completly illegal someday... At least as much as stealing in a store.

The punishment should only be as light as stealing a ~$20 CD from a store then. So you could be stealing ~200 CD from a store and still falls below the $5000 mark.

»paulschreiber.com/blog/2005/09/1···lifting/
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AlexandreG @ 7th Nov 05:26PM:
Re: Bell Network Management

Right, I might be a little bit overreacting there, but what I do hate is that:

Because of abusers of p2p, people are now used to crappy sounding audio and they don't care... I, as an audiophile, think the quality of most mp3 found on p2p networks is HORRIBLE.
The problem is, with all that, the cd will disappear someday... Now, it isn't a big deal if some full quality audio is available on the internet.

But because of abusers again, the big crappy compagnies like SonyBMG or EMI tried to put DRMs on AudioCDs. What this means is that we, people who buy music and love good quality audio, can't do what we want with the music we pay for. (and by what we want I mean, extract, put on portable devices.... )
And this stuff doesn't do a thing to p2p addicts! They will find ways to extract the audio, and even if the quality is bad, they don't care!!

So in the end, all the "illegal" downloaders are downloading the music, and we, people who buy and love good quality music, are punished for YOUR ACTS.

I think the big compagnies realised that and stopped all this DRM crap... The problem is that I see what's happening with the HDCP and blue-ray DRMs... And I fear it could happend to audio too!

So, in the end, what I hate is that people like me are punished because of p2p users... Now, I understand that bell should not throttle the internet. They are a service provider, they shouldn't control everything...

You could say that this is not the file sharing people fault and this is the decisions of all these big crappy compagnies... You may be right! But if there was not this many illegal downloads , I don't think that they would think about DRM...

So... In the end, I guess I am more agains't DRMs than p2p :D
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AkFubar @ 7th Nov 05:53PM:
Re: Bell Network Management

Meh...Most young people have seriously impaired hearing from listening to mp3 players with the volume up too high or by having honkin big boomin speakers in their cars with the bass turned way up so I don't think they would notice the difference in sound quality.
--
"No matter where you go, there you are." - Buckaroo Banzai
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AlexandreG @ 7th Nov 05:58PM:
Re: Bell Network Management

said by AkFubar :

Meh...Most young people have seriously impaired hearing from listening to mp3 players with the volume up too high or by having honkin big boomin speakers in their cars with the bass turned way up so I don't think they would notice the difference in sound quality.

I know... But I do :(...
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Abattoir @ 7th Nov 09:08PM:
Re: Bell Network Management

said by AkFubar :

Consider yourself corrected AlexandreG. Downloading via P2P is not illegal in Canada. You are hearing propaganda from Bell, Telus and Rogers to justify throttling because they do not wish to upgrade their networks to handle normal traffic volumes. :)

Allow me to correct your correction, AkFubar. Downloading content without permission is illegal in Canada. It is an urban myth, happily propagated by CRIA and others, that such activities are legal in Canada. No-one has been successfully sued for it in Canada, but that is mostly a political decision so they can push for stricter copyright laws.

If you have a source that contradicts me, please feel free to provide it. I don't think you will be able to find one.
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the cerberus @ 7th Nov 09:40PM:
Re: Bell Network Management

said by Abattoir :

?

P2P is not illegal. P2P does not have to do with copyright infringement!! wow(world of warcraft) updates use p2p. vuse uses p2p. linux distros use p2p. you cannot say any protocol is bad. all protocols can be used to download non/copyright material. why punish the protocol?
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Vomio @ 7th Nov 11:04PM:
Re: Bell Network Management

I feel your pain over the quality of what is considered music these days.
I also remember when equipment specs really meant something.
But one must remember that some studies have shown that the P2P downloaders are also the largest purchasers of legitimately acquired music.
They are the last and only hope.
I can't reference the studies right now, but some Googling will probably turn them up. It is sad that there is a generation that doesn't pay the artists appropriately for the music they consume, but the record companies before them enslaved most artists and put them in eternal debt. For the independents today's distributions methods may hold more financial promise than what has gone before.
Now as to the quality of sound you should learn that the measure of good bass is the looseness of the trim on your Honda.
Me I scour flea markets for eight tracks they suit my car perfectly.

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evil_gusgus @ 8th Nov 03:39AM:
Re: Bell Network Management

What would be the point in making P2P illegal? All those people would just go somewhere else to get those files (rapidshare, megaupload, etc.). On top of that, anyone who uses skype would be fucked. One reason P2P is so useful is that if your a company trying to distribute a large file you use a friction of the bandwidth usage you would normally use.
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AkFubar @ 8th Nov 04:44AM:
Re: Bell Network Management

said by Abattoir :

Well apparently it depends:

»www.michaelgeist.ca/content/view/4038/159/
--
"No matter where you go, there you are." - Buckaroo Banzai
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AlexandreG @ 8th Nov 05:45PM:
Re: Bell Network Management

Ok... sorry... I will say it in another way... My bad...

Don't make p2p illegal... Make illgeal downloading... illegal :D

You understand me... I wrote enough about it...

It just causes more bad to legit people and dosen't harm illegal downloaders...
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Abattoir @ 8th Nov 07:09PM:
Re: Bell Network Management

said by the cerberus :

?

P2P is not illegal. P2P does not have to do with copyright infringement!! wow(world of warcraft) updates use p2p. vuse uses p2p. linux distros use p2p. you cannot say any protocol is bad. all protocols can be used to download non/copyright material. why punish the protocol?

Of course P2P is not illegal. It is just a protocol, a method of transferring data. Downloading Season 3 of Grey's Anatomy via a torrent file on TVTorrents.com, however, is illegal in Canada. This is what I was addressing. I also agree that there is no justifiable reason for considering any traffic using a particular protocol to be illegal.

There is a popular belief that all downloading is legal in Canada, but it is misplaced. You could make an argument if you downloaded content only onto CD-Rs or DVD-Rs, but any uploading would not be permitted. Even then, though, the industry would probably want compensation for the 'ephemeral' copy that was temporarily on your hard drive before you burned it to the CD.
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Croaker @ 8th Nov 07:27PM:
Re: Bell Network Management

said by Abattoir :

Downloading Season 3 of Grey's Anatomy via a torrent file on TVTorrents.com, however, is illegal in Canada.

So is using a PVR or VCR to record for time-shifting purposes. This is why the current law needs reform.

As you say, P2P is neither good or evil. Not you but it gets old fast hearing some say this should be or not be allowed. Protocol based throttling should be used as a last resort. There are better ways to manage congestion more evenly amongst users.

Anyhow, have a good one.
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