Bell Canada Confirms Throttling - Tells wholesalers: too bad, so sad...
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Bell Canada Confirms Throttling
Tells wholesalers: too bad, so sad...
(old news - 04:00PM Tuesday Mar 25 2008)
tags: competition · business · telco · trouble · Bell Sympatico · TekSavvy Solutions Inc.
Tipped by fourboxers
Techdirt, Slashdot and Canadian law Professor Michael Geist all discuss our report yesterday on Bell Canada's decision to start throttling traffic of their residential wholesalers before it hits their networks without telling those ISPs they were doing so. The result was a flurry of angry users, and executives at major ISPs who had to explain why they "broke" promises not to throttle traffic. Popular Canadian ISP Teksavvy met with Bell Canada today, and CEO Rocky Gaudrault says Bell is confirming the practice:
Click for full size
They're now openly acknowledging that they are rolling out a full throttling process. They plan to have things fully throttled by April 7th. All BT and P2P traffic will be affected. They claim they are allowed to do so according to their Terms and Services under the Fair Usage Policy in the tariffed contracts... We'll be looking into this shortly.
In other words, Bell Canada is using their monopoly power to degrade the quality of the bandwidth headed to ISP partners. The move makes those competitors immediately less of a threat -- given Sympatico throttles their own customers and wouldn't want a competitor offering better service.

It's dumbfoundingly anti-competitive, and Bell is claiming it's their right under contract, which likely leaves those ISPs with little legal recourse. Our users, however, are discussing their options, including a letter writing campaign to the Canadian competition bureau.

Meanwhile, Bell Sympatico is fielding complaints from their own broadband customers about the throttling. One user offers the call center talking points Bell reps are being told to use against our forum regulars, who are calling in to claim the throttling constitutes a material change and nullifies their long-term contract:
Mrs. / Mr. customer, in order to ensure a consistently high level of service for all our customers, Bell may be required to manage its network in such a way that no customer, service or application consumes excessive bandwidth which may impede the use and enjoyment of other customers. Bell has the right to manage its network to deliver a consistent and reliable experience to all its customers and doing so is not a material change to the service. Therefore, the early termination fee will apply if you wish to exit your contract before the end of your term.
Reps are subsequently told that engaging in legal discussion with the customer is "strictly prohibited." As usual with North America's largest providers, they're all too happy to box users in with miles of legalese, but they're not too keen when you try to use their own fine print against them.

See additional user discussion in our Teksavvy, Bell Sympatico and Canadian broadband forums.


Related:
  1. Indie ISPs Eyeing Legal Action Against Bell Canada
  2. Telus Reverses 'Bell Should Pay' Position
  3. Bell Canada Discontinuing Video Store
  4. Nobody's Complaining About Comcast's New Throttling
  5. Canadian Regulators Send Another Love Letter To Bell Canada
  6. Real Consumer Group Takes Aim At Fake Ones
  7. Canadians Take Heed Of Harvard Broadband Study
  8. CRTC Blocks Canada's WIND Wireless Network
Links: New Topic
Forums »

travisc @ 25th Mar 03:52PM:
Competing against Bell is fun.

Thankfully, we don't use their network. I'd be a bit pissed right now if we did.
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RadioDoc @ 25th Mar 03:52PM:
Wow.

Comcast must be wetting themselves over the prospects of doing this in their own network.

Sad state of affairs up there, coming to a US ISP near you.
--
Toolmaster of La Grange.

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KrK @ 25th Mar 04:00PM:
Too bad you can't throttle your payments

... I was writing out the check to pay for your services when I hit my bandwidth or cash spending limit and had to throttle your payment to $1.58 for the month.

Here's your $1.58, bill balance is paid in full. Enjoy...

Yeah.... wish it worked that way.
--
"Regulatory capitalism is when companies invest in lawyers, lobbyists, and politicians, instead of plant, people, and customer service." - former FCC Chairman William Kennard (A real FCC Chairman, unlike the current Corporate Spokesperson in the job!)

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dannyd1 @ 25th Mar 04:12PM:
Bell...

It seems that the big ISPs are trying once again to quash the competitors and give us less choice. Microsoft is another giant that uses this logic to kill their competition and none of us are better for it.

Americans need to get up off their butts and get busy talking, emailing, faxing and doing whatever it takes to get legislation passed that will put a stop on the attack freedom of choice and freedom of enterprize.

Big Typo...sorry had a Bell moment ;-D
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KrK @ 25th Mar 04:14PM:
Re: Bell...

said by dannyd1 :

doing whatever it takes to get legislation passed that will put a stop to freedom of choice and freedom of enterprize.
...

Uh....

:D
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TKJunkMail @ 25th Mar 04:16PM:
Re: Wow.

said by RadioDoc :

Comcast must be wetting themselves over the prospects of doing this in their own network.

Sad state of affairs up there, coming to a US ISP near you.
Are the Canadian cable companies throttling P2P as well? Or is it just the DSL providers?
--
My BLOG .. .. Internet News .. .. My Web Page

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mazhurg @ 25th Mar 04:16PM:
Illegal!

What I find troubling is not that Sympatico would filter based on content, ISPs have more or less been given that right by default, but that BCE as a telecomunication company is actively inspecting and taking action on content when they are supposed to be a common carrier.

You can bet that the business customers of Sympatico will not suffer from any type of traffic shaping while those from the independent ISP will be as there are reports already that VPN and other type of connections are being throttled.
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anon @ 25th Mar 04:17PM:
Re: Wow.

Boy, what have you got against Comcast? I sincerely doubt they would ever do this to anything but p2p traffic, which if you believe the numbers, could alleviate some 70~80% of the network load. IMHO that would be a good thing.

Or would you rather have AT&T's filtered content approach?
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xmz @ 25th Mar 04:20PM:
Re: Wow.

Rogers throttles, for one.
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DrModem @ 25th Mar 04:22PM:
Re: Wow.

I lol'd so hard at your post.
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RadioDoc @ 25th Mar 04:48PM:
Re: Wow.

So far there is no evidence of AT&T doing anything but mouthing off about content filtering, not unlike Big Ed used to do when he'd had a couple too many for lunch.

Comcast's transgressions are here for anyone to see, and they've compounded them by lying about it. If you don't think they'd start throttling the download side if they could get away with it, you are very naive.

Those 70-80% numbers are wholly made up unless their network craps out at 100 megabits. If they were true nobody would ever be able to use a cable modem on their networks.
--
Toolmaster of La Grange.

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wifi4milez @ 25th Mar 04:48PM:
How are they doing this?

It was my understanding that Teksavvy was a true wholesale provider, meaning that they provided their own internet access and simply used the Bell copper last mile (as opposed to being a reseller). If they have all their own equipment, and are their own ISP, where is the throttling happening? Is Bell throttling the last mile between the customer and Teksavvy, and if so, how are they doing that?
--
с новым годом

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RadioDoc @ 25th Mar 04:49PM:
Re: Wow.

Cable and DSL seems to be afflicted in Canada.
--
Toolmaster of La Grange.

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jessegr @ 25th Mar 04:52PM:
Re: How are they doing this?

At the dslam level most likely.
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ptrowski @ 25th Mar 04:52PM:
Re: Wow.

said by JasonD :

Boy, what have you got against Comcast? I sincerely doubt they would ever do this to anything but p2p traffic, which if you believe the numbers, could alleviate some 70~80% of the network load. IMHO that would be a good thing.

Or would you rather have AT&T's filtered content approach?
Well at least Comcast was so honest and upfront about their "network management" at first. Oh wait..... :uhh:
--
"A religious war is like children fighting over who has the strongest imaginary friend."

Have you been touched by his noodly appendage? »www.venganza.org

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mlerner @ 25th Mar 04:57PM:
Re: How are they doing this?

said by wifi4milez :

It was my understanding that Teksavvy was a true wholesale provider, meaning that they provided their own internet access and simply used the Bell copper last mile (as opposed to being a reseller). If they have all their own equipment, and are their own ISP, where is the throttling happening? Is Bell throttling the last mile between the customer and Teksavvy, and if so, how are they doing that?
Bell is still the last mile provider, as they own and provision the copper for voice and DSL, from the CO the traffic goes through Bell's nationwide ATM transit and then usually to Toronto where Bell sends off the packets to the provider's network.
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hottboiinnc @ 25th Mar 05:02PM:
Re: Too bad you can't throttle your payments

The sad way in many states it does. You can write your check out to a dollar amount in the memo section write "paid in full" and as long as the person cashes the check; that bill is paid in full.
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TigerLord @ 25th Mar 05:06PM:
Re: Wow.

Cable isn't affected here
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TKJunkMail @ 25th Mar 05:06PM:
A question no one wants to ask - is there a need to throttle

1 thing that no one seems to be addressing in this discussion is whether there exists a "NEED to throttle" based on congested networks.

If there truly is congestion conditions(and why would Bell Canada put themselves thru the negative publicity if there wasn't), then maybe what they are doing is justified.

Of course they can start massively upgrading their network, but given current economic conditions and prospects it would certainly be reasonable to put off those expenditures for 8 to 12 months.
--
My BLOG .. .. Internet News .. .. My Web Page

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TKJunkMail @ 25th Mar 05:07PM:
Re: Too bad you can't throttle your payments

said by hottboiinnc :

The sad way in many states it does. You can write your check out to a dollar amount in the memo section write "paid in full" and as long as the person cashes the check; that bill is paid in full.
And that also opens you up to charges of FRAUD - a criminal offense.
--
My BLOG .. .. Internet News .. .. My Web Page

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adisor19 @ 25th Mar 05:16PM:
Re: Wow.

Videotron is about the only Cable company in Canada that does not throttle. They do have some of the lowest caps in the country however (20GB down and 2GB UP for their 5Mbps/850Kbps High Speed Service)

Adi
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anon @ 25th Mar 05:22PM:
Abanodon or reduce your services on your Bell land lines

Very simple,

If you are a Bell phone customer and have the option switch land line providers or reduce your services to a Basic land line. Make sure that when they ask you why, make it clear it is because of what they do to internet users. The left hand will eventually talk to the right hand.

Question: Are there any ADLS providers in the Montreal Aerea using their own DSLAM?

Taf


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powerhog @ 25th Mar 05:32PM:
Re: A question no one wants to ask - is there a need to throttle

If they "NEED" to throttle, then they've obviously over-sold their capacity and need to stop adding to the problem by taking on new customers... don't you think?
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EPS @ 25th Mar 05:32PM:
Bell Canada

Good to see the good old Bell mindset is still alive and well at Bell Canada, even after over fifty years of being separated... :p
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adisor19 @ 25th Mar 05:40PM:
GOD DAMIT !!

I just cancelled my Videotron HS rape internet access as i was planning to go with TekSavvy and now THIS. If all other small providers are going to be affected, where am i supposed to go ???

My only last choice is Look Communications wireless WiMax system but that thing still to this day has hight latency...

At least it's the last thing out there that is truly UNLIMITED and NON THROTTLED.

I was considering Colba.net with their ADSL2+ DSLAMS but now i wonder if they could somehow be affected too...

GOD, i never thought i would reconsider going back to Look.... What is this country coming to ?

Adi
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RadioDoc @ 25th Mar 05:40PM:
Re: Too bad you can't throttle your payments

What you write on the memo is irrelevant. I could write "TK is a Democrat" in the memo, send him a check for $100 and the only thing I would have accomplished is sending him a Franklin.

If you want to play the "paid in full" game it has to be on the back, in the endorsement area, and be fully spelled out. And you'd still lose because the game is rigged against you when automated payment processing equipment handles the check.
--
Toolmaster of La Grange.

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cluster5 @ 25th Mar 05:47PM:
What I find odd

The ISP pays an amount to Bell to lease the copper (~20$/mnt). Bell agrees to "transport" the information from the client's premises to the company's premises. There's not much heavy routing.

My ISP has an agreement with me where for 30$/mnt I have up to 200G of bandwidht. What is the difference to Bell if I choose to do 200G of Bit Torrent or HTTP? 200GB isn't a crazy amount. Odly engouh, TekSavvy don't need to pay 20$ for the 200GB I'll use of internet. In other words, Bell is charging alot for not much and now they want to lower what they offer.

If demand is higher than the offering in some sectors, upgrades are require not discrimination of certain protocols.
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tmc8080 @ 25th Mar 05:49PM:
speaks for itself

Not just BC, but Rogers, Comcast, Time Warner and the rest who routinely do this...

»youtube.com/watch?v=_NGz3Fw9s0g

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kd6cae @ 25th Mar 05:51PM:
Give us the bandwidth we pay for, nothing less!

OK if a customer orders a certain tier of speed, say 6mbps/768kbps, then regardless of the internet provider customer is using, or the protocol being used, that's the speed they should get!
The last mile telco shouldn't be allowed to mess with speeds, especially between a customer and a totally separate ISP! Surely the network links between telco's and internet service providers have plenty of capacity, I mean prior to throttling there were no issues, so why the sudden change? And why is Canada so in to this whole let's degrade the internet experience for our users idea? It's not like it's hard to get Bandwidth. If I had a T1 connection between say me and a non-telco affiliated network, I'd expect to get full use of my 1.5mbit/sec line, unless of course I myself choose to only use a portion of the T1 for that network conection. I certainly would not be happy if the Telco that provided my T1 circuit decided to throttle my connection to the remote network just because they could. I'd expect the same equal treatment for DSL users. Otherwise what's the point of having speed caps at all? Hell why not just run all CPE devices uncapped, since the Telco themselves will take care of throttling your connection to a rate they feel will work, even if you're not on their network! It's rediculous, and I think this practice should be stopped. Throttling benifits noone, unless of course the whole goal of Bell and others considering this practice is to annoy evry customer, which makes no sense. The only throttle should be the speeds you requested, nothing else!
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mazhurg @ 25th Mar 06:01PM:
Re: A question no one wants to ask - is there a need to throttle

I could see the need if the data was shared. However there is no sharing of data. Couple of facts:

1) Independant ISPs (IISP) buy transit from BCE (or Bell Nexxia); not from Sympatico. The only common point is at the DSLAM level (last mile). IISP then provide their own networking, configuation, routing and load management.

2) Since Sympatico started to stealth throttle their users, Bell has lost a lot of users to the smaller ISPs, so many that I would not be surprised to see a net drain.

3) The throtling being done to the independant ISPs is similar to what Sympatico is doing to it's own users as it appears to be done at the last mile (it's the only place of commonality). This in turn imply that a common carrier is actively looking at and segregating data based on content. E.G. NOT a good thing.

4) The throttling is also not very accurate and will target just about everything encrypted (in addition to P2P), This means that VPN, and other encrypted network and services are affected. As a matter of fact, it now appears that several companies linked via TS are being affected, even tho they have business class connections to TS. Want to bet that if those companies where connected via Sympatico they would not experience "Issues"?

No, this is noting but a brazen attempt at killing off competition. The P2P is only the excuse.
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Shark_615 @ 25th Mar 06:12PM:
Re: Too bad you can't throttle your payments

MYTH
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yabos @ 25th Mar 06:26PM:
Re: A question no one wants to ask - is there a need to throttle

No they don't need to. People were happily downloading full speed on Teksavvy until this happened. If the lines Bell resells to Teksavvy were congested then people would be seeing slowdowns which wasn't happening. This is total BS by Bell and anti competitive. Should be illegal as well and hopefully some company takes them to court.
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Ebolla @ 25th Mar 06:35PM:
Re: Too bad you can't throttle your payments

»consumer-law.lawyers.com/Paid-in···emo.html
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sporkme @ 25th Mar 06:41PM:
Re: A question no one wants to ask - is there a need to throttle

said by TKJunkMail :

1 thing that no one seems to be addressing in this discussion is whether there exists a "NEED to throttle" based on congested networks.
I doubt it - a temporary "need" perhaps, but this is *the phone company*. Unlike cable, they do not have that pesky last-mile bottleneck that's a technological limitation forcing them into portioning out tiny bits of upstream traffic. If they're congested, it's the fiber from the COs into the core ATM network, or the ATM network itself. Considering they are the phone company and they ultimately already have gobs of interconnect that they own between all their COs and tandems, they are not at the mercy of some third party when they need to expand capacity. If the fiber is full, then they need to mux more colors of light... however we know that the telcos do understand capacity planning very well. They are never going to just pull a few strands to a CO and then put more in later.

It all sounds a bit fishy to me. If the network were congested, users would be seeing that and complaining about it, no?

I'd wager that since regulation is a bit tighter up there this will be resolved shortly and in favor of the competitive ISPs/consumers, especially if it's clobbering non-P2P usage (see comments in this thread re: VPN breakage).
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nasadude @ 25th Mar 06:43PM:
Re: Too bad you can't throttle your payments

I am pretty sure I read about a case where someone actually won a court case doing this, but I think he complied with the restrictions below. He basically printed a short contract statement on the check and whoever he owed it to thought it was a joke, signed it and deposited it, then asked for the rest of his money. Went to court and the check writer won.

»www.snopes.com/business/bank/paidfull.asp

Section 3-311 of the Uniform Commercial Code does state that a debt can be discharged with a check designated as payment in full "if the person against whom the claim is asserted proves that the instrument or an accompanying written communication contained a conspicuous statement to the effect that the instrument was tendered as full satisfaction of the claim." However, it's up to the claimant to prove "that within a reasonable time before collection of the instrument was initiated, the claimant, or an agent of the claimant having direct responsibility with respect to the disputed obligation, knew that the instrument was tendered in full satisfaction of the claim." So if you receive a check marked "paid in full" made out for less than the amount you have agreed upon, you'd best not cross out the words "paid in full" or write "disputed" on it and cash it anyway, as you risk having the entire debt discharged. However, this condition does /not/ apply to "transactions conducted or performed, in whole or in part, by electronic means or electronic records, in which the acts or records of one or both parties are not reviewed by an individual in the ordinary course [of business]," which means that this scheme will not work at all for most bill or credit card payments, as those payments are typically handled by automated systems and not humans.
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Ulmo @ 25th Mar 07:09PM:
Re: A question no one wants to ask - is there a need to throttle

said by sporkme :

I'd wager that since regulation is a bit tighter up there this will be resolved shortly and in favor of the competitive ISPs/consumers, especially if it's clobbering non-P2P usage (see comments in this thread re: VPN breakage).
If so and Bell knew, then perhaps they were throwing in VPN just to test the limits and get whatever anticompetitive advantage they could while it lasted, and never expected it to last forever. Perhaps they wanted the delineation of the rules for everything more quickly asserted.

Just think: Anything you don't successfully protest now, Bell can do with impunity for the next dozen to two dozen years, give or take. Perhaps they wanted the fight, just so that P2P throttling (of other carriers' traffic) can be more quickly legitimized (and/or designated unfair territory for snooping). Who really knows. It all seems strange. What an odd reaction to P2P traffic. (To me it would seem a business opportunity: find out what they're P2Ping, and then offer quality legal products aligned with the interests of the less illegitimate P2P users, swinging them and the market in favor of a more appropriate cost model. Witness the success of Comcast VOD as a sort of partial example (with failings in the ease of access aspect (user interface difficulties compared to P2P).))
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Ulmo @ 25th Mar 07:10PM:
Re: GOD DAMIT !!

"Move."
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keyboard5684 @ 25th Mar 07:40PM:
Who cares

You know what, no one in the scheme of things.
When NORMAL users start to see faster web pages, faster downloads, faster everything then I think this argument about how bad this is will die.

See, no one really cares about P2P, I don't.
Throttle it.

I could go door to door, hit 100 houses, I bet NONE would even know what P2P is. Why? Probably because most people started paying for there downloads a long time ago, like itunes.

I think the ones behind the times are actually the ones on BBR this time!
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fatness @ 25th Mar 07:52PM:
Re: A question no one wants to ask - is there a need to throttle

said by mazhurg :

4) The throttling is also not very accurate and will target just about everything encrypted (in addition to P2P), This means that VPN, and other encrypted network and services are affected.
Some VOIP service has been affected.
--
Female monkeys often utter loud, distinctive calls before, during or after sex..

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voyager6868 @ 25th Mar 08:00PM:
Re: Abanodon or reduce your services on your Bell land lines

If you have cell phone service with Bell, you should either ditch it immediately and pay the termination fee, or call Bell to inform them that once your contract is up you will be switching your number to another carrier.
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rahvin112 @ 25th Mar 08:07PM:
Re: Wow.

The problem with what you think is good is that you don't think beyond what you are told. The high end consumption drives the costs down long term, it also causes the networks to be structured such that future heavy demand services will be possible. Someday we all might buy the TV channels we want (and only the ones we want) on the Internet and stream them to our TV's directly.

Without P2P driving the cost of bandwidth down the demand ceases and the internet never moves beyond web and email. Looking at countries where lots of bandwidth is available and cheap (Japan and Korea) and you will see countries with rapidly developing new interactive markets. Markets the US will be excluded from if we choose to take the path that providers can discriminate against the type of traffic they carry.

In the long run the excess consumption of a few drives down the costs and availability for everyone. But why would we want to advance right? Horse drawn carriages are fast enough and why on earth would we want to buy channels directly rather than being forced to buy them as a package from a middleman? Many technical advances come about with the availability of high bandwidth, without the P2P driving the curve the bandwidth will never happen and the interactivity and cheaper systems that would result will never happen.

I'm astounded at times how many people fail to realize that this debate about filtering is nothing more than a debate about net-neutrality. The pipes should be dumb, they should provide and serve ANY data the customer wants and any attempt to interfere in that is an attempt to insert or preserve a middleman that doesn't need to be in the system. Opposition to Net-neutrality (or pro "network management") is about preserving and enhancing revenue streams and has little to nothing to do with network management. Comcast and other don't want you to have unrestricted data because then they become a dump pipe and you could buy services (phone, video) from anyone on the network. That's the greatest fear of the providers and the reason they use P2P as their sounding board for network-neutrality opposition. The minute it's a dumb pipe is the minute the information becomes a commodity sold to the market at the lowest acceptable price.

When you realize what's at stake, that's when you'll realize how important network-neutrality is and why P2P filtering is the step in the door (and the first nail in the coffin) to charging companies to access you, and limiting what you can do as a consumer to maximize the revenue of the pipe provider. Don't fall for the BS, network-neutrality is probably the single most important debate in this country regarding the availability and access to information.
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root9 @ 25th Mar 08:08PM:
Re: Who cares

WRONG!
I have gone door to door in this whole section of city and found out 75 out of a 100 are totally p****d off with what most ISP's are doing.

blocked encrypted appz & content
newsgroups blocked/throttled
IRC traffic shaped
many 404 pages
FTP cancelled/reset
content blocked

I diagnosed most of it and found major Canadian ISP's are blocking certain content any way they can. Some ISP's are playing a game of "how much can we skin the customer for"

Just wait till you have only eight button options like ATM machine, AOL or Internet in China ... HAHAHA

Guess some PPL don't know much about big business. Give them a slight edge and they will skin you alive :P
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koreyb @ 25th Mar 08:19PM:
Re: Who cares

That's the issue though... this will NOT make a change at all.. The speeds are not usually effected in the areas, as Bell has been always good at keeping Dslams looked after and away from congestion.

I see this as nothing more than kill the small guy and run away keeping customers or bring a few back to them.

P2P isn't just the issue, is the fact it's also effecting other applications like VoIP... which for sure Bell wanted to affect so people get fed up and run back to their over priced, phone service.

Either the Gov or a lawsuit will likely decide this one.
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InvalidError @ 25th Mar 08:25PM:
Re: Wow.

said by adisor19 :

t the only Cable company in Canada that does not throttle.Videotron is abou They do have some of the lowest caps in the country however (20GB down and 2GB UP for their 5Mbps/850Kbps High Speed Service)
It was 10GB/month the last time I checked... and I've been with Videotron HS for roughly 10 years before switching to TSI.

Edit: 10GB up, of course. The 20GB down is correct. If Videotron had increased both limits by 5-10GB, I would have signed up for one more year.
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accusync @ 25th Mar 08:36PM:
Re: Who cares

said by root9 :

WRONG!
I have gone door to door in this whole section of city and found out 75 out of a 100 are totally p****d off with what most ISP's are doing.

blocked encrypted appz & content
newsgroups blocked/throttled
IRC traffic shaped
many 404 pages
FTP cancelled/reset
content blocked

I diagnosed most of it and found major Canadian ISP's are blocking certain content any way they can. Some ISP's are playing a game of "how much can we skin the customer for"

Just wait till you have only eight button options like ATM machine, AOL or Internet in China ... HAHAHA

Guess some PPL don't know much about big business. Give them a slight edge and they will skin you alive :P
Funny you should mention Internet in China. The teachers pension fund is setting up venture funds in china.
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adisor19 @ 25th Mar 08:48PM:
Re: Wow.

You are correct. It was a typing mistake on my end.

Adi
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KrK @ 25th Mar 09:04PM:
Re: Wow.

said by rahvin112 :

Someday we all might buy the TV channels we want (and only the ones we want) on the Internet and stream them to our TV's directly.
You've just described a Cable TV Company Exec's worst nightmare.... and now, a Telco Company Exec with new TV services worst nightmare.

Why do you think they want to push caps, throttling, and pay-per-byte? To make sure that consumers can NOT go to such a system, and WILL have to stay paying them for content. It's designed to be anti-competitive, and block consumers choice.
--
"Regulatory capitalism is when companies invest in lawyers, lobbyists, and politicians, instead of plant, people, and customer service." - former FCC Chairman William Kennard (A real FCC Chairman, unlike the current Corporate Spokesperson in the job!)

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RadioDoc @ 25th Mar 09:44PM:
Re: Wow.

Yep. Except that the telco IPTV model scales directly to the pay per channel market. It's damn close to that now. Even at this point I can order programming to my TiVo or a MPC and play it in as good a quality as standard cable gives now. All we need are more like the Fox/Universal 'hulu' and others to provide more content and speed up the process. The seeds are already planted.

This is indeed the NCTA's worst-case scenario and as you said they will do anything to prevent it. It's the VoIP to their outdated Video on Demand cash cow long distance, to use a familiar analogy.
--
Toolmaster of La Grange.

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Snickerdo @ 25th Mar 10:10PM:
Re: Too bad you can't throttle your payments

said by TKJunkMail :

And that also opens you up to charges of FRAUD - a criminal offense.
Care to cite some case law where someone was charged and convicted of a fraud-related offence for an action such as this?
--
I swear that I will faithfully and bear true allegiance to Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth the Second, Queen of Canada, Her Heirs and Successors, and that I will faithfully observe the laws of Canada and fulfil my duties as a Canadian citizen.

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53059959 @ 25th Mar 10:39PM:
Re: Competing against Bell is fun.

I can't believe this is not a breach of contract with smaller isp who buy access wholesale.

Wouldn't you think these smaller isps make sure unfiltered, unthrottled connection would be in the terms?
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anon @ 25th Mar 11:25PM:
Re: Too bad you can't throttle your payments

That section may apply with the UCC applies, but the UCC doesn't apply in all situations in which case you have to use ordinary common law and contract law which varies in different places.
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battleop @ 25th Mar 10:44PM:
Re: Competing against Bell is fun.

As soon as DSL was deregulated BellSouth came out with a new agreement that had similar language. You had two choices, sign it and keep your DSL network or not sign it and close up shop. I never saw the revised AT&T contract but I am sure it has similar language.
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the cerberus @ 26th Mar 12:34AM:
Re: Wow.

said by JasonD :

Boy, what have you got against Comcast? I sincerely doubt they would ever do this to anything but p2p traffic, which if you believe the numbers, could alleviate some 70~80% of the network load. IMHO that would be a good thing.

Or would you rather have AT&T's filtered content approach?
are you serious? filtering is wrong, because isp's should protect the privacy of its users and not give in to the mpaa/riaa.

throttling is wrong because these companies offer bandwidth and a certain speed promised to you, if you are going to use this bandwidth you should be allowed to, and if comcast and bell cannot provide this bandwidth the answer is not to eliminate its users speed thus eliminating bandwidth the answer is to add MORE BANDWIDTH (what the hell am i paying bell $20 a month for if i already pay dry loop fees for the copper?), this is the proper network management. Companies can save money by using p2p because it doesn't use their bandwidth(ex WOW updates, linux iso's) there are legitimate uses for every protocol and it is unfair to single out any and throttle a user for bandwidth they pay for!!
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Mashiki @ 26th Mar 12:52AM:
Re: Abanodon or reduce your services on your Bell land lines

There are plenty of places where you still can't get a land line provider other then Bell regardless of the deregulation up here.

That is a good idea, but unless people leave in droves it won't matter. And most Canadians are too apathetic with regards to issues unless it's banging on their door.
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anon @ 26th Mar 01:09AM:
Re: Who cares

said by root9 :

WRONG!
I have gone door to door in this whole section of city and found out 75 out of a 100 are totally p****d off with what most ISP's are doing.

blocked encrypted appz & content
newsgroups blocked/throttled
IRC traffic shaped
many 404 pages
FTP cancelled/reset
content blocked

I diagnosed most of it and found major Canadian ISP's are blocking certain content any way they can. Some ISP's are playing a game of "how much can we skin the customer for"

Just wait till you have only eight button options like ATM machine, AOL or Internet in China ... HAHAHA

Guess some PPL don't know much about big business. Give them a slight edge and they will skin you alive :P
Gone door to door? Buddy get a life ... let it go its just the internet
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JimmySask @ 26th Mar 02:42AM:
Re: Wow.

Not true. SaskTel does not throttle, nor are there usage caps.
--
I do whatever my Rice Krispies tell me too....

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anon @ 26th Mar 06:45AM:
Re: A question no one wants to ask - is there a need to throttle

Please ....

Don't you think those fat dividends for decades could not have fixed this situation ? Do you really think that Bell should continue making fat profits on technology we have paid for 100 times over (copper lines) ?

Don't you think they should have re-invested in bandwidth improvement during this time ?

Let's face it .. .they got caught with their pants down .. just like IBM did when it gave PC technology away to Bill Gates.

The mammoth has been caught in the middle of the street with it's eyes wide open ... most likely by the headlights of an oncoming vehicle at full throttle (no pun intended).

BELL BOTTOMS.
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ptrowski @ 26th Mar 08:17AM:
Re: Too bad you can't throttle your payments

said by TKJunkMail :

said by hottboiinnc :

The sad way in many states it does. You can write your check out to a dollar amount in the memo section write "paid in full" and as long as the person cashes the check; that bill is paid in full.
And that also opens you up to charges of FRAUD - a criminal offense.
You sir are 110% wrong. It's not fraud, it just doesn't work.
--
"A religious war is like children fighting over who has the strongest imaginary friend."

Have you been touched by his noodly appendage? »www.venganza.org

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ptrowski @ 26th Mar 08:19AM:
Re: GOD DAMIT !!

said by Ulmo :

"Move."
Oh yeah, wicked helpful answer there.
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mlerner @ 26th Mar 08:22AM:
Re: Wow.

said by JimmySask :

Not true. SaskTel does not throttle, nor are there usage caps.
Not for the moment, but their transit is provided by Bell Nexxia so watch out.
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jhaygood86 @ 26th Mar 01:18PM:
Re: Wow.

Compton doesn't throttle either, but their market reach is fairly limited (2 rural towns in Durham Region, Ontario)
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wifi4milez @ 26th Mar 02:11PM:
Re: How are they doing this?

said by mlerner :

said by wifi4milez :

It was my understanding that Teksavvy was a true wholesale provider, meaning that they provided their own internet access and simply used the Bell copper last mile (as opposed to being a reseller). If they have all their own equipment, and are their own ISP, where is the throttling happening? Is Bell throttling the last mile between the customer and Teksavvy, and if so, how are they doing that?
Bell is still the last mile provider, as they own and provision the copper for voice and DSL, from the CO the traffic goes through Bell's nationwide ATM transit and then usually to Toronto where Bell sends off the packets to the provider's network.
So then Teksavvy doesnt have their own equipment in the CO's I take it? I believe that Covad does place their own equipment in all their serving CO's here in the US, so I assume this type of network management wouldnt affect them (in a similar situation)? If thats the case, Teksavvy may want to consider the (expensive) idea that they might need to follow suit in order to differentiate themselves from the Bell resellers.
--
с новым годом

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mlerner @ 26th Mar 03:34PM:
Re: How are they doing this?

said by wifi4milez :

So then Teksavvy doesnt have their own equipment in the CO's I take it? I believe that Covad does place their own equipment in all their serving CO's here in the US, so I assume this type of network management wouldnt affect them (in a similar situation)? If thats the case, Teksavvy may want to consider the (expensive) idea that they might need to follow suit in order to differentiate themselves from the Bell resellers.
The majority of Bell resellers do not have their own equipment as Bell is providing the transit from the CO to the reseller's network reducing costs substantially, however there are some like Primus that have their own equipment in some areas and it's still very limited.

This has been discussed for the past few days and would be the only alternative. The problem is funding as it can cost tens of thousands of dollars per CO and the only funding that is viable is a partnership between the resellers which would depend on the resellers and whether it fits in their business plan.
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anon @ 26th Mar 03:58PM:
Re: Too bad you can't throttle your payments

Hehe, That's why bell forces you to use pre-authorized credit card or debit for payment ;)
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anon @ 26th Mar 03:59PM:
Re: A question no one wants to ask - is there a need to throttle

Unfortunately, you assume that someone at bell knows how to run a corporation...

Likely bell's plan is to put off those expenditures for 8 to 12 YEARS!
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anon @ 26th Mar 08:30PM:
Cable companies and Throttling

Rogers, Shaw, and Cogico all have throttled their upstreams as of this date, March 26th/08. Even home users with HIGH SPEED EXTREME modems are limited to 5 to 10k/s total upstream on FTP and Torrent applications. I had to buy a service for $25.00 a month to get onto the NewsGroups as Rogers doesn't support them either.

sturog
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anon @ 27th Mar 12:31AM:
Bell's getting worse and worse.

I remember when bell used to be a decent service, unlimited bandwidth for a flat fee, as a student myself i even got a discount from them which made the deal really sweet.

Then i guess they realized, why are we providing all these nice features when we can charge for them, and there went the unlimited bandwidth, and my student discount and now i learn they're throttling?

Forget bell, i'm now in search for a new ISP.
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root9 @ 27th Mar 11:14AM:
Re: Who cares

re: Gone door to door? Buddy get a life ... let it go its just the internet
Thankx for the compliments

Let it go? Not if hell freezes over ... when it's my bread and butter! Maybe you'd like to work, get paid ... but only 30% of your pay shows up on pay day :P
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root9 @ 27th Mar 11:27AM:
Re: accusync

Already looking into it since first time teachers pension fund wanted to buy it.

They have ties in USA and other places which are under scrutiny as well.
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Rodenback @ 27th Mar 04:42PM:
Re: Abanodon or reduce your services on your Bell land lines

said by Leave Bell :

Very simple,

If you are a Bell phone customer and have the option switch land line providers or reduce your services to a Basic land line. Make sure that when they ask you why, make it clear it is because of what they do to internet users. The left hand will eventually talk to the right hand.

Question: Are there any ADLS providers in the Montreal Aerea using their own DSLAM?

Taf


Distributel is in the process of rolling out it's first DSLAM in the Ontario CO in Montreal.

Given real interest from the independant ISPs I'm sure more could be lots more coming.

Although it takes around six months to build a colocation and roll out a DSLAM.
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JimmySmith @ 27th Mar 08:22PM:
Get used to it

As the amount of internet traffic increases ISPs will be forced to throttle bandwidth to properly manage their networks. It's an inconvenient truth.
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anon @ 27th Mar 11:41PM:
Throttling? More like choking

I have deliberately started some bittorrents to watch the speed vs time of day. It seems to be continually choked off. Where speeds of 500K/s were typical before now they never get above 50K/s, and at peak times are 25K/s (peak time is virtually all the time, it seems).

I use bittorrent to collect live concerts which are shared by fans and ok'd by the bands themselves. It's not illegal. I also grab linux distros. I chose a high speed connection and pay the higher price to allow me to do this specific purpose. I download about 10-15GB a month. Now Bell arbitrarily decides it needs to throttle this particular protocol. I could live with reductions at peak times from 500K to 300K or even down occasionally to the same rate as the upload speed, but 25K?! Virtually all the time?! While my monthly fee remains the same? This is criminal. I don't even subscribe to Bell. I can't tell them what to go do with their service. If I dump my ISP, I'm hurting Teksavvy, whom I have no complaints against whatsoever.

This fish stinks from the head down.
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dirtyjeffer @ 29th Mar 01:48PM:
Re: Get used to it

said by JimmySmith :

As the amount of internet traffic increases ISPs will be forced to throttle bandwidth to properly manage their networks. It's an inconvenient truth.
what they should be doing is investing in their network and expanding it to handle the increased usage...this is yet another example of poor management at Bell.
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anon @ 30th Mar 04:24AM:
Down with Bell!

Lol Bell is by far the worst ISP ever! Their customer service is poop, ever tried to call tech support after 6pm? Good luck cuz you're calling India my friends. I'm all for an outright ban on Bell products, spread the word, ditch bell wireless and ExpressVu(TV just for spite, the other options are also not deserving of your business).
For members of Teksavvy you may not be aware of it but they offer an excellent news server with binary files, and the best part is that there's no way for Bell to throttle it and it will download at the max speed of your connection.
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murffy100 @ 15th Apr 07:45AM:
NortherTel ( Bell North) Throttles Costomers

:mad: The Company was Deceitfull :mad:

NortherTel offered me a new better contract, but in the back ground they were trying to get me off the service I was on to there new service.
In the beginning I had high speed with Static IP at 4500 down and 450 up on the new package I have dynamic IP,1800 down 100 up, Page through terrible. The sales rep said that there would be no change to my service.
How wrong was I that thought they were a honest company. On that note I will move over to Ontera.ca »www.ontera.ca/en/fh_internetdsl.html
(which cost more and less speed but they are honest company.
NortherTel ( Bell North) Throttles Costomers without notice!!
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