Verizon's Cablevision Snark Fest Continues - Hey PC Magazine, competition is a GOOD thing...
Links: home · search · speed test · login · more ·
Verizon's Cablevision Snark Fest Continues
Hey PC Magazine, competition is a GOOD thing...
(old news - 03:31PM Friday May 01 2009)
tags: competition · business · Op/Ed · cable · Verizon FIOS · Optimum Online
Earlier this week, Cablevision unveiled a new DOCSIS 3.0 service tier that delivers 101Mbps downstream and 15Mbps upstream for $99 with no caps, a good deal no matter what kind of technology you favor. The next day, Verizon was quick to call Cablevision's offer a " parlor trick," and a Verizon representative on Twitter has spent much of the week taking shots at Cablevision's offer. Verizon seemed interested in this particular story by PC Magazine Editor in Chief Lance Ulanoff, where he begins by claiming Cablevision's being misleading: The other morning as I prepared my lunch, I heard a new Cablevision Optimum Online commercial. . .The Optimum lady said that Verizon would deliver your broadband on its plain old copper lines. . .Optimum's tiny bit of misdirection leaves you with the impression that Verizon's FiOS service is a lie and is fiber in name only. While the cable industry often likes to intentionally confuse the difference between core and last mile fiber, that doesn't appear to be the case here. We asked for a copy of the ad in question from Cablevision, and it turns out the specific ad was for Optimum's business service, the business logo clearly displayed throughout. Cablevision's ad was specifically responding to a Verizon ad for business-class 7Mbps DSL, not FiOS. Ulanoff goes on to make a few strange arguments about how Cablevision's new 101Mbps residential offer isn't really fast: At the same time, Cablevision is touting its new DOCSIS 3.0–based 100-Mbps, $99-a-month broadband service. It even got most of the major national media to name it the fastest cable in the country. This could lead people to think it's the "fastest broadband in the country." Which is curious, since even including municipal fiber deployments in places like Lafayette, Louisiana, Cablevision's new tier is the fastest residential broadband in the country, barring a few tiny carriers. Ulanoff also argues that the service isn't really wanted, and that customers who might want 101Mbps connectivity are somehow being conned by Cablevision: These superhigh speeds will roll out across the country, but only a handful of well-heeled customers will pay for them. Those users will inadvertently become foot soldiers in Cablevision's efforts to battle FiOS in the more affordable broadband space. Describing consumers who want the fastest connection available as "foot soldiers" and "well-heeled" makes Cablevision's offer sound almost menacing. When the tier launches on May 11, consumers in our forums will be the first to tell you whether Cablevision is living up to their promise. While the new tier is certainly more than most users need, it's still a good value. Until the speed tests roll in, it seems like the technology press should be applauding the kind of one-upmanship Verizon and Cablevision are engaging in. After all, it's what real competition looks like, potshots and all. Not that the potshots mean anything, anyway. Like their response to DOCSIS 3.0, Verizon has called Cablevision's decision to offer free Wi-Fi " a marketing ploy," yet the Wall Street Journal today cites insiders who say Verizon may offer free Wi-Fi themselves sometime this summer as part of a partnership with Boingo. It's likely that once Verizon gets done complaining, they'll eventually unveil their own 100Mbps FiOS offering. One more time with feeling: ain't competition grand?
Related:- Craig Moffett: Network Upgrades Are For Ninnies
- Verizon Promises Not To Cherry Pick Philadelphia
- Pittsburgh, Verizon Haggling Over FiOS
- Comcast 'Honors' FCC Authority On Neutrality
- What Network Neutrality Is REALLY About
- Verizon Won't 'Slavishly Satisfy' You With 100 Mbps FiOS
- Cable Industry: Shucks, Guess Nobody Wants CableCARDs
- There's Still No Evidence That Metered Billing Is Necessary
|
Links: New Topic
Forums »
page: 1 · 2
pspcrazy @ 1st May 02:12PM:
Someone's being paid
Well it seems like someone's being paid off, or their just plain ignorant lol. Shame on you PC world. Lol not even knowing that 101 mbit is the fastest multi state residential in the U.S in quite funny.
Note that there is 1 faster then them only in santa barbara and around that area:
Paxio: »paxio.com/home.php?link=Internet
They offer 1 GBPS resedential, oh it would be a dream.
--
My Anime Site - AnimeCrazy.net
reply
Bit @ 1st May 02:17PM:
Instead of nit picking how about asking...
..."Where is Verizon with their 102Mb response? Let VZ put up or shut up."
reply
Chris 313 @ 1st May 02:19PM:
Re: Someone's being paid
said by pspcrazy :Well it seems like someone's being paid off, or their just plain ignorant lol. Shame on you PC world. Lol not even knowing that 101 mbit is the fastest multi state residential in the U.S in quite funny.
Note that there is 1 faster then them only in santa barbara and around that area:
Paxio: »
paxio.com/home.php?link=InternetThey offer 1 GBPS resedential, oh it would be a dream.
Exactly! You wanna plunk down 250 a month for gig both ways internet, and you have something that could eat just about 30 somethings at the same time and still have room to spare.
After all, unless you use something like Flashget, you are limited to whatever a server can push out. What is it these days, 45-50Mbits? If a lot more people went for 100+ connections, I could definitely see myself doing several things at once besides this one download I'm working on at that moment.
reply
viperlmw @ 1st May 02:19PM:
Just a point
"Which is strange, since even including municipal fiber deployments in places like Lafayette, Louisiana, the new offering is the fastest broadband in the country."
This quote strikes me as odd for 2 reasons. If we are talking about business broadband, then wouldn't OCx connections count? Also, Lafayette muni fiber seems to be for residential use, no mention of business class on their site.
reply
Chris 313 @ 1st May 02:22PM:
Re: Instead of nit picking how about asking...
said by Bit :
..."Where is Verizon with their 102Mb response? Let VZ put up or shut up."
Indeed! Instead of political mud slinging, etc, VZ should put up and shut up and debut their own 100Mbit offering.
Compete, you idiots. Though, all this name calling does make for a good laugh.
What's your take on it? Do you believe CV has the balls in their network to keep 101 meg going among all users in the footprint since they're offering it to all?
I certainly hope so and will be crossing my fingers and cheering for them.
reply
Killa200 @ 1st May 02:23PM:
Re: Someone's being paid
most of the time its 10mbit or 100mbit per server on the dedi / colo sides of things. There are the few and far packages that let you pick up some odd unmetered port speeds. Most "servers" that your pulling sites from generally get billed on usage rather than speed.
:EDIT: And yes, before someone else comes up and says it in a snide remark.... the bandwidth does have to be shared amongst all those using that server, whether it be multiple sites or multiple visitors to said sites.
reply
Karl Bode @ 1st May 02:29PM:
Re: Just a point
If we are talking about business broadband
We're talking about residential broadband. The only reason business broadband is mentioned, is that PC Magazine's editor confused a business commercial for a residential one, then tied it into a broader tirade against Cablevision's latest residential offering.
reply
DarkLogix @ 1st May 02:29PM:
Re: Just a point
the ad was for business but I think they are going to offer the same speed to resi
but ya if you only look at business service then OC beats the **** outa it (oh wouldn't it be nice to have OC768 ie 40gig)
reply
Karl Bode @ 1st May 02:29PM:
Re: Someone's being paid
I don't think he's being paid, he just really likes FiOS. So do I, but the facts are the facts....the Cablevision offer is a good one, as long as they deliver the goods.
reply
Jeffrey @ 1st May 02:30PM:
I love competition!
I have to admit, living in CV and Fios territory makes some great competition. I was a CV subscriber from 1999-2005, and when I left in 2005, the service was far from adequate. Turned to Fios, and never looked back. Recently, I moved to an area that doesn't have Fios (yet), but my CV connection (Boost, at 30/5) is absolutely stellar, mostly through the help of the people here at the Optonline Direct forum.
It will be very interesting to see what happens with CV's new tier. I find it a little annoying that a second modem is required for their Optimum Phone offering on this new tier. There is probably a good reason for that, one which is more than likely over my head. :) For now, I have an amazingly fast Boost connection, and while the price point of $99 is excellent, I'll let some other people be the guinea pig for that tier for a little bit. :)
I'll be watching the Optonline forum to see the speeds that people who subscriber to that tier actually achieve; especially during the peak times. Likewise, I'll be watching what Verizon's counteraction will be, and what it may mean for my parents Fios connection.
Competition is good. :D
--
"Honesty may be the best policy, but it's important to remember that apparently, by elimination, dishonesty is the second-best policy." - George Carlin
[my ramblings]
reply
FHBroadband @ 1st May 02:32PM:
Re: Someone's being paid
Time Warner vs FIOS.
Time Warner is REAL FIBER here. Yes, I can touch it, smell it and feel it. It is fiber optics to right in front of the building.
RCN is fiber as well to the basement of the complex.
Verizon FIOS pretends its some new fiber network, it is not.
reply
Jeffrey @ 1st May 02:32PM:
Re: Someone's being paid
said by Karl Bode :
I don't think he's being paid, he just really likes FiOS. So do I, but the facts are the facts....the Cablevision offer is a good one, as long as they deliver the goods.
With the rumour of that high ($250 or up) price tag, I was shocked to see a $99 fee. I really didn't think they'd price it that low.
--
"Honesty may be the best policy, but it's important to remember that apparently, by elimination, dishonesty is the second-best policy." - George Carlin
[my ramblings]
reply
Lee GWB @ 1st May 02:33PM:
Re: I love competition!
Jeff,
It is a liken :) to a tennis match. VZ ...Ball is in you Court!! I love it!!!!!
Lee :)
reply
DarkLogix @ 1st May 02:35PM:
Re: I love competition!
said by Jeffrey :
I find it a little annoying that a second modem is required for their Optimum Phone offering on this new tier. There is probably a good reason for that
I don't know about CV but D3 Modems with phone are not common (yet)although they are out there
reply
Jeffrey @ 1st May 02:35PM:
Re: Instead of nit picking how about asking...
said by Bit :
..."Where is Verizon with their 102Mb response? Let VZ put up or shut up."
I'm sure it'll come. Not today, or the next day. Maybe not even on May 11th. But it's a competitive area, and you know Verizon will do something.
I'm curious if it's going to be of a more symmetrical offering, or not. I tend to think that a consumer thinks a 101/15 connection is way, way, waaaay better than a 50/50. I'd disagree, but then again, marketing can go along way if done properly. Additionally, and maybe Docsis 3 will fix this, some Optimum Online subscribers's connections have a tendency to really slow down in the evening/peak times. With Fios, I never experieced that slowdown at any time.
--
"Honesty may be the best policy, but it's important to remember that apparently, by elimination, dishonesty is the second-best policy." - George Carlin
[my ramblings]
reply
Karl Bode @ 1st May 02:37PM:
Re: Someone's being paid
I feel like maybe the guy who leaked the trial in our forums was reading what the business cost will be? Not sure why the discrepancy.
reply
DarkLogix @ 1st May 02:39PM:
Re: I love competition!
ya and come on and press comcast for some comp
reply
swhitney2003 @ 1st May 02:42PM:
Re: Instead of nit picking how about asking...
said by Bit :
..."Where is Verizon with their 102Mb response? Let VZ put up or shut up."
or... 101Mbps for $98/mo?
reply
jpr281 @ 1st May 02:42PM:
Re: I love competition!
said by Jeffrey :
I find it a little annoying that a second modem is required for their Optimum Phone offering on this new tier. There is probably a good reason for that, one which is more than likely over my head. :)
CV currently does not carry a DOCSIS 3 (which is needed for the 100 Mb/s speed) modem that has ethernet and phone ports (for VoIP). They might be looking to add this modem on or soon after May 11.
reply
jadebangle @ 1st May 02:44PM:
Re: I love competition!
I believe cablevision 100/15 is more of a gimmick then a real harecore speed demon connection... verizon is upgrading again with only 3 tier 10/10, 25/25 and 75/25
would would be just happy with 10/10 or 25/25
anything faster then that is just for brags rights
like a ferrari car that does 0 to 60 in 5 sec... sure it is a lot faster but overall your usage may not increase much or at all
The internet is like a highway and there is speed limit placed all over. sure you got a car that does 300mph but you are limited by that
it doesn't matter if you got 100mbit or 1gpbs
you will still be slowed down by that...
yes it is purely marketing and i could careless about 100mbps
my 10mbps symmetrical connection blow most other connection away cause most ppl still have pathetic upload still like 384k to 768k like att and timewarner cable..
I mean really crappy upload... that is enough to make me smile when i see how crippled their connection are :D
reply
morbo @ 1st May 02:47PM:
VZ should blow them away...
with their next tier: 150Mbps or 200Mbps for $98
reply
Jeffrey @ 1st May 02:48PM:
Re: I love competition!
said by jpr281 :said by Jeffrey :
I find it a little annoying that a second modem is required for their Optimum Phone offering on this new tier. There is probably a good reason for that, one which is more than likely over my head. :)
CV currently does not carry a DOCSIS 3 (which is needed for the 100 Mb/s speed) modem that has ethernet and phone ports (for VoIP). They might be looking to add
this modem on or soon after May 11.
Now, that's a horse of a different color. :) Thanks for the info!
--
"Honesty may be the best policy, but it's important to remember that apparently, by elimination, dishonesty is the second-best policy." - George Carlin
[my ramblings]
reply
jadebangle @ 1st May 02:49PM:
Re: I love competition!
fixed...
most would be just happy with 10/10 or 25/25
even 75/25 is an overkill
10/10 39.99
25/25 49.99
75/25 89.99
surewest charges me 53.99 for 10mbps and 91.99 for 20mbps
The price are pretty steep and i assure you that most prefer 1mbit or 5mbit due to pricing of 29.99/39.99
speed is not everything... decent price is more important
high speed, expensive= like an expensive car
NOT FOR EVERYONE, ONLY FEW WITH EXTRA MONEY
reply
DarkLogix @ 1st May 02:51PM:
Re: VZ should blow them away...
to do anything past 100 I think VZ would have to replace their fiber copper converter that they put on the house
I bet it only does 100base-t on the copper side
reply
Draganta @ 1st May 02:52PM:
Re: Instead of nit picking how about asking...
Honestly I think Verizon shouldn't offer anything higher now for the time being. They should however lower their prices as a response. Seriously, we are in a recession and people will react more to price than some "penis size" contest.
This is coming from a VZ FiOS Customer who has the 50/20 service. I don't mind paying the $89 monthly fee. But from a business sense, they should lower their prices.
reply
Eat Me @ 1st May 03:03PM:
Re: Instead of nit picking how about asking...
I think you hit on a point here.
Verizon is scared that there will come a day when they can't continue the one upmanship, and that they can't just throw one death blow and keep Cablevision down.
The truth is that HFC and FTTH only differ in the last (less than a) mile (in some cases) and cable can very easily upgrade to FTTH since their core is already fiber. Furthermore they already have the staff that is trained to run and splice fiber, and the agreements with companies to provide fiber gear.
Why you are seeing DOCSIS3 instead of fiber is that it can provide "good enough" speeds to keep up with FiOS for the time being until it becomes necessary to move away from coax.
And by the way, while FiOS is fiber to your home, they are still coax between your TVs and even coax (MoCA) between the ONT and your router, so they aren't all that different from what cable has to offer.
reply
Bobcat @ 1st May 03:07PM:
Ain't competition grand?
Competition hasn't done much for me. I don't want higher speeds, I want lower prices. I pay $32 per month for broadband, and that's too high.
--
It's nice to be important, but it's more important to be nice.
reply
anon @ 1st May 03:10PM:
Re: VZ should blow them away...
If it wasn't for the little bit of competition in this space - Verizon would still be called ISDN "High Speed Internet" and charging $100 a month for it plus usage fees.
reply
DarkLogix @ 1st May 03:10PM:
Re: Ain't competition grand?
$32 is to high for you
well sorry but I think most will agree $32 is a fine price
reply
hopeflicker @ 1st May 03:12PM:
Re: Someone's being paid
said by FHBroadband :
Time Warner vs FIOS.
Time Warner is REAL FIBER here. Yes, I can touch it, smell it and feel it. It is fiber optics to right in front of the building.
RCN is fiber as well to the basement of the complex.
Verizon FIOS pretends its some new fiber network, it is not.
LOL
--
My father had all this political capital built up when he drove the Iraqis out of Kuwait and he wasted it. He said, If I have a chance to invade if I had that much capital, I'm not going to waste it.I'm going to get everything passed that I want.
G W BUSH
reply
iansltx @ 1st May 03:15PM:
Re: VZ should blow them away...
Verizon should offer 120/25 for $90 and 155/30 for maybe $120 in CV markets. The higher tier would require more bandwidth than a 4-channel-down 1-channel-up DOCSIS 3 connection can handle. This of course will send CV scurrying back to the drawing board since upstream bonding isn't available yet (when it is VZ just has to up the upload speeds as needed, if CV decides to compete there) and neither is 8-channel downstream bonding. Game, set, match. Since people can't really reach those speeds anyway due to most servers being on 100 Mbit ports these days, it's really a parlor trick on Verizon's part, but a whole lot less expensive one compared to OOL having to share their DOCSIS channels very conservatively to get those speeds out of copper.
Then again, CV might strike back with NARAD. Yummy yummy...
reply
jjeffeory @ 1st May 03:17PM:
Re: Someone's being paid
said by hopeflicker :said by FHBroadband :
Time Warner vs FIOS.
Time Warner is REAL FIBER here. Yes, I can touch it, smell it and feel it. It is fiber optics to right in front of the building.
RCN is fiber as well to the basement of the complex.
Verizon FIOS pretends its some new fiber network, it is not.
LOL
Yes, LOL...
reply
anon @ 1st May 03:18PM:
Re: I love competition!
said by jadebangle :
I believe cablevision 100/15 is more of a gimmick then a real harecore speed demon connection...
anything faster then that is just for brags rights
Yes for a single user connection it is above what MOST would need.
You need to understand that MOST homes have MULTIPLE net enabled users. With a spouse (wireless laptop) and a few kids (each with a computer and multiple consoles) it becomes apparent that these speeds are what is needed.
No more trying to figure out who's doing what on the net that has my FPS going through the roof playing Call of Duty (yes QoS can help but why worry when you can throw more pipe at it).
Everyone get's to do their thing and is happy :-)
Believe me I'll be first in line on the 11th!
reply
anon @ 1st May 03:21PM:
Ftth
We're about two years away from the next evolution of the pon networking gear. Once this gets deployed it takes ftth up to around 288 mgs down. Moore's law is applying here also!!!!
Hopefully they will find a way to weave d-3 into it. Then 1g at my house is mine finally.
reply
anon @ 1st May 03:22PM:
Re: Ain't competition grand?
Don't listen to CheapCat. All he does is whine in the Opt forums about prices for everything and how Cablevision is screwing him around every corner.
Oooh Optimum is going all digital and I have 10 TV hookups that need boxes now.
He lives in Bedminster (according to his title) and yet is penny pinching the heck out of ALL of his services.
He's just REALLLY cheap!
reply
jadebangle @ 1st May 03:23PM:
Re: Ain't competition grand?
said by DarkLogix :
$32 is to high for you
well sorry but I think most will agree $32 is a fine price
Unless he want something slower like ATT 768kbps with 20gb caps at 19.99 1 year contract or 29.99 w/out contract hopefully ATT learns form TW and will can this BS CAPS as well
If that is still too high then the only option left is to go back to dialup at 7.99 to 9.99 a month depending on your term and contract
reply
Bobcat @ 1st May 03:29PM:
Re: Ain't competition grand?
Cablevision used to charge $29 for their regular OOL price.
reply
me1212 @ 1st May 03:40PM:
Re: Instead of nit picking how about asking...
No, 100m for $95. and 50m for $60-ish and 75m for $80-ish.
reply
jmn1207 @ 1st May 03:40PM:
Speed Test?
I'm not really interested in seeing a captured image from the results of some online speed test. Tests like those make Comcast service with Powerboost seem much better than it is, but the reality, from my own testing, suggests that the speed test sites don't tell me very much.
I would like to see a sustained download or upload with a larger file, and not just some quick flash of performance. This new Cablevision plan also will use "Boost", so who knows what the results would look like from Speed Test.net or a similar test site? How stable is the 15Mbps upload going to be when pushing a 200MB video file? Something like that would be much more useful to me for making a comparison.
I wish Verizon would stop with the bashing. The more they attack Cablevision's new tier as a "gimmick", the less likely it will be that they will offer something similar or better, at least in the short term. I'm definitely in the put up or shut up camp.
reply
Shamayim @ 1st May 03:42PM:
"Until the speed tests roll in"
Is there even a bi-directional speed test around that reliably reports 100 mb/sec?
reply
aaronwt @ 1st May 03:43PM:
Re: Instead of nit picking how about asking...
said by Jeffrey :said by Bit :
..."Where is Verizon with their 102Mb response? Let VZ put up or shut up."
I'm sure it'll come. Not today, or the next day. Maybe not even on May 11th. But it's a competitive area, and you know Verizon will do something.
I'm curious if it's going to be of a more symmetrical offering, or not. I tend to think that a consumer thinks a 101/15 connection is way, way, waaaay better than a 50/50. I'd disagree, but then again, marketing can go along way if done properly. Additionally, and maybe Docsis 3 will fix this, some Optimum Online subscribers's connections have a tendency to really slow down in the evening/peak times. With Fios, I never experieced that slowdown at any time.
It depends on what you need. For a person that does mostly downloading, obviously they would prefer faster download speeds. I'm happy with my current 20mbs upload speed, but I would certainly want faster download speeds than my current 50mbs. Most of my bandwidth is used for downloading. And the times when i do upload alot of data, the 20mbs is sufficient for now.
reply
DarkLogix @ 1st May 03:44PM:
Re: "Until the speed tests roll in"
ya its called bit-torrent of linux
reply
jmn1207 @ 1st May 03:47PM:
Re: Just a point
Let's not forget the $245 Gigabit service from Paxio.
»www.paxio.net/home.php?link=Internet
I think that comfortably beats Cablevision.
reply
Eat Me @ 1st May 03:56PM:
Re: Someone's being paid
said by jjeffeory :said by hopeflicker :said by FHBroadband :
Time Warner vs FIOS.
Time Warner is REAL FIBER here. Yes, I can touch it, smell it and feel it. It is fiber optics to right in front of the building.
RCN is fiber as well to the basement of the complex.
Verizon FIOS pretends its some new fiber network, it is not.
LOL
Yes, LOL...
OMG LOL!!!
Truth that some people here really don't have a clue...
reply
anon @ 1st May 03:57PM:
How pathetic
A Verizon representative on Twitter. Oh please. Twitter is for twits. I like the way Verizon is obviously pissed by this. It means CV is doing something right. Verizon needs to step up to the plate and offer the damn service in more areas. NYC is a concrete jungle. There's more dwellings then houses here. So Verizon needs to bring it on
reply
GadgetVirtu @ 1st May 04:00PM:
ONTs are FIOS' bottleneck
If Verizon intends to offer 100mb anything they are going to need to increase the bandwidth from the ONT. I've got a 10/100/1000 router but the best I could do is 100mb from the ONT, some of which will be used by STBs. Now if they are going to enable both Ethernet and COAX from the ONT at the same time we might have something but I don't see that happening, even if the current Westell modems are capable.
reply
majortom1029 @ 1st May 04:07PM:
Re: Instead of nit picking how about asking...
Also since cablevision is using a lot of cisco equipment they very well could be using the new d-pon cisco stuff.
This si equipment that does docsis 3 over coax and can have the last mile converted to fiber and still use cablemodems since it would emulate a docsis 3 network over fiber.
VErizon is scraed because they probably realised this is what cablevision could be doing and would be very bad news for verizon.
reply
jmn1207 @ 1st May 04:08PM:
Re: VZ should blow them away...
said by DarkLogix :
to do anything past 100 I think VZ would have to replace their fiber copper converter that they put on the house
I bet it only does 100base-t on the copper side
The Tellabs 1600-712 GPON supports 10/100/1000 over ethernet, but I'm not certain what the capabilities are for MoCA. Probably the same. My Alcatel can be provisioned for Gigabit service.
If I had to guess, it seems that the GPON ONT's can definitely be configured for up to a Gigabit on the customer side.
reply
Anonymous_ @ 1st May 04:12PM:
Re: Someone's being paid
said by FHBroadband :
Time Warner vs FIOS.
Time Warner is REAL FIBER here. Yes, I can touch it, smell it and feel it. It is fiber optics to right in front of the building.
RCN is fiber as well to the basement of the complex.
Verizon FIOS pretends its some new fiber network, it is not.
TWC =FTTP
RCN =FTTP
VZ FTTH
:p (well for you anyways)
normal areas TWC/RCN =FTTN + Last mile copper
VZ FTTH = 100# into your house
reply
RARPSL @ 1st May 04:12PM:
Re: I love competition!
said by Jeffrey :
I find it a little annoying that a second modem is required for their Optimum Phone offering on this new tier. There is probably a good reason for that, one which is more than likely over my head. :)
There is a very simple reason. CV decided to go with the Cisco DPC3000 which unlike their DOCSIS2 Modems does not come have a VoIP version instead of the Motorola SB6120 and VoIP SBV6220.
WHY they went with the Cisco not the Motorola (or with both such as offering the SBV6220 for VoIP+OOL Ultra and the DPC3000 for OOL-Only) is the real question. The answer to which only CV knows.
reply
jmn1207 @ 1st May 04:13PM:
Re: ONTs are FIOS' bottleneck
said by GadgetVirtu :
If Verizon intends to offer 100mb anything they are going to need to increase the bandwidth from the ONT. I've got a 10/100/1000 router but the best I could do is 100mb from the ONT, some of which will be used by STBs. Now if they are going to enable both Ethernet and COAX from the ONT at the same time we might have something but I don't see that happening, even if the current Westell modems are capable.
The GPON ONT's appear to have the capability to be provisioned for Gigabit speeds, at least the Alcatel at my house seems to have this ability.
reply
Shamayim @ 1st May 04:14PM:
Re: Just a point
"100 Mbps - $94.50"
"All speeds are symmetric"
That IS nice.
reply
dealing3000 @ 1st May 04:14PM:
Re: Ain't competition grand?
$32 for 15/2? That is a relative bargain compared to what the rest of the non CV portion of the country has to spend on broadband. Prices will not come down, you need to realize that no one, not Verizon, not CV, NO ONE will lower prices. They will entice you with higher speeds for more $$. These guys are trying to protect revenue, not destroy it. If a CEO tells an analyst he is going to lower prices on his tier of broadband he will get destroyed on Wall Street. Is not going to happen. Business 101, keep raising prices and offering more for the $$ as a way to combat competition. CVs move is very smart as they will get a solid % of power users to upgrade thus gaining more revenue. If you are so concerned with price move to Net Zero dial up!
reply
jmn1207 @ 1st May 04:20PM:
Re: Just a point
Yes it is. I almost thought it was a joke site when I first saw it until a subscriber posted a speed test in the Comcast forum.
This is my favorite line from their marketing page:
"With PAXIO the speed you sign up for is the speed you get. No claims of "up to" a certain speed as with cable or DSL. You always get the speed you pay for regardless of bandwidth load or time of day."
reply
FastiBook @ 1st May 04:26PM:
The newest tactic......
The newest tactic in competing with FIOS seems to be pretending it doesn't exist... Will it work? Seeing as i have both comcast & vz (catv & fios) i don't think so. I want vztv.
- A
--
LETS GO METS!
reply
anon @ 1st May 04:30PM:
Re: Instead of nit picking how about asking...
Are you suggesting that verizon use cat5 or fiber to the TV set?
Coax is a standard there, probably will be for some time, this does not diminish their capacity as that coax in your house is significantly less burdened than the coax coming from the cable plant.
reply
Smith6612 @ 1st May 04:33PM:
Re: Someone's being paid
lol....
reply
Eat Me @ 1st May 04:34PM:
Re: Instead of nit picking how about asking...
said by delusion ftl :
Are you suggesting that verizon use cat5 or fiber to the TV set?
Coax is a standard there, probably will be for some time, this does not diminish their capacity as that coax in your house is significantly less burdened than the coax coming from the cable plant.
True enough but on the actual outside plant they can only do 480ish Mbps (400 with overhead) before they have to oversubscribe the last mile, just like cable. This is with GPON, not BPON.
They can upgrade, but so can cable.
This is why the "wars" are meaningless. Cable, especially Cablevision, has an advanced fiber network in place that can be easily upgraded. So does Verizon now. They are more or less on equal ground.
reply
Smith6612 @ 1st May 04:34PM:
Re: VZ should blow them away...
MoCa I believe is rated up to 320Mbps via the Coax. Might be a bit high though.
reply
Shamayim @ 1st May 04:36PM:
Re: Just a point
said by jmn1207 :
"No claims of "up to" a certain speed . . . You always get the speed you pay for regardless of bandwidth load or time of day."
That's gold :)
edit: and if you actually use the speed you pay for no one will call you a 'bandwidth hog.'
--
Who is Jesus? and Why it matters (to YOU).
reply
Eat Me @ 1st May 04:37PM:
Re: Someone's being paid
said by Anonymous_ :said by FHBroadband :
Time Warner vs FIOS.
Time Warner is REAL FIBER here. Yes, I can touch it, smell it and feel it. It is fiber optics to right in front of the building.
RCN is fiber as well to the basement of the complex.
Verizon FIOS pretends its some new fiber network, it is not.
TWC =FTTP
RCN =FTTP
VZ FTTH
:p (well for you anyways)
normal areas TWC/RCN =FTTN + Last mile copper
VZ FTTH = 100# into your house
And when it reaches your house it's converted to coax or UTP (cat5)
reply
Eat Me @ 1st May 04:38PM:
Re: ONTs are FIOS' bottleneck
said by jmn1207 :said by GadgetVirtu :
If Verizon intends to offer 100mb anything they are going to need to increase the bandwidth from the ONT. I've got a 10/100/1000 router but the best I could do is 100mb from the ONT, some of which will be used by STBs. Now if they are going to enable both Ethernet and COAX from the ONT at the same time we might have something but I don't see that happening, even if the current Westell modems are capable.
The GPON ONT's appear to have the capability to be provisioned for Gigabit speeds, at least the Alcatel at my house seems to have this ability.
That is true, but the last mile can only go 400Mbps without being oversubscribed.
reply
Anonymous_ @ 1st May 04:40PM:
Re: Someone's being paid
said by Eat Me :said by Anonymous_ :said by FHBroadband :
Time Warner vs FIOS.
Time Warner is REAL FIBER here. Yes, I can touch it, smell it and feel it. It is fiber optics to right in front of the building.
RCN is fiber as well to the basement of the complex.
Verizon FIOS pretends its some new fiber network, it is not.
TWC =FTTP
RCN =FTTP
VZ FTTH
:p (well for you anyways)
normal areas TWC/RCN =FTTN + Last mile copper
VZ FTTH = 100# into your house
And when it reaches your house it's converted to coax or UTP (cat5)
just get a fiber network card
reply
Hpower @ 1st May 04:43PM:
Re: Someone's being paid
"touch it, smell it and feel it." that made me laugh :P
--
The Internet is about to go down....it is actually.
reply
baineschile @ 1st May 04:43PM:
Re: Someone's being paid
Someone, just do it already.
FTTD
(Fiber To The Desktop)
reply
majortom1029 @ 1st May 04:54PM:
Re: "Until the speed tests roll in"
Speedtest.net gives me about 90/60 on our 100/100 line.
reply
majortom1029 @ 1st May 04:55PM:
Re: The newest tactic......
Maybe for comcast but not for cablevision.
reply
vinnie97 @ 1st May 04:59PM:
Re: Instead of nit picking how about asking...
Where does this leave AT&T? ;)
reply
jmn1207 @ 1st May 05:04PM:
Re: ONTs are FIOS' bottleneck
said by Eat Me :said by jmn1207 :said by GadgetVirtu :
If Verizon intends to offer 100mb anything they are going to need to increase the bandwidth from the ONT. I've got a 10/100/1000 router but the best I could do is 100mb from the ONT, some of which will be used by STBs. Now if they are going to enable both Ethernet and COAX from the ONT at the same time we might have something but I don't see that happening, even if the current Westell modems are capable.
The GPON ONT's appear to have the capability to be provisioned for Gigabit speeds, at least the Alcatel at my house seems to have this ability.
That is true, but the last mile can only go 400Mbps without being oversubscribed.
Since when has oversubscription prevented anyone from offering those speeds? :D
reply
S_engineer @ 1st May 05:06PM:
Re: Someone's being paid
said by Hpower :
"touch it, smell it and feel it."
Time Warner…the new aphrodisiac!
You REALLY need to get out more!
reply
Shamayim @ 1st May 05:14PM:
Re: "Until the speed tests roll in"
Do you consider that reliable?
reply
Skippy25 @ 1st May 05:15PM:
Re: Instead of nit picking how about asking...
Shorter copper distances is a HUGH factor over long runs. There is a reason Cat5/6/7 and coax cable is quite limited in feet that it service a desktop from a switch.
Coax can never compete with fiber on long runs and having copper as the last 200 feet is irrelevant in the world of networks even at 10gb speeds.
Unless there is an issue with distance or outside interference, running fiber to your desktop and using a fiber card is nothing more than a waste of money in a local network.
reply
pspcrazy @ 1st May 05:20PM:
Re: Someone's being paid
I would plunk it down just out of pure respect for them having the most aggressive speeds on the market :) 100 /100 for 100 a month is where usa should be at :) Who cares it we don't use it now, the key is that we'll be able to use it if needed.
reply
RadioDoc @ 1st May 05:22PM:
Everytime I read about this that damn Chesterfield jingle...
...starts playing in my head.
A silly millimeter longer, 101
»www.youtube.com/watch?v=mWtls7zgDiQ
reply
anon @ 1st May 05:34PM:
Dark Spot On An Otherwise Good Launch
FiOS has taken off very well across most of the country except Cablevision territory. CVC has done a great job of branding using the Optimum names to distinguish itself from "cable". And they've kept on the leading edge technically speaking to keep their speeds very competitive. (And all the players would rather compete on speed than on price.)
Verizon needs MUCH better customer numbers in CVC territory to ever justify the investment there. I would bet the guy/gal in charge of that area for VZ is on the hot seat. Maybe the vacuum job VZ is doing in other parts of the country makes them whole overall. But they are way, way, WAY under water with their investment in CVC country and may never make it back. CVC isn't like most other MSOs. They hit hard and often and they love a street fight.
reply
hottboiinnc @ 1st May 06:08PM:
Re: Instead of nit picking how about asking...
have no clue but here they're promoting their VDSL service as their FTTH product.
reply
netcool @ 1st May 06:17PM:
Re: I love competition!
said by RARPSL :
WHY they went with the Cisco not the Motorola (or with both such as offering the SBV6220 for VoIP+OOL Ultra and the DPC3000 for OOL-Only) is the real question. The answer to which only CV knows.
They probably got a really good deal on them for buying all Cisco 10012 CMTS'.
reply
Tzale @ 1st May 06:28PM:
Broadband
I think for the most part as we increase last mile broadband bandwidth, we're going to see less and less cost benefit to the average consumer... Unless you are hardcore into P2P, 10-30mbps is more than most consumers need.... I'd expect 50 & 100mbps to become the longtime tiers once the tech/costs reaches the point that allows everyone to get such bandwidth at home....
1gbps is just overkill for consumers today...
-Tzale
--
They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.
-:-
"I believe the very heart and soul of conservatism is libertarianism."~Ronald Reagan
reply
Ignite @ 1st May 06:29PM:
Re: Instead of nit picking how about asking...
said by Eat Me :
True enough but on the actual outside plant they can only do 480ish Mbps (400 with overhead) before they have to oversubscribe the last mile, just like cable. This is with GPON, not BPON.
They can upgrade, but so can cable.
This is why the "wars" are meaningless. Cable, especially Cablevision, has an advanced fiber network in place that can be easily upgraded. So does Verizon now. They are more or less on equal ground.
I'm not sure what you're referring to here. Of course both oversubscribe their networks, that's how it goes, however there's rather a lot of difference between oversubscribing 2.4Gbit / 1.2Gbit 32 ways (75Mbit / 37.5Mbit per home) and oversubscribing 152Mbit / 27Mbit 100+ ways absolute best case it's likely to be more. Even with bonded upstreams you're still only dealing with 152/108, and even on 8/4 the best available right now 304/108.
Cable can't flick a switch and be GPON or close in terms of unicast bandwidth per home passed. It'll be a very long time before they are.
I also don't understand the comments about oversubscription, networks are oversubscribed, it's about if people see actual contention.
Incidentally if you think every node will have dedicated to it 4 downstreams and 4 upstreams you're kidding yourself. They will be spreading the bonded group across multiple nodes and likely only have room on the return path for a single upstream per node.
reply
Tzale @ 1st May 06:30PM:
Re: ONTs are FIOS' bottleneck
said by Eat Me :said by jmn1207 :said by GadgetVirtu :
If Verizon intends to offer 100mb anything they are going to need to increase the bandwidth from the ONT. I've got a 10/100/1000 router but the best I could do is 100mb from the ONT, some of which will be used by STBs. Now if they are going to enable both Ethernet and COAX from the ONT at the same time we might have something but I don't see that happening, even if the current Westell modems are capable.
The GPON ONT's appear to have the capability to be provisioned for Gigabit speeds, at least the Alcatel at my house seems to have this ability.
That is true, but the last mile can only go 400Mbps without being oversubscribed.
It can easily be expanded.... And if they offered 1gbps (or close to it) in the future, then "overselling" would be expected..... I seriously doubt ANYONE could use that much bandwidth within the next decade or so.... Perhaps once holographic movies become the norm for entertainment.
-Tzale
--
They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.
-:-
"I believe the very heart and soul of conservatism is libertarianism."~Ronald Reagan
reply
PapaMidnight @ 1st May 06:54PM:
Re: Someone's being paid
said by Chris 313 :said by pspcrazy :Well it seems like someone's being paid off, or their just plain ignorant lol. Shame on you PC world. Lol not even knowing that 101 mbit is the fastest multi state residential in the U.S in quite funny.
Note that there is 1 faster then them only in santa barbara and around that area:
Paxio: »
paxio.com/home.php?link=InternetThey offer 1 GBPS resedential, oh it would be a dream.
Exactly! You wanna plunk down 250 a month for gig both ways internet, and you have something that could eat just about 30 somethings at the same time and still have room to spare.
After all, unless you use something like Flashget, you are limited to whatever a server can push out. What is it these days, 45-50Mbits? If a lot more people went for 100+ connections, I could definitely see myself doing several things at once besides this one download I'm working on at that moment.
I've got no issue bringing down 100mbits full rate from servers I visit regularly. I see no reason why anyone else should.
»i41.tinypic.com/35252zk.jpg
reply
PapaMidnight @ 1st May 06:55PM:
Re: Someone's being paid
said by FHBroadband :
Time Warner vs FIOS.
Time Warner is REAL FIBER here. Yes, I can touch it, smell it and feel it. It is fiber optics to right in front of the building.
RCN is fiber as well to the basement of the complex.
Verizon FIOS pretends its some new fiber network, it is not.
Okay, so you've got Fiber to the Node. Awesome.
Verizon builds fiber straight to the ONT which sits on your very unit.
There is a big difference. One relies on coaxial and/or copper to run the last mile, one doesn't.
reply
PapaMidnight @ 1st May 06:56PM:
Re: Someone's being paid
said by Eat Me :said by Anonymous_ :said by FHBroadband :
Time Warner vs FIOS.
Time Warner is REAL FIBER here. Yes, I can touch it, smell it and feel it. It is fiber optics to right in front of the building.
RCN is fiber as well to the basement of the complex.
Verizon FIOS pretends its some new fiber network, it is not.
TWC =FTTP
RCN =FTTP
VZ FTTH
:p (well for you anyways)
normal areas TWC/RCN =FTTN + Last mile copper
VZ FTTH = 100# into your house
And when it reaches your house it's converted to coax or UTP (cat5)
Or cat6e. The point is that the scalability is there and available.
reply
anon @ 1st May 07:06PM:
HEy WHAT ABOUT TERABYTE BROADBAND SPEED?
No one asking about terabyte download and upload speed.
reply
patcat88 @ 1st May 07:11PM:
Re: Someone's being paid
said by Anonymous_ :
just get a fiber network card
But the ONT doesn't have a 1000-SX port!!!!
reply
viperlmw @ 1st May 07:12PM:
Re: Just a point
said by DarkLogix :
the ad was for business but I think they are going to offer the same speed to resi
but ya if you only look at business service then OC beats the **** outa it (oh wouldn't it be nice to have OC768 ie 40gig)
Yea, but it would probably come with a 10GB cap!
reply
Bobcat @ 1st May 07:16PM:
Re: Ain't competition grand?
$32 for Verizon DSL 3M/768k. CV used to be $29 for 10/1. Then they raised the price to $45, and Verizon was much cheaper, so I switched. A very good move, as my Verizon DSL is much more reliable than my OOL was.
--
It's nice to be important, but it's more important to be nice.
reply
patcat88 @ 1st May 07:21PM:
Re: Just a point
said by Shamayim :said by jmn1207 :
"No claims of "up to" a certain speed . . . You always get the speed you pay for regardless of bandwidth load or time of day."
That's
gold :)
edit: and if you actually
use the speed you pay for no one will call you a 'bandwidth hog.'
I don't believe that. A couple of your $300 customers can saturate your $40K 10 gigabit Tier 1 upstream connection.
reply
patcat88 @ 1st May 07:34PM:
Re: VZ should blow them away...
said by iansltx :
Then again, CV might strike back with NARAD. Yummy yummy...
NARAD is 100% dead, it was bought by a large telco equipment manufacturer (Ciena) for its patents to stop innovation of the idea.
The only FTTH upgrade/hack-on for HFC operators I know of is Aurora Networks.
reply
patcat88 @ 1st May 07:36PM:
Re: Ain't competition grand?
said by dealing3000 :
If you are so concerned with price move to Net Zero dial up!
Get a cantenna and start WEP cracking.
reply
patcat88 @ 1st May 07:39PM:
Re: ONTs are FIOS' bottleneck
said by Tzale :
It can easily be expanded.... And if they offered 1gbps (or close to it) in the future, then "overselling" would be expected..... I seriously doubt ANYONE could use that much bandwidth within the next decade or so.... Perhaps once holographic movies become the norm for entertainment.
-Tzale
Newsgroups, 1 click file hosting?
And P2P can saturate an upload until your HD (better invest in RAID) chokes. I've done 70 mbitps uploads. Non-stop disk thrashing.
reply
Monie @ 1st May 08:05PM:
FiOS needs to come rollin' into NC
Verizon should have FiOS in NC :D
reply
Tzale @ 1st May 08:24PM:
Re: ONTs are FIOS' bottleneck
said by patcat88 :said by Tzale :
It can easily be expanded.... And if they offered 1gbps (or close to it) in the future, then "overselling" would be expected..... I seriously doubt ANYONE could use that much bandwidth within the next decade or so.... Perhaps once holographic movies become the norm for entertainment.
-Tzale
Newsgroups, 1 click file hosting?
And P2P can saturate an upload until your HD (better invest in RAID) chokes. I've done 70 mbitps uploads. Non-stop disk thrashing.
I seriously doubt anyone could need 1gbps... And either way, it is absurd to be demanding 1gbps today.... Even the most hardcore P2P users don't need that much bandwidth...
Maybe 10-20 years from now...
-Tzale
--
They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.
-:-
"I believe the very heart and soul of conservatism is libertarianism."~Ronald Reagan
reply
majortom1029 @ 1st May 08:30PM:
Re: Instead of nit picking how about asking...
Well if cablevision is using cisco equipment they only have to upgrade last mile to fiber.
Cisco i think is now selling d-pon equipment. When ready all you have to do is replace the last mile with fiber. Even the cable modem can stay.
So if cablevision is using this new equipment they might be set for a long time.
reply
anon @ 1st May 08:47PM:
Re: HEy WHAT ABOUT TERABYTE BROADBAND SPEED?
LMAO
reply
jmn1207 @ 1st May 09:02PM:
Re: Instead of nit picking how about asking...
said by majortom1029 :
Well if cablevision is using cisco equipment they only have to upgrade last mile to fiber.
Cisco i think is now selling d-pon equipment. When ready all you have to do is replace the last mile with fiber. Even the cable modem can stay.
So if cablevision is using this new equipment they might be set for a long time.
If they already have widely distributed this Cisco DPON equipment, then they have spent a considerable amount of money to make this happen. Running fiber the last mile is not something to take lightly, otherwise everyone would be doing it with smiles on their faces. In the end, if Cablevision is not able to keep their costs down, they can't hope to outlast Verizon in a lengthy pricing war. They just aren't big enough to keep up, and Verizon has their wireless business to supplement things until the smoke clears.
Hopefully for Cablevision this new 101/15 package is not just a last, desperate attempt to keep their heads above water.
reply
Madness @ 1st May 09:27PM:
Re: Someone's being paid
He was probably thinking of something I won't mention here. ;)
reply
anon @ 1st May 09:32PM:
Re: Someone's being paid
said by PapaMidnight :I've got no issue bringing down 100mbits full rate from servers I visit regularly. I see no reason why anyone else should.
»
i41.tinypic.com/35252zk.jpg Your linked screen shot shows 8.07 megabytes per second which is 64 megabits per second or about 64% of 100 mbps... are you sure you don't have an issue?
reply
hottboiinnc @ 1st May 10:05PM:
Re: Ain't competition grand?
and i'm sure CableVision was happy to see you leave.
reply
Core0000 @ 1st May 10:07PM:
Re: Someone's being paid
Whoa! That's amazing!
It's sad how.. it cost me 44.34 for 2.0-2.5ish Mb d, and 384k up from Windstream aka 'slow stream'.. and over there you can get 20 megs down and up.. for just a dash more..
*Sighs*
I am green with envy. :huh:
On a side note.. This is why the internet is great, you can learn about so many wonderful things you can't have. :(
reply
hottboiinnc @ 1st May 10:08PM:
Re: VZ should blow them away...
Ciena also makes equipment for MSOs not just telcos.
reply
Rasstar @ 1st May 10:37PM:
Re: Someone's being paid
I can only see a few people willing to pay $99.00 for internet service. I already think $44.95 is too much.
reply
patcat88 @ 2nd May 12:42AM:
Re: VZ should blow them away...
I only saw fiber equipment that maybe MSOs could use. I saw no coax or broadcast TV or MPEG or DOCSIS equipment on their site.
They seem to target telcos, DSL, RTs, SONET, fiber optic multiplexers, their MSO products are just telco products an MSO could use in their SLAed business broadband side business.
reply
RARPSL @ 2nd May 12:55AM:
Re: I love competition!
said by Jeffrey :said by jpr281 :said by Jeffrey :
I find it a little annoying that a second modem is required for their Optimum Phone offering on this new tier. There is probably a good reason for that, one which is more than likely over my head. :)
CV currently does not carry a DOCSIS 3 (which is needed for the 100 Mb/s speed) modem that has ethernet and phone ports (for VoIP). They might be looking to add
this modem on or soon after May 11.
Now, that's a horse of a different color. :) Thanks for the info!
That is because Cisco apparently does not feel that there is a need for them to make a DOCSIS3 VoIP Modem (although they DID have Non-ViOP and ViOP Modems for their DOCSIS2 Line).
Motorola OTOH has both types of D3 Modems. There is the SB6120 Non-VoIP and 2 ViOP SBV6220 ones - One with a Built-In Battery and one without.
reply
dvd536 @ 2nd May 02:01AM:
Re: I love competition!
said by jadebangle :
surewest charges me 53.99 for 10mbps and 91.99 for 20mbps
But unlike surewest, cablevisions and verizons product don't have transfer caps!
--
When I gez aju zavateh na nalechoo more new yonooz tonigh molinigh - Ken Lee
reply
Anonymous_ @ 2nd May 02:26AM:
Re: Someone's being paid
sooner or later they will offer a network card for it
reply
jwalk @ 2nd May 09:04AM:
Verizon's Cablevision Snark Fest Continues
looks nice.
reply
tmc8080 @ 2nd May 11:38AM:
cheap shots..
who is the target market for 101/15 anyways, is it boost cusotmers? residential? commerical? both? i know most of us normal subscribers are begging for lower prices on the service they already got. verizon may as well take a hint and look at their pricing again and see it's dated.. as in 2006 pricing. btw, where's that voip offering? i hear alot about the "iphone" but not the voip-phone... pfft! both companies need to offer lower prices on lower speed tiers and bundles without promotional contracts (which encourage churn)
wouldn't bbr forum love a transcript (to be the fly on the wall) when a customer calls verizon to cancel service to switch to ool and the customer says mabye they'll subscribe to that 101mbit plan seeing as verizon won't respond with their own plan.
reply
RadioDoc @ 2nd May 02:58PM:
Re: cheap shots..
said by tmc8080 :
who is the target market for 101/15 anyways
Stockholders.
reply
Eat Me @ 2nd May 04:57PM:
Re: Instead of nit picking how about asking...
They can absolutely "flick a switch." D3 is a simple headend upgrade in most cases. Furthermore, core fiber is already there and with expansion to 1GHz and node splits there is plenty of bandwidth to compete.
As for D3's speeds, it specifies 8 bonded channels now but the spec is open ended. As for shared bandwidth, CVC already separates customers on the same node. Boost subs are on a separate set of QAMs from regular OOL.
Furthermore, when it is time for FTTH, cable can implement it with much less expenditure in the cable plant than VZ had to do with fiber.
One thing you fanboys seem to forget is that modern cable systems are already MOSTLY fiber. The remaining coax can easily be replaced with fiber at a moment's notice. That wasn't the case with the copper pairs that VZ had/has in its wireline business. VZ had to build a whole new network from scratch, and it took them years after much foot dragging. Cable can do this in a fraction of the time and still end up with a wider footprint. But why would they right now? There's really no need for most home users past 10Mbit or even 5 Mbit for many. You guys keep talking about gigabit, but a lot of top websites don't even use a gigabit of bandwidth during their daily traffic peaks, except for big, unusual spikes. The average home user has NO use for a gig internet connection. Maybe in the next 5 years but not now.
reply
Eat Me @ 2nd May 05:01PM:
Re: Instead of nit picking how about asking...
It's still more cost effective to use an existing coax plant than to run fiber, especially given that no one is really offering more than 101Mbit in the US.
Remember that any business is all about the shareholders, not the fanboys at DSLR.
reply
anon @ 2nd May 05:08PM:
Re: Instead of nit picking how about asking...
You really have no idea!!! what cost the most money is the last mile. Also so are they going to tell everyone in a specific neighborood you are going to be out of service for a few weeks while the fiber is ran. Cable companys will have to maintain two cable plants during the cut over.
reply
submrge @ 2nd May 05:09PM:
Re: Instead of nit picking how about asking...
said by Eat Me :
One thing you fanboys seem to forget is that modern cable systems are already MOSTLY fiber. The remaining coax can easily be replaced with fiber at a moment's notice.
Uhh......... it really wouldn't be that easy for cable to extend fiber to the home. They still have thousands of plant miles of COAX feeder, mini bridgers, line extenders, taps etc.
For any cable co to offer FTTH they would most likely have to overbuild *themselves* - meaning, do what VZ did. Install more plant on top of the existing plant.
reply
PapaMidnight @ 2nd May 10:53PM:
Re: Someone's being paid
Considering it was bursting up and down, and considering Windows reserves another 20% of available bandwidth (link speed was 100mbps), I'm positive.
reply
PapaMidnight @ 2nd May 10:54PM:
Re: Someone's being paid
said by Rasstar :
I can only see a few people willing to pay $99.00 for internet service. I already think $44.95 is too much.
Why not? People pay $149 and over $200 for TV.
reply
PapaMidnight @ 2nd May 10:55PM:
Re: Instead of nit picking how about asking...
said by Bit :
..."Where is Verizon with their 102Mb response? Let VZ put up or shut up."
I can imagine if Intel vs AMD went down like this...
reply
Eat Me @ 3rd May 10:16AM:
Re: Instead of nit picking how about asking...
said by submrge :said by Eat Me :
One thing you fanboys seem to forget is that modern cable systems are already MOSTLY fiber. The remaining coax can easily be replaced with fiber at a moment's notice.
Uhh......... it really wouldn't be that easy for cable to extend fiber to the home. They still have thousands of plant miles of COAX feeder, mini bridgers, line extenders, taps etc.
For any cable co to offer FTTH they would most likely have to overbuild *themselves* - meaning, do what VZ did. Install more plant on top of the existing plant.
It will still be MUCH easier than what Verizon had to do.
But there is still plenty of life left in coax, and at the speeds/services Verizon is offering now, there's really no need to go FTTH just yet.
You fanboys are just upset that Verizon is getting some serious competition from a CABLE COMPANY. Bwahahahahaha!
reply
Eat Me @ 3rd May 10:18AM:
Re: Instead of nit picking how about asking...
said by anon10101010 :
You really have no idea!!! what cost the most money is the last mile. Also so are they going to tell everyone in a specific neighborood you are going to be out of service for a few weeks while the fiber is ran. Cable companys will have to maintain two cable plants during the cut over.
Nodes are already close to homes. They can overbuild the network quite easily if they wanted to go FTTH. Thing is that it's cheaper to just implement headend upgrades and do node splits which would put them on equal ground with Verizon's current offerings.
But when they do need to go FTTH, there is already a lot of dark fiber that they can use while cutting over. No one runs exactly how much fiber they need. They always run extra.
Cable isn't done by a long shot yet, fanboys.
reply
anon @ 3rd May 04:22PM:
Re: Someone's being paid
said by PapaMidnight :
Considering it was bursting up and down, and considering Windows reserves another 20% of available bandwidth (link speed was 100mbps), I'm positive.
Bursting I could see if I was looking at peaks and not averages, but why does Windows reserve another 20% of available bandwidth? That would mean 10 mpbs customers won't get above 8 and 20 mbps customer never above 16. Never heard of that...
reply
Eat Me @ 3rd May 05:20PM:
Re: I love competition!
I have a DPC2505 from SE Cable. My old D1 modem was a Motorola surfboard.
The DPC2505 seems like a more solid piece of gear than the moto modem.
The thing some people forget about OOL is that they go above and beyond just buying stock gear. At one time they were developing a proprietary system but abandoned that in favor of D3 I believe.
reply
Eat Me @ 3rd May 11:04PM:
Re: Instead of nit picking how about asking...
said by hottboiinnc :
have no clue but here they're promoting their VDSL service as their FTTH product.
So is Verizon. Just how do you think they do MDUs (apartment buildings) anyway?
reply
Eat Me @ 3rd May 11:09PM:
Re: Someone's being paid
said by PapaMidnight :
Or cat6e. The point is that the scalability is there and available.
Cable has scalability. You seem to forget that most of cable's network is already fiber.
reply
anon @ 4th May 12:51AM:
Predicting the future
Just so long as they don't cap it. Caps will kill IPTV, cloud computing,... hologram messaging :D I hope the general consumer continues to wisens up so that companies compete to remove whatever caps are in place. For the longest time Charter used the term "Meg" to describe its internet speeds. "10 Meg" .. thats 80Mbps right? Or 10 megabytes per month?
This is for all you who say the home user doesn't need 101Mbps:
»4.bp.blogspot.com/_pyL7-hhG_-A/R···nics.jpg
I like the steering wheel on this model.
reply
GadgetVirtu @ 19th May 11:52PM:
Re: ONTs are FIOS' bottleneck
I noticed my Trendnet is displaying a Gb connection to the ONT. We were just installed in mid-April 2009.
reply
joebarnhart @ 13th Jun 05:16AM:
Re: Speed Test?
Forgive me for chiming in on an old thread. But I am lucky enough to have Paxio 100/100 service (which I love) and I live to oblige those who ask for speed tests...
reply
jmn1207 @ 13th Jun 01:02PM:
Re: Speed Test?
Nice, but at least read the first sentence from my post.
reply
joebarnhart @ 13th Jun 04:11PM:
Re: Speed Test?
Well, from the Visualware site they have another speed test. It seems like a long test -- surely enough to get past any "boost" times if your provider does that trick (Paxio does not).
These results were somewhat compromised because my system kicked off an automatic backup while the test was running. (I re-ran them and they were only a little higher, see »mcssjc.visualware.com/myspeed/db···id=73393.)
Speed test statistics
---------------------
Download speed: 89160544 bps
Upload speed: 86288224 bps
Quality of service: 96 %
Download test type: socket
Upload test type: socket
Maximum download pause: 16 ms
Average download pause: 1 ms
Minimum round trip time to server: 2 ms
Average round trip time to server: 3 ms
Anyway, you can believe that Paxio is good or not. If I didn't have Paxio but could get FIOS I would not feel deprived. But Paxio is the real deal -- pure fiber w/o oversubscribing. 100% bandwidth, 100% of the time.
reply
jmn1207 @ 13th Jun 09:49PM:
Re: Speed Test?
I know Paxio is good, I've raved about it on more than one occasion on these very forums. I wish it were more widely available to others. My original comment was regarding those with boost and the inflated numbers reported from speed tests that take less than 30 seconds to come up with a score. In my post I offered a solution that anyone could try for free, that provided a more accurate test using real files.
Again, I believe Paxio is great, not simply good. I believe Cablevision and Comcast are good, too. It's just that with the cable company speed test results, those are inflated due to the boost included, and those speeds will drop after a short time. For me, with Comcast, the boost will only last for the first 20MB down and the first 10MB up. Typically this is more than enough to handle the short duration of any browser-based speed test most people use.
reply
Thank you for using lo-fi dslreports.com - report bugs
© 99-2009 silver matrix LLC
