Comcast BitTorrent Efforts Violating State Laws? - Forged RST packets likened to pretexting and impersonation...
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Comcast BitTorrent Efforts Violating State Laws?
Forged RST packets likened to pretexting and impersonation...
(old news - 06:30PM Tuesday Sep 04 2007)
tags: legal · Fileswapping · business · networking · Comcast
Tipped by nasadude
When we started talking about Comcast's efforts to limit BitTorrent seeding by forging TCP Reset (RST) packets, some users were angry that Comcast was "violating the legitimacy" of the TCP protocol. Others wondered if the activity constituted pretexting, as the forged RST packet Comcast's gear is sending pretends to be from the host at the end of the BitTorrent connection. CNET (via Slashdot) wonders if this activity potentially violates several State laws (specifically New York, Connecticut and Alabama): "Many states make it illegal to impersonate others. New York, a state notorious for its aggressive pro-consumer office of the Attorney General, makes it a crime for someone to "[impersonate] another and [do] an act in such assumed character with intent to obtain a benefit or to injure or defraud another." (See: NY Sec. 190.25: Criminal impersonation in the second degree). I do not believe that it would be too difficult to prove that Comcast obtains a benefit by impersonating others to eliminate or reduce BitTorrent traffic. Less torrent data flowing over their network will lead to an overall reduction in their bandwidth bill, and thus a huge cost savings." While a good lawyer could argue that firetrucks are sentient and are planning a world takeover, the chance of Comcast facing any legal trouble for their traffic shaping is marginal at best, given Comcast's goal is to protect the integrity of their network, not defraud customers.
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- Comcast Still Fighting FCC Throttling Sanction
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ztmike @ 4th Sep 06:42PM:
Comcrap
Of course Comcast could win in a court battle..They have a team of lawyers on their side 24/7 that are some of the highest paid in the country. Some regular old Joe is NOT going to win against that.
I'm just glad this "Limiting bitorrent" hasn't hit me yet in NW Indiana. Comcast is probably testing this and then implenting it into their network nation-wide if it works..
I got to ask ..WHEN IS COMCAST GOING TO UP THEIR SPEEDS? arghh
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en102 @ 4th Sep 06:43PM:
Just be honest with the public/your customers.
While Comcast may be denying traffic shaping, and is 'protecting' its network from BitTorrent (or just protecting in general, in a manner in which BitTorrent traffic is being affected). Just come clean. Is BitTorrent traffic being 'altered' in any way/shape/form vs. other traffic ?
--
Canada = Hollywood North
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JamesPC @ 4th Sep 06:48PM:
word
Get a new ISP, if you dont have any other options. BUMMER!
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ninjatutle @ 4th Sep 06:55PM:
.
The BT users are likely breaking the law so its a no win situation.
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exocet_cm @ 4th Sep 06:57PM:
That is correct comrad
This can all foiled by a VPN connection mind you :o
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scooterr50 @ 4th Sep 07:09PM:
linch mob reporters?
whats up with all the comcast bashing latley? seems like every day i see some news about them thats berateing. there not that bad people. i think we have a linch mob of news reporters. you want to talk about crap, then lets talk about adelphia (the worlds most worst ISP provider). thank god there no longer in buisness.
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anon @ 4th Sep 07:11PM:
Comcast nearly dead today in Pacific NW
It appears that Comcast is having issues with their service in the Pacific NW. Many users have been left in the dark unable to access email and other services.
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swhx7 @ 4th Sep 07:20PM:
Re: Comcrap
I agree they would win in court, but I think it is "defauding the customers" in some sense. If Comcast deliberately forges a packet, and the customer relies on that packet to be genuine, and suffers disadvantage because it's not, there are the legal elements are deception, intent to deceive, reliance, and harm. It's on such a micro-scale that it would never be placed under the same legal rule as selling bogus merchandise, but in principle it is odious.
To the editorialist above: Is it OK for an individual to go into a situation for some other purpose - say, into a business to install a router - and start falsifying traffic? Maybe it benefits some third party; does that make it OK? If not, then why is it OK for a corporation to do the same?
The larger issue is that if it comes to be considered acceptable for ISPs to falsify customers' internet traffic on a small scale, it opens the door to legalized DNS poisoning, stealth censorship of news reports, and other abuses.
Edited to clarify.
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Omega @ 4th Sep 07:25PM:
Re: .
said by ninjatutle :
The BT users are likely breaking the law so its a no win situation.
bittorrent can be used for legal purposes.
Cars can be used to break the law.
Xerox machines can be used to break the law
You name something legal, it can be used to break the law. Bittorrent shouldn't be singled out because of this.
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tileguy @ 4th Sep 07:27PM:
Re: That is correct comrad
As I'm still learning........ What is a VPN connection and how would I go about setting one up?
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exocet_cm @ 4th Sep 07:31PM:
Re: That is correct comrad
said by tileguy :
As I'm still learning........ What is a VPN connection and how would I go about setting one up?
»en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VPN
quote:
A virtual private network (VPN) is a communications network tunneled through another network, and dedicated for a specific network. One common application is secure communications through the public Internet, but a VPN need not have explicit security features, such as authentication or content encryption. VPNs, for example, can be used to separate the traffic of different user communities over an underlying network with strong security features.
But for a more simpler approach, and I haven't done much research into it, I think this could be accomplished with TOR »tor.eff.org/
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exocet_cm @ 4th Sep 07:32PM:
Re: linch mob reporters?
said by scooterr50 :
whats up with all the comcast bashing latley? seems like every day i see some news about them thats berateing. there not that bad people. i think we have a linch mob of news reporters. you want to talk about crap, then lets talk about adelphia (the worlds most worst ISP provider). thank god there no longer in buisness.
It would be one thing if the reporters were making up the news, it is another if it is ACTUALLY happening, as such the reporters are reporting it due to the fact that it is Broadband related...
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funchords @ 4th Sep 07:35PM:
Could it happen? Sure it could!
The idea of David vs. Goliath is probably not one that we need to consider. On this scale, it would likely be the state AG that brings a case -- or a team of lawyers working on a class-action case.
That the New York law was cited is very interesting, as New York is very prone to take on cases of consumer abuse by corporations.
This is a great piece of clear thinking:
said by swhx7 :
However, the blurb-writer's claim that the practice is not "defauding the customers" is questionable.
The legal elements are deception, intent to deceive, reliance, and harm.
If Comcast deliberately forges a packet, and the customer relies on that packet to be genuine, and suffers disadvantage because it's not, that's fraud.
--
Robb Topolski -= funchords.com =- Hillsboro, Oregon USA
Are you affected by Comcast's RST forging? How to test it! -or- Read my original report.
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CableConvert @ 4th Sep 07:37PM:
Re: Comcrap
Except...the author is saying that States could go after Comcast...aka New Yorks AG.
They send a packet that tells you its from the remote host you are trying to connect with that says "no thanks...please terminate" if thats not fraud...what is? They can drop the packet...thats fine...but I think fraud is over the line IMHO
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Combat Chuck @ 4th Sep 07:40PM:
Go ahead people.
Keep pushing the issue with silly lawyer games, just don't bitch when you get your way and they start totally blocking BT.
--
Mooooooo!!!
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CableConvert @ 4th Sep 07:42PM:
Re: Go ahead people.
blocking is easier to circumvent ;)
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anon @ 4th Sep 08:06PM:
Re: Could it happen? Sure it could!
Comcast could flat out block any and all seeding from their network as they specifically state end users cannot run servers. Mail server, http server, ftp server, p2p server makes no difference at all.
Of course, if you decide to sue comcast, please make sure you are not one of the few people out there download illegal / copyrighted content. It would not be very beneficial to the case if Comcast stood up and showed a list of hundreds of movies / songs that people were trying to access on your server that is on their network against the ToS anyway.
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scooterr50 @ 4th Sep 07:45PM:
Re: linch mob reporters?
yes it is broadband related but have you been keeping up with the past news posts? i think not. those posts speak for there self. related or not, it sounds like there out to berate comcast period.
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Combat Chuck @ 4th Sep 07:47PM:
Re: Go ahead people.
said by CableConvert :
blocking is easier to circumvent ;)
Wanna bet on that? If they can watch a particular connection, determine that it's bt, and then go to the trouble of forging a packet, you don't think they can just skip the forging part and flat out drop the packets.
--
Mooooooo!!!
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TScheisskopf @ 4th Sep 07:48PM:
Re: linch mob reporters?
What you call "Comcast Bashing" is, in fact, a quaint old thing once called "The News". The evidence is strong that Comcast, without a policy in place that specifically states, to customers, that Bittorrent traffic is not allowed on their network, seems to be degrading services arbitrarily.
Now, what are they going to say they are doing? "Defending their network". If they are, in fact, degrading Bittorrent traffic in truth, then why? Overselling and a lack of interest in capital improvement in network capacity, from the nodes on up.
So, it's not a "linch" mob. It's legitimate news. I know that if my provider might be playing with QoS and deep packet inspection, I would want to know that, because I am paying for this service and I would want to know what my dollars, hard-earned as they are, are buying me.
You might want to consider such an attitude yourself. No business is your friend. All the relationship consists of is taking your money and giving you a product or service. Anything else is wishful thinking and credulousness, because any business will toss you over the side in a New York Second, if it benefits them.
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15063053 @ 4th Sep 07:49PM:
Re: Comcrap
said by ztmike :
I got to ask ..WHEN IS COMCAST GOING TO UP THEIR SPEEDS? arghh
Aren't you happy with your Powerboost? I'll take my steady FiOS 15/2 Mbps anyday over Comcrap service.
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TScheisskopf @ 4th Sep 07:52PM:
Re: Could it happen? Sure it could!
It might also be added that The Attorney General's Office of The State of New York has a long and proud history of aggressive protection of consumer rights and going to the mattresses for those protections.
If I were Comcast, I would pay heed to the possibilities. They could run their string out on this one, and that could lead to closer examination of their other business practices.
They may not like that. It's rather expensive.
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newview @ 4th Sep 07:56PM:
Re: linch mob reporters?
said by scooterr50 :
whats up with all the comcast bashing latley?
Because Comcast is soooo damn sneaky?
Years ago when they got caught running transparent proxies they denied it . . . now they get caught forging TCP packets to limit (possibly legitimate) BitTorrent traffic, they once again deny it. These "knee-jerk" deny-it / lie-about-it Comcast reactions to provable allegations are EXACTLY what causes many subscribers to doubt ANYTHING Comcast says.
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stomp357 @ 4th Sep 07:59PM:
Re: .
said by ninjatutle :
The BT users are likely breaking the law so its a no win situation.
Your computer can be used to break the law, so do the right thing, and stop using it. :uhh:
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funchords @ 4th Sep 08:05PM:
Re: Could it happen? Sure it could!
More clear thinking, this from SlashDot:
quote:
"it's legal to block traffic on your network"
by roystgnr (4015) on Tuesday September 04, @06:40PM (#20471247)
It shouldn't be. These companies are advertising access to the internet, there are decades old standards that describe how the internet is supposed to work, and "dropping packets because an router owner might not like the contents" isn't in any of the RFCs. There's a reason why Prodigy, AOL, MSN, Compuserve, and all the old proprietary networks had to become ISPs or become bankrupt, and that's because consumers demanded unrestricted networks. Giving us restricted networks but just calling them "internet access" is fraud.
--
Robb Topolski -= funchords.com =- Hillsboro, Oregon USA
Are you affected by Comcast's RST forging? How to test it! -or- Read my original report.
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TKJunkMail @ 4th Sep 08:08PM:
Re: linch mob reporters?
said by TScheisskopf :
No business is your friend. All the relationship consists of is taking your money and giving you a product or service. Anything else is wishful thinking and credulousness, because any business will toss you over the side in a New York Second, if it benefits them.
BBR is a business.
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funchords @ 4th Sep 08:20PM:
Re: Could it happen? Sure it could!
More clear thinking:
http://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=287993&cid=20472375
Comcast's use of the Sandvine devices to prohibit its clients point-to-point Internet traffic is in violation of Internet standards as well as Federal law. Comcast's Terms of Service ("ToS") do not trump Federal Law. Further, Comcast's methods for blocking this traffic negate its claim that it offers "an Internet connection." Click HERE to continue...
--
Robb Topolski -= funchords.com =- Hillsboro, Oregon USA
Are you affected by Comcast's RST forging? How to test it! -or- Read my original report.
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LeftOfSanity @ 4th Sep 08:21PM:
Re: Comcrap
said by 15063053 :said by ztmike :
I got to ask ..WHEN IS COMCAST GOING TO UP THEIR SPEEDS? arghh
Aren't you happy with your Powerboost? I'll take my steady FiOS 15/2 Mbps anyday over Comcrap service.
Yea because Verizon is 100% legit and for the customer. In case you didn't know, FioS is not available to everyone.
"Comcrap" - What an original play on words. Wish I thought of that. :uhh:
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funchords @ 4th Sep 08:21PM:
Re: Could it happen? Sure it could!
said by IpEverywhere :
Comcast could flat out block any and all seeding from their network as they specifically state end users cannot run servers. Mail server, http server, ftp server, p2p server makes no difference at all.
You are misinformed.
--
Robb Topolski -= funchords.com =- Hillsboro, Oregon USA
Are you affected by Comcast's RST forging? How to test it! -or- Read my original report.
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anon @ 4th Sep 08:26PM:
Laws
Comcast's goal is to defraud customers.
Sorry eggheads, but the law is the law no matter how many suits are on the other side.
Unless you are saying money subverts justice.
Never head of OJ that...
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funchords @ 4th Sep 08:29PM:
Re: Go ahead people.
said by Combat Chuck :
they can just skip the forging part and flat out drop the packets.
Then they'd still have to deal with retransmissions, exacerbating the bandwidth problem that they're trying to tame.
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LeftOfSanity @ 4th Sep 08:36PM:
Re: Go ahead people.
said by Combat Chuck :said by CableConvert :
blocking is easier to circumvent ;)
Wanna bet on that? If they can watch a particular connection, determine that it's bt, and then go to the trouble of forging a packet, you don't think they can just skip the forging part and flat out drop the packets.
Agreed. I'd like to see most of these people run a network of Comcast's size. Its all good to say "just increase the bandwidth" but lets remember it is a business. Its not a not-for-profit organization. Just like all business there is red tape, and that can delay things.
And really, I know alot of people who use bittorrent and if i asked them what percentage do they use it for,,,yea they are going to say they use it for some legal stuff, but they use it mainly for TV shows,movies,games etc. Not to discredit anyone..and maybe there is people who use it strictly for *nix distro's, but c'mon, your really gonna say the majority of its use is legal?
Personally its too slow for me. I actually pony up the dough and use newsgroups. For legal stuff of course ;)
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TScheisskopf @ 4th Sep 08:39PM:
Re: linch mob reporters?
A stunning insight.
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LeftOfSanity @ 4th Sep 08:40PM:
Re: Laws
said by comcaster :
Comcast's goal is to defraud customers.
Sorry eggheads, but the law is the law no matter how many suits are on the other side.
Unless you are saying money subverts justice.
Never head of OJ that...
Riiight. Im sure the powers of Comcast sat in a secluded room and concocted a plan to defraud its customers.
And i bet you would be the type to try and collect money from Comcast because they defrauded your packets.
Typical thinking...how can i make'um me some easy money fer nuttin. :uhh:
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ninjatutle @ 4th Sep 08:41PM:
Re: .
Illegally downloading movies and tv shows just doesnt happen I guess.
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Combat Chuck @ 4th Sep 08:50PM:
Re: Go ahead people.
said by funchords :
Then they'd still have to deal with retransmissions, exacerbating the bandwidth problem that they're trying to tame.
Sorry but a couple retransmissions aren't going to make up a significant amount of bandwidth compared to what a properly running BT client is going to cause. Not to mention the number of people who will close the client after it sits for a couple hours pulling nothing.
--
Mooooooo!!!
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Necronomikro @ 4th Sep 08:53PM:
Re: That is correct comrad
said by exocet_cm :said by tileguy :
As I'm still learning........ What is a VPN connection and how would I go about setting one up?
»
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VPN quote:
A virtual private network (VPN) is a communications network tunneled through another network, and dedicated for a specific network. One common application is secure communications through the public Internet, but a VPN need not have explicit security features, such as authentication or content encryption. VPNs, for example, can be used to separate the traffic of different user communities over an underlying network with strong security features.
But for a more simpler approach, and I haven't done much research into it, I think this could be accomplished with TOR »
tor.eff.org/ VPN and TOR are not efficient solutions to this: the problem is that they are slowing your connections down, effectively. TOR and VPN are going to be even slower.
Dunno if encryption already available helps this any, any input there?
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BryanOnRR @ 4th Sep 08:55PM:
Re: linch mob reporters?
Adelphia is just Time Warner, so its Roadrunner Internet which is not bad.
Down with comcast
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prestonlewis @ 4th Sep 08:56PM:
No Alternative
In regards to Comcast bashing mentioned previously. Here's why I severely dislike Comcast. First, I have no options. I'm too far from a CO to get DSL and the only wireless ISP in our area cut speeds and increased prices making it worthless. Comcast is at best a mediocre internet connection yet they charge a premium price. I don't mind the 8,000 download speeds but I'm limited to 768 upload speeds (I want more!). Their customer service centers give conflicting answers, advice and you never know which center you'll get: Texas, St. Louis, Winnipeg, Sacramento, etc. Their contract techs are usually not knowledgeable at all and sometimes makes an easy job more difficult.
I know it's easy bashing the big guy but Comcast is a monopoly where I live. It should be regulated by the government instead of being able to charge/do whatever it wants to it's customers since we have little or no choices for alternative services.
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Combat Chuck @ 4th Sep 08:57PM:
Re: Go ahead people.
Don't lump me in with those who are happy about this. I'm not happy but it's not my network. As has been stated the legality of what is being downloaded is a totally separate issue, unless your willing to start banning web browsers since 99% of illegal internet activity starts there.
--
Mooooooo!!!
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KrK @ 4th Sep 08:59PM:
Re: That is correct comrad
... and the opposing Battleship returns fire :D
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BryanOnRR @ 4th Sep 09:00PM:
Thumbs Down
Ban Comcast!
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KrK @ 4th Sep 09:01PM:
Re: .
said by ninjatutle :
Illegally downloading movies and tv shows just doesnt happen I guess.
Recording TV and then fast fowarding thru commercials doesn't happen I guess.
If it does.... Those evil PIRATE TERRORISTS stealing the show! Send the Goose steppers to smash thru the front door and haul 'em away to Gitmo!
:D
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Safemaster @ 4th Sep 09:01PM:
Re: That is correct comrad
Google Relakks
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CableConvert @ 4th Sep 09:02PM:
The Law is the Law
If you guys would take the time to read this:
»it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=···20472375
You would see how Comcast is in clear violation of internet standards as well as FEDERAL law, not to mention STATE laws as well. It wont be long before organizations like the EFF get involved in this...then lets see if Comcast has the stomach for that kind of battle...and the publicity that will come of it...the last thing they want is Congress up their butt
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KrK @ 4th Sep 09:03PM:
Re: linch mob reporters?
said by scooterr50 :
whats up with all the comcast bashing latley?
Patriotic Duty, my son!
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devnuller @ 4th Sep 09:05PM:
Re: No Alternative
said by prestonlewis :
I know it's easy bashing the big guy but Comcast is a monopoly where I live. It should be regulated by the government instead of being able to charge/do whatever it wants to it's customers since we have little or no choices for alternative services.
Just because another company does not want to invest in providing a competitive service (remember Comcast had NO government subsidy to build infrastructure in your town. It was their business risk) should the government regulate that business?
Does this go for all businesses that have little competition? Do you think the government should increase regulation in the free market?
See »en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialism
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KrK @ 4th Sep 09:08PM:
Re: linch mob reporters?
When a company engages in questionable business practices that may or may not be legal, and definitely when they lie about it ,cover it up, and deny it to the public and their customers, which may technically be legal, but is certainly is unethical and misleading, well, you should expect them to get roasted.... After all they are putting themselves up on the firing line.
All Comcast has to do to stop it is 1) Quit doing it, or 2) Admit they do it, which while they would still get slammed for it, it would certainly die down a lot quicker.
--
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KrK @ 4th Sep 09:10PM:
Re: linch mob reporters?
said by TKJunkMail :
BBR is a business.
While true, at least they are open and transparent in how they operate, and allow the voices of dissention to speak their minds. Example, they don't for example, ban you for making such a statement. :D
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ninjatutle @ 4th Sep 09:17PM:
Re: .
FF through commericals aint illegal. I have a 30 sec skip button from my cable tv provider which is also my ISP.
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TKJunkMail @ 4th Sep 09:18PM:
Re: linch mob reporters?
said by KrK :said by TKJunkMail :
BBR is a business.
While true, at least they are open and transparent in how they operate, and allow the voices of dissention to speak their minds. Example, they don't for example, ban you for making such a statement. :D
And I've knocked Comcast and I am still their customer.
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devnuller @ 4th Sep 09:21PM:
Re: The Law is the Law
If the action that Comcast (and believe it or not, many broadband providers) is taking is to enforce its ToS by blocking seeding (aka file sharing), what will be your lawyer's argument?
"We'll your honor... my client was unable to share their Internet connection with Bittorrent.com to sell their movies outside Broadband X's network. Broadband X actually prevented that from happening!!!!
We feel Broadband X should open up all pipes full and let everyone max them 7x24 for 3rd parties to get free and unlimited bandwidth using Broadband X's network externally. The costs are not an issue as Broadband X should actually lose money and the Internet is suppose to be FREE!!!!"
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KrK @ 4th Sep 09:24PM:
Re: linch mob reporters?
said by TKJunkMail :
And I've knocked Comcast and I am still their customer.
True.... as long as you keep paying em. :)
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DufiefData @ 4th Sep 09:25PM:
Re: Just be honest with the public/your customers.
"...the chance of Comcast facing any legal trouble for their traffic shaping is marginal at best, given Comcast's goal is to protect the integrity of their network, not defraud customers."
At least we're being honest about Comcast's overall motives here. We can probably compare this to attempts by a telephone company to prevent customers from connecting to a known fraudulent or criminal telephone number. There are a lot of possible analogies out there, but I'm also not so sure that Comcast won't have to defend this in court at some point..
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Obliteration @ 4th Sep 09:26PM:
Re: Comcrap
said by ztmike :
Of course Comcast could win in a court battle..They have a team of lawyers on their side 24/7 that are some of the highest paid in the country. Some regular old Joe is NOT going to win against that.
I'm just glad this "Limiting bitorrent" hasn't hit me yet in NW Indiana. Comcast is probably testing this and then implenting it into their network nation-wide if it works..
I got to ask ..WHEN IS COMCAST GOING TO UP THEIR SPEEDS? arghh
They can't supply the current speeds as it is. Why do you think they are throttling? :uhh:
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exocet_cm @ 4th Sep 09:26PM:
Re: That is correct comrad
Touche' :D
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devnuller @ 4th Sep 09:32PM:
Re: No Alternative
Verizon has FiOS at the end of my street, but will not come down the street because it is underground service and cost them more / home to run.
Should the government require them to come down my street?
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CableConvert @ 4th Sep 09:42PM:
Re: The Law is the Law
They are not blocking...they are knowingly pretending to be the host you are trying to connect with and terminating the connection...they can block traffic all they want. Thats not illegal. Fraud IS illegal. They are impersonating the person at the other end...thats what I'd say
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devnuller @ 4th Sep 09:50PM:
Re: The Law is the Law
My guess is you are slightly bias. It may be hard to prove in a court of law.
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en102 @ 4th Sep 09:53PM:
Re: .
Recording a movie, TV show or PPV item onto your VCR or DVD-RW is also considered illegal. I.e. MLB, NFL, etc. all have the disclaimer that recording the show without express written consent is illegal. Does this mean all VCR owners are breaking the law ?
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ninjatutle @ 4th Sep 10:04PM:
Re: .
:uhh:
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CableConvert @ 4th Sep 10:12PM:
Re: The Law is the Law
Websters definition of Fraud:
Main Entry: fraud
Pronunciation: 'frod
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English fraude, from Anglo-French, from Latin fraud-, fraus
1 a : DECEIT, TRICKERY; specifically : intentional perversion of truth in order to induce another to part with something of value or to surrender a legal right b : an act of deceiving or misrepresenting : TRICK
2 a : ***a person who is not what he or she pretends to be*** : IMPOSTOR; also : one who defrauds : CHEAT b : one that is not what it seems or is represented to be
By definition its fraud. They are impersonating someone. Pretending to be someone they are not. Look it up. I think it is you who are biased against p2p. Now its P2P...next what if the packets I receive from VOIP provider are spoofed by comcast because I dont use their service...its as legitimate an argument
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S_engineer @ 4th Sep 10:13PM:
Re: Comcrap
some of us don't have much of a choice when it comes to broadband...Cumcrap knows this and they arrogantly fee us to death for Sh*tty service while telling us just how Comcraptic it is....
once I get a decent choice, I'm gone!
--
Burn a tire, but make sure you buy that carbon offset!
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three6ohchri @ 4th Sep 10:18PM:
Re: linch mob reporters?
No, they won't ban you but they will delete your post. Censorship! (I wonder if this will get deleted also...)
Now... regardless of the number of "high powered lawyers" anyone has, if its a clear cut case of the law being broken then no team of lawyers will get you anywhere, expect maybe a killer plea bargain. (do not see: OJ Simpson Trial)
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Dan888 @ 4th Sep 10:23PM:
Re: .
en102
Actually it is not, regardless of the disclaimer on some shows, the surpreme court has ruled in the past it was 100 percent legal to record a show for private use.
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Dan888 @ 4th Sep 10:30PM:
Re: Go ahead people.
If this were to happen, a few other things would happen.
1.) Net Neutrality would receive a huge boost of support
2.) Music downloads, regardless of them being illegal, would be very unhappy, a good number would probably switch
3.)World of Warcraft, which is played by millions, uses P2P for updating, many people would be unhappy that they now have problems playing, and Comcast would lose more customers.
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three6ohchri @ 4th Sep 10:41PM:
Re: No Alternative
my understanding of a monopoly is a company that has exclusivity in a specific service and prevents other companies from offering similar services in a specific area... Let me check Websters.
Main Entry: mo·nop·o·ly
Function: noun
exclusive ownership through legal privilege, command of supply, or concerted action
Well, I was pretty close. Now I don't think that it's Comcast's fault that other companies refuse to invest in your area to provide service to you. Maybe you should start writing letters to Verizon, Qwest, or whatever other telco you have in your area and convince them to spend some money to bring their service to you. Comcast has competion in most areas from multiple telcos and satellite companies, yet they still charge the same price as they do where there isn't any similar competitors (in the same market). I constantly hear people say that Comcast is a monopoly, as if they have something to do with the fact that no one wants to invest in their area.
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KrK @ 4th Sep 10:49PM:
Re: linch mob reporters?
I've never seen BBR delete people's posts for content, even if critical of BBR website.... Only posts that get deleted are vulgar/flame wars or bigtime personal attacks.
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anon @ 4th Sep 11:09PM:
Re: .
said by stomp357 :said by ninjatutle :
The BT users are likely breaking the law so its a no win situation.
Your computer can be used to break the law, so do the right thing, and stop using it. :uhh:
I second that notion! LOL
Let the man dictate to you for what you can do! :p
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rawgerz @ 4th Sep 11:11PM:
Re: That is correct comrad
Its pretty easy, its like a dialup connection.
You setup the server to connect to, password and username and click connect.
All your traffic to that server should be encrypted and your IP is changed to the outside to one that server assigns you.
You cant even do a tracert on your machine and see the hops en route to the VPN server.
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War96 @ 4th Sep 11:17PM:
I want only one thing for cable
COMPETITION. If I had 3 good cable providers able to offer me service, there would not be a service problem. They would be calling me asking if I wanted more bandwidth and rebate. One day they will reap what they sew.
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Slither @ 4th Sep 11:21PM:
OK a question....
I have a question for those who say they are fine with this and this is Comcast's right, how far are you willing to let your ISP go with regulations in the name of 'saving bandwidth'. Would you accept your ISP if it started blocking Youtube because its a bandwidth hog? How about if they blocked all video sharing sites since they can all be called hogs, also they may contain illegal content. Would you still stand by your ISP's choice? My point being if you let them get by with such tactics as these whats to stop them from taking it further, much like a communistic government. What if all ISP's saw that Comcast got away with this and then mirrored throughout? Just some food for thought...
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not2cr8iv @ 4th Sep 11:25PM:
Preserve the integrity of their network???
More like preserve the integrity of their business plan.
--
p.s. I am not a nut.
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HardwareGeek @ 4th Sep 11:32PM:
Re: Comcrap
You guys quote a NY law, but NY law also has something called Clean Hands law.
Which basically means you can't sue someone if you your self are doing something that can be considered illegal.
So you can't sue Comcast for preventing you from downloading some Movie you don't own. No lawyer in their right mind would take your case.
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Diaboyos @ 4th Sep 11:53PM:
Down with Sandvine
I love the last line of the link:
quote:
"Comcast should immediately cease and desist these egregious violations and cease perpetrating targeted Denial of Service attacks on its customers."
Outstanding!
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Combat Chuck @ 5th Sep 12:04AM:
Re: Go ahead people.
said by Dan888 :
1.) Net Neutrality would receive a huge boost of support
No it wouldn't for the same reason you have people posting here that BT is mainly used to commit crimes. Not that the general public has any clue what BT is.
said by Dan888 :
2.) Music downloads, regardless of them being illegal, would be very unhappy, a good number would probably switch
Again, no they wouldn't as they are completely unaffected.
said by Dan888 :
3.)World of Warcraft, which is played by millions, uses P2P for updating, many people would be unhappy that they now have problems playing, and Comcast would lose more customers.
WOW falls back to a standard download and uses pre-loading while you play to download the bulk of future patches; even people who would be affected would likely will not notice.
People can play wannabe lawyer/politician all they want but the bottom line is they don't have a leg to stand on. The general public has no clue what BT is, nor do they care. Someone is going to push the issue, some lawyer will walk off with a mint, we'll all walk away with a straight block and a $5 credit to our bills and the outrage will exist only within the walls of this and similar sites.
--
Mooooooo!!!
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three6ohchri @ 5th Sep 12:04AM:
Re: linch mob reporters?
How can you see something that has already been deleted? :sarc: I have posted a few times where I took a stance that differed from most, it was not vulgar at all, it did not flame or troll, it just pointed out some facts that others didnt agree with and it was gone. I tried repost and it was deleted multiple times... personal experience.
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swhx7 @ 5th Sep 12:07AM:
Re: Comcrap
said by HardwareGeek :
Which basically means you can't sue someone if you your self are doing something that can be considered illegal.
So Comcast couldn't sue customers for sending forged packets, then? I suppose it's prohibited by their terms of service, which would be rather hypocritical.
Also, Comcast doesn't discriminate, they sabotage all BT. A plaintiff would be someone seeding a Linux ISO or some such.
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KrK @ 5th Sep 12:12AM:
Re: linch mob reporters?
said by three6ohchri :
I have posted a few times where I took a stance that differed from most, it was not vulgar at all, it did not flame or troll, it just pointed out some facts that others didnt agree with and it was gone.
Hmmm. Really. I've been in some heated arguments here, often bordering on flame wars, and never had this problem. I've seen some obvious flames and personal attacks disappear after mods review them. You *positive* your posts were not flaming or attacking people personally?
Perhaps you should contact the site mods when this happens to you and see what the problem is. Grain of salt, and all.
--
"Regulatory capitalism is when companies invest in lawyers, lobbyists, and politicians, instead of plant, people, and customer service." - former FCC Chairman William Kennard (A real FCC Chairman, unlike the current Corporate Spokesperson in the job!)
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jjeffeory @ 5th Sep 12:19AM:
Re: No Alternative
No competition because there this thing called a franchise agreement. You've heard of those right?
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jjeffeory @ 5th Sep 12:23AM:
Re: The Law is the Law
Awwwwww. That's such a cute point of view. Interesting slant. Comcast is doing US a favor for taking our money, saying one thing and doing another riiiiight?
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jjeffeory @ 5th Sep 12:24AM:
Re: The Law is the Law
You seem 'slightly' bias too.
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jjeffeory @ 5th Sep 12:25AM:
Re: Preserve the integrity of their network???
Bingo! You hit the nail on the head!
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kitsune361 @ 5th Sep 01:09AM:
Re: Comcrap
There are lots of legitimate uses for bittorrent, in fact it has been incorporated into several patching systems like for Blizzard's World of Warcraft. Can anyone out there in the area affected still patch thier WoW client?
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mrchris @ 5th Sep 01:32AM:
Re: .
said by Omega :said by ninjatutle :
The BT users are likely breaking the law so its a no win situation.
bittorrent can be used for legal purposes.
Cars can be used to break the law.
Xerox machines can be used to break the law
You name something legal, it can be used to break the law. Bittorrent shouldn't be singled out because of this.
You forgot Linux distros. :D
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mrchris @ 5th Sep 01:33AM:
Re: That is correct comrad
Only applies to RIAA labels.
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Jmartz @ 5th Sep 02:02AM:
Re: Comcrap
Cablevision just uncapped their BOOST customers' modems... certainly Comcast, which has speeds that don't even approach Optimum Onlines could handle bit torrent traffic... either that, or they need to invest money in splitting nodes so more bandwidth is available per homes pass to the customer.
Granted, it's the middle of the night, but I was getting what I would consider pretty good speeds earlier this afternoon as well... Comcast should step back and fix their network instead of just putting limits on what customers can and can not do.
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Nightshade @ 5th Sep 02:09AM:
Re: .
Can you provide evidence to your statement or are you just stating an opinion?
--
True Happiness Must Come From Within
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ninjatutle @ 5th Sep 02:46AM:
Re: .
A picture says a.......
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KrK @ 5th Sep 03:01AM:
Re: That is correct comrad
said by mrchris :
Only applies to RIAA labels.
True, you have to read the bottom :)
Fixed it for ya :)
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KrK @ 5th Sep 03:18AM:
Re: .
said by ninjatutle :
FF through commericals aint illegal.
.... Yet.
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three6ohchri @ 5th Sep 04:01AM:
Re: linch mob reporters?
I think I was defending Comcast at the time, but for what its worth I dont remember and it really isnt worth lying over. Anyway, have a nice day.
--
three6ohchris
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three6ohchri @ 5th Sep 04:04AM:
Re: No Alternative
said by jjeffeory :
No competition because there this thing called a franchise agreement. You've heard of those right?
Uhhh... yeah... A franchise agreement may prevent other Cable operators from providing service in an area but it doesnt stop other TV, Internet, or Phone providers from entering an area. Also, most cable franchise agreements don't offer exclusivity but just allow them to service the area while giving a chunk of change to the franchising authority. Sounds like you have heard of them yourself, just don't understand what it means.
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devnuller @ 5th Sep 05:10AM:
Re: OK a question....
said by Slither :
My point being if you let them get by with such tactics as these whats to stop them from taking it further, much like a communistic government.
Comcast is preventing you from violating your ToS on running a file sharing service and allowing 3rd parties to use and profit from it. They have never blocked you from accessing content on the Internet, they are blocking you from file sharing.
If you understand what communism is, you will see what you are asking for (government regulation of free enterprise) is actually closing in on communism vs. trying to prevent it.
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dualsub2006 @ 5th Sep 05:35AM:
Re: OK a question....
P2P responsible for as much as 90% of web traffic. Go read about it right here:
»arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20···fic.html
The difference between Comcast doing this to BT and You Tube is this; people involved in legal activities are actually in a position to make an issue out of this where people involved in illegal activity aren't.
Yes, there are some legit uses of BT. Those that beat that drum know damn good and well that legal BT is spit in the bucket compared to the illegal BT traffic. It's like the bank robber calling the cops because a pick pocket got his wallet on the way out the door.
Video is moving to the Internet. Companies like Apple, Amazon, Wal-Mart and the like SELL downloads that are delivered online. Interrupt BT traffic, who cares. Get in the way of a legal transaction between me and Apple, now THAT is an issue.
I don't use BT so I could care less if it is throttled or not. I may not care about You Tube but I promise you that Google does AND I promise you that they have a large amount of space on their campus set aside for the lawyers that will respond to user complaints of throttling on their web traffic. See the difference? I didn't think you would.
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dualsub2006 @ 5th Sep 05:48AM:
Re: Preserve the integrity of their network???
And why wouldn't they protect their business plan? They are a FOR PROFIT business and they do kind of have a right to make a profit do they not?
This is from the Insight TOS though I am POSITIVE that Comcast has something very similar:
i. undertake or accomplish any unlawful purpose; this includes, but is not limited to, posting, storing, transmitting or disseminating information, data or material which is libelous, obscene, unlawful, threatening, defamatory, or which infringes the intellectual property rights of any person or entity,
Now why on earth would Comcast not take steps to protect their bottom line when a SIGNIFICANT chunk of their bandwidth is in direct violation of TOS?
Piss and moan about legal uses all you want, nearly all of this traffic is illegal and if it makes my legal use of the Internet faster then I am all for it.
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halfband @ 5th Sep 08:22AM:
Be carefull what you wish for
- So comcast stops throttling BT.
- BT usage starts to clog up the upload link on comcasts network.
- Users complain that the entire comcast network is too slow and demand that they "fix" it.
- Comcast increases the bandwidth of the network so BT and all the applications that BT was slowing down will work and passes along the $10 per month upgrade to us.
- Users complain about the price increase because it is supporting a small number of users and the "I don't use BT so I shouldn't have to pay for it" crowd demands that comcast enforce the TOS and stop all BT so the price can go back down.
....
--
Registered Bandwidth Offender #40812
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moonpuppy @ 5th Sep 09:04AM:
Re: OK a question....
said by devnuller :said by Slither :
My point being if you let them get by with such tactics as these whats to stop them from taking it further, much like a communistic government.
Comcast is preventing you from violating your ToS on running a file sharing service and allowing 3rd parties to use and profit from it. They have never blocked you from accessing content on the Internet, they are blocking you from file sharing.
Then why do they allow video conferencing? You are "serving" video for others to see so that is running a server.
IM programs allow you to "upload" files to another person you are chatting with and, therefore, acting like a "server."
Doesn't matter what the content is (benign or illegal) but it you want to take the letter of the TOS, there are many programs that act as servers. :uhh:
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telcolackey @ 5th Sep 09:13AM:
Re: I want only one thing for cable
It is clear that few people understand the economics around COMPETITION. The market cannot support the competition that you demand. TV has competition with DirecTV, Dish, Cableco, now telcoTV, etc. Internet has competition with CableCo, telcoDSL/FiOS,Uverse, etc.
However in some areas it does not YET make business sense to overbuild an environment to compete with the incumbent.
Now look at cell phone carriers... Lots of competition, but why are the prices still so high for a low bandwidth very simple service delivery? My cell phone bill is larger than my data, TV and phone combined. Each of these services has far more infrastructure, content contracts, etc
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telcolackey @ 5th Sep 09:46AM:
Re: OK a question....
There is a BIG difference between you running a short and relatively low bandwidth video conference vs. you letting the entire Internet download all the music, video and software that you have been collecting over the years 7x24. On top of that you are allowing 3rd parties to make money using "your" "free bandwidth" by selling their wares off your PC.
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anon @ 5th Sep 10:30AM:
Re: Comcrap
said by LeftOfSanity :said by 15063053 :said by ztmike :
I got to ask ..WHEN IS COMCAST GOING TO UP THEIR SPEEDS? arghh
Aren't you happy with your Powerboost? I'll take my steady FiOS 15/2 Mbps anyday over Comcrap service.
Yea because Verizon is 100% legit and for the customer. In case you didn't know, FioS is not available to everyone.
"Comcrap" - What an original play on words. Wish I thought of that. :uhh:
You must work for the company or have other interest. There is no perfect company, to me it is just trading one evil corporation for another. In the end every company is out to make money and there is no way to make EVERYONE happy all of the time.
I am happy with my connection and I do not have diluted perceptions about what I am paying for. The price is exactly the same as it is nationally. I also beleive that the price I pay is fully justified, considering it is the same price I paid 4 years ago, and I was getting less than half of the speed at 3 mb. I am now signed up for 8 mb and getting the following from my speed tests.
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JTRockville @ 5th Sep 10:16AM:
Re: Could it happen? Sure it could!
said by funchords :
...or a team of lawyers working on a class-action case...
Did Comcast institute the new "you can't sue us" arbitration policy in NY?
For reference:
»Retain Your Right to Sue Comcast
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moonpuppy @ 5th Sep 10:26AM:
Re: OK a question....
said by telcolackey :
There is a BIG difference between you running a short and relatively low bandwidth video conference vs. you letting the entire Internet download all the music, video and software that you have been collecting over the years 7x24. On top of that you are allowing 3rd parties to make money using "your" "free bandwidth" by selling their wares off your PC.
The TOS makes no distinction.
And since when are BitTorrent files sold? :hmm:
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axus @ 5th Sep 10:26AM:
Re: .
You're finally getting it
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moonpuppy @ 5th Sep 10:29AM:
Re: I want only one thing for cable
said by telcolackey :
Now look at cell phone carriers... Lots of competition, but why are the prices still so high for a low bandwidth very simple service delivery? My cell phone bill is larger than my data, TV and phone combined. Each of these services has far more infrastructure, content contracts, etc
Cell phone service was a government mandated duopoly when it first started. Erecting a tower is a lot easier than running cable to each house.
Also, many people did not change their service until number porting came about. Now people change cell phone providers every time their contract is up.
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axus @ 5th Sep 10:29AM:
Re: No Alternative
Your local government's franchise agreement should require it, if they are looking out for you. Verizon is getting your right-of-way, you know. Democratic government should do what the majority of people want it to.
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axus @ 5th Sep 10:34AM:
Re: Be carefull what you wish for
And those customers switch to slower DSL which is cheaper, right? No legal reason for Comcast couldn't write a data transfer cap into all contracts going forward. But people WANT unlimited service, I don't most people are going to switch to a service that isn't net-neutral.
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jester121 @ 5th Sep 10:48AM:
Idiotic...
By the logic of this article, a webmaster could be prosecuted for using an http redirect or massaging DNS records to manage traffic.
I didn't see anything in the quoted statute that allows for causes of action by routers or network cards or TCPIP stacks. Clearly the law is outdated, which means the case gets tossed.
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telcolackey @ 5th Sep 11:27AM:
Re: OK a question....
All P2P companies, video and CDNs are claiming that "bandwidth is free" as with P2P it is free to them because of people sharing their PC, hard drive and ISP bandwidth 7x24.
To broadband ISPs, this is not free and requires a large investment in capital to support someone else's revenue based content distribution.
»www.bittorrent.com/
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telcolackey @ 5th Sep 11:30AM:
Re: I want only one thing for cable
You did not answer my question around competition vs. cost on cell phones
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moonpuppy @ 5th Sep 12:26PM:
Re: I want only one thing for cable
said by telcolackey :
You did not answer my question around competition vs. cost on cell phones
Why is the price so high? Because they can.
Airlines were accused of anti-trust because they would often match prices within minutes of each other. One airline would up its price to a certain destination and then another would do the same thing. American Airlines used to own and run Sabre (online reservation system) and a couple of others ran System One (later Amedeus.) They could monitor flight schedules, pirces and capacity all day long for themselves and others using the system. If they found one airline full and charging a higher price, other airlines would raise the price on that same segment.
Cell phone companies charge what they charge because people pay it. When people stop paying for it, then they will either lower the price or stop offering the service. Ringtones are a perfect example. It doesn't cost T-Mobile between $1.99 - $2.49 for a ringtone yet they charge that because people buy ringtones. Mostly, it's kids who have no bills and no concept of savings. They get used to it and still pay.
ATT got the nod from Consumer Reports off all people because their child cell phone control program while being $5/month was a better deal than what other companies had in terms of what it offered and the cost of the plans.
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moonpuppy @ 5th Sep 12:30PM:
Re: OK a question....
said by telcolackey :All P2P companies, video and CDNs are claiming that "bandwidth is free" as with P2P it is free to
them because of people sharing their PC, hard drive and ISP bandwidth 7x24.
To broadband ISPs, this is not free and requires a large investment in capital to support someone else's revenue based content distribution.
»
www.bittorrent.com/ So not only does BitTorrent cost but so does every single program out there that uses any sort of bandwidth.
Again, you are making a distinction that the TOS does not. If I left my IM program on 24/7, that would be using bandwidth and, according to you, is not free. Also, those programs acts as servers too.
Also, if you give something away for free, how does that give someone revenue unless you are saying it is free advertising. :uhh:
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telcolackey @ 5th Sep 12:37PM:
Re: I want only one thing for cable
Ah... So the competition that people believe will solve everything, may or may not do anything.
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AtomicZero @ 5th Sep 12:47PM:
Re: No Alternative
Your rant makes no sense.... you hate Comcast...because they are the only ones where you are. Would you prefer having nothing then? Why don't you dislike the other providers for their ineptitude for not being able to provide service where you live? Or maybe the city for not giving a rats ass about your needs. People love throwing around this "monopoly" word around like Comcast is deliberately cock-blocking everyone else. Maybe you ought to do a little research as to why other carriers aren't providing service where you are....and stop blaming Comcast for their shortcomings.
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NormanS @ 5th Sep 01:00PM:
Re: Comcrap
said by ztmike :
Of course Comcast could win in a court battle..They have a team of lawyers on their side 24/7 that are some of the highest paid in the country. Some regular old Joe is NOT going to win against that.
New York Attorney General Andrew M. Cuomo isn't a "regular old Joe". I doubt that Comcat's pockets are as deep as the pockets of the State of New York.
The question is, what would it take to get AG Cuomo interested?
--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum
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moonpuppy @ 5th Sep 01:16PM:
Re: I want only one thing for cable
said by telcolackey :
Ah... So the competition that people believe will solve everything, may or may not do anything.
It might. Notice that many people use cell phones because they are cheaper than home phones and include long distance for free. And people are always switching carriers because they can. Not so much in the wired TV world (whether it be from cable or the telcos.)
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funchords @ 5th Sep 01:20PM:
Re: That is correct comrad
Two commercial VPN services that explicitly allow P2P and are low-priced:
Relakks
SecureIX
At the present time, both seem to be experiencing growing pains. There seem to be about a dozen others. A google search for p2p vpn anonymous might bring some of them.
--
Robb Topolski -= funchords.com =- Hillsboro, Oregon USA
Are you affected by Comcast's RST forging? How to test it! -or- Read my original report.
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funchords @ 5th Sep 01:32PM:
Re: OK a question....
said by telcolackey :
On top of that you are allowing 3rd parties to make money using "your" "free bandwidth" by selling their wares off your PC.
If I get a deal in the process, why not? Skype is such an example. While I'm waiting for my next call on Skype, my application is a P2P node and sometimes my **purchased** bandwidth is used to help other nodes make calls.
That Skype is a P2P network is not a secret, it's even more efficient that way. There is no reason that I shouldn't be allowed to use such applications on my broadband service.
--
Robb Topolski -= funchords.com =- Hillsboro, Oregon USA
Are you affected by Comcast's RST forging? How to test it! -or- Read my original report.
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matrix3D @ 5th Sep 01:37PM:
Re: Comcrap
Unfortunately, in this country of ours ("The best in the world!") it is never justice or reason that wins in our courts -- it's who can spend the most money and drag it out the longest. How much longer do we have to let the rich get away with whatever they want before U.S. citizens will start the next revolution?
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lesopp @ 5th Sep 01:45PM:
Re: Comcrap
I think there is an angle worth investigating.
Remember the FCC decision to label cable modem service as an information service instead of a telecom service in effect removing regulatory requirements.
I could be wrong but a big difference between the two is that bits change in a telecom service and they do not change in an information service. I could have this completely reversed but if not then comcast is operating a telecom service and should have to experience the full impact of each appropriate regulator entity.
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PaulHikeS2 @ 5th Sep 01:47PM:
Re: No Alternative
said by jjeffeory :
No competition because there this thing called a franchise agreement. You've heard of those right?
A franchise agreement grants a company the right to provide service. It in no way prevents other companies from providing the same service. They simply have to petition for and be granted a franchise agreement by fulfilling the same obligations.
--
Jay: What the @#$% is the internet???
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anon @ 5th Sep 05:01PM:
Yes - Comcast - BitComet - Connecticut - Connection
I live in Hartford, CT and i'm experiencing upload/download of bittorrent files for the last couple of weeks. I was wondering what was the issue and trying all sorts of things. If Comcast is trying to block Bittorrent up/downloads', Will US become another China to block Internet content/trafic...?
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scooterr50 @ 5th Sep 06:14PM:
Re: linch mob reporters?
what ever people. i have great service and if that pissed you off then too bad! get a better provider is all i can say.
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lawrence171 @ 5th Sep 06:29PM:
Re: No Alternative
Without proper regulation, price collation can easily be achieved.
Comcast has bought out many of its competitors, and when they do, they could charge, in certain areas, as much as they want. This in turn, could cause severe economical damages.
Should one company's greed damage a country's economy?
--
What I used to be I no longer am... God, why can't you freeze time for my sake?
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compton @ 5th Sep 06:57PM:
Re: Be carefull what you wish for
said by halfband :
- So comcast stops throttling BT.
- BT usage starts to clog up the upload link on comcasts network.
- Users complain that the entire comcast network is too slow and demand that they "fix" it.
- Comcast increases the bandwidth of the network so BT and all the applications that BT was slowing down will work and passes along the $10 per month upgrade to us.
- Users complain about the price increase because it is supporting a small number of users and the "I don't use BT so I shouldn't have to pay for it" crowd demands that comcast enforce the TOS and stop all BT so the price can go back down.
....
Then they should deal with the bandwidth hogs directly. I use less than 25g a month. I would consider myself a light user; so why should my usage of bit torrent be limited? The problem is Comcast is throwing out the baby with the bath water. What will they do tomorrow when they decide Yotube or some other application is responsible for a sizable portion of their bandwidth usage. Are they going to interfere with those applications too. Comcast customers are finding new ways to use their bandwidth, but Comcast is not growing with the growing needs of their customers.
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macguy @ 5th Sep 08:29PM:
Ok, I have some questions.
I have a question for the people who are claiming this is a good thing because it's stopping people from using bit torrent so much that it will slow down their internet connection.
Has your internet connection gotten any faster since they started shaping traffic?
I doubt it. Stop rambling on about supporting them, acting like it's doing something for you when it's not.
I don't care if bit torrent is used for illegal things. The issue isn't what bit torrent is being used for, it's the fact that comcast is forging packets and preventing use of a certain protocol.
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anon @ 6th Sep 01:16AM:
Re: Comcrap
Charter is no better. I work for Charter. They are unorganized, cheating liars. And the subcontracting company I work for is no better. I'm sure Comcast is the same. These companies don't give two shits about their customers.
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anon @ 6th Sep 08:41AM:
Other RST connections
I've noticed in the past year (including a little while before Comcast took over for Adelphia here) that even when I upload photos to my hosted website (I'm a photographer) that I can't upload them in full sets anymore without the connection being reset. I used to upload a batch of 1000 photos (~150k each) using ftp without any problem, but now if I try to upload over 50 at a time, I'm almost guarenteed a lost connection. So it's not just BitTorrent users affected. These photos are legally shot and owned by me, and being uploaded to my website so my clients can download them. 100% legal.
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anon @ 6th Sep 10:26AM:
no thread for verizon DSL on this board, but they're doing
what comcast is doing, at least in the new york metro area. i suggest everyone reading this thread go to
»action.freepress.net/campaign/savethenet
and do something about it. perhaps it's not much but it's a start. yes, i like p2p, but the even bigger issue is that if they get away with ANY content specific filtering we're only 15 minutes away of the death of the entire internet as we used to know it.
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anon @ 6th Sep 03:21PM:
Re: The Law is the Law
Ok, after you take the time to read the slashdot tripe, take time to read the actual law being "quoted", actually paraphrased in reality. See this:
"knowingly causes the transmission of a program, information, code, or command, and as a result of such conduct, intentionally causes damage without authorization, to a protected computer;" »www.usdoj.gov/criminal/cybercrim···new.html
The law refers primarily to Government computers, financial systems, and interstate commerce. Also the specifics of the damages caused by a transmission relate to a computer, not file, nor is disruption of a file transmission damaging to the file itself, unless you are stupid enough to delete the file yourself upon attempting to transmit regardless of success. The transmission is a copy of the file, nothing more, nothing less.
Not that I disagree that Comcast is once again being overly strong-armed, but to claim they are breaking the law by misrepresenting what the law actually states and the the intent of the law is an equal disservice to the computing community.
Find a real basis for action, not some straw man argument that won't even get a hearing.
Then again, the slashdot post probably was written by another gun owner who likes to never finish the sentence in the Constitution.
As the government ads say: Reading is fundamental.
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NbWY1 @ 7th Sep 12:22AM:
I HATE Comcast.
Really though, my subject header sums it all up. I really hate Comcast. In the condominium complex I live in, Comcast owns some sort of "Exclusive Rites agreement" over cable TV. Or else my money would be with Verizon. And, while Verizon claims they cannot supply me with CATV, I'm fully eligible for FiOS phone, and my current 15/2 FiOS internet. All that comes to mind is the PacketStorm moto, Evolve or Die. Eat shit Comcast.
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Kzbd @ 7th Sep 04:11AM:
Re: Comcrap
YEAH REVOLUTION! Wait, you want to storm Comcast?
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James_C @ 7th Sep 01:13PM:
Re: Preserve the integrity of their network???
Why they wouldn't:
Filtering based on use is an invasion of privacy.
They advertised a upload and download rate. If they can't sustain this, they don't have a right to pick and choose who to deny it to. They don't get to throttle to prevent the service you paid for which was not just what YOU want to use it for.
You write about your use being faster, guess what? That's a naive view, ALL the users are supposed to have the full bandwidth they paid for, and if you don't yet, you have the same complaint but you're being selfish about trying to take from other to get what you shouldn't have been denied in the first place. Stop trying to cheat others and then you will be on a unified front to look at the real problem.
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magusat999 @ 10th Sep 01:17AM:
Re: .
I agree - and many P2P services (Napster / Shareaza / Gnutella / WinMX ... ad infinitumthat have already been shut down shouldn't have been attacked either - it's just that our politicians will find a way around the constitution or any law if somebody offers them enough grease...
And anyway - you don't need a P2P to get illegal files. P2P doesn't even scratch the surface of how "illegal" software is distributed.
I think it's time for a cassette tape or VHS protest... since it isn't illegal to record with tapes and VHS, wouldn't it be interesting if a point was made by using those formats to share a recent movie or album? And when the screaming starts, then the point of it's legality can be raised and the question can be staged... If it was okay (legal) in one format - why isn't it okay in another???
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magusat999 @ 11th Sep 01:46AM:
Re: Be carefull what you wish for
Oh please - if Comcrap was that close to having a problem maintaining banwidth on their network - that if all it's users consistantly used the top speed of WHAT THEY ARE PAYING COMCRAP FOR in a sustained manner, Comcast wouldn't be able to handle the traffic - resulting in some kind of digital log-jam, then why in the hell are they selling people higher tiers and powerboost - which can almost quadruple your speeds??? They are either stupid or dishonest! If they are telling customers that they are paying for 8mbps service, then that's what they should get - and they cannot use "illegal usage" as a reason to throttle unless they can positively tell that there is such illegal use. They cannot tell simply by the amount of up/downloading - or because it's a P2P network - the only way to be 100% sure is to intercept and analyze the download. Since that is invasion of privacy WHICH IS ILLEGAL, then it stands to reason that Comcast has no legal recourse for restricting a users activities in regards to what they are up/downloading. Therefore a TOS statement is unenforceable.
If Comcrap followed you example, and opened up it's bandwidth, you know what that would be? COMCAST DOING WHAT IT IS SUPPOSED TO BE DOING! And as far as the sudden increase of traffic "slowing down the net" - that's a load of crap. America's internet is so throttled , controlled and artificially slowed-down (we can't "afford" or will not pay what they want to offer us unfettered speeds... it's all part of the "plan" to keep it at a certain pace because we will pay more later...) that "opening up the bandwidth" might not get good headlines for all the fake complaints from Comcrap and other rip-off artists - but technically will actually help the internet to run better.
Japan has speeds of over 30mbps - I frequent some of their forums as well... I rarely hear them complaining about "bandwidth" issues - which from the very start wasn't really a physical value anyway - it's an arbitrary unit used to give companies like Comcrap a tangible reason to charge you! That's why the only time you hear about them spending a lot of money is when they are expanding lines or upgradeing equipment.
Bandwidth is the biggest con ever created - once you are connected it really costs next to nothing as the signal is just an electronic stream... and with broadband your "electronic stream" is always connected... But people have allowed themselves to be conned into NOT thinking about it. It cost more to throttle than it does to let it flow - but then, if you want to have a reason to continually raise prices - of course your going to portion it out,, raising the price each time you open the hose a bit.
All of your points sound like the brainwashed babble that Comcrap infuses and even spouts itself in defense of it's practices. Even if it were true - there are simply not enough people on BT or all of the P2P networks to "clog up the network" anyway, regardless if they were downloading at full powerboost speeds. And Comcrap is going to raise your fees regardless - might as well get something out of it - like the ability to actually USE the speed you paid them for... consistantly... at a sustained rate...
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