Cablevision To Stop Selling Analog Basic - Though existing customers won't have to migrate
Links: home · search · speed test · login · more ·
Cablevision To Stop Selling Analog Basic
Though existing customers won't have to migrate
(old news - 10:29AM Thursday Mar 12 2009)
tags: Video · business · cable · content · networking · Cablevision
Cablevision gives us a nudge to note that the NY-area cable operator has decided to stop selling an analog expanded basic tier by the end of this year. "We will be the first major cable company in the nation to stop selling analog expanded basic," spokesman Jim Maiella tells us. Since analog signals take up ten times the bandwidth of digital, the transition can't come soon enough for many carriers, who are competing with the already all-digital services from carriers like DirecTV and Verizon.
According to Cablevision, more than 91% of their 3.1 million TV customers receive digital service, the highest rate of digital adoption in the country. About 5% of their customers receive analog expanded basic service, and these customers will be grandfathered (via analog simulcasts) -- and won't have to act to change their service. New customers will only be able to choose from Cablevision digital tiers.
"The vast majority of our customers have already embraced this standard, and Cablevision's move away from analog expanded basic for new customers is the next logical step in an evolution that will deliver clear benefits including more programming, particularly HD, and additional choice," says John Trierweiler, Cablevision's senior vice president of product management.
Related:- What's Behind Slow FiOS HD Deployment?
- Verizon Uses Your Forum Complaints Against Cablevision
- DOJ Urges Supremes Not To Hear Network DVR Case
- Rogers Still Injecting Content Over Sites
- Google Voice Ban Is Clear Network Neutrality Violation
- Broadcasters, Cable Bicker Over 'TV Everywhere'
- What Network Neutrality Is REALLY About
- Cable Industry: Shucks, Guess Nobody Wants CableCARDs
|
Links: New Topic
Forums »
page: 1 · 2
ITGuy72 @ 12th Mar 10:23AM:
Good news
Bring on more HD channels.
reply
Chris 313 @ 12th Mar 10:23AM:
Good for them!
I wonder what they'll do to existing customers later? Offer a upgrade path, or discounted digital service for 6-12 months to get them to switch to digital service?
It'd be interesting to see what they do next.
91% digital customer base? Very impressive. Too bad Comcast hasn't done that yet.
reply
stevek1949 @ 12th Mar 10:24AM:
FIOS Has Been Digital for over a year.
"We will be the first major cable company in the nation to stop selling analog expanded basic,"
FIOS has been all digital for over a year. I suspect that all cable systems will move this way as a revenue producer to get the STB fees.
reply
Jmartz @ 12th Mar 10:28AM:
Pointless
Of course with all of this newly acquired space, they will still be compressing the crap out of their HD, which looks terrible now on some channels.
Would be nice if Cablevision would negotiate agreements for channels like ESPN U, Big Ten Network, and FOX Business... and don't forget about BBC America!
They have this ongoing need to offer a lot of HD.. most of which is just stretched SD. They seem to have forgotten about all the SD channels they aren't, or refuse to carry.
reply
Eat Me @ 12th Mar 10:31AM:
Re: FIOS Has Been Digital for over a year.
Verizon is a phone company, not a cable company.
Yeah yeah I know under state franchises they'll be classified as a cable company (and I agree that they are more like a cable company than a phone company with FiOS) but I'm sure this is what CV will say when people say that FiOS was first.
reply
Gres7 @ 12th Mar 10:55AM:
Why should anyone
pay (even $15 + Box/remote rental) if you could get it free off air?
I have build my own UHF antenna in 1 hour (as per uhfhdtvantenna.blogspot.com ) put it on my attic and picture is just as good or maybe even better.
reply
dslwanter @ 12th Mar 10:55AM:
Good
Analog signals do take up too much space. Just think of what a cable op can do with that extra space, more HD channels, maybe less HD compression, perhaps more room for DOCSIS 3.0, etc.
I think the only problem they may run into is people not wanting to pay for a box, unless of course they're going to give it for free with the service.
--
Need a DJ within 60 miles of Youngstown, OH? Check out my service: »www.thebomb102djservice.com
reply
Eat Me @ 12th Mar 11:03AM:
Re: Why should anyone
Some people can't get reception even if they have a high gain rooftop antenna.
With interference from white space devices, this may be even more widespread.
reply
djrobx @ 12th Mar 11:13AM:
Re: Good
People who don't want to rent the boxes have nowhere to go. The alternatives, satellite and telco TV, also require some sort of set top.
As for OTA - this article is about expanded basic. Sounds like they're still selling "broadcast" basic (OTA equivalent for people who can't get OTA).
--
AT&T U-Hearse
Your funeral. Delivered.
reply
Youngjm @ 12th Mar 11:16AM:
Re: Good for them!
91% have embraced digital service but are they using digital on all the sets in the home? I know I have digital service but at least 3 sets still rely on analog signals.
reply
viperlmw @ 12th Mar 11:16AM:
Re: Why should anyone
said by Eat Me :
Some people can't get reception even if they have a high gain rooftop antenna.
With interference from white space devices, this may be even more widespread.
QFT
reply
Big Pete 82 @ 12th Mar 11:33AM:
Re: Good for them!
said by Youngjm :
91% have embraced digital service but are they using digital on all the sets in the home? I know I have digital service but at least 3 sets still rely on analog signals.
What you are describing I think is where shit is going to hit the fan. Does the 91% count the families with secondary tvs on analog? Very few families will be willing to upgrade their other 2 or 3 tvs from analog if they have to pay an extra $15-20 for a bunch of set top boxes. Who knows, maybe the Cable Co will just start giving away some sort of digital converter to appease them, but that could get expensive too.
reply
en102 @ 12th Mar 11:37AM:
Re: Good
I was wondering that myself.
I always thought that 'broadcast basic' - aka channels 2-13
was somewhat regulated. I know a few years back on Commiecast, they would not sell broadcast basic to me, and stated that it was not available for my zipcode. :uhh:
--
Canada = Hollywood North
reply
LurkerLito @ 12th Mar 11:40AM:
Re: Good for them!
I have the same issue. I have 2 TVs that I am renting a box from Cablevision (1 HD, 1 standard) and 4 other TVs that depend on the analog channels. If every TV will require a box Cablevision will definitely lose me as a customer. If I will need a Box on every TV I might as well move to FIOS triple play. The analog stations are the ONLY reason I am keeping the Cablevision TV service because FIOS will be more expensive if I have to rent boxes for the other TVs.
reply
HiDesert @ 12th Mar 11:42AM:
Re: Good for them!
said by Chris 313 :
91% digital customer base? Very impressive. Too bad Comcast hasn't done that yet.
Last I checked Comcast digital service was allot more $$ then the expanded service and half the channels were still on the analog spectrum anyways. The one thing that really bugged me about comcast digital HD boxes made by Scientific-Atlanta was the volumn levels would vary hugely from channel to channel and the regular SD channels colors would be too rich.. not accurate, the analog ones still suffered from interference and the HD was the only ones that looked decent. In my area, the digital service is worse then the analog for CC.. Actually, compared to my Dish they are both crap. But that is with the Scientific-Atlanta boxes.
reply
ggmorton @ 12th Mar 11:47AM:
QAM tuner
A QAM tuner is what is needed by the people who don't want to rent a new cable box. The government should require this functionality as well for all new TVs. As long as the cable companies broadcast it in the clear, then it will work.
reply
fmorriso @ 12th Mar 11:55AM:
Better than Adelphia's approach in October 2005
This is much better than what Adelphia did to its analog customers back in October 2005.
I remember when Adelphia's analog system went down and, instead of fixing it, they simply told anyone who called that they refuse to fix the analog system and that we would all have to bring in our analog converter boxes to their office and exchange them for a digital one, which included the much higher monthly programming price tag for digital service. It was the height of arrogance.
Needless to say, I became a satellite TV viewer that same week and, when I finally went in to give Adelphia back the analog converter box, I gladly announced in a loud voice to the 10-15 people waiting in line that I didn't want or need Adelphia's cable service because I am now getting a much clearer picture on more channels at a lower cost via satellite than even the old Adelphia analog monthly cost.
reply
anon @ 12th Mar 11:56AM:
Re: Good for them!
most cable companies will be letting people borrow two free dtas. these are boxes that will convert the signal the only problem is they dont do ondemand or get the digital programing guide. comcast is handing them out in the bay area of California.
reply
xirian @ 12th Mar 12:12PM:
Re: QAM tuner
The digital version of anything outside of broadcast basic is encrypted.
reply
HiDesert @ 12th Mar 12:25PM:
Re: Better than Adelphia's approach in October 2005
said by fmorriso :
I am now getting a much clearer picture on more channels at a lower cost via satellite than even the old Adelphia analog monthly cost.
This is not hard to do. I have a Dish 322 dual tuner with radio controlled remotes for the cost of only one receiver. I also have better PQ and more channels then comcast expanded for LESS money. IMO, the only thing holding things together for the overpriced cable companies is the fact that you can still plug in additional sets at no extra cost via the RG6 coax. If they choose to go this route they will have to give out free boxes or they will be faced with competing with the satellite companies on price.. And at this point, they can't. So they would be forced to decrease prices or face loosing a ton of market share. In this case, 9 percent still use analog and those people at this point are not interested in paying more or migrating to digital. Therefore they Grandfathered them in the old analog service since nobody is willing to loose 5% or 9 percent market share over night. And like others have said, how many are still using the analog along with a digital combo? For those will the analog stream just die.. I'm thinking it will still be there its just new customers won't be able to order it. But those 9 percent at this point are probably not interested in upgrading to the more expensive digital. And how many others would bail that are still using the analog along with digital boxes. They potentially could loose more then 9 percent. So they are delaying the inevitable. What are they eventually going to do with these customers? Do bad and force them to pay more (and loose them no doubt as customers) or give out free boxes. Obviously, they don't know and are just delaying the problem.
Cable companies have a real problem on their hands. Over the years they have outpaced satellite in price. The only thing that has benefited the extra cost is the option to plug a dozen sets to the analog spectrum. When they do finally pull the plug it will be happy days for DTV and DISH.
reply
majortom1029 @ 12th Mar 12:28PM:
UGh
Guys stop being hypocrites. I didn't see the uproar when verizon stopped analog with fios tv. So stop with the complaining.
Then go and move to fios over it considering you need a box for every tv over there also.
reply
ricklg @ 12th Mar 12:34PM:
Re: QAM tuner
said by xirian :
The digital version of anything outside of broadcast basic is encrypted.
Not quite, but almost. I got an HD TV for Christmas. I connected it directly to the cable (Comcast) just to see how it worked and got the local channels plus A&E and the Golf channel on HD. I had sort of expected that all the Expanded Basic HD channels would be available on the direct connect, but alas no. You have to live with channels numbers like 127-402 and figure out what they are...sigh.
Because there are only about 3 more channels that I'd watch in Comcast's paltry HD channel list I guess this is good enough for now given that I'd have to pay money to see them. I do miss the on screen channel guide tho.
Oh, I watch the rest of the channels on analog so I expect a change to satellite (or whatever is cost effective at the time) when analog goes away.
reply
anon @ 12th Mar 12:35PM:
Comcast
I got a notice in my bill last month that Comcrap would no longer sign up new analog basic customers. I have basic cable to get a discount on my 'net. It works out to the same price every month but now I have tv too. QAM is much more reliable than the antenna on my house.
reply
BF69 @ 12th Mar 12:35PM:
Re: FIOS Has Been Digital for over a year.
said by stevek1949 :
"We will be the first major cable company in the nation to stop selling analog expanded basic,"
FIOS has been all digital for over a year. I suspect that all cable systems will move this way as a revenue producer to get the STB fees.
FiOS isn't cable.
reply
BF69 @ 12th Mar 12:39PM:
Re: Why should anyone
said by Eat Me :
Some people can't get reception even if they have a high gain rooftop antenna.
With interference from white space devices, this may be even more widespread.
For MOST people this isn't an issue. Like 95% or more.
whitespace devices? talk about red herring. There aren't aren't ANY white space devices out there yet to interfere and probably won't be for YEARS. Also the interference issue as a whole is bullshit.
reply
HiDesert @ 12th Mar 12:42PM:
Re: UGh
said by majortom1029 :
Guys stop being hypocrites. I didn't see the uproar when verizon stopped analog with fios tv. So stop with the complaining.
Then go and move to fios over it considering you need a box for every tv over there also.
The point is the cable companies still have a fair number of subs that still want their analog and not have to worry about boxes and have the ability to plug a half dozen sets. Many of these subs don't mind paying more for cable over satellite if they can still plug in multiple sets. In the case of Verizon, they have a distinct marketing advantage of a all fiber system to the house. They don't have a bunch of existing analog customers that may be resisting change. But more importantly, public perception of the FIO's s settup is much more positive wheras companies like CC have a very low public ratings and poor PR. The result is Verizon can get away with it since its ok with the public.. since at this point is liking their service. Companies like CC may have a big problem if they do the same thing since many of their customers are looking for a reason to leave. I know several people who are not all that happy with their CC service. I hear a lot more negative on these forums about cable then I do about the new FiOs service. So don't compare the two. Because even though you may be right in theory, in the end, public PERCEPTION will always prevail. In short, Verizon can do an all digital system because they can. They don't have to follow the same rules.. because for the most part, they have the customers on their side.
reply
BF69 @ 12th Mar 12:43PM:
Re: Good for them!
said by LurkerLito :
I have the same issue. I have 2 TVs that I am renting a box from Cablevision (1 HD, 1 standard) and 4 other TVs that depend on the analog channels. If every TV will require a box Cablevision will definitely lose me as a customer. If I will need a Box on every TV I might as well move to FIOS triple play. The analog stations are the ONLY reason I am keeping the Cablevision TV service because FIOS will be more expensive if I have to rent boxes for the other TVs.
every other service required a box for each TV. DirecTv requires it. If cable does it they are "evil".
reply
hobgoblin @ 12th Mar 12:46PM:
Re: UGh
"I hear a lot more negative on these forums about cable then I do about the new FiOs service."
Obviously! Cable has many more customers than FIOS.
Hob
--
"A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds."
- Ralph Waldo Emerson
reply
BF69 @ 12th Mar 12:47PM:
Re: UGh
said by HiDesert :
The point is the cable companies still have a fair number of subs that still want their analog and not have to worry about boxes and have the ability to plug a half dozen sets. Many of these subs don't mind paying more for cable over satellite if they can still plug in multiple sets.
Too bad. Boo hoo. If they go with DirecTv or Dish they have to have a box for each TV. WTF is the difference? I bet there are many people who still want their analog OTA Tv, guess what June 12th that goes bye bye. Times change. that's life.
reply
HiDesert @ 12th Mar 12:57PM:
Re: Good for them!
said by BF69 :said by LurkerLito :
If cable does it they are "evil".
Again, it about perception and not what is fair. Cable having offered this service for so many years will loose customers who are price driven in their choices. If comcast suddenly dropped their analog and charged as much as verizon then which service would you choose based on performance? I think most would jump all over Verizon that brings the fiber right to your door. As it is, people's perception on Fios has so much more positive brand recognition that they don't have to play fair with the cable companies. Like it or not, this I think everyone knows as the underlying truth. If cable really does pull the plug they will indeed be forced to compete with satellite in price.. They won't have that you can plug as many tv's as you want advantage. Take that away and they will be price driven like everyone else.
reply
xirian @ 12th Mar 01:00PM:
Re: QAM tuner
We're talking cablevision here though. With a QAM tuner all I get is Broadcast basic plus whatever on demand people are watching.
reply
BF69 @ 12th Mar 01:05PM:
Re: Good for them!
said by HiDesert :said by BF69 :said by LurkerLito :
If cable does it they are "evil".
Again, it about perception and not what is fair. Cable having offered this service for so many years will loose customers who are price driven in their choices. If comcast suddenly dropped their analog and charged as much as verizon then which service would you choose based on performance? I think most would jump all over Verizon that brings the fiber right to your door.
Ok first of all MOST peole don't have FiOS as an option. And frankly if you do and you still have cable then you're kind of stupid ayways.
Most people's other choice is satelite which also requires you to have a box for each TV and they also charge for each extra box. So basically you suggest one is going to cancel cable because they are required to have box for another service that also requires having a box.
reply
Eat Me @ 12th Mar 01:06PM:
Re: FIOS Has Been Digital for over a year.
said by BF69 :said by stevek1949 :
"We will be the first major cable company in the nation to stop selling analog expanded basic,"
FIOS has been all digital for over a year. I suspect that all cable systems will move this way as a revenue producer to get the STB fees.
FiOS isn't cable.
FiOS internet isn't cable, but FiOS TV is regulated like cable by the authorities.
reply
Eat Me @ 12th Mar 01:07PM:
Re: Why should anyone
5% of the population is like 150,000 people. That's more than the population of some countries.
reply
HiDesert @ 12th Mar 01:07PM:
Re: UGh
said by BF69 :said by HiDesert :
Too bad. Boo hoo. If they go with DirecTv or Dish they have to have a box for each TV. WTF is the difference? I bet there are many people who still want their analog OTA Tv, guess what June 12th that goes bye bye. Times change. that's life.
The difference is with my Dish I still have two sets for the price of one dual tuner box with radio controlled remotes that has much better software and PQ for less money then comcast's expanded basic. Which really drives home the point of why would anyone want to pay more and get no interactive guide, no remotes, ingress interference, no music channels, less channels etc.. ???? The reason being you can have all you can eat.. plug as many sets as you like for the higher cost for that expanded basic over the higher quality satellite sevice. Once you take that benefit away its not so appealing is it? And if you want to compare costs of digital cable to Dish then it gets even worse. IMO Comcast's digital service is not remotely competitive price wise with satellite. I guess that's why so many people in Albuquerque are still using their basic or expanded basic services. CC would have to restructure their prices if they forced their subs to digital or they would face the consequences believe me.
As for the OTA transition what is your point? Those customers will have a ONE time expense of buying a 50 dollar converter that can convert those signals.. and if they put in for their rebate the Feds will pay of it. And like I said, its a one time cost. The OTA digital stream will still be free unlike CC/satellite/Verizon which are consumable recurring costs.
reply
BF69 @ 12th Mar 01:13PM:
Re: Why should anyone
said by Eat Me :
5% of the population is like 150,000 people. That's more than the population of some countries.
5% is actually 15 million. Who cares. It's probably not even 5%. And its not like 100% of the population is going to go to OTA anyways.
reply
amungus @ 12th Mar 01:15PM:
Re: Better than Adelphia's approach in October 2005
Indeed. My parents just got Dish, single receiver (311 I think), and it works fine. They don't have HD, probably won't for awhile, and they don't care...
Basically about the same channels as cable, maybe some other junk ones thrown in to increase the count... but the quality is far more consistent than analog cable systems can provide, and the price is about $5-10/mo. cheaper. No contract, cheaper rate, better quality, oh, and there's no rental fee for standard boxes...
Sure, they all charge to lease a DVR, but that's to be expected.
A standard def tuner, however, had better be free, or nearly free, or people won't go for it.
The stats for digital customers may seem impressive here, but like everywhere else, there is VERY likely at least one other TV in the house that simply gets a coax line and whatever analog channels are available.
If cable wants digital service to succeed, they need to work with TV manufacturers to bring back the "cable ready" standard that has existed for so long...
Analog "cable ready" worked great.
This business of needing to rent a box, or rent a cable card, is absurd. If the service is being paid for, let people have it. They really should get rid of the requirement for cable card/box unless "premium" content is requested.
Clear QAM channels should include ALL of the ones that were available in "clear" analog form.
One should be able to buy a new TV, plug in the coax, and still get the "expanded basic" channels that were previously available on analog.
The customer should also be able to purchase a clear QAM box of their own, just like these DTV converters.
If a box is absolutely required, it'd make things easier for the cable companies, the customers, and the manufacturers...
I understand needing to free up spectrum on their lines for more HD, faster internet, etc. but it'd sure be nice if they could migrate to digital services that work in a similar fashion to the analog world...
Just include a box (or 4) with the price of service, and make the channels that were on analog available in 'clear' digital format, and problems would be few.
Maybe that all just makes too much sense, I don't know....
reply
BF69 @ 12th Mar 01:18PM:
Re: UGh
said by HiDesert :
The difference is with my Dish I still have two sets for the price of one dual tuner box with radio controlled remotes that has much better software and PQ then comcast's expanded basic. Which really drives home the point of why would anyone want to pay more and get no interactive guide, no remotes, ingress interference, no music channels, less channels etc.. ???? The reason being you can have all you can eat.. plug as many sets as you like for the higher cost for that expanded basic over the higher quality satellite sevice. Once you take that benefit away its not so appealing is it? And if you want to compare costs of digital cable to Dish then it gets even worse. IMO Comcast's digital service is not remotely competitive price wise with satellite. I guess that's why so many people in Albuquerque are still using their basic or expanded basic services. CC would have to restructure their prices if they forced their subs to digital or they would face the consequences believe me.
then those people will switch to dish. it's called market forces. If enough people switch it will hurt cablevision. and you care why?
As for the OTA transition what is your point?
My point is times change, things change, technology changes. Not every wants to hop on the train. Well then get left behind. Everyone who doesn't want to ride think they should hold up the train for everyone else.
reply
amungus @ 12th Mar 01:21PM:
Re: UGh
difference is no rental fee..
sat. companies will set you up with up to 4 boxes - HD DVR is extra, just like cable... otherwise, the SD tuners are essentially not charged for AFIK...
Cable needs to make all channels that were previously "clear" on analog to be "clear" digitally...
Don't most new sets have clear QAM tuning built in??????
They could probably afford to build in a $1/mo. extra to rent another cheapo converter, or tell people to go buy their own converter... much like a DTV converter box, with a QAM tuner built in... Make it like modem rental/ownership and leave the main channels "in the clear" and this becomes a non-issue...
reply
Kearnstd @ 12th Mar 01:33PM:
Re: UGh
Comcast is rolling out a DTA project that is just that, a tiny box that is simply a QAM tuner. they call it a Digital Terminal Adaptor or something.
--
[65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports
reply
Lazlow @ 12th Mar 01:38PM:
QAM
I am all for the cable companies switching over to digital. However, I think the FCC needs to step in and make them have a fair number of the channels be on unencrypted QAM. For basic cable (digital) there should be no reason that an individual has to have a box. Virtually all digital TVs come with a QAM tuner, so why are they pulling channels off of analog and moving them to encrypted digital, when the could just be broadcasting them in "clear" digital?
reply
HiDesert @ 12th Mar 01:39PM:
Re: UGh
said by BF69 :said by HiDesert :
then those people will switch to dish. it's called market forces. If enough people switch it will hurt cablevision. and you care why?
Not that I care, I was replying to your statement "WTF is the difference" which I explained in my personal experience with CC and Dish. I really could give a crap about CC or cable that's for sure.
As for the OTA transition what is your point?
My point is times change, things change, technology changes. Not every wants to hop on the train. Well then get left behind. Everyone who doesn't want to ride think they should hold up the train for everyone else.
From what I have heard, most the people who will be affected have already responded by getting the converter box which also qualifies for the federal rebate. However, some of these folks will still have issues being you need line of sight and the digital OTA is highly directional.. In some cases, people will not be able to continue getting free OTA but it has nothing to do with not going along with change. But I am confused why you feel they would be holding up the train for everyone else if they don't do the digital OTA? It has Zero do do with Cable/satellite. That freed up analog spectrum will be used for other new technologies. It has nothing to do with cable dropping their analog service which is also fine. My point, is if they do that they will find themselves in bad shape to compete for price driven consumers.
reply
HiDesert @ 12th Mar 01:43PM:
Re: QAM
said by Lazlow :
so why are they pulling channels off of analog and moving them to encrypted digital, when the could just be broadcasting them in "clear" digital?
You really want an answer to that? Obviously, to help, push or nudge you into their digital offerings that have fatter margins. Like you said, it will probably take some regulation to enforce it.
reply
Eat Me @ 12th Mar 01:43PM:
Re: Why should anyone
said by BF69 :
5% is actually 15 million. Who cares. It's probably not even 5%. And its not like 100% of the population is going to go to OTA anyways.
There are other things besides TV that use that spectrum.
Who cares whether 100% of the population is going OTA. Interference is interference.
reply
maartena @ 12th Mar 01:45PM:
Re: Good for them!
said by Youngjm :
91% have embraced digital service but are they using digital on all the sets in the home? I know I have digital service but at least 3 sets still rely on analog signals.
Exactly. I have two TV's. Well, one is a HDTV 40" in the living room with digital HD-DVR tuner from TWC... basically "the works". The other is my TV card in my computer, which relies on analog channels. Now, I am not too cheap to go and pay the extra $6 for another tuner if I need to hook it up, but there are plenty of families out there with 4 TV's, and only the livingroom TV actually is setup to be digital. This may count as a "digital customer" and counted in the 91%, but it isn't quite accurate. Getting all the other TV's hooked up to all digital may end up costing a family $15 to $20 a month extra.
reply
insomniac84 @ 12th Mar 01:45PM:
Bye bye media centers.
RIP media center PCs.
reply
maartena @ 12th Mar 01:52PM:
Re: Why should anyone
said by Gres7 :
pay (even $15 + Box/remote rental) if you could get it free off air?
Let's see if I can get Discovery Channel or CNN for free off the air..... ;)
reply
HiDesert @ 12th Mar 01:52PM:
Re: Why should anyone
said by Eat Me :said by BF69 :
There are other things besides TV that use that spectrum.
Who cares whether 100% of the population is going OTA. Interference is interference.
Thats a good point. I don't think the FCC is doing enough regulation on how these frequencies are going to be used. No doubt, there will be allot of interference issues coming our way. I used to work for Sennheisser which made wireless mics, body packs, wireless tuners, and they were very afraid that their customers could have issues using their products once they unleashed the multitude of devices that are about to invade our airways. The last I checked, the FCC was being pretty loose about how people could use these newly aquired spectrums that were sold at auction.
reply
contsole @ 12th Mar 02:09PM:
Digital
Didn't Manhattan cable switch to 100% digital years ago to reduce rampant cable theft that's impossible to police in high rises?
reply
bender @ 12th Mar 02:17PM:
Re: Bye bye media centers.
yes it is indeed a sad day.
reply
BF69 @ 12th Mar 02:19PM:
Re: Why should anyone
said by Eat Me :said by BF69 :
5% is actually 15 million. Who cares. It's probably not even 5%. And its not like 100% of the population is going to go to OTA anyways.
There are other things besides TV that use that spectrum.
Who cares whether 100% of the population is going OTA. Interference is interference.
Show me ONE white space device that has FCC approval and is ready for mass marketing.
reply
dadkins @ 12th Mar 02:29PM:
Re: Bye bye media centers.
said by insomniac84 :
RIP media center PCs.
What? No digital ClearQAM tuner?
»www.avermedia-usa.com/AVerTV/pro···x?Id=472
My XP MCE 2005 laptop has an IR Blaster for controling a cable box. Media Center will live on quite well here. :)
EDIT: The remote & IR Blaster that works on my XP MCE laptop also works on this laptop with the QAM tuner.
The QAM tuner is USB and integrates into MCE as well so any Media Center machine will service you and I for the forseeable future. ;)
--
Think outside the Fox... Opera
reply
Eat Me @ 12th Mar 02:30PM:
Re: Why should anyone
Thankfully there aren't any.
reply
dadkins @ 12th Mar 02:35PM:
Re: UGh
said by BF69 :
Too bad. Boo hoo. If they go with DirecTv or Dish they have to have a box for each TV.
»www.dishnetwork.com/receivers/sd···ult.aspx
"The Duo 322 receiver features two tuners for independent satellite TV viewing on two separate televisions, all in a slim-line design."
Not always... :o
--
Think outside the Fox... Opera
reply
tmc8080 @ 12th Mar 02:38PM:
basic spectrum
said by Lazlow :
I am all for the cable companies switching over to digital. However, I think the FCC needs to step in and make them have a fair number of the channels be on unencrypted QAM. For basic cable (digital) there should be no reason that an individual has to have a box. Virtually all digital TVs come with a QAM tuner, so why are they pulling channels off of analog and moving them to encrypted digital, when the could just be broadcasting them in "clear" digital?
does QAM = ASTC?
If cablevision could modulate a basic set of upto 30 channels in atsc (with some modification of the coax at the customer premise) this would go a long way to keeping those customers happy with a $10/month package and not have to rent a box (or possibly have a SMALL one time fee). most new digital tv sets are atsc capable.. and I'm sure there are ways of modulating a digital signal-- although modulators /digital atsc signal injectors are not commerically available for ordinary consumers, just yet.
reply
RARPSL @ 12th Mar 03:03PM:
Re: Good news
said by ITGuy72 :
Bring on more HD channels.
Along with their SD Counterparts. Unless you have a HD STB/DVR having CV provide NetworkX-HD is of no use to you unless they also carry NetworkX-SD. For example, if they were to offer BBC-America (which is one of the most requested non-carried channels) only as BBC-AmericaHD they are not really offering it without also carrying BBC-America-SD.
reply
ryeny3 @ 12th Mar 03:13PM:
Cablevision vs. FiOS
Both Cablevision and FiOS are available in our area. In addition to our other TVs, we have some wall mounted models with QAM, ATSC and analog tuners. Since there is no easy way to attach boxes to some of our equipment, we stayed with Cablevision until the company began eliminating channels from their analog expanded expanded basic tier. Since some of the dropped channels were important to my family, we switched to FiOS.
I am not complaining about Cablevision's decision to drop some or all of their analog expanded basic channels, but their elimination took away my family's incentive to remain with cable. Since both cable and FiOS require boxes for many channels, we picked FiOS based on the number of and quality of its HD offerings. If one company would make all of their digital channels available without boxes, we would willingly pay more for their product.
reply
BF69 @ 12th Mar 03:17PM:
Re: UGh
said by dadkins :said by BF69 :
Too bad. Boo hoo. If they go with DirecTv or Dish they have to have a box for each TV.
»
www.dishnetwork.com/receivers/sd···ult.aspx"The Duo 322 receiver features two tuners for independent satellite TV viewing on two separate televisions, all in a slim-line design."
Not always... :o
what if you have 3 Tvs?
reply
Lazlow @ 12th Mar 03:26PM:
Re: basic spectrum
QAM is the cable equivalent of ASTC. Most digital TVs also have a QAM tuner.
»en.wikipedia.org/wiki/QAM_tuner
reply
Gres7 @ 12th Mar 03:27PM:
Re: Why should anyone
said by maartena :said by Gres7 :
pay (even $15 + Box/remote rental) if you could get it free off air?
Let's see if I can get Discovery Channel or CNN for free off the air..... ;)
There is no CNN or Discovery on "Broadcast Basic Channels".
reply
Da Man @ 12th Mar 03:43PM:
Re: FIOS Has Been Digital for over a year.
Comcast has stopped selling exp basic in some areas about a month ago so they still fail.
reply
real_goose @ 12th Mar 03:44PM:
Re: Why should anyone
In Athens Greece CNN is broadcast over the air as well as MTV, EuroNews, EuroSports, and even shopping channels. If enough people switch to OTA, there is a business opportunity.
reply
insomniac84 @ 12th Mar 03:48PM:
Re: Bye bye media centers.
Are you saying you have a working ClearQAM tuner? I bought a Pinnacle PCTV HD Card and it only works for OTA. ClearQAM doesn't seem to be supported in media center.
Also if you have to rent a cable box, that isn't really a valid solution. Plus I doubt they are going to keep the basic channels unencrypted thus forcing you to rent a box.
reply
BF69 @ 12th Mar 03:49PM:
Re: Why should anyone
said by Eat Me :
Thankfully there aren't any.
then why in the hell did you bring it up?
reply
DHRacer @ 12th Mar 04:07PM:
Stop selling basic cause no one buys it
And the stupidly high costs they charge for it, I can't see why anyone keeps it. I just dropped my analog basic + expanded to just basic. I'd kill the Basic too if the rest of the household didn't mind watching the one DirecTV-based TV I have.
--
"No one will believe you solved this problem in one day! We've been working on it for months. Now, go act busy for a few weeks and I'll let you know when it's time to tell them." (R&D Supervisor, Minnesota Mining & Manufacturing /3M Corp.)
reply
anon @ 12th Mar 04:08PM:
the problem
the whole problem is they encrypt the digital "family" channels so they don't have to use traps to prevent a basic subscriber from getting "family channels" for free, the BIG problem with that is you can't buy the box the cable co's use for that, any other solution is more expensive, like TIVO or getting a TV with a cable card slot, both of these require you to RENT a cable card, and TIVO requires a subscription for every box. there's a HUGE price increase involved here when you have say, 6 TV's.. now, if they continued using traps for "family channels" then they DON'T have to scramble those channels.. but NO! they like the extra money they get from the box rentals..
reply
patcat88 @ 12th Mar 04:10PM:
Re: Why should anyone
said by BF69 :said by Eat Me :
Thankfully there aren't any.
then why in the hell did you bring it up?
To Troll my dear.
reply
patcat88 @ 12th Mar 04:11PM:
Re: Good
said by djrobx :
People who don't want to rent the boxes have nowhere to go. The alternatives, satellite and telco TV, also require some sort of set top.
So whatever happened to clear QAM?
reply
anon @ 12th Mar 04:16PM:
another thing
i forgot to mention the reason so many subscribers are renting digital boxes now is they were FORCED to do that.. either they did that or they don't get the most watched channels cablevision moved to encrypted digital.. as soon as they did that, people were lined up for blocks trying to get digital boxes.. this was NOT voluntary... ALSO, even though you still pay for those channels they moved, you can't get them without THEIR box OR rent a cable card and use it on a device that accepts it for every TV you want to watch..
reply
patcat88 @ 12th Mar 04:19PM:
Re: Digital
said by contsole :
Didn't Manhattan cable switch to 100% digital years ago to reduce rampant cable theft that's impossible to police in high rises?
No. All analog except OTA is encrypted. No such thing as plugging in a TV for "expanded basic" service. Where do people get these crazy ideas that you can plug in a dozen TVs for free? Its cable theft unless you pay for an outlet fee.
reply
tiger72 @ 12th Mar 04:33PM:
Re: Good news
said by RARPSL :said by ITGuy72 :
Bring on more HD channels.
Along with their SD Counterparts. Unless you have a HD STB/DVR having CV provide NetworkX-HD is of no use to you unless they also carry NetworkX-SD. For example, if they were to offer BBC-America (which is one of the most requested non-carried channels) only as BBC-AmericaHD they are not really offering it without also carrying BBC-America-SD.
They should simply offer the HD version to ALL subs. Save on the bandwidth, and simplify the channel listings.
--
"What makes us omniscient? Have we a record of omniscience? ...If we can't persuade nations with comparable values of the merit of our cause, we'd better reexamine our reasoning."
-United States Secretary of Defense (1961-1968) Robert S. McNamara
reply
elray @ 12th Mar 04:33PM:
Re: Good for them!
said by BF69 :
Ok first of all MOST peole don't have FiOS as an option. And frankly if you do and you still have cable then you're kind of stupid ayways.
Most people's other choice is satelite which also requires you to have a box for each TV...
No, it doesn't.
Dish only requires 1 box per two sets. For a four-set household, $5 for the second dual-tuner box versus $24 for three additional boxes gives Dish a $19/month advantage over our local Time Warner's $8/box charge. Factor in the cable franchise fee and city taxes, and satellite typically comes in first - if, of course, you can get it. Not all of us are so privileged.
reply
wmcbrine @ 12th Mar 06:13PM:
Re: FIOS Has Been Digital for over a year.
The other defense might be that Fios never sold "analog expanded basic" -- since their analog channels never went beyond the limited basic level -- so they can't be the first to stop selling it.
--
09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0
reply
baineschile @ 12th Mar 06:15PM:
Re: QAM
Yes, new TVs sold after 2007 have QAM tuners.
Would you like to estimate how many TVs there are hooked in to all cable systems that were purchased BEFORE that.
Remember, when cable companies chalk up a customer as a "digital customer" all it means is that they have one digital box in their house. I have 3tvs; 2 have Digital/HD/Dvrs, but my TV in the gues bedroom is still analog only.
reply
wmcbrine @ 12th Mar 06:16PM:
Re: QAM tuner
said by xirian :
The digital version of anything outside of broadcast basic is encrypted.
That's what CableCards are for.
--
09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0
reply
MisterBill @ 12th Mar 06:16PM:
Re: Good for them!
said by Youngjm :
91% have embraced digital service but are they using digital on all the sets in the home? I know I have digital service but at least 3 sets still rely on analog signals.
I was just going to post this. They use these numbers all the time to make it seem like they have very few analog customers but the fact is that many homes still do not have STB on all of their TV's and ARE analog customers. I have 3 TV's and a ReplyTV but only 2 STB.
reply
anon @ 12th Mar 06:20PM:
Cable can't quit
Cable must carry analog until 2012 before they can abandon it for good.
reply
Lazlow @ 12th Mar 06:23PM:
Re: QAM
Sure analog tv will need a converter box of some sort and you can buy QAM converters for your analog TV, but right now it would be pointless. Most cable companies are putting virtually no signals out in Clear QAM anyway, far fewer channels than they used to send out in analog. My point was that there is no reason that they should not maintain the same number of channels on clear QAM that they used to have on analog.
The reasons for dropping analog are obvious and are really a separate discussion from what I am talking about, clear QAM.
reply
Joe12345678 @ 12th Mar 06:38PM:
They need to drop the free HD! as that is not free as you ne
They need to drop the free HD! as that is not free as you need to rent the box.
Also with a CableCARD you can't get the out-of-market sports packs.
NHL Network HD (channel 791)
Some Premium HD Movie Channels
»optimum.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/opt···opview=1
also $46.95 to install + The monthly fee for each CableCARD is $2.00
Additional Outlet Premium Service Fee may apply on top that as well.
not only that they plan SDV as well.
reply
xirian @ 12th Mar 07:19PM:
Re: Digital
No, it is not. Cable theft is theft of services you haven't paid for. You are paying for the cable in this case.
reply
Bit @ 12th Mar 10:04PM:
Re: Good news
If they're not forcing people to migrate, they can't kill off the analog to make room for more HD channels. All this does is force new buyers to buy more expensive digital tiers. Stop selling to new customers and discontinuing analog channels for everyone are two different things.
reply
dvd536 @ 12th Mar 10:51PM:
Ohhhhhh
Theres MONEY in them thar' set top boxie thingies
"Cha-Ching! hear those cash registers RING!"
--
When I gez aju zavateh na nalechoo more new yonooz tonigh molinigh - Ken Lee
reply
dvd536 @ 12th Mar 10:53PM:
Re: Why should anyone
said by Gres7 :
pay (even $15 + Box/remote rental) if you could get it free off air?
I have build my own UHF antenna in 1 hour (as per uhfhdtvantenna.blogspot.com ) put it on my attic and picture is just as good or maybe even better.
theres NO SUCH THING as a HD antenna despite what anyone / company says!
--
When I gez aju zavateh na nalechoo more new yonooz tonigh molinigh - Ken Lee
reply
dvd536 @ 12th Mar 10:57PM:
Re: QAM tuner
said by ggmorton :
As long as the cable companies broadcast it in the clear, then it will work.
this *is* cablevision we're talking about. the same CV that not only charges for the box but the REMOTE too!
highly unlikely they'll broadcast it unencrypted.
--
When I gez aju zavateh na nalechoo more new yonooz tonigh molinigh - Ken Lee
reply
sailor @ 12th Mar 11:08PM:
Re: Why should anyone
This is to much :D
Member BF 69
Allow me to introduce you to
Member Eat Me
reply
RARPSL @ 13th Mar 01:33AM:
Re: Good news
said by tiger72 :said by RARPSL :said by ITGuy72 :
Bring on more HD channels.
Along with their SD Counterparts. Unless you have a HD STB/DVR having CV provide NetworkX-HD is of no use to you unless they also carry NetworkX-SD. For example, if they were to offer BBC-America (which is one of the most requested non-carried channels) only as BBC-AmericaHD they are not really offering it without also carrying BBC-America-SD.
They should simply offer the HD version to ALL subs. Save on the bandwidth, and simplify the channel listings.
They do now BUT you need a HD STB/DVR to view them. I suppose that they can push an update to the SD STBs/DVRs so they can view the 7xx channels in SD (as would occur if you have a HD box connected to a SD TV). I have a SD DVR and while I could swap it for a HD DVR to get access to the HDs, I'd need to clean out my old recordings that I have not yet viewed as well as recreate my recording schedule.
reply
DannyZ @ 13th Mar 02:06AM:
Re: Good for them!
waitaminute.
You basically called me a luddite and told me I needed to get "into the 21st century" because I have analog cable and have no need for digital. You said the change-over is inevitable and to deal with it.
Now, you are defending those who wish to stay with analog. Why the change of heart?
--
Out the 10BaseT, through the modem, down the co-ax, over the fiber, across the backhaul, past the edge router, off the network...nothing but net
reply
BF69 @ 13th Mar 07:11AM:
Re: Why should anyone
said by dvd536 :said by Gres7 :
pay (even $15 + Box/remote rental) if you could get it free off air?
I have build my own UHF antenna in 1 hour (as per uhfhdtvantenna.blogspot.com ) put it on my attic and picture is just as good or maybe even better.
theres NO SUCH THING as a HD antenna despite what anyone / company says!
he said he built his own UHF antenna. it works with HD because most digital channels are UHF. and the design works.
reply
N10Cities @ 13th Mar 08:06AM:
Time to cut it off....
Once Cox deletes their analog channels, I will go ahead and do something I have been pondering for awhile now anyways....cut the service off entirely.....
I get my Internet from my ILEC (20/2 over FTTH connection) and can get most of the shows we watch on cable online as well (plus ESPN360). Got a Netflix account and we're set. I showed the missus the other day how all our favorite shows are available online and she was like, pffftt, what do we need cable for? Would save us $65/month.
reply
tiger72 @ 13th Mar 10:30AM:
Re: Good news
said by RARPSL :
They do now BUT you need a HD STB/DVR to view them. I suppose that they can push an update to the SD STBs/DVRs so they can view the 7xx channels in SD (as would occur if you have a HD box connected to a SD TV). I have a SD DVR and while I could swap it for a HD DVR to get access to the HDs, I'd need to clean out my old recordings that I have not yet viewed as well as recreate my recording schedule.
I guess I never understood why Cable companies spend so much money dividing the services and increasing their costs substantially. If they were smart, they'd use exclusively use HD-capable receivers and DVRs, and when an HD version of a channel comes out, simply replace the SD version instead of taking up more bandwidth and adding a second channel to the lineup. People with SD tv's can still use HD receivers and watch HD-content downrezzed, so it's not a compatibility issue. And cable companies would only need to have 2 or 3 devices to support instead of 5 or 6 (usually 1 receiver and 2 DVRs for HD and SD a piece).
It seems like it costs so much to do it the way they're doing (even if it is all-digital now).
--
"What makes us omniscient? Have we a record of omniscience? ...If we can't persuade nations with comparable values of the merit of our cause, we'd better reexamine our reasoning."
-United States Secretary of Defense (1961-1968) Robert S. McNamara
reply
RARPSL @ 13th Mar 03:04PM:
Re: Good news
said by tiger72 :
I guess I never understood why Cable companies spend so much money dividing the services and increasing their costs substantially. If they were smart, they'd use exclusively use HD-capable receivers and DVRs, and when an HD version of a channel comes out, simply replace the SD version instead of taking up more bandwidth and adding a second channel to the lineup. People with SD tv's can still use HD receivers and watch HD-content downrezzed, so it's not a compatibility issue.
There is a problem with not carrying both the SD and HD feeds in some cases. There are some channels that have a separate line-up for their HD and SD feeds (not just a HD version of what is on the SD feed). There is also the case where at times the SD and HD feeds have different shows. This occurred recently when the HD and SD feed on a sports channel had different games and there were complaints due to the Cable System (I think it was CV) automatically showed the HD feed even if you tuned to the SD channel.
reply
tiger72 @ 13th Mar 03:39PM:
Re: Good news
said by RARPSL :said by tiger72 :
I guess I never understood why Cable companies spend so much money dividing the services and increasing their costs substantially. If they were smart, they'd use exclusively use HD-capable receivers and DVRs, and when an HD version of a channel comes out, simply replace the SD version instead of taking up more bandwidth and adding a second channel to the lineup. People with SD tv's can still use HD receivers and watch HD-content downrezzed, so it's not a compatibility issue.
There is a problem with not carrying both the SD and HD feeds in some cases. There are some channels that have a separate line-up for their HD and SD feeds (not just a HD version of what is on the SD feed). There is also the case where at times the SD and HD feeds have different shows. This occurred recently when the HD and SD feed on a sports channel had different games and there were complaints due to the Cable System (I think it was CV) automatically showed the HD feed even if you tuned to the SD channel.
In the rare cases that the HD feed doesn't show what's on the SD feed, channels like Discovery HD (ie HDTheater) would obviously stay as separate channels. But that is very much an exception to the rule that TNT, FX, Fox, NBC, ABC, FNS, CNN, etc.. are all simply simulcasting their stations in 4:3 protected HD.
--
"What makes us omniscient? Have we a record of omniscience? ...If we can't persuade nations with comparable values of the merit of our cause, we'd better reexamine our reasoning."
-United States Secretary of Defense (1961-1968) Robert S. McNamara
reply
anon @ 14th Mar 11:34AM:
Re: They need to drop the free HD! as that is not free as you ne
said by Joe12345678 :They need to drop the free HD! as that is not free as you need to rent the box.
Also with a CableCARD you can't get the out-of-market sports packs.
NHL Network HD (channel 791)
Some Premium HD Movie Channels
»
optimum.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/opt···opview=1also $46.95 to install + The monthly fee for each CableCARD is $2.00
Additional Outlet Premium Service Fee may apply on top that as well.
not only that they plan SDV as well.
the zinger is you need something to put the cablecard INTO!!..
reply
Steve Mehs @ 14th Mar 09:44PM:
Re: FIOS Has Been Digital for over a year.
Fios TV is a cable service in the eyes of the FCC. Verizon is just a crappy overglorified cable company. I wouldn't get Verizon's shitty fiber service if it was offered in my area that's for sure.
reply
tmc8080 @ 15th Mar 05:31AM:
$10 vs $1
Instead of selling a broadcast basic set of channels+music (30+30 audio feeds) for $10... just sell the same package + music in the qam free & clear to businesses who have voice/internet for $1 more/month.
The more businesses in the community promote cablevision in the NY Metro area, the more likely residential customers will have it @ home. How many businesses in NY Metro promote Verizon FIOS TV? Not many.
reply
Dude111 @ 15th Mar 12:28PM:
Stupid!
What about customers that DONT WANT TO UPGRADE or dont have the $$$ to??
Very stupid move,they should always have an ANALOG PACKAGE!!
reply
anon @ 15th Mar 08:26PM:
Re: Stupid!
they figure everyone can afford this, over 91% have it, and they don't care about the rest, what they don't mention is those that DO have it only have 1 or 2 boxes, and if they drop analog, EVERY t.v. will have to have a box, as those channels are scrambled, THEN will come the backlash, as their rates can double. figure 6 t.v.s at 6.95 each..
reply
bsoft @ 15th Mar 11:34PM:
Re: Good news
Discovery HD is not HD Theater. Discovery HD is an HD simulcast of Discovery Channel, whereas HD Theater is its own thing.
What pisses me off is that Comcast can't tell the difference. We have HD Theater, TLC HD, and Science Channel HD, but no Discovery HD. Which means no HD MythBusters.
reply
Dude111 @ 16th Mar 04:34AM:
Re: Stupid!
Yes in the end its all about extracting the most $$$ possible and its sad.... (They dont care about quality anymore)
reply
Bobcat @ 16th Mar 08:36AM:
Higher price
Cablevision isn't doing this to provide better service. They're doing it because they can charge more money by forcing people to pay $6.75 per month per box! Scumbags.
EDIT: Just remembered that they charge an additional $10.95 per month "iO Package" just for the privilege of using digital boxes. Scumbags.
--
It's nice to be important, but it's more important to be nice.
reply
Bobcat @ 16th Mar 08:50AM:
Re: Good
said by dslwanter :
I think the only problem they may run into is people not wanting to pay for a box, unless of course they're going to give it for free with the service.
Cablevision? Give it for free? HA, HA, HA, HA, HA, HA, HA!!
--
It's nice to be important, but it's more important to be nice.
reply
tiger72 @ 16th Mar 11:41AM:
Re: Good news
said by bsoft :
Discovery HD is not HD Theater. Discovery HD is an HD simulcast of Discovery Channel, whereas HD Theater is its own thing.
What pisses me off is that Comcast can't tell the difference. We have HD Theater, TLC HD, and Science Channel HD, but no Discovery HD. Which means no HD MythBusters.
I meant the "old" DiscoveryHD before it was rebranded as HDTheater. My bad.
--
"What makes us omniscient? Have we a record of omniscience? ...If we can't persuade nations with comparable values of the merit of our cause, we'd better reexamine our reasoning."
-United States Secretary of Defense (1961-1968) Robert S. McNamara
reply
apollo80 @ 16th Mar 03:45PM:
Re: FIOS Has Been Digital for over a year.
said by Steve Mehs :
Fios TV is a cable service in the eyes of the FCC. Verizon is just a crappy overglorified cable company. I wouldn't get Verizon's shitty fiber service if it was offered in my area that's for sure.
Fine, I'll take YOUR FiOS service. I've been waiting to dump Comcast for some time.
Finally got one of those little doorknob notices that FiOS is being installed in the general area.
So, when Verizon comes knocking on my door to sell FiOS, I'll say to the salesmen, "Where the @%#@%# have you been???!!!"
reply
Thank you for using lo-fi dslreports.com - report bugs
© 99-2009 silver matrix LLC
