Looking to adopt a new Linux Page 2

Looking to adopt a new Linux Page 2
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El Quintron @ 6th Nov 04:54PM:
Re: Looking to adopt a new Linux

said by Vomio :

To turn an everyday user to a sudoer, you need to install sudo and then add that user to the sudo group. Then set up the abilities for that user in /etc/sudoers using visudo as root. I may have missed something in that description as my memory is old and failing and I don't like using sudo myself.

Having used Ubuntu previously it more or less reminded me of Ubuntu but with stricter adherence to old-school linux conventions.
--
They vilify us, the scoundrels do, when there is only this difference, they rob the poor under the cover of law, forsooth, and we plunder the rich under the protection of our own courage.
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Vomio @ 6th Nov 05:05PM:
Re: Looking to adopt a new Linux

I forgot to mention a distro that can prove interesting.
It is build on Ubuntu but don't let that put you off, BackTrack 4 Pre Release.

I keep a copy on a USB stick, a security eye opener for sure.

Probably not too wise to carry some places, you might end up on the wrong list.

There are videos of some of the capabilities on the internets.
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El Quintron @ 6th Nov 06:13PM:
Re: Looking to adopt a new Linux

Duly noted. :)
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nigrunze @ 6th Nov 06:35PM:
Re: Looking to adopt a new Linux

said by El Quintron :

said by amranu :

Try Arch, don't have to compile from source like Gentoo, but otherwise very similar, also a rolling release.

Compiling from source isn't all that scary to me, but how does it get apps and programs? Does it have a package manager? or do you compile from source?

+1 for Arch. While I haven't used it extensively, I can say that it's a pretty good minimal distro. While it's definitely not a beginners distribution, if you have a bit of linux knowledge and time, you can easily get it installed with the help of the amazing Arch Linux wiki.

EQ, to answer your question, Arch uses a package manager called Pacman (What an awesome name!).

If you want to learn more about Arch, you can start reading the incredibly long and detailed Arch Linux Beginner's Guide.

said by Croaker :

Friendliest install routine also.

I'm going to have to disagree with that until they add a "back" button to the installer.

PCLinuxOS is like Mandriva but with Debian's APT package management system.
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munky99999 @ 6th Nov 07:15PM:
Re: Looking to adopt a new Linux

Ubuntu can do everything they want. The issue is that you need to keep on the development beta front to keep to the best compiling tools. Unlike say debian who wont.

Fedora/redhat/suse or similar more enterprise driven ones are very strong ones... but if you're finding ubuntu not quite up to your customizability. These wont be for you.

Gentoo is the ultra legoblock linux. Everything and everything is customized from the building blocks up. At the same time... you realllly realllly want to know what you're doing when going that route. PS. Bonus rewards for compiling the entire OS from scratch to completion!

Slackware is like 1995's best. We arent in 1995 anymore. Move on old people.

Arch linux is the go between... between ubuntu and gentoo I think. I havent used them personally and considering their massive security breach recently... probably wont.

Personally. I plan on Fedora 12 here in a few weeks time. Due out on the 17th of nov. I expect slightly later. Though I'm atm almost purely ubuntu. If I cant do it in ubuntu... im doing something wrong; not ubuntu.
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El Quintron @ 6th Nov 08:04PM:
Re: Looking to adopt a new Linux

said by nigrunze :

+1 for Arch. While I haven't used it extensively, I can say that it's a pretty good minimal distro. While it's definitely not a beginners distribution, if you have a bit of linux knowledge and time, you can easily get it installed with the help of the amazing Arch Linux wiki.

EQ, to answer your question, Arch uses a package manager called Pacman (What an awesome name!).

(snip)

PCLinuxOS is like Mandriva but with Debian's APT package management system.

Good to know about Arch, I've basically narrowed it down to Arch or a Slackware child (Zenwalk, Salix) and I'm dying to rip through some stuff with that BackTrack beta...

You taught me another thing, I was under the impression that PClinuxOS was a RedHat child not a Mandriva child...

Thanks again,
--
They vilify us, the scoundrels do, when there is only this difference, they rob the poor under the cover of law, forsooth, and we plunder the rich under the protection of our own courage.
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Vomio @ 6th Nov 08:15PM:
Re: Looking to adopt a new Linux

Grab the Pre Release not the beta.
»www.remote-exploit.org/backtrack···oad.html
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El Quintron @ 6th Nov 08:37PM:
Re: Looking to adopt a new Linux

Already did ;)
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Angelo_ @ 6th Nov 10:43PM:
Re: Looking to adopt a new Linux

backtrack is great as a live cd...
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El Quintron @ 6th Nov 10:51PM:
Re: Looking to adopt a new Linux

Have you used it as live-usb yet?
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rex0 @ 6th Nov 11:57PM:
Re: Looking to adopt a new Linux

I'll 3rd or 4th or whatever it is for arch. It's terribly underrated but I think its one of the better distros. No bloat and the pacman package manager is great., combined with the abs build system you can do automatic gentoo style building -> arch package if you like. Over the years I've used probably every major distro, for me anyways arch combines the best features of many of the other distros without their downsides.
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joshb @ 7th Nov 12:33AM:
Re: Looking to adopt a new Linux

Slackware
Gentoo
BSD

Are my top three picks.. I do sometimes go over and use Solaris at times... But it's a far 4th... and if I hit desperation I might go to fedora... But he double hockey sticks must freeze over for that to happen.
--
R.I.P Mom We miss you.
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Angelo_ @ 7th Nov 12:35AM:
Re: Looking to adopt a new Linux

said by El Quintron :

Have you used it as live-usb yet?

yes works great
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chronoss2009 @ 7th Nov 01:00AM:
Re: Looking to adopt a new Linux

ok this depends but here goes..
if you are migrating form windows of any kind and want a really close fit to what windows was in a linux and need some graphic drivers that other distros don't carry go get mandriva powerpack ( and yea its not free cause a those drivers but if you look ya can get a copy around with no drm crap serials or whatever)

and if your more skilled but not a pro go with ubuntu or fedora. hte fedora is mentioned for a mandriva user wishing to move to more pro like linux , and ubuntu has a lot a push form canical.

if your th eman then try out debian , there are htings to do for rtorrent setup that you dont need for ubuntu but all of it you get for debian is FOSS, i psent a year helping over 500 people migrate form windows to mandriva and some too unbuntu and this was back when laptop drivers were not the greatest, ALL but one are still linux.

I also reccomend if you need any windows apps to get the linux VMware and then drop whatever windows you nee don top of that so you cna do some apps, also make sure you get wine its handy for a number of windows only apps and also have a look at sourceforge.net for a ton of windows/linux FOSS
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anon @ 7th Nov 09:15AM:
Re: Looking to adopt a new Linux

said by Guspaz :

If you really want to delve deeper, though, forget about Linux and start looking into Solaris or *BSD.

You can even ease yourself into real Unix with Debian KFreeBSD (Debian with the FreeBSD kernel) or Nexenta (Ubuntu with the OpenSolaris kernel).

+1 for FreeBSD

Another easy way to start is PC-BSD, a KDE desktop with FreeBDS under the hood.
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distr0 @ 7th Nov 11:27AM:
Re: Looking to adopt a new Linux

i've tried it all, and always end up back with fedora

new version out in 10 days too
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jat @ 7th Nov 03:41PM:
Re: Looking to adopt a new Linux

said by El Quintron :

Assuming a recent machine, with a beginner level understanding of the command line... are we talking hours, days or weeks?

Even on a recent machine, I don't think it's possible to do a desktop install of Gentoo within hours, simply because of how long it will take to compile the big packages like KDE or GNOME. Mind you, the package manager automates all of that, so you could just leave it compiling overnight. But the thing about Gentoo is that it really makes no attempt to set anything up for you. You're on your own when it comes to configuration, including everything from creating an initial user account to figuring out what packages constitute a "desktop install." There are guides and plenty of documentation, but nonetheless it can be pretty daunting for a beginner. I'd wager a guess that it'll take at least a few days before you have a usable desktop, and possibly a week or two if you run into problems. If you really want to try Gentoo, I'd recommend running it on a server until you get the hang of things instead of diving right into a desktop install.

Personally, I'd suggest you stick with an "easy" distro, like Fedora, or Ubuntu, or maybe Linux Mint if you just want something different. But really, there's nothing you can do on Gentoo that you can't do on Ubuntu. The only difference is that Ubuntu automates all the hard stuff for you, hiding the details behind a pretty GUI. But it's all still there, and you can still access it just like you would on any other distro. For example, while you're "supposed" to use the fancy GUI package manager (Synaptic), you can still use a CLI one (aptitude) instead. Switching distros just means you're "supposed" to use the CLI package manger instead of the GUI one (which is probably still there). In other words, you're just as well off using your current distro in a different way than you're "supposed to" as you are using a different distro in the way it was designed. And as an added bonus, you can always fall back on the easy GUIs if you get a little stuck.

But if you really feel the need to switch distros to get more "in-depth" knowledge, I do have to recommend Debian. Ubuntu is based on it, so there's a lot of similarities there, and there's still plenty of automatic configuration, including CLI wizards for adding a user and choosing all the packages you need for a functional desktop. But Debian doesn't hold your hand nearly as much as Ubuntu does, and you end up encouraged to figure things out for yourself. It should make a good stepping stone going from Ubuntu's "do everything for you" approach to Gentoo's "do it all yourself" approach.
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d25m03p @ 8th Nov 01:53AM:
Re: Looking to adopt a new Linux

I use the green monster - OpenSuse - since version 6, now version 11. One reason is I like the fact that the Suse setup tool "YAST" can be run in the GUI as well as at the command line.
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Sears @ 8th Nov 02:06AM:
Re: Looking to adopt a new Linux

Gentoo is nice, used it for a couple of years. However, I eventually got tired of fixing compiles gone bezerk, upgrades gone bad or buggy ebuilds. Generally, it works well if you know what you were doing.

I'd have to vote for Debian testing. Pretty stable, recent software versions, and good support. Set up a ppa on launchpad and roll your own debs for specific software that isn't in the repositories if need be.
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El Quintron @ 8th Nov 08:34AM:
Re: Looking to adopt a new Linux

said by jat :

Personally, I'd suggest you stick with an "easy" distro, like Fedora, or Ubuntu, or maybe Linux Mint if you just want something different.

Those are good points If I was dealing with a production machine but the machine I'm doing this on isn't going to be a production machine.

I'm bored with Ubuntu, but not computers so I'm going to have to change distros. That's also why I'm not interested in Debian due to its close relationship with Ubuntu.

Now assuming I had commercial needs (servers, automation) I would run Debian in a heartbeat because I'm assuming its better to work with something you know rather than something you don't.

Also, some machines work great with Ubuntu ~2-5 year vintage to present. Some are insanely, so running Ubuntu on that type of machine is a huge PITA and kinda does an injustice to linux all around. Hence why I'm going to get into a more complex one.
--
They vilify us, the scoundrels do, when there is only this difference, they rob the poor under the cover of law, forsooth, and we plunder the rich under the protection of our own courage.
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bonaparte @ 8th Nov 11:13AM:
Re: Looking to adopt a new Linux

said by El Quintron :

I'm bored with Ubuntu, but not computers so I'm going to have to change distros. That's also why I'm not interested in Debian due to its close relationship with Ubuntu.

Just out of curiosity, what is it about Ubuntu that bores you? Narrowing that down might help steer the suggestions towards something of your liking.

If it's the package manager, then Debian is not going to be any more fun for you. Gentoo, Arch, or even FreeBSD would be more appealing.

If you're just tired of the default UI, you've got many alternatives provided by Ubuntu itself - XFCE, ion3, XMonad, etc.

If you just want a different out-of-the-box experience, you could try out OpenSolaris or any of the BSD variants, or a minimalistic Linux distro (DamnSmallLinux comes to mind).

Finally, if your machine has reasonable specs you could also install VirtualBox and try out a few options before settling on any specific one. Big advantage: If you compulsively purge packages and find out you removed one too many, you can always roll back to a previous snapshot and pretend nothing happened.
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El Quintron @ 8th Nov 12:09PM:
Re: Looking to adopt a new Linux

My main production machine (which I plan on leaving Ubuntu as is) has the spec to run a couple of virtual boxes, its relatively new, the only thing I regret is going QuadCore instead of i7. I did build it this year though, so it should be up to spec to run a few virtual Machines.

I am itching to build something from scratch though, so what I may do is dual boot my netbook with Moblin and Slack or Arch and run a couple of virtual boxes on this machine.

I did try slackware on an Older Dell, and it did give me a lot of issues. I ended caving and re-installing ubuntu on it. That was over a year ago, so I could probably deal with it much better (having more command line experience) So we'll see.

Also I should probably try a few other UIs on Ubuntu as well.
--
They vilify us, the scoundrels do, when there is only this difference, they rob the poor under the cover of law, forsooth, and we plunder the rich under the protection of our own courage.
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Guspaz @ 8th Nov 09:54PM:
Re: Looking to adopt a new Linux

I think the big thing that puts me off of Slackware is the complete lack of a package management system. Sure, it has packages, but that's it; there's nothing to MANAGE packages.

Want to upgrade between versions of Slackware? Make a list of the packages that you have installed, download the newer versions of those packages, and install them yourself.

A note on Gentoo's package management system; portage is very similar to apt-get. You're not compiling stuff yourself, you're saying "Go, get and install this package". The only difference is that it compiles it before installing.

Personally, I'm happy with Ubuntu ;)

Regarding MPE: I don't mention A/UX out of obscurity, but because I was a Mac user growing up. We had a 68LC040-based mac that served us for many years as the family computer until I got tired of it being so far out of date and managed to get a friend to donate enough old PC parts to scrap together a 486 (this when the Pentium 2 was already out).

A/UX has always intrigued me; a true Unix core but with the System 6/7/8 interface that I grew up with. It is in many ways the precursor to Mac OS X (although there is no direct connection between them, many concepts were borrowed when they macified NeXTSTEP into OS X). Here's a Unix OS that came out in 1988 with an interface that most other *nix couldn't match until 15 years later!

Sadly, like 68K Linux, A/UX required an FPU, something that the 68LC040 sadly lacked. I was stuck with System 7 and then Mac OS 8 until I managed to switch to the PC world (Macs were just too expensive when you have nothing but a small allowance to pay for upgrades).
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alekssavvy @ 9th Nov 12:32AM:
Re: Looking to adopt a new Linux

try gentoo

i had a lot of fun with it :)
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Inssomniak @ 9th Nov 08:55AM:
Re: Looking to adopt a new Linux

said by TSI Gabe :

My preference for linux has always been Gentoo, highly customizable.

+1.

I run Gentoo on my desktop for many years.
It also runs on my server for email, web and radius for almost 300 users and 200,000 emails a month.
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Zer0 @ 9th Nov 12:35PM:
Re: Looking to adopt a new Linux

said by munky99999 :

...Arch linux is the go between... between ubuntu and gentoo I think. I havent used them personally and considering their massive security breach recently... probably wont...

Arch Linux security breach? I don't recall that. Link please?

+1 for Arch Linux though, been using it since 2006 when I migrated from SimplyMEPIS (similar to Ubuntu) because I wanted to learn more about linux. I also wanted a distro that didn't "holds my hands" too much so I could learn what goes on under the hood.
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TSI Steve @ 9th Nov 12:50PM:
Re: Looking to adopt a new Linux

said by El Quintron :

(cross posted from All things Unix)

I posted this elsewhere but everybody here is just so freakin' awsome :p

So I wanted to get the TSi peeps input as well.

quote:
I'm looking to adopt a different *nix from Ubuntu seeing as I want to get a little more "in-depth" about linux.

I'm looking for something modern, with a frequent release schedule (rolling release distro maybe?) and hopefully good support for modern hardware.

I would consider myself somewhere between beginner and intermediate, I've compiled a few programs, and I'm not overly terrified of command lines and CLIs.

I was wondering what your preferences were?

I'll be taking your distros, reading up on them on distrowatch and probably installing a few of them on a wired machine.

Thanks again.

ZOMG SLACKWARE!!!

Like seriously. If you want a manual, console based experience IMO there's nothing better then Slackware.

I've been using Slackware since Oct 95. I love it.

I've always preferred console over GUI - i guess because I don't like using mice. Slackware does come with a GUI but I've never installed it.

If you want ease of use, functionality, automatic updates etc. Then you should use one of the user-friendly gui based distros that I know nothing about. I've had experience with Suse, Fedora, and Ubuntu but I couldn't make an unbiased recommendation.

:)

Steve
--
TSI Steve - TekSavvy Solutions Inc.
Authorized TSI employee ( »TekSavvy FAQ »Official support in the forum )

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munky99999 @ 9th Nov 01:00PM:
Re: Looking to adopt a new Linux

said by Zer0 :

said by munky99999 :

...Arch linux is the go between... between ubuntu and gentoo I think. I havent used them personally and considering their massive security breach recently... probably wont...

The arch lead developer's main computer had been discovered to have been breached. Which lead to a few modules being compromised.

This led to alot of users moving to gentoo recently. Or pushing large for package signing.

As originally they'd discovered the compromised modules and was pointing at him as to having done it maliciously. The more recently discovered that only 1 shell script had been compromised and nothing else actually led to being compromised. However the question is... what havent they found yet?

From an outside more end-user point of view though. Arch has been remarkably ironclad and with this recent issue... they proved any issues will be found before they reach release. Most likely will start implementing and developing certificate based everything!

Arch could become something really good in the future.
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El Quintron @ 9th Nov 01:26PM:
Re: Looking to adopt a new Linux

said by TSI Steve :

ZOMG SLACKWARE!!!

Like seriously. If you want a manual, console based experience IMO there's nothing better then Slackware.

I've been using Slackware since Oct 95. I love it.

I've always preferred console over GUI - i guess because I don't like using mice. Slackware does come with a GUI but I've never installed it.

If you want ease of use, functionality, automatic updates etc. Then you should use one of the user-friendly gui based distros that I know nothing about. I've had experience with Suse, Fedora, and Ubuntu but I couldn't make an unbiased recommendation.

:)

Steve

Duly noted, so its basically down to Gentoo, Slackware or one of the Slackware children.

I've decided to dual boot Moblin and Arch on my netbook and will have to test Slackware, Gentoo and the Slackware children from Virtualbox on this tower.

I'm a little sad that I'm going to nuke my little AA1 that's been running faithfully without any issues since 8.04, but curiosity conquers all.
--
They vilify us, the scoundrels do, when there is only this difference, they rob the poor under the cover of law, forsooth, and we plunder the rich under the protection of our own courage.
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shepd @ 9th Nov 01:43PM:
Re: Looking to adopt a new Linux

said by Guspaz :

I think the big thing that puts me off of Slackware is the complete lack of a package management system. Sure, it has packages, but that's it; there's nothing to MANAGE packages.

Want to upgrade between versions of Slackware? Make a list of the packages that you have installed, download the newer versions of those packages, and install them yourself.

Slackware has package management? :D

Seriously, though, I treat it as if it were a completed LFS and just compile anything I need extra. ;-)
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El Quintron @ 10th Nov 12:11PM:
Re: Looking to adopt a new Linux

Ok so quick update on this one, I will be doing Arch on my AA1 shortly.

I tried Moblin on my AA1 last night and it was very cute, and fast but it seems like something I'd want in a cell phone, and not on a computer.

All the applications are integrated in the OS...

So my thoughts were oh cute, but I don't want to hack the shit out of this if I want to use Firefox.

So tonight brings Arch as my second guinea pig for that machine.
--
They vilify us, the scoundrels do, when there is only this difference, they rob the poor under the cover of law, forsooth, and we plunder the rich under the protection of our own courage.
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Zer0 @ 10th Nov 02:47PM:
Re: Looking to adopt a new Linux

Good Luck with Arch. If you have any problems drop by our forums or in #archlinux@freenode on IRC and I'm sure receive help quickly. The Arch community is very friendly.
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El Quintron @ 10th Nov 03:17PM:
Re: Looking to adopt a new Linux

Thank you, you'll probably see me around there soon enough!
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salamence502 @ 10th Nov 04:11PM:
Re: Looking to adopt a new Linux

Yes, Arch is very good IMO, and the wiki and forums are so complete that you're guaranteed to get help one way or another.
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El Quintron @ 10th Nov 04:17PM:
Re: Looking to adopt a new Linux

I've been on the wiki all day poking around, its pretty thorough. I'm impressed so far.
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shubjero @ 10th Nov 09:28PM:
Re: Looking to adopt a new Linux

For my own personal 'production' use, I'm a huge fan of Ubuntu LTS server editions. Clearly you have already run some flavour of Ubuntu, so thats great.

I'd make it a priority to expose yourself to FreeBSD. It's quite different, but many things you have learned in Linux are easily transferable.

I don't disagree with the majority of users recommending Gentoo, and Slackware. I've run these in the past (beginning with Slackware in the 90's) and while they definitely take longer to setup (Gentoo can take days depending on what stage you start at), I find they also dont offer much in return/reward for personal use.

It's my personal opinion that if you want to pursue a unix admin career, then run Gentoo, and learn it well, along side of FreeBSD.

Sounds like you have many nerdy nights ahead of you, enjoy!
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El Quintron @ 11th Nov 11:43AM:
Re: Looking to adopt a new Linux

I want to get a handle on the basics (setting up a "hard" read mostly CLI based linux) so I can eventually move to fancy stuff like compiling my own drivers and functionality into my systems.

As it stands I'm a pretty good end user, but I still to rely on tools and builds made by other people in order to accomplish what I want.

If I was able to navigate the kernel, CLIs and those things then I could just build any system from the bottom up.

Right now I'm kinda pushing Ubuntu because I'm always looking for a .deb or some obscure package.

If I had the compiling skills or at knew how the kernel interacted with my system I could get most of what I needed without wating for a new package to be written by someone else (nvidia-glx-190 dev amd64 comes to mind)

So yeah, I need a bit more command line skills to get what I need. Or not wait for what I need to be provided by someone else.
--
They vilify us, the scoundrels do, when there is only this difference, they rob the poor under the cover of law, forsooth, and we plunder the rich under the protection of our own courage.
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Guspaz @ 11th Nov 12:39PM:
Re: Looking to adopt a new Linux

said by El Quintron :

As it stands I'm a pretty good end user, but I still to rely on tools and builds made by other people in order to accomplish what I want.

Unless you're flipping bits on your hard disk with a magnetized needle and a steady hand...

If I had the compiling skills or at knew how the kernel interacted with my system I could get most of what I needed without wating for a new package to be written by someone else (nvidia-glx-190 dev amd64 comes to mind)

Gentoo is compiling everything from source, but it's transparent to you; I'm told the experience isn't that different from a Debian-based distro. There's a package, you tell portage (via emerge) to install it. It pulls in dependencies as required, and installs it. The only difference is that the automated installation process involves compiling behind the scenes. You *can* get more complex if you want to specify config options, but you don't have to.
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El Quintron @ 11th Nov 12:59PM:
Re: Looking to adopt a new Linux

said by Guspaz :

Unless you're flipping bits on your hard disk with a magnetized needle and a steady hand...

:D Point taken...

Searching for .deb files and adding repositories to synaptic is a bit roundabout from:

DL Source -> DL component you want to add to Program source. -> Compile together -> added funtionality.

Take the whole adding VDPAU support to MPLAYER as an example of how easy these things can be if you know what you're doing. (Compile wise)

said by Guspaz :

Gentoo is compiling everything from source, but it's transparent to you; I'm told the experience isn't that different from a Debian-based distro. There's a package, you tell portage (via emerge) to install it. It pulls in dependencies as required, and installs it. The only difference is that the automated installation process involves compiling behind the scenes. You *can* get more complex if you want to specify config options, but you don't have to.

I've toyed with the idea of Gentoo a couple of times, Its on my list linuxes to learn, even thought I'm going to take the Arch Plunge soon.
--
They vilify us, the scoundrels do, when there is only this difference, they rob the poor under the cover of law, forsooth, and we plunder the rich under the protection of our own courage.
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