Cox: Fully Upgraded To 1Ghz By 2011 - Will upgrade 12,000 miles of network in 2009
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Cox: Fully Upgraded To 1Ghz By 2011
Will upgrade 12,000 miles of network in 2009
(old news - 10:44AM Monday Feb 02 2009)
tags: business · hardware · alternatives · bandwidth · cable · networking
Cox is upgrading its network to 1Ghz equipment across its entire customer base. The upgrade (and this is even before we get into DOCSIS 3.0) will allow the cable provider to increase standard definition channels from 100 to 200+ and HD channels past 100+. It will also allow the provider to offer tiers of 25Mbps/4Mbps for relatively little dough. A Cox exec recently stated that between 1Ghz upgrades, switched digital video (which frees bandwidth by holding unwatched channels at the edge router), and DOCSIS 3.0, cable is "on the cusp" of conquering bandwidth worries "for at least the next 10 years." According to MultiChannel News, Cox says they'll upgrade an additional 12,000 miles of its network to 1 GHz this year, reaching 80% of homes by the end of 2010. Of course, Cox will also be helped by their announcement last week that on top of monthly caps, the carrier intends to "de-prioritize" non time sensitive traffic -- particularly of the P2P variety. They've also adopted a new RIAA plan to terminate the connections of users who repeatedly traffic in copyrighted content.
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baineschile @ 2nd Feb 09:36AM:
Last Mile
Will cable ever lay last mile fiber? Or will other network upgrades around their current system let them compete with verizon for the next decade....
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jmn1207 @ 2nd Feb 09:39AM:
Bandwidth Worries?
With the aggressive caps that Cox employs, why would they be concerned about bandwidth?
»www.cox.com/policy/limitations.asp
What, do they expect to cram tons of new customers on their existing network? Is that why they need to improve their infrastructure?
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Matt @ 2nd Feb 09:50AM:
Re: Last Mile
said by baineschile :
Will cable ever lay last mile fiber? Or will other network upgrades around their current system let them compete with verizon for the next decade....
They will when they need to. You can already get a direct fiber drop from most MSO business class divisions so they have the technology. They have ZERO reason right now to shoulder the expense of running FTTH though. Coax has a lot of life left in it for the majority of people and the 1GHz upgrade extends it even more.
Also, Verizon, FiOS specifically, is a very localized threat to most cable companies. Verizon doesn't serve a very large part of the country, so in the areas where FiOS is the competing product, Cable can roll out DOCSIS 3.0 surgically.
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openbox9 @ 2nd Feb 09:53AM:
Re: Bandwidth Worries?
It's not just about HSI.
will allow the cable provider to increase standard definition channels from 100 to 200+ and HD channels past 100+
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Da Man @ 2nd Feb 10:02AM:
Re: Bandwidth Worries?
Where are the 1GHZ tuners to watch these new channels?
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openbox9 @ 2nd Feb 10:11AM:
Re: Bandwidth Worries?
Maybe they'll be coming along with the upgrades. Can the current tuners continue to be utilized by the MSOs moving HSI QAM channels to the added frequency range and maintaining TV in the existing range?
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coxengr @ 2nd Feb 10:20AM:
Re: Bandwidth Worries?
Here you go:
»tinyurl.com/Motorola-1GHz
»tinyurl.com/CiscoSA-1GHz
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djrobx @ 2nd Feb 10:44AM:
Re: Bandwidth Worries?
Time Warner went and replaced our gear with 1ghz stuff last year. But they haven't bothered to deploy new set tops, nor DOCSIS 3. Maybe they'll do something useful with it by 2020. :)
-- Rob
--
AT&T U-Hearse
Your funeral. Delivered.
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Dogfather @ 2nd Feb 10:44AM:
Re: Bandwidth Worries?
I've been with Cox for over 10 years, regularly blow through my caps and only got one abuse letter back in the @Home days.
I haven't seen anyone recently (within the last few years) get an abuse letter or get cancelled for going over the caps. Cox during the earlier network management debate used examples of their users using over 900MB/mo so I don't think Cox is enforcing their advertised cap in any of their markets.
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deadzoned @ 2nd Feb 10:49AM:
Traffic Management
Caps, Traffic Management, and 1ghz equipment upgrades... They are preparing for teh impending BANDWIDTH APOCALYPSE that all of the cable and telephone companies are so afraid of that seems more imaginary than real.
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Eat Me @ 2nd Feb 11:00AM:
Told you so
Cable can.
For most home users, fiber to the home is really overkill at this point.
When there's a need for something like 1GBps speeds to the home, FTTH would be appropriate, but there's a lot that HFC can do that it isn't doing.
Not to say that it shouldn't be built out, but cable providers can leverage their existing cable plant for advanced services at minimal cost.
They are either just too lazy to do it, or bogged down by FCC rules and legacy customers who will howl and complain if they start dropping analog service. These are probably the same customers who resist getting a cable box or DTA because of the outrageous fees for rental that the cablecos charge.
Kudos, Cox. Let's hope the rest follow suit. With Verizon breathing FiOS down their necks they sure have an incentive to.
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anon @ 2nd Feb 11:02AM:
Re: Last Mile
Probably not, ftt curb/node/neighboorhood and some variant of wireless from there to the house will probably be the next evolutionary stage.
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Eat Me @ 2nd Feb 11:04AM:
Re: Last Mile
Wireless would actually be a step back, unless you're talking about wireless plant extension.
The attenuation and SNR through the air versus through the coax makes using the existing coax a no brainer.
Fiber to the home is seriously overkill for most home users.
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Eat Me @ 2nd Feb 11:09AM:
Re: Bandwidth Worries?
said by Da Man :
Where are the 1GHZ tuners to watch these new channels?
I believe DOCSIS3 cable modems can do 1GHz.
Most STBs are 860MHz but they won't need more than that in the interim as the data services will be moved out of that space.
FiOS only uses 860MHz for its video portion.
Furthermore if video can be moved to MPEG4 they can cram in even more channels without reducing quality. It's almost inevitable anyway as programming providers are moving to MPEG4 and the DBS providers already have.
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jmn1207 @ 2nd Feb 11:49AM:
Re: Bandwidth Worries?
said by Eat Me :said by Da Man :
Where are the 1GHZ tuners to watch these new channels?
I believe DOCSIS3 cable modems can do 1GHz.
Most STBs are 860MHz but they won't need more than that in the interim as the data services will be moved out of that space.
FiOS only uses 860MHz for its video portion.
Furthermore if video can be moved to MPEG4 they can cram in even more channels without reducing quality. It's almost inevitable anyway as programming providers are moving to MPEG4 and the DBS providers already have.
Does Cable provide data and voice over the same spectrum? I know that FiOS does not, as the data is a completely different wavelength than their video service. Another advantage that FiOS has over cable, for now, is that they do not have a ton of analog channels to provide. Once the cable companies can switch to all digital channels, this will free up a huge chunk of bandwidth as well.
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espaeth @ 2nd Feb 12:01PM:
Re: Bandwidth Worries?
said by Eat Me :
Most STBs are 860MHz but they won't need more than that in the interim as the data services will be moved out of that space.
Furthermore if video can be moved to MPEG4 they can cram in even more channels without reducing quality. It's almost inevitable anyway as programming providers are moving to MPEG4 and the DBS providers already have.
A move to MPEG4 would require brand new STBs as the current generation only has hardware MPEG2 decoders. At that time it would only make sense to deploy MPEG4 boxes that had 1GHz tuners.
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Eat Me @ 2nd Feb 12:13PM:
Re: Bandwidth Worries?
said by espaeth :said by Eat Me :
Most STBs are 860MHz but they won't need more than that in the interim as the data services will be moved out of that space.
Furthermore if video can be moved to MPEG4 they can cram in even more channels without reducing quality. It's almost inevitable anyway as programming providers are moving to MPEG4 and the DBS providers already have.
A move to MPEG4 would require brand new STBs as the current generation only has hardware MPEG2 decoders. At that time it would only make sense to deploy MPEG4 boxes that had 1GHz tuners.
I don't see swapping out boxes for customers who want, say an additional HD tier to be a problem. After all, the cable companies always tout "free" equipment upgrades as a reason to go to cable vs satellite.
Some customer owned equipment (such as TiVo) also has MPEG-4 built in as well.
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Eat Me @ 2nd Feb 12:17PM:
Re: Bandwidth Worries?
said by jmn1207 :
Does Cable provide data and voice over the same spectrum? I know that FiOS does not, as the data is a completely different wavelength than their video service. Another advantage that FiOS has over cable, for now, is that they do not have a ton of analog channels to provide. Once the cable companies can switch to all digital channels, this will free up a huge chunk of bandwidth as well.
FiOS and cable are doing the same thing, except the FiOS is using wavelengths of light. Cable is using wavelength of RF. They are both electromagnetic waves.
But separate spectrums of whatever don't matter at all. All that matters is total bandwidth allocated, whether it is continuous or broken up across the spectrum.
Since Cox does plan on keeping some level of analog service, they will most likely put some digital video (digital cable) over 860MHz and towards 1GHz.
The article also mentioned MPEG-4 so it is likely that they will end up deploying new STBs with 1GHz and MPEG-4 capability.
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iansltx @ 2nd Feb 12:24PM:
Re: Told you so
860 MHz for TV (FiOS does this) + 140 MHz for internet. Someone help me on ow many DOCSIS channels that is. 38 Mbps per downstream channel, 30 Mbps per upstream channel. If you calculate it out, that still leaves Comcast with less internet capacity on a node than BPON (let alone GPON), and that's not counting space reserved for their cable voice system. It's also a shared system...with a hundred or two customers per node.
Then again, with MPEG4 and SDV they can squeeze out some more capacity, probably getting up to a competitive level with BPON.
At which point Verizon will probaby revise tiers as follows (wild guesses):
10/2 -> 15/2
20/5 -> 30/15 or maybe 10 Mbps on uploads
20/20 -> 30/30 or maybe 20 Mbps on uploads
50/20 -> 100/30 or maybe 20 Mbps on uploads
At which point Cox can't do a whole lot, particularly on the high end. If Verizon offers anything above 20 Mbps upstream Cox has to do upstream channel bonding to meet that.
Oh wait, no MSO has deployed more than 10 Mbps uploads, only one has deployed more than 5 Mbps, and only two (that I know of) have deployed more than 3 Mbps. Unfortunately, even with 1GHz, Cox will still likely have to use FTTPR (fiber to the press release) to fend off FiOS speeds. Unless they can make their TV picture quality really good, provide 25/4 service for a lower cost than Verizon offers 20/5, offer even higher speed tiers to those who want them, and generally stretch their system to compete with fiber.
Yes, coax can do a lot, but if fiber gets out the big guns coax is toast. If FiOS moves to MPEG4 video, they can probably pump down 1080p of every channel they have. Or maybe Blu-ray quality on their current 1080 HD channels. *shrugs* But I like competition, and hope the cablecos give it all they'ev got, even if they're sticking to a tech they'll have to massage to get enough performance out of it.
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jmn1207 @ 2nd Feb 12:27PM:
Re: Bandwidth Worries?
Cable and FiOS are not the same. The full 860MHz spectrum from FiOS TV is ONLY used for their TV services and has nothing to do with the GPON or BPON ONT data bandwidth. FiOS uses the same 860MHz spectrum only so that they can utilize existing cable equipment at the homes.
Cable uses the 860MHz spectrum for everything.
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anon @ 2nd Feb 12:29PM:
1 Ghz bandwidth calculation
A 1 Ghz upgrade provides a lot of bandwidth. Here is my basic calculation converting that to the gross digital bandwidth.
1,000 Mhz (a.k.a. 1 Ghz)
DIVIDED BY
6 Mhz (cable system bandwidth is divided into 6 Mhz chunks ... also known as channels)
EQUALS
167 channels
MULTIPLIED BY
38 Mbps (current QAM digital modulators used in cable systems produce about 38 Mbps of data throughput per cable channel)
EQUALS
6,333 Mbps (the gross data throughput of a 1 Ghz cable system)
OR
6.3 Gbps of gross digital bandwidth
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Eat Me @ 2nd Feb 12:36PM:
Re: Bandwidth Worries?
This isn't about 860MHz. This is about 1GHz.
And since it's about 1GHz, Cox will have the full 860MHz and more that FiOS has. Furthermore it's actually 820MHz forward path that FiOS uses now, since 5-42 is used for the return and 0-5 is wasted. That 820MHz and more bandwidth will be available for video if cable companies move to 1GHz.
Furthermore with MPEG-4 they will be able to carry the same quality video since MPEG-4 can carry the same quality video using less bandwidth.
To the end user it will be an equivalent offering to what FiOS has for the video service, and until Verizon offers more than 320MBps for internet service, the cable companies can match whatever Verizon decides to offer, not that the average home user can pay for or fully use a 20MBps, let alone a 320MBps connection anyway.
And yes it is one an the same. If you disagree, I suggest you go back to high school and retake some of your science classes, especially those about electromagnetic waves.
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anon @ 2nd Feb 12:47PM:
Re: Told you so
I think price will be far more important to most end users than anything else. Cox will be 'close enough' for most people if there price is better.
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Eat Me @ 2nd Feb 12:52PM:
Re: Told you so
140MHz will give about 23 channels. Let's say they steal one channel from the video portion to make it a nice even 24. Verizon doesn't use all of the 860MHz yet anyway. There's still lots of breathing room in there.
With 8 channel DOCSIS3 that's 3 sets of 304Mbps channels. That's three virtual nodes.
They mentioned they'd also be doing node splits to get it down to around 550 users per node. 550/3 will give you 183 users per virtual node, which isn't a bad ratio at all.
MPEG-4 will of course allow more room than this, so they can stretch what they have for what is relatively a minimal investment. It's certainly a lot cheaper than deploying last mile fiber and cheaper than installing ONTs at every customer's house, especially with 8 hours per install.
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Eat Me @ 2nd Feb 12:53PM:
Re: 1 Ghz bandwidth calculation
Not really. Ignore the first 42MHz because that will be used for return path.
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jmn1207 @ 2nd Feb 12:54PM:
Re: Bandwidth Worries?
said by Eat Me :
This isn't about 860MHz. This is about 1GHz.
And since it's about 1GHz, Cox will have the full 860MHz and more that FiOS has. Furthermore it's actually 820MHz forward path that FiOS uses now, since 5-42 is used for the return and 0-5 is wasted. That 820MHz and more bandwidth will be available for video if cable companies move to 1GHz.
Furthermore with MPEG-4 they will be able to carry the same quality video since MPEG-4 can carry the same quality video using less bandwidth.
To the end user it will be an equivalent offering to what FiOS has for the video service, and until Verizon offers more than 320MBps for internet service, the cable companies can match whatever Verizon decides to offer, not that the average home user can pay for or fully use a 20MBps, let alone a 320MBps connection anyway.
And yes it is one an the same. If you disagree, I suggest you go back to high school and retake some of your science classes, especially those about electromagnetic waves.
It's not the same, Fios uses a separate wavelength of fiber that does not take away any capacity from their digital television service. Cable uses QAM channels that take up a certain amount of the frequency spectrum. Such as a 6MHz channel. There are a limited number that can be distributed. Within this 860MHz spectrum, all TV, data, and voice services are transmitted. For FiOS, ONLY the TV service is used for the ENTIRE 860MHz spectrum.
It's different.
»www.cedmagazine.com/article.aspx?id=68206
My FiOS ONT is rated up to 1.2 GHz right now. They are also ready to provide MPEG-4, but with the same issues that cable has providing the necessary STB's to everyone. The latest Motorola boxes that many FiOS customers have can already do MPEG-4.
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Eat Me @ 2nd Feb 12:55PM:
Re: Told you so
I think that's the idea.
To be quite honest I couldn't care less if I got 100mbps internet at home. What am I going to do with that?
I do want better quality HD, i.e. not 3 per QAM.
I'm quite happy with my current 30/2 internet (I'm not a cox customer) except maybe for a bit more upload.
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Eat Me @ 2nd Feb 12:57PM:
Re: Bandwidth Worries?
1. We are talking about cable going to 1GHz, not 860MHz.
2. A different wavelength of RF is the same concept as different wavelength of light.
Pay attention in science class next time.
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iansltx @ 2nd Feb 01:12PM:
Re: Told you so
True. Though 550 customers per node is quite high...and 183 customers per virtual node is still worse than BPON. But it is cheaper.
As to the channel measurement, I must've miscounted earlier. That makes sense now. But still, 8-channel-bonding modems won't be out for another year or two, and don't you have to account for upstream channels as well, so a 3/1 channel bonded setup would use 4 channels?
Thx for clarifying...
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DarkLogix @ 2nd Feb 01:28PM:
Re: 1 Ghz bandwidth calculation
42MHz would be 7 Channels we'd need to up it to 48 to get 8 Upstream channels
then
159 * 38Mbit = 6042Mbit
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jmn1207 @ 2nd Feb 01:39PM:
Re: Bandwidth Worries?
said by Eat Me :
1. We are talking about cable going to 1GHz, not 860MHz.
2. A different wavelength of RF is the same concept as different wavelength of light.
Pay attention in science class next time.
Please show me where cable is using separate wavelengths over coaxial cable.
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ajwees41 @ 2nd Feb 01:41PM:
Re: Bandwidth Worries?
said by jmn1207 :With the aggressive caps that Cox employs, why would they be concerned about bandwidth?
»
www.cox.com/policy/limitations.aspWhat, do they expect to cram tons of new customers on their existing network? Is that why they need to improve their infrastructure?
the caps aren't enforced.
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jmn1207 @ 2nd Feb 02:02PM:
Re: Bandwidth Worries?
said by Eat Me :
2. A different wavelength of RF is the same concept as different wavelength of light.
Pay attention in science class next time.
I've never disputed this, if you read my comments I have been saying that FiOS and cable are not the same. And you keep suggesting that cable is doing the same thing with wavelengths over the RF spectrum in the same way that FiOS is using separate wavelengths over optical cable. This is not true. They are not doing the same thing.
There is a lot more bandwidth available with FTTH, even considering the upgrade to the 1GHz spectrum.
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en102 @ 2nd Feb 02:21PM:
Re: Bandwidth Worries?
I think TWC has bigger issues than just deploying Docsis 3.
Running 1GHz may bring out issues in many older homes with RG-59U. I had an issue on 1 link in my house that is RG59U (DTV replaced the other 2 with RG6 a few years back).
Worked fine on DTV - but TWC digital gear didn't like it.
I ended up taking an old(er) RG6 that ran the long way around and works Ok.
Many 'older' houses may end up with issues similar to mine.
This is probably similar to AT&T with old POTS wire having issues.
--
Canada = Hollywood North
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Eat Me @ 2nd Feb 02:25PM:
Re: Bandwidth Worries?
It's basic physics.
If you have two different CATV channels, one carrying TV and the other carrying DOCSIS, they are carried on different frequencies and hence different wavelengths.
The only difference is that with FiOS it is colors of light and with cable it's all RF.
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Eat Me @ 2nd Feb 02:27PM:
Re: 1 Ghz bandwidth calculation
said by DarkLogix :
42MHz would be 7 Channels we'd need to up it to 48 to get 8 Upstream channels
then
159 * 38Mbit = 6042Mbit
Part of the problem is that most amps only pass 5-42MHz on the return path. To change that you'd have to change out all of the amps and I don't think that's cost effective yet.
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Eat Me @ 2nd Feb 02:32PM:
Re: Bandwidth Worries?
You have been disputing it over and over, yet the facts keep flying in your face and you just wipe it off and continue.
Yes, I agree that FTTH has more bandwidth available.
Yes I agree that GPON and fiber in general is capable of much more than coax is right now.
Yes I agree that cable is severely limited by physics, with coaxial copper cables having significantly more attenuation in dB/km than fiber.
BUT!
I do not think that matters for product offerings today nor up to 5 years from now in the USA.
I think that cable can offer all that FiOS is offering today with a move to use more RF spectrum.
Yes I do think that cable will eventually have to go fiber for the last mile, but I don't think that's necessary today to offer what Verizon is.
No I don't think that Verizon is going to offer 1GBps today for $50 or even $100. Not in this country and not in this economy.
Yes I do think that using advanced techniques such as MPEG4 compression is necessary to free up even more bandwidth.
Understood?
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jmn1207 @ 2nd Feb 02:35PM:
Re: Bandwidth Worries?
That is NOT how DOCSIS works. DOCSIS uses a portion of that 860MHz spectrum. Even DOCSIS 3.0 uses up to 10 bonded 6MHz channels for a total of 60MHz, leaving just 800MHz left for TV, and phone service.
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DarkLogix @ 2nd Feb 03:34PM:
Re: 1 Ghz bandwidth calculation
Maybe so but to do full D3 8ch down and 8ch up they'll have to
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Eat Me @ 2nd Feb 03:34PM:
Re: Bandwidth Worries?
said by jmn1207 :
That is NOT how DOCSIS works. DOCSIS uses a portion of that 860MHz spectrum. Even DOCSIS 3.0 uses up to 10 bonded 6MHz channels for a total of 60MHz, leaving just 800MHz left for TV, and phone service.
DOCSIS can use any frequency that the tuner supports. If the cable system is 1GHz, it can use anywhere within that 1GHz of space.
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Eat Me @ 2nd Feb 03:48PM:
Re: 1 Ghz bandwidth calculation
said by DarkLogix :
Maybe so but to do full D3 8ch down and 8ch up they'll have to
As far as I am aware, D3 doesn't have 8 channels bonded for upstream, only downstream.
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DarkLogix @ 2nd Feb 04:03PM:
Re: 1 Ghz bandwidth calculation
Actually it does
it can have upto 8 each way but its not happening yet and CC is only doing 3 for now anyway
I don't think an 8 up modem has even been made yet
but some day
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Eat Me @ 2nd Feb 04:06PM:
Re: 1 Ghz bandwidth calculation
said by DarkLogix :
Actually it does
it can have upto 8 each way but its not happening yet and CC is only doing 3 for now anyway
I don't think an 8 up modem has even been made yet
but some day
8*6 = 48MHz which will not fit in the return path for standard cable systems which gives 38MHz for the return path.
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DarkLogix @ 2nd Feb 04:10PM:
Re: 1 Ghz bandwidth calculation
Cable systems will need a new standard return path
it might take awhile and with only 38Mhz for now 6ch up would be the limit
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cypherstream @ 2nd Feb 04:29PM:
Re: 1 Ghz bandwidth calculation
There are "mid-split" and "high-split" options available, but deploying that would best be done now, while Cox is swapping out gear for 1 GHz variants.
But way to go Cox for actually doing something. Your far better than Comcast!
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cypherstream @ 2nd Feb 04:34PM:
Every provider will innovate, except the giant Comcast.
Gee, you don't hear Comcast doing a damn thing in this regard. Hell, they still have 450 and 550 MHz systems around. They got way too greedy and purchased every mom and pop cable system they could get their dirty little hands on. Why? Just to let the old infrastructure sit there and rot?
My area is 750 MHz. It's been 750 MHz HFC for a little over 10 years now. Every 10 years the systems should of depreciated enough to warrent an upgrade. But what does Comcast do (more like what DON'T they do...)? They just let the old SA System II linegear sit up there and get rusty. Way to go with a crummy lineup and very minuscule HD lineup.
Heck, I know a provider in my area that's rather small called Service Electric Cablevision. I used to have them in fact. They upgraded from Magnavox 750 MHz to C-COR 870 MHz gear. Yeah, you woudn't catch Comcast ever do such a wonderful thing for their network and customers!
COX, KUDOS to you! Your really doing a stellar job, and that's quite an ambitious project. I also think they are working with NDS on a new Tru2Way guide for the cable boxes. Another thumbs up! Meanwhile everyone else is stuck with plain old SARA or crappy I-Guide.
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jmallory @ 2nd Feb 05:00PM:
Re: Every provider will innovate, except the giant Comcast.
The South Oakland (Royal Oak, MI) system was upgraded to 1Ghz last year. Lansing, MI was upgraded as well. The rest of Metro Detroit is 860Mhz. Yes, Comcast has a lot of 450 / 550 / 750 systems but Comcast has a lot of systems period.
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cypherstream @ 2nd Feb 05:11PM:
Re: Every provider will innovate, except the giant Comcast.
What I like about Cox, however, is their blanket statement that all systems will be 1 GHz by 2011. From Comcast you get no statement at all, as they love to keep you guessing. The biggest problem with Comcast is their lack of consistency. From lineups to guides to system capacity, you name it. That's got to be the biggest downfall to their sheer size.
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Eat Me @ 2nd Feb 07:44PM:
Re: 1 Ghz bandwidth calculation
Agreed.
The ol' coax still got a lot of life left. I think a lot of people see fiber as the new sexy medium but don't realize that they're not nearly using it to its capability, and not even using it to the capability that coax has.
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major marco @ 2nd Feb 07:55PM:
Re: Bandwidth Worries?
said by Dogfather :
I don't think Cox is enforcing their advertised cap in any of their markets.
They don't have to because they just de-prioritize manage network traffic throttle streaming audio/video, and any patches/hotfixes/updates during 5-9p. Throttling over a four hour window allows Cocks to do such "wonderful" things as "upgrading" to 1Ghz. They're basically fucking over one set of subscribers in favor of impressing another set completely enthralled with the so called upgrade. In reality, anyone impressed with the 1Ghz news is braindead and/or does not have to suffer with Cocks as their ISP.
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atuarre @ 3rd Feb 01:24AM:
Re: Every provider will innovate, except the giant Comcast.
Cox is a privately owned company and does not have to answer to shareholders about the costs of upgrades. Shareholders are interested in a return on the their investment, not about what the customer wants. Comcast is still a public company.
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Ignite @ 3rd Feb 05:36AM:
Re: Told you so
OK that's all well and good deploying 3 MAC domains over a single physical node, what about the upstream?
These guys will have to share 5 - 42MHz, 37MHz of bandwidth available absolute best case and no chance of this happening in reality. So you'll be able to squeeze 1 x 6.4MHz, 1 x 3.2MHz and 1 x 1.6MHz channels in, again absolutely best case and I'm not even sure if you can bond dissimilar channels on the upstream. Even if you can the best you'll get is 45.2Mbps to each MAC domain.
304Mbps downstream and 45.2Mbps upstream - not a good ratio.
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dvd536 @ 3rd Feb 06:10AM:
Re: Told you so
said by Eat Me :
Kudos, Cox. Let's hope the rest follow suit. With Verizon breathing FiOS down their necks they sure have an incentive to.
Yeah. but ONLY in fios[have] areas!
--
When I gez aju zavateh na nalechoo more new yonooz tonigh molinigh - Ken Lee
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anon @ 3rd Feb 08:13AM:
Re: 1 Ghz bandwidth calculation
said by RW Guy :
A 1 Ghz upgrade provides a lot of bandwidth. Here is my basic calculation converting that to the gross digital bandwidth.
1,000 Mhz (a.k.a. 1 Ghz)
DIVIDED BY
6 Mhz (cable system bandwidth is divided into 6 Mhz chunks ... also known as channels)
EQUALS
167 channels
MULTIPLIED BY
38 Mbps (current QAM digital modulators used in cable systems produce about 38 Mbps of data throughput per cable channel)
EQUALS
6,333 Mbps (the gross data throughput of a 1 Ghz cable system)
OR
6.3 Gbps of gross digital bandwidth
and that matchs up nicely with the official dicsis3 125x135 bonded channels to give you 5 gigabit+ down and 3 gigabit+ up, the EU and UK have Eurodocsis3 at 8 Mhz chunks OC, so have more to play with.....
given Euro DS is standard and generic in the worlds chipsets,could the US also start employing 8 Mhz Euro docsis kit too get that little bit more usable freq i wonder?
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anon @ 3rd Feb 08:15AM:
Re: 1 Ghz bandwidth calculation
RLH_115 said"Ignore the first 42MHz because that will be used for return path."
Eat Me said"Part of the problem is that most amps only pass 5-42MHz on the return path. To change that you'd have to change out all of the amps and I don't think that's cost effective yet."
Eat Me said"8*6 = 48MHz which will not fit in the return path for standard cable systems which gives 38MHz for the return path."
Hmm, this is slightly confusing and clarification perhaps....
as it stands that first 42MHz is taken from the lower span freqs, you can get more usable freq from the alalogue spectrum, thats the whole point of turning it off on the cable....
however as you say currnetly "amps only pass 5-42MHz" so what off the shelf amps exist TODAY that go a lot higher ?
and it seems logical that once you turn off your analogue channels in the lower space, that you fit these new filter and move all your broadband channels a lot higher up so giving you far more retun path freq, is that about right ?
this is were it needs clarification "48MHz which will not fit in the return path for standard cable systems "
the whole point of DS3 is channel bonding in both the down and the upstream, so how does DS3 match up its bonding upstream!, surely its just taking 4 (the official minimum DS3 spec)or more seperate assigned 38MHz channels and virtually bonding them ?
true there are no 8x8 outside the lab as yet, butthe official spec allows for upto 125x125 bonding (5gig+ x 3gig+) there must be a strict formular they used to reach that 125 bonded channels on todays infrastructure.
perhaps they are allowing for the 1.5 gig on the bench now and allowing for its longer term growth and deployment but still it seems odd to do that.... perhaps their also allowing for DVB-C2 with its larger usable freq per channel to come to market soon, but allowing for that, were does the final No.s sit ?
1gig +highest amp +matching tunner +DVB-C2 +lower analogue tuned off and re-purposed for BB +shifted up freq to allow for far greater return path +MPEG$ AVC/AAC + something ni forget that exists TODAY and off the shelf...
they wont commission custom kit so its got to exist today off the shelf or at least in the labs ready for near term deployment and commercial manufacture....
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cdru @ 3rd Feb 08:01AM:
Not much of an upgrade
The upgrade...will allow the cable provider to increase standard definition channels from 100 to 200+ and HD channels past 100+.
200+ SD channels and 100+ HD channels? This is what their upgrade is getting them? Their competition is already well beyond that on the SD front and nearly at that on the HD front. I remember years ago Dish offering 250+ channels as part of their highest non-premium tier. Similar with DirecTV. Both have around 90 channels in HD IIRC. The Essentials plan with FiOS TV has 250+ SD channels and another 100+ are available in HD. All this doesn't include quite a few spanish, international, adult, or other niche programming that is also available that greatly increases the number of channels.
If they are only going to 200+/100+, I guess they have a different idea of what conquering bandwidth concerns for the next 10 years means.
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geowil @ 3rd Feb 09:51AM:
Re: Bandwidth Worries?
they hardly enforce their caps at all. I have downloaded over 80 gigs three months in a row and they have said or done nothing.
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geowil @ 3rd Feb 09:55AM:
Re: Bandwidth Worries?
really? between those times I have never noticed a drop in speed ever from youtube or azureus or anything. o.O
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motorola870 @ 3rd Mar 07:57PM:
Re: Bandwidth Worries?
time warner cable north texas did an upgrade during the last 2 1/2 years
we went from 750MHz/550MHz motorola gear dual line areas to
870MHz motorola gear with some 1GHz nodes, Amps, and LE's.
SNR on highest channel (CBS COLLEGE SPORTS HD) is
QAM 256
861MHz
SNR: 39.7dB
SNR: GOOD
ERROR:000000
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