Why We Have No National Broadband Policy - Because we can't even agree there's a problem
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Why We Have No National Broadband Policy
Because we can't even agree there's a problem
(old news - 09:16AM Thursday Apr 26 2007)
tags: competition · business · Op/Ed · stats
The OECD global broadband rankings released earlier this week showed the United States dropped further when it comes to broadband penetration. The politicized and polar response to the report is a prime example of why the nation has no broadband policy in place -- we simply cannot agree on how to proceed, much less come to a common understanding that there are issues regarding rural broadband deployment in America that may need addressing. A collection of opinions from the week:

•Municipal Broadband Attorney Jim Baller (who we've interviewed twice) has this to say:
"The great Adlai Stevenson once observed that Americans can't read the writing on the wall until their backs are up against it. How much worse must things get for America before we start to take seriously the need to develop a national broadband strategy and concrete action plans to implement it? Please reread our 8-step plan in the light of today's news."
•Democratic Commissioner Michael Copps:
"Every year brings more bad news as the United States slides farther down the broadband rankings. It's a national embarrassment and the only way to change it is to develop a broadband strategy like every other industrialized nation has already done. These rankings aren't a beauty contest -- they're about our competiiveness is a country and creating economic opportunity for all our people."
•Media Reform Group Free Press:
"The growing digital divide between the United States and the rest of the world will have real-world consequences," said S. Derek Turner, research director of Free Press. "The growth trends indicate that the United States is likely to continue to fall behind the rest of the world in broadband penetration, which will have lasting and significant effects on U.S. economic performance on the global stage."
•The National Cable and Telecommunications Association (NCTA):
"Deployment and adoption of high-speed Internet service in the U.S. is a success story that shouldn’t be portrayed as a failure because of misleading statistics -- Cable’s broadband service is available to at least 94 percent of all U.S. homes, McSlarrow pointed out. At the same time that broadband availability has increased, McSlarrow said, the speed of the service also has jumped while prices have declined."
•The NTIA and U.S. State Department:
"The U.S. Government took note this week of the publication by the OECD Information, Computers, and Communications Policy (ICCP) Committee's study on broadband use and the accompanying statistics on the use of broadband services in OECD member countries -- we are concerned about the methodology on which the new statistics were based, and their failure to capture important factors,particularly their reliance on user subscriptions as the measure of broadband use."
•Conservative Congressman Fred Upton:
"It is important to understand two things: first, the methodology that the OECD uses to produce these relative rankings and how it understates the actual level of broadband connections in the U.S.; and second, that this ranking reflects the fact that we are just now overcoming the anti-infrastructure, anti-investment and anti-broadband decisions made by the FCC in its implementation of the 1996 Act during the 1996-2002 timeframe."
•Industry-funded "Citizens Against Government Waste" (CAGW):
"Citizens Against Government Waste (CAGW) today urged Congress to say no to a national broadband policy and government intrusion of the Internet.The implementation of burdensome regulations, wasteful subsidies, and complicated tax breaks that other countries are imposing will only stifle growth and innovation. Competition and the free market must be allowed to continue to work."


There you have it. A broad consensus on how to proceed.

We're sure the comments below will further illuminate just how unified we all are on the issue.

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  6. Fairpoint Owes About $619 Million
  7. JD Power's Latest ISP Ratings
  8. There's Still No Evidence That Metered Billing Is Necessary
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Drakemoore @ 26th Apr 09:21AM:
Ummn.. right.

Deployment and adoption of high-speed Internet service in the U.S. is a success story that shouldn’t be portrayed as a failure because of misleading statistics -- Cable’s broadband service is available to at least 94 percent of all U.S. homes, McSlarrow pointed out. At the same time that broadband availability has increased, McSlarrow said, the speed of the service also has jumped while prices have declined."

94 Percent, Yeah right >.>

All raise their hand who thinks that's a load of crap

* Raises Hand*
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TScheisskopf @ 26th Apr 09:23AM:
Re: Ummn.. right.

/me raises hand

Furthermore, since when did Fred Upton have a comedy act? ;-)
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Cabal @ 26th Apr 09:26AM:
"Because we can't even agree there's a problem"

Well, at least I agree with something in these multiple articles. Can someone tell me again why we're expecting companies to roll out services and infrastructure to areas that will never even pay off the cost of that infrastructure in our lifetimes?
--
Interested in open source engine management for your Subaru?

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BosstonesOwn @ 26th Apr 09:30AM:
Re: Ummn.. right.

Hell the line about the prices going down and speed going up had me laughing more then the episode of seinfeld when kramer takes the school bus and converts it to a tour bus.

Funny fella right there. These folks should start a saturday night live clone tv show.
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pnh102 @ 26th Apr 09:31AM:
Amazing Cluelessness

Why do people continue to insist that the same government which legalized spam with the CAN-SPAM act, and is about to legalize spyware in the same manner, among other things, is in any way, shape or form able to "manage" our broadband.

If people want a guarantee that the best broadband we will ever get is a half working dialup connection on a good day, once a month, then by all means, pass a national broadband policy.

For some people to continue to insist that the government is the answer to every perceived problem even though we know of the government's track record in this department, is a textbook illustration of insanity.
--
Only SHATNER is Kirk.

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TKJunkMail @ 26th Apr 09:39AM:
Re: "Because we can't even agree there's a problem"

said by Cabal :

Well, at least I agree with something in these multiple articles. Can someone tell me again why we're expecting companies to roll out services and infrastructure to areas that will never even pay off the cost of that infrastructure in our lifetimes?
Those who want this BB policy expect the taxpayers to pay for broadband to every little rural whistle stop and farmhouse, and damn the cost. In other words, become more of a socialist country than we already are.
--
--
Internet News
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major marco @ 26th Apr 09:51AM:
This would be funny if it wasn't so pathetic

Hahahahahahahahahahahaha. A national broadband policy? You gotta be shitting me. The only way the U.S. will see such a beast is if the telcos give the OK to their well paid errand boy at the FCC and the whores in Congre$$ get something extra in their campaign coffers. Otherwise, you can forget about any kind of policy, least of all, one that benefits consumers.
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BosstonesOwn @ 26th Apr 10:04AM:
Re: "Because we can't even agree there's a problem"

said by TKJunkMail :

said by Cabal :

Well, at least I agree with something in these multiple articles. Can someone tell me again why we're expecting companies to roll out services and infrastructure to areas that will never even pay off the cost of that infrastructure in our lifetimes?
Those who want this BB policy expect the taxpayers to pay for broadband to every little rural whistle stop and farmhouse, and damn the cost. In other words, become more of a socialist country than we already are.
Mine as well be more socialist.

I mean really we have so many problems not addressed at this point whats one more in the pot.

Why can't we take the usf slush fund and actually use it for something other then letting the companies dip in to make their bottom line look better.
--
"It's always funny until someone gets hurt......and then it's absolutely friggin' hysterical!"

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garmst @ 26th Apr 10:06AM:
BLAH - BLAH!

Virtually the only complaints I hear about BB availability are in this site. I have only heard about two complaints about BB speed or availability in many years. One was when my sister switched from Adelphia to Verizon to save money (she could have switched back if she really wanted to). Another was a friend in New Mexico who was outside the city and she got satellite (while not wonderful she still got access).

We do need more competition, and it certainly seems to be in the pipeline. The market and some reasonable GOV/FCC actions(and some inaction?) will hopefully allow this in the end.
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ColorBASIC @ 26th Apr 10:06AM:
Priorities people

F a BB policy...how about a traffic policy or energy policy. There are so many other issues that impact quality of life far more than someone not being able to get low latency broadband. The gov't needs to quit wasting time an money worrying about BS like this.

For those without BB, tough. Move. Everyone when chosing their place to live has many considerations. For me it was closeness to work, schools, shopping, freeways, crime rate and BROADBAND AVAILABILITY.

Whining about not having low latency broadband (since virtually EVERYONE can get sat BB) is like moving next to the airport THEN bitching about the traffic and noise.
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sparks @ 26th Apr 10:07AM:
Re: This would be funny if it wasn't so pathetic

everything is the old mighty buck.
The cable and bells buy a senator and tell them what to say and what to think.
We are the highest price and lowest speeds in the world.
BUT we are told that we are the best, of course we are, now remember senator (fill in name) the money we gave you was to educate you on the problems of the consumer and to look the other way when we do this or that.
HELL in this country replace cable and bells with ANY company.

its a shame really but the stupid americans just sit and take it...why I am watching the game I don't have time to think...thats what my elected officials do for me.
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wentlanc @ 26th Apr 10:22AM:
Re: Priorities people

Here's an idea. Put your money where your mouth is. Don't want to hear about problems with broadband, then move your ignorant ass off of a broadband forum, and go to an energy forum instead. Seriously, WTF is in your address bar, and why are you surprised?

Who said anything about low latency? We're talking about penetration, speed, and fair competition. Not the current profit saving stranglehold that is in place today.
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major marco @ 26th Apr 10:29AM:
Re: BLAH - BLAH!

said by garmst :

Virtually the only complaints I hear about BB availability are in this site.
Apparently you must lead a very sheltered life if you haven't bothered to look beyond this site for broadband complaints.
--
The Toll


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jytr @ 26th Apr 10:38AM:
Re: "Because we can't even agree there's a problem"

Socialism for the wealthy and capitalism for the rest of us.

Peace

"America. Home of the free and enslaved" (C) 2007 James T. Romano
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johnh123 @ 26th Apr 10:39AM:
Re: This would be funny if it wasn't so pathetic

said by sparks :

We are the highest price and lowest speeds in the world.

Lowest speeds? I don't think so. Check out the stats on speedtest.net
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major marco @ 26th Apr 10:49AM:
Re: This would be funny if it wasn't so pathetic

said by johnh123 :

Lowest speeds? I don't think so. Check out the stats on speedtest.net
Don't be so selectively obtuse. The lowest speed compared to other countries. :uhh:
--
The Toll


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scrummie02 @ 26th Apr 11:04AM:
Re: Amazing Cluelessness

People that also complain the same government that wants to tap our lines and listen to us should also be the same ones that lay down and manage broadband we well.
--
"I hate conservatives, but I really hate liberals." - Matt Stone
»www.reason.com/

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scrummie02 @ 26th Apr 11:09AM:
Re: BLAH - BLAH!

amazingly the first few hits are about UK or Australian providers or older complaints...thus corroborating what he said.
--
"I hate conservatives, but I really hate liberals." - Matt Stone
»www.reason.com/

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marigolds @ 26th Apr 11:11AM:
Re: Amazing Cluelessness

The problem here is that the market is clearly not able to achieve the goals being set out.
There is no information transparency. There is poor accounting of benefits. There are rapidly developing monopoly situations. The market failures in the broadband market are all over the place.

Hence, this is a situation that calls for government intervention to solve. Right now though, we clearly suffer a rational ignorance failure (as this article demonstrates well), as well as heavy rent seeking and a short time horizon (see how many times complaints appear in this thread about recouping infrastructure costs in rural areas over a long time frame). The government failures are so clear it is almost laughable. We need to have government intervention against the market failures (and only against the market failures), clear legislative rational ignorance through non-governmental research support, push to eliminate rent seeking by regulated entities (all regulated entities), and most importantly extend our broadband deployment cost recovering time frame across multiple lifetimes.

If we do that, the issue will be solved and solved for a fraction of the cost of electric and phone deployment.
--
ISCABBS - the oldest and largest BBS on the Internet
telnet://bbs.iscabbs.com
Professional Geographer
Geographic Information Science researcher

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RadioDoc @ 26th Apr 11:12AM:
Re: "Because we can't even agree there's a problem"

Bah. We don't need to do anything. Just ask the NCTA. They say only 6% of the country is not wired for cable broadband right now!
--
Toolmaster of La Grange.

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scrummie02 @ 26th Apr 11:12AM:
Re: Priorities people

So high gas prices, high debt, high medical costs and crazy Islamists are less important than some farmer in Kentucky getting his broadband?

He is merely stating his opinion, obviously one you disagree with. You calling him names makes you seem ignorant not him.
--
"I hate conservatives, but I really hate liberals." - Matt Stone
»www.reason.com/

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marigolds @ 26th Apr 11:17AM:
Re: "Because we can't even agree there's a problem"

said by TKJunkMail :

Those who want this BB policy expect the taxpayers to pay for broadband to every little rural whistle stop and farmhouse, and damn the cost. In other words, become more of a socialist country than we already are.
Leaving out Alaska, which is like addressing another country all by itself, what is the farthest distance in the continental United States from a metropolitan statistical area (including all MSAs, CMSAs, and PMSAs)?
In other words, how much of a "whistle stop and farmhouse" are we talking about?
--
ISCABBS - the oldest and largest BBS on the Internet
telnet://bbs.iscabbs.com
Professional Geographer
Geographic Information Science researcher

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marigolds @ 26th Apr 11:24AM:
Re: Priorities people

said by scrummie02 :

So high gas prices, high debt, high medical costs and crazy Islamists are less important than some farmer in Kentucky getting his broadband?
That's four issues more important than broadband. Now, how about the other 11956 issues Congress is dealing with (and that is just the ones with authorized CSRs).
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ColorBASIC @ 26th Apr 11:26AM:
Re: Priorities people

said by wentlanc :

Who said anything about low latency? We're talking about penetration, speed, and fair competition. Not the current profit saving stranglehold that is in place today.
I did because satellite broadband is has nearly 100% nationwide coverage. If installed correctly it works great. I had DRS satellite (AOL/DirecPC SATMEX5) for a few years and it worked great for everything but massive downloading and gaming. With concurrent connections I saw 3Mb from it.

If they want BB and can't get DSL or cable HSI, get satellite and STFU. If they're are a BW hog or need low latency BB, they can pick their lazy asses up and move to where they can get it. Or better yet, they can start a WISP instead of expecting Joe Taxpayer to fund their luxuries.
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Sammer @ 26th Apr 11:42AM:
Re: "Why can't we take the usf slush fund and ..."

said by BosstonesOwn :

Why can't we take the usf slush fund and actually use it for something other then letting the companies dip in to make their bottom line look better.
Yes, why are we still spending zillions to make universal landline voice service available to anyone who can afford to pay the monthly bill?
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richardpor @ 26th Apr 11:47AM:
Re: "Because we can't even agree there's a problem"

said by TKJunkMail :

said by Cabal :

Well, at least I agree with something in these multiple articles. Can someone tell me again why we're expecting companies to roll out services and infrastructure to areas that will never even pay off the cost of that infrastructure in our lifetimes?
Those who want this BB policy expect the taxpayers to pay for broadband to every little rural whistle stop and farmhouse, and damn the cost. In other words, become more of a socialist country than we already are.
You forgot one import item the broadband socialist want with a national broadband policy: price controls. They want their cake but do not even want to pay wholesale.
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batterup @ 26th Apr 11:49AM:
Number 1 for 90 years.

The US of A was by far number 1 in communication for 90 years. What was the national POTS policy? The policy was a 6% profit, no more no less for a regulated monopoly.

Ma Bell is dead and yet the people bitch.




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Sammer @ 26th Apr 11:53AM:
Re: Priorities people

said by scrummie02 :

So high gas prices, high debt, high medical costs and crazy Islamists are less important than some farmer in Kentucky getting his broadband?

He is merely stating his opinion, obviously one you disagree with. You calling him names makes you seem ignorant not him.
It may not seem like one farmer in KY matters but if all the farmers in the country went out of business what were you planning to eat?
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major marco @ 26th Apr 11:55AM:
Re: Number 1 for 90 years.

said by batterup :

Ma Bell is dead and yet the people bitch.

And slowly the Death Star continues to reassemble itself...
--
The Toll


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Fox McCloud @ 26th Apr 11:59AM:
Re: Ummn.. right.

said by Drakemoore :

Deployment and adoption of high-speed Internet service in the U.S. is a success story that shouldn’t be portrayed as a failure because of misleading statistics -- Cable’s broadband service is available to at least 94 percent of all U.S. homes, McSlarrow pointed out. At the same time that broadband availability has increased, McSlarrow said, the speed of the service also has jumped while prices have declined."

94 Percent, Yeah right >.>

All raise their hand who thinks that's a load of crap

* Raises Hand*
so you're saying that only 18,000,000 don't have access to cable? I find that number exceedingly too long; I'd venture to guess that 70%-80% of the nation has access to cable broadband, but, certainly not 94%
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wentlanc @ 26th Apr 11:59AM:
Re: Priorities people

I never said it was more important. Feel free to quote where I did. Nobody ever said anything about what priority this is.

The OP said F a BB policy, which implies that it's not worth the effort at all. We will all be the losers if we don't protect ourselves from corporations who only care about their profits.
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massysett @ 26th Apr 12:04PM:
I still haven't seen what other countries are doing

with their bountiful broadband. What innovative services have emerged in those countries that we in the USA don't have? What uses are the people finding for their bandwidth, other than downloading spam and porn faster than ever? Until I see some proof of the benefit of faster speeds I too do not agree there's a problem.
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Hpower @ 26th Apr 12:06PM:
hah policy

I had to laugh when I read the part ''we simply cannot agree on how to proceed'' hahahaaha how retarded. There never will be a policy.
--
The Internet is about to go down....it is actually.

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ColorBASIC @ 26th Apr 12:09PM:
Re: Priorities people

Farmers aren't going to go out of business because they can't get low latency broadband or can't download more than 100Mb / day. And supercorps like ADM which dominate the farming industry can afford $299 for a T-1.
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ColorBASIC @ 26th Apr 12:16PM:
Re: Priorities people

Not that anyone gives a sh!t but here is the story of my 'hood. Where I live AT&T ex MediaOne hadn't deployed cable HSI yet and Verizon didn't have an RT deployed yet. I had dial return satellite and it worked just great for everything but gaming. However a few of my neighbors, looking to game got together and started a WISP (Unplugged Intenet), got a T-1 and started re-selling. I signed up and it was great. $25 and even though shared I rarely saw less than 900/500. Even after ATTBi deployed (becoming Comcast then TWC) and Verizon deployed an RT and recently FiOS, they're still in business offering a great service. Their WISP competitor Coastinet is still running strong too.

If these people (it's always farmers being brought up and that we will starve if we don't buy them fiber) crying for broadband would put 1/2 the effort they spend whining into actually doing something about it whether it's doing what my neighbors did or passing a local bond measure to fund deployment, they would solve their own problems.

The gov't isn't a solution but is an utter failure in nearly EVERYTHING they do.
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BosstonesOwn @ 26th Apr 12:18PM:
Re: Amazing Cluelessness

said by pnh102 :

Why do people continue to insist that the same government which legalized spam with the CAN-SPAM act, and is about to legalize spyware in the same manner, among other things, is in any way, shape or form able to "manage" our broadband.

If people want a guarantee that the best broadband we will ever get is a half working dialup connection on a good day, once a month, then by all means, pass a national broadband policy.

For some people to continue to insist that the government is the answer to every perceived problem even though we know of the government's track record in this department, is a textbook illustration of insanity.
Believe it or not some idiots actually consider spam a useful source for websites to buy crap from. Those same people also consider the crappy "dealfinder" tool bars useful as well.

That's why the government is making it "legal" , they are just trying to get it recognized as spam and spyware, as to attempt to make it easier to get rid of. Which we know isn't the case but WTH.
--
"It's always funny until someone gets hurt......and then it's absolutely friggin' hysterical!"

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BosstonesOwn @ 26th Apr 12:25PM:
Re: This would be funny if it wasn't so pathetic

No ! South America is much worse.

I worked in Colombia for a fortune 500 for 3 months. Their cable if you could get it was 640 k by 128 k and that was about $150 us a month. dsl was 384/128 and cost a whopping $99 us.

I had wimax from the company I was "contracted" to and they let me run it uncapped since they had 0 customers on the tower.

They get $40 us for 768/128. And you must remember even a good job there pays about $200 us a month.

In Brazil it was a little cheaper but the speeds were almost identical , and my friends who worked el salvador and venezuela were given 128/128 links for $90 us a month.
--
"It's always funny until someone gets hurt......and then it's absolutely friggin' hysterical!"

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morbo @ 26th Apr 12:28PM:
Re: BLAH - BLAH!

those two examples are proof enough. are you not paying attention?

my brother is still on dial-up (maxed out at 21k on a 56k modem) because dsl, cable, wireless, and satellite are all not available. his house is surrounded by trees and he lives in a smaller town.
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batterup @ 26th Apr 12:30PM:
Re: Number 1 for 90 years.

said by major marco :

said by batterup :

Ma Bell is dead and yet the people bitch.

And slowly the Death Star continues to reassemble itself...
There is no direct government regulation on most of the business ether.
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dynodb @ 26th Apr 12:32PM:
"Industry funded"?

I love how any organization that takes a dime of funding from business is written off as "industry funded", as if Citizens Against Government Waste was some niche telco shill group.

Only 21% of their contributions are from industry; the rest from individuals: »www.cagw.org/site/PageServer?pag···ormation

Very little of what they do involves telcom issues: »www.cagw.org/site/PageServer?pag···ues_main

Karl, do you even know if CAGW got any funding from telco interests at all, or is this your typically knee-jerk reaction in characterizing anyone in favor of free-market policies as a industry "shill"?
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BosstonesOwn @ 26th Apr 12:32PM:
Re: Priorities people

Yeah that is a great attitude to have.

Then you drive up the cost of everything in your area ! How about a million bucks for a 2 room shack because every one and their mother wants to get a place where they can get broadband, then take your little commute to work and double it, maybe even triple it.

Next you start stressing the highway and road systems of the cities and more money has to go into that. Guess what ! Taxes go up ! You don't understand the changes that can happen when people have a mass exodus.
--
"It's always funny until someone gets hurt......and then it's absolutely friggin' hysterical!"

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BosstonesOwn @ 26th Apr 12:35PM:
Re: I still haven't seen what other countries are doing

In Sweden for example it has increased worker productivity, people don't call out sick as often and they don't waste as much fuel by telecommuting.

I know one company who doesn't have an office any more. They all vpn into a data center and run the business off of their home connections.
--
"It's always funny until someone gets hurt......and then it's absolutely friggin' hysterical!"

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major marco @ 26th Apr 12:35PM:
Re: I still haven't seen what other countries are doing

said by massysett :

with their bountiful broadband. What innovative services have emerged in those countries that we in the USA don't have? What uses are the people finding for their bandwidth, other than downloading spam and porn faster than ever? Until I see some proof of the benefit of faster speeds I too do not agree there's a problem.
That's brilliant! Do you work for a telco? You don't have a clue as to any new developments that have been deployed or will be deployed abroad, yet here you are pissing all over superior BB speeds that we can't get in the U.S.
--
The Toll


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ONiall @ 26th Apr 12:42PM:
a policy would be helpful to the united states at this point

taking into consideration the interests of the businesses, as well as the public, the united states can come up with a solid policy for broadband service. business should have the opportunity to make healthy profits, and citizens should have access to the tools of the modern world.

issue as i've interpreted it is the citizens want it for almost free, and businesses want to maximize profits. in order to accomplish their goals, they have put themselves at odds. now large amounts of money are being spent, funding yet more groups interests (politicians, talking heads, subject matter experts all want to make a living too), instead of being invested into an agreeable solution to the issues of the first two parties.

in a fashion, the conflicting interests help support our society, however, i don't get the impression that people desire this behavior as being the preferred method of accomplishing anything.

i suspect if each side got over trying to get the most out of the other they could work to a satisfactory conclusion. the united states as a community basically agrees we should be the best country on earth forever. broadband is a tool to success in the modern world. there are many applications still being realized. we'd be better off with businesses that realized healthy returns on their investments and a populace with experience and access to the economic/social/educational resources available on the planet.

all we really have right now is the government to operate as a mediator and advocate for both parties. just got to use it.
--
i drink with bears for weekend carnivals.

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hoyleysox @ 26th Apr 12:43PM:
I don't have a broadband problem

My prices have stayed the same for about 5 years and my dsl speeds have increased. I could get cheaper broadband for $15 if I wanted.

Please don't get the politicians to raise my broadband rates or tax me to pay for month-long projects, adding repeaters for hundreds of miles, and adding a DSLAM just to provide broadband to 3 houses.

I like my DSL at its current prices. I'm sorry if you have a problem getting service in a rural area, but don't expect me to fix it. Pay the big bucks to have a T1 installed if you really need broadband, or get satellite, or move to the city.
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ColorBASIC @ 26th Apr 12:45PM:
Re: Priorities people

Yep, deploying DSL will bring Peace to the Middle East too.
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ossito16 @ 26th Apr 12:50PM:
Re: "Because we can't even agree there's a problem"

What socialist country are u talking about? I know you don't mean the "big govt is better" usa. Or instead of big govt maybe we are run by the corp's, which would make us an oligarchy. But maybe I am wrong and we are socialist country where 3 or 5% of population controls 90+% of wealth.
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dynodb @ 26th Apr 01:13PM:
Re: a policy would be helpful to the united states at this point

So many words, so little said... do you work in politics by chance? :p
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PDXPLT @ 26th Apr 01:21PM:
Re: "Because we can't even agree there's a problem"

said by TKJunkMail :

Those who want this BB policy expect the taxpayers to pay for broadband to every little rural whistle stop and farmhouse, and damn the cost.
Who, specifically, says this?

I find it hard to believe anyone would:

-- The chances of implementing such an idea would be very low;
-- It's not at all what other countries with more successful deployments have done;
-- It's not at all what the U.S. did in the past for ubiquitious telephone and electricity deployment.

Methinksts it is far more likely that this characterization is "spin" intended to demonize the policy of ubiquitious BB deployment as much as possible, in order to favor a policy that benefits short-term business interests as much as possible.
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Ahrenl @ 26th Apr 01:34PM:
Re: "Because we can't even agree there's a problem"

Quite a bit actually.. there's this big swath of country called the Mid-West.


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Karl Bode @ 26th Apr 01:35PM:
Re: "Industry funded"?

Mea culpa.

I'm not quite sure how I could think a group of lobbyists that takes money from industry and individual business owners to rant against issues at the behest of industry could be "industry funded."

That is absolutely my error and I do hope you accept the apology.
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wentlanc @ 26th Apr 01:37PM:
Re: Priorities people

How many non-urban people have broadband? Oh... gee we don't really know, because the numbers are crap, because we have no one setting a strategy for reporting our penetration. So maybe we are talking about the people in the neighborhood next to yours, and not some rural farmer in Kentucky.

Why do consumers have to be ok with being discriminated against because it will cost more than normal to service them. Meanwhile, the company bitching is making record profits.

Why should we accept it when we work to get alternatives like Muni-BB, and the companies sue the city costing taxpayers money so the company can protect their profits?

Maybe you like being robbed like the rest of the sheep who believe the FUD handed out by the telcos and cablecos on BB. But I for one do not.

Satellite is not a viable option for most people because of the latency. I, for one, cannot use it because of my work requirements. So just because everyone could get an expensive slow satellite that will not allow them to use services like VOIP, VPN, gaming, etc., does not make it the filler for everyone else. It's not the same. It's not even close.
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Ahrenl @ 26th Apr 01:39PM:
Re: This would be funny if it wasn't so pathetic

I think you'd only be able to compare to developed markets.. Otherwise you could say there are countries in Africa, Sudan comes to mind, that are infinitely worse. (or Div/0 error, whichever you prefer.. :) )
reply
Ahrenl @ 26th Apr 01:40PM:
Re: BLAH - BLAH!

You live in NYC, what did you expect?
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odreian615 @ 26th Apr 01:41PM:
Why not a massive ftth and docsis 3.0 rollout by the GOV

and LEASE or Auction it out by grids to the small and big telcos and cablcos
Wait that might end up costing the price of the Iraq war well the GOV knows it will get its money back in 20 years unlike Iraq
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fiberguy @ 26th Apr 01:47PM:
Re: "Because we can't even agree there's a problem"

That map, although interesting, doesn't speak much for broadband deployment.

Take two states, called the midwest,...Minnesota and Iowa.. (And some people still call Ohio the "midwest" when they are more eastern than anything) but Minnesota and Iowa... both of those states have broadband in places most people wouldn't think broadband exists. Iowa, for being mostly farm land, actually has some pretty good rural coverage. As for Minneosta, many of the smaller areas have broadband too..
--
"Complaining is the least path of resistance for the self-reitchous and lazy..."

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fiberguy @ 26th Apr 01:48PM:
Re: "Because we can't even agree there's a problem"

It's all cable's fault.. Good one, telco fanboy.

But, setting the facts straight, cable covers more ground in this nation that telephone's DSL service.

What exactly is telephone doing to deploy HSI services in areas that don't have it?

... I thought so.
--
"Complaining is the least path of resistance for the self-reitchous and lazy..."

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fiberguy @ 26th Apr 01:54PM:
Re: Number 1 for 90 years.

said by batterup :

Ma Bell is dead and yet the people bitch.
Please just put that in your signature line once and for all..

... and to respond, as usual, Ma Bell being dead is where people are celebrating.. the putting it back together part is where "people bitch"...
--
"Complaining is the least path of resistance for the self-reitchous and lazy..."

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killnfield @ 26th Apr 02:03PM:
I have broadband now but next month nothing

I live in CA right now. Monday I am moving to Yerington NV, A t-1 line in 1900+ a month local loop cost is over a grand. Forget that I am stuck with a Sat connection or dialup and maybe ISDN. Here in CA I can get a wide verity of connections at a decent cost. I just want more then 1 or 2 options I don't mind paying a few hundered bucks on a decent connection but not 2k a month that is crazy. Wildblue is crap they cap you at 168 megs a day. So even if I could game of of it I would have to wait a few days to get the latest patches just to play. After 168 megs your speed drops to just above dial up. LOL! Well I understand my choice to move to a location that does not have many options for a internet connection, but we should at least have some cost effective options to choose from.

kill
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Ahrenl @ 26th Apr 02:34PM:
Re: "Because we can't even agree there's a problem"

Well the question was "what is the farthest distance in the continental United States from a metropolitan statistical area." So I was simply answering that. The map doesn't take into account infrastructure at all. Hell I bet they have GREAT service in Aspen Colorado.
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dynodb @ 26th Apr 02:39PM:
Re: "Industry funded"?

I ask again- do you have any reason to believe that CAGW gets a significant (or any) amount of money from the telcom industry?

Must any group that takes any money from any industry be disregarded as lobbying at the behest of those industries? Is the Sierra Club shilling for industry? The NAACP? The NRA?

Skepticism is warranted regarding the single-issue groups funded almost solely by the industry they lobby for. However, to paint an activist group that gets most of it's funding from individual donations and covers a wide variety of subjects consistant with their organization's main philosophy as an industry shill is a shallow ad hominem attack- especially given that you've not demonstrated that they've even taken money from the industry in question at all.
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ColorBASIC @ 26th Apr 02:40PM:
Re: Priorities people

Discriminated against? LMAO. Am I discriminated against because I sit in SoCal traffic? Should I have a 'right' to a congestion free commute? Crap, you cry for cheap farmer John broadband while I'm paying $9.50 1 way for tolls on the SR91. I guess there should be a national 'congestion' policy? Am I discriminated against being I pay $3.75/gal for gasoline while farmers in Iowa pay considerably less? How about a national energy policy? Am I discriminated against because the average OC home is close to $600,000 while a comparable home in rural Iowa is likely 25% of that?

Of course not.

Again, it's not the job of Joe Taxpayer or the gov't to provide for people's luxuries like gaming and VoIP.

And for those who need VPN for their jobs, they should have thought about that when they chose their place to live just like everyone else does when they consider their proximity to work.

As for expense, I don't think $50 for satellite internet is prohibitively expensive.

Slow is a matter of opinion. Some who have FiOS would consider 6Mb cable "slow". Personally I don't consider $50 512/128 "slow", I consider it adequate for the normal websurfing, shopping, and email activities that the vast number of people do. I had dial return satellite and surfed the net, sent emails and all kinds of stuff without issue. Did I play Team Fortress on it? No. But the world didn't end because of it either.

Simply put, helping farmers to grab 10GB/mo in pr0n and playing CS isn't a national emergency.

Let them call Wild Blue, Starband or Hughesnet.
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ONiall @ 26th Apr 02:45PM:
Re: a policy would be helpful to the united states at this point

said by dynodb :

So many words, so little said... do you work in politics by chance? :p
there is plenty of content in my post. show me you can find it. otherwise your contribution is of little value to me.
--
i drink with bears for weekend carnivals.

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Karl Bode @ 26th Apr 02:54PM:
Citizen's Against Government Waste

quote:
I ask again- do you have any reason to believe that CAGW gets a significant (or any) amount of money from the telcom industry?
Did I say they did? I believe the tag used was "industry funded," which is 100% accurate. I'd be willing to bet that yes, there is some telecom money in their pot that makes its way through various funds and organizations, but I didn't make that claim. The funding paths are intentionally obfuscated.

They are a deregulatory group funded by industry and wealthy business owners to lobby for deregulation, against open source, against union activity, against global warming, against smoking legislation and other "industry" goals if the price is right -- under the guise of government efficiency.
quote:
Is the Sierra Club shilling for industry? The NAACP? The NRA?
Those groups aren't for hire to the highest bidder. They also occasionally stand up to industry to protect their primary directive. So, no. CAGW is designed to look like those groups, though. In reality they're more public relations.

Some examples of their work for Microsoft and others:

»www.sptimes.com/2006/04/02/World···_w.shtml

»www.internetnews.com/bus-news/ar···p/871631

Their campaign for Microsoft where they used form letters from dead people to lobby lawmakers was a particularly nice touch, I thought.
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Karl Bode @ 26th Apr 03:59PM:
Re: "Because we can't even agree there's a problem"

quote:
Methinksts it is far more likely that this characterization is "spin" intended to demonize the policy of ubiquitious BB deployment as much as possible, in order to favor a policy that benefits short-term business interests as much as possible.
Eloquently put and 100% accurate.
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Thaler @ 26th Apr 04:01PM:
Re: Ummn.. right.

*shrugs* If I had to do a rough guess, I'd say 50-60% myself. Whenever I have a relative move, usually they have broadband avaliable. However, there is also a good possiblity that they might find themselves in a tech void.

I'd say that 94% is accruate...if we count overpriced satellite ISP systems as true broadband. However, if we're judging on affordable consumer systems (ie. $25-40 per month) then it's around 50-60.
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Thaler @ 26th Apr 04:03PM:
Re: "Because we can't even agree there's a problem"

YMMV though.

I have relatives in Louisiana that *just* got broadband made avaliable to them.
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Fox McCloud @ 26th Apr 04:34PM:
Re: Ummn.. right.

said by Thaler :

*shrugs* If I had to do a rough guess, I'd say 50-60% myself. Whenever I have a relative move, usually they have broadband avaliable. However, there is also a good possiblity that they might find themselves in a tech void.

I'd say that 94% is accruate...if we count overpriced satellite ISP systems as true broadband. However, if we're judging on affordable consumer systems (ie. $25-40 per month) then it's around 50-60.
Yeah, but he stated that CABLE had 94% coverage in the USA; if that were the case, I'd think that I'd probably have cable by now, along with a lot of other people that I know...

But yeah, 94% broadband coverage, period? Yeah, I'd say that's accurate, but that's only because of satellite.
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gaforces @ 26th Apr 04:37PM:
Re: Ummn.. right.

The cable co's and tel co's want to keep us strangled in broadband so they can continue to gain profits.
Milking the copper.

If they had to spend money on deployment, and upgrading thier equipment/lines, that lowers thier profit margins.

They continue with thier lies and spinning to contain/restrict peoples awareness of our lack of a national broadband policy.

The marketing and management of these companies are responsible for the sad state of broadband in America, and they use a % of thier profits to buy/lobby lawmakers to go along with thier mercenary plans.
--
The will of the people is the best law. -Ulysses S Grant

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pnh102 @ 26th Apr 04:54PM:
Re: "Because we can't even agree there's a problem"

said by Thaler :

I have relatives in Louisiana that *just* got broadband made avaliable to them.
Wow! And this happened without a "national broadband policy" too!
--
Only SHATNER is Kirk.

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marigolds @ 26th Apr 05:47PM:
Re: Priorities people

said by ColorBASIC :

Discriminated against? LMAO. Am I discriminated against because I sit in SoCal traffic? Should I have a 'right' to a congestion free commute?

Again, it's not the job of Joe Taxpayer or the gov't to provide for people's luxuries like gaming and VoIP.

And for those who need VPN for their jobs, they should have thought about that when they chose their place to live just like everyone else does when they consider their proximity to work.

As for expense, I don't think $50 for satellite internet is prohibitively expensive.

Simply put, helping farmers to grab 10GB/mo in pr0n and playing CS isn't a national emergency.

Let them call Wild Blue, Starband or Hughesnet.
Have you looked at how much highway funds and research money go into Southern California to try to relieve that congestion?
Probably enough to institute national broadband....

Anyway, since you keep going off on farmers. Farmers actually make heavy use of remote sensing now, which means daily downloads of massive environmental coverage HDF files. Especially with the growth of ArcView driven automation, they need to get regular access to satellite data. They probably have a much higher percentage of legitimate usage than nearly all other households.
The "farmers will just abuse broadband" argument is a pretty poor one.
(Incidentally, the limitations of satellite broadband make it completely infeasible for remote GIS. I have to work with a satellite project now for animal tagging in the field, and we have a 50kb file size limit. That means no rasters or even basic shapefiles for mapping purposes. Just KML, which certainly cannot hold HDF data.)

And I think I can point out some pretty clear reasons why farmers have to live where they do in order to do their jobs....
--
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telnet://bbs.iscabbs.com
Professional Geographer
Geographic Information Science researcher

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marigolds @ 26th Apr 05:51PM:
Re: "Because we can't even agree there's a problem"

Most of the midwest is near a metro area now... you are thinking of the great plains :)
(That map is 10 years old and the metro area coverage increased about 40-60% since then.)
But, it does illustrate nicely that most of the United States is not far from a metro.
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Karl Bode @ 26th Apr 05:56PM:
Re: "Because we can't even agree there's a problem"

I don't buy this idea that "Metro" = served though. There are portions of Brooklyn that can't get DSL, and many third tier cities that have only the choice of a half-assed cable provider drowning in debt, etc....or a well off cable provider that can sodomize users because their only competitive pressure is a local telco offering late 90's interleaved technology or what have you...

It's a mistake to assume that metro=broadband competitive utopia, because that's just not accurate. And obviously, rural competition is worse.

And as broadband becomes increasingly used for social services via website, I think the issue of broad penetration does require more serious thought than investors and other financially motivated individuals are willing to give from their rather myopic, self-serving positions...
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KrK @ 26th Apr 06:29PM:
Touche!

We're sure the comments below will further illuminate just how unified we all are on the issue.
LOL! Touche!
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CableConvert @ 26th Apr 06:34PM:
...and then there is Rwanda

I f anyone has any doubt about what a cohesive national broadband policy can do...you only have to look at Rwanda, a country home to one of the worst genocides of our time. The new government has bet bigtime on broadband and telecom to give these people a life. Almost every school has a broadband connection which was almost unthinkable 10yrs ago. They are laying fiber at a rapid pace. The population is one of the most educated now in Africa. Private companies building out this network...not hardly. Its the Rwandan government. In fact, look at any of the broadband "heavyweights" S Korea, Japan, etc. Its the governments that are pushing deployment not private enterprise. There is no economic incentive to build out at that pace. Look at the electrical grid in the US. If it was left to private enterprise, the people just getting broadband in Louisiana might be talking about just getting electricity...
There ya go...discuss
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dynodb @ 26th Apr 07:52PM:
Re: Citizen's Against Government Waste

said by Karl Bode :

Those groups aren't for hire to the highest bidder. They also occasionally stand up to industry to protect their primary directive. So, no. CAGW is designed to look like those groups, though. In reality they're more public relations.

Some examples of their work for Microsoft and others:

»www.sptimes.com/2006/04/02/World···_w.shtml

»www.internetnews.com/bus-news/ar···p/871631

Their campaign for Microsoft where they used form letters from dead people to lobby lawmakers was a particularly nice touch, I thought.
Yet they have an entire section against corporate welfare, and also numerous articles against "pork" spending that benefits private industry- is that a stance one would expect from an industry lobbying group?

As far as the MS link, someone returned 2 form letters that were sent out by CAGW to the address of a dead person. Yawn. As far as the Microsoft case, the free trade / libertarian crowd was quite against the government's case; their position was consistant with their core philosophy. Had they suddenly reversed course- such as being in favor of government funding for a contributor- then there would be cause for question.

NRA members were very much in favor of the bill to protect gun manufacturers from frivolous lawsuits, obviously gun manufacturers were too. Some of those manufacturers contributed money to the NRA... but it doesn't imply they were protecting the industry based on contributions- they were advancing a pre-established position that also benefited the industry, who backed the NRA with funding.

Ditto with CAGW- they're against excessive regulation and spending and have many ordinary people (myself included) who agree with that view. It's only natural they'd be against federal funding for broadband and the government witch hunt against Microsoft, which seemed to be based on little more than the fact that they were so sucessful.
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Karl Bode @ 26th Apr 08:27PM:
Re: Citizen's Against Government Waste

I have nothing more to say that doesn't take us further into "Conservative Qwest employee vs. New England progressive humanist" political BS retread rhetoric. This is a "pro-industry", industry funded, public relations firm that works for the highest bidder, and that classification was your concern. I believe it's accurate. In fact I think I could have fairly used a harsher description....
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ColorBASIC @ 26th Apr 08:27PM:
Re: Priorities people

Yeah and I see that California contributes more to the Federal budget than they get back; so much for the highway fund argument.

Let them get and pay for their own low latency broadband. In the meantime they can STFU, call Wild Blue and get HSI for $50.
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burger2000 @ 26th Apr 09:16PM:
Re: Ummn.. right.

I think whoever from the NCTA that made that comment meant that 94% of U.S. homes that are passed by cable plant have broadband internet service available.

So whoever stated this either misspoke, implied a very important fact, or is just plain misinformed/lying. I lean towards the first.
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Michieru2 @ 26th Apr 09:59PM:
..

This is simple.

Companies will not deploy services that will increase debt and lower profits for the sake of few individuals. They have the choice not too, now when you say "National Broadband Policy" I am thinking taxes. We already pay around 51% from our income in taxes, why must we increase this?

The answer is simple, the technology is not their yet, when wireless can be broadcasted at huge distances or labor and other factors come cheap and considering the price of copper right now is high, the means of installing and wiring will make sense in numbers.

Business is in for the money, they might take cuts but they are not there as a "mandatory" service or good. They can cut you off at anytime because it's their network and we are paying access to that network. The government should only be responsible for necessities, not conviniences.

There really is no problem, eventually as the United States expands and rural becomes urban the services will come. You made a choice to live that far, why must people kiss your ass and come to you? When you do something with a business your doing just that; business.

Both parties have the right to disagree and agree, when a service is being offered to you its simply a means of someone making an offer, and that their are certain guidelines in place. If you like the service and agree to the terms and conditions which are already available then you just closed a deal.

If you offered a service, I am pretty sure you will want to get paid a certain amount of money for that service. But of course this is yall "the price is too expensive lets all split it with every citizen in the nation so we can afford it".

So if I would like to get paid 10.00/h and I am cleaning a pool and since its very dirty I take two hours. I expect to get paid 20.00 for my services anything short and we are going to have problems.

More taxes and more free services that really just strain the tax dollars of those who actually work and are trying to make ends meet, only for that money go to bums and those who never did anything with their lives and still commit crimes in the street so they can be thrown in jail and watch TV all day from the comfort of their cell.
--
The only limits we have are the one's we set ourselves.

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RadioDoc @ 27th Apr 12:03AM:
Re: "Because we can't even agree there's a problem"

Good one, cable { deleted }.
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Fox McCloud @ 27th Apr 12:21AM:
Re: Ummn.. right.

said by burger2000 :

I think whoever from the NCTA that made that comment meant that 94% of U.S. homes that are passed by cable plant have broadband internet service available.

So whoever stated this either misspoke, implied a very important fact, or is just plain misinformed/lying. I lean towards the first.
ok, that would make a lot more sense.

Seriously though, would there be any reason that if you got cable TV service that you couldn't get cable internet service?
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marigolds @ 27th Apr 10:05AM:
Re: "Because we can't even agree there's a problem"

said by Karl Bode :

I don't buy this idea that "Metro" = served though.
My point wasn't that metro=served.
My point was that metro=not in the middle of nowhere. In other words, that the number of rural whistlestops and isolated farmhouses that need to be served is shrinking and that those isolated farmhouses are growing closer and closer to cities.
--
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telnet://bbs.iscabbs.com
Professional Geographer
Geographic Information Science researcher

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Karl Bode @ 27th Apr 10:14AM:
Re: "Because we can't even agree there's a problem"

Oh I know, I was just kind of opining in response to the general commentary of all the thread responses that suggests that if we're talking about populated areas, we're talking about real competition....
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marigolds @ 27th Apr 10:27AM:
Re: Priorities people

said by ColorBASIC :

Yeah and I see that California contributes more to the Federal budget than they get back; so much for the highway fund argument.
And I see that California gets more net dollars per capita than Illinois, Indiana, Michigan, Minnesota, Ohio, and Wisconsin. Iowa gets slightly more, and Kansas and Missouri get quite a bit more.

»www.census.gov/compendia/statab/···nd_debt/
Abstract 469

But I was talking about highways:
»www.census.gov/compendia/statab/···nancing/
Abstracts 1071 and 1073
Where California takes in $3.5B per year but spends well over $6B. $72B from 1995 to 2004 as compared to less than $25B in total receipts.
How did California fill that gap?
Abstract 1070

By receiving 2.365B from the highway trust fund and $1.08B from the federal tranist administration and paying in $3.248B. That means a net payment from the federal funds of $197M per year.

That's better than New York who received a net $1.358B, but the money came out of Florida ($612M), Indiana ($409M), Illinois ($317M), and Georgia ($223M) along with $3B in debt. (Divide state tax receipts by state tax rate and then multiple by federal tax rate of 18.4 to get federal receipts and compare to combined federal outlays).
--
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telnet://bbs.iscabbs.com
Professional Geographer
Geographic Information Science researcher

reply
marigolds @ 27th Apr 10:29AM:
Re: "Because we can't even agree there's a problem"

said by Karl Bode :

Oh I know, I was just kind of opining in response to the general commentary of all the thread responses that suggests that if we're talking about populated areas, we're talking about real competition....
Oh well, I would definitely agree with that :)
Especially the suggestion that satellite always provides competition. There are simply too many small business functions in particularly that satellite cannot adequately handle.
--
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telnet://bbs.iscabbs.com
Professional Geographer
Geographic Information Science researcher

reply
Karl Bode @ 27th Apr 10:32AM:
Re: "Because we can't even agree there's a problem"

quote:
Especially the suggestion that satellite always provides competition.
The only people suggesting that are those who haven't used it for any extended period of time, or whom are financially or politically motivated to portray the market as more competitive than it actually is.
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ColorBASIC @ 27th Apr 11:22AM:
Re: Priorities people

Last post from me on this as this is derailing the thread.

You're only talking of excise taxes. You ignore the rest of the Federal taxes collected from California, New England and New York meant to subsidize rural states.

California gets back less than .80 of every $1 paid (and there are substantially more dollars being paid) to the Federal government while rural states like OK and KY get back 1.5X the money paid in. OK and KY make quite an ever growing profit at the expense of New England, New York and California.

And in the case of California the percentage of money received per dollar paid has decreased nearly every year for the last 25 years. Meanwhile a state like Kentucky saw their share balloon 50%.

You talk of the big "$197 million" California got in excess of the excise taxes paid ignoring that California paid in more than $250 billion while Kentucky paid in less than $20B. California paid $15.5 billion more in taxes than they received. $16 billion is more than the entire budgets of some of these states. Hell our State budget deficit alone in 2003 was $35 billion, due in no small part to the shortage from the Federal gov't.

Even on a per capita basis the average Californian paid in 50% more in Federal taxes than the average Kentuckian.

»www.taxfoundation.org/taxdata/show/347.html

But that is our progressive tax system and I can accept it in terms of providing ESSENTIAL services like water and electricity.

Low latency broadband is in no way shape or form an essential service and prior to 1996 was non-existent. You don't go from non-existence to essential in 10 years.

So don't cry me a river about how California got $197 "million" more in excise receipts than we paid in. $197M is NOTHING compared to the $16 billion we were shorted.

So let rural folks call Wild Blue, Starband, HughesNet or any of the other broadband satellite providers LIKE I DID when I didn't have cable or DSL internet service. Or God forbid, let them start a WISP (like my neighbors did) or pass a LOCAL bond measure to fund their deployment just like California passes BILLIONS in local bond measures to build schools and freeways because we can't get anywhere near our fair share back from the Federal government.
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marigolds @ 27th Apr 01:14PM:
Re: Priorities people

As abstract 469 demonstrates, Oklahoma and Kentucky are aberrations. If you want to find the states that are receiving far more spending than they pay out in taxes, you need to look to:
Maryland
Alaska
New Mexico
Virginia
Connecticutt
Hawaii
Maine
Massachusetts
North Dakota
Wyoming

It is a mix of rural states and dense states.

The states getting the least spending per capita?
Michigan
Minnesota
Nevada
Utah
Wisconsin
Georgia
Illinois
Indiana
New Hampshire
Oregon

The trend there should be pretty obvious.

California comes in at the 17th lowest.
--
ISCABBS - the oldest and largest BBS on the Internet
telnet://bbs.iscabbs.com
Professional Geographer
Geographic Information Science researcher

reply
Ahrenl @ 27th Apr 02:17PM:
Re: "Because we can't even agree there's a problem"

My bad, just grabbed the first one I googled...


reply
Thaler @ 27th Apr 06:23PM:
Re: Ummn.. right.

said by Fox McCloud :

Seriously though, would there be any reason that if you got cable TV service that you couldn't get cable internet service?
Well, I think there are actually services and stations a cable provider needs to put out in order to provide internet on a cable run. Simply having a copper wire doesn't automatically allow it to act as an ISP...until the cable provider has made the investment.

By similar logic, I could also wonder why everyone doesn't have access to DSL...seeing as how nearly every home is phone-wired anyways.
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Thaler @ 27th Apr 07:46PM:
Re: "Because we can't even agree there's a problem"

said by pnh102 :

Wow! And this happened without a "national broadband policy" too!
For the are they were living in, the access to broadband could've been avaliable much sooner. Hell, old age is a way to die, but I wouldn't call Castro dying in a retirement home much of a successful assasination plot either.

I still have relatives and friends in locations that aren't the boonies, yet still have nothing but possibly a satellite offering. And no, I still won't consider satellite an honest broadband solution. 2-4x the cost for half the service of a traditional broadband provider isn't exactly "broadband covered".

We could certainly wait until 2050, 2100, etc. to roll on out until 256k coverage is avaliable everywhere in the US...but by then the slow "industry motivated" wiring movement would be waaay behind and nigh-useless for folks needs either. Perhaps having government wire the nation much like telephones isn't *the* solution, but the "we'll get to it whenever" moving force of broadband providers today isn't exactly utopia either.
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johnh123 @ 29th Apr 10:41AM:
Re: This would be funny if it wasn't so pathetic

said by major marco :

said by johnh123 :

Lowest speeds? I don't think so. Check out the stats on speedtest.net
Don't be so selectively obtuse. The lowest speed compared to other countries. :uhh:
Obtuse? Did you check the speeds on speedtest.net? You know, where you can compare the download speeds of different countries? You know, where it shows, through millions of speedtests, that the US is actually doing pretty good in comparison to other major countries?
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