ISPs Won't Admit Participation In New RIAA Plan - Only Verizon has clearly stated they're not playing along...
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ISPs Won't Admit Participation In New RIAA Plan
Only Verizon has clearly stated they're not playing along...
(old news - 09:00AM Tuesday Jan 06 2009)
tags: legal · Fileswapping · business · bandwidth · Op/Ed · Comcast · Verizon Online DSL · AT&T Midwest
Tipped by Mactron
The RIAA recently announced that they'd struck closed door deals with several ISPs to boot repeat P2P pirates off of their networks. The only ISP we're sure has signed on to this so far is Cox -- and despite what they tell their subscribers, the DMCA does not require ISPs to participate in this project. If anything, the DMCA's safe harbor provisions protect ISPs from having to participate in a system that's going to be costly and potentially unreliable.  We are not working with them on this -Verizon, on the RIAA's new three strikes plan |
While the RIAA says they've struck deals with a number of "leading" carriers, apparently those carriers don't want their cooperation publicized. Wired news has tried to track down which ISPs are participating in this plan. Only Verizon offers official comment, saying definitively that "we are not working with them on this." You might recall that Verizon has won previous run-ins with the RIAA over disclosing P2P user identities. Their FiOS infrastructure capacity also doesn't require that they use piracy as an excuse to boot P2P users (yet). AT&T, Comcast, and the National Cable & Telecommunications Association all offer no comment. So why are the deals not only being hashed out in private -- but nobody wants to admit they're participating? If stopping piracy is the right thing to do, why aren't ISPs proudly crowing about their involvement at every opportunity? Potentially because piracy has been broadband's unspoken killer app for the better part of the decade, and ISPs want to eat their cake and have it too. Carriers don't want the negative PR kick and potential customer defections associated with clearly announcing that they're fighting piracy, but they want to quietly tackle congestion while staying on the RIAA's good side -- so they're playing along quietly. Or perhaps, as Techdirt reasons, the involvement of NY's Attorney General has some ISPs thinking it's mandatory. Andrew Cuomo most recently informed ISPs they'd be sued if they didn't participate in his crackdown against child porn -- a plan that in reality didn't actually accomplish anything.
Related:- Comcast Tells FCC To Butt Out
- Comcast Seeks P2P “Bill of Rights and Responsibilities”
- AT&T, Comcast Part Of RIAA's New 3 Strikes Plan
- Verizon Continues Proud History Of Denial
- Barry Manilow Highlights 'Three Strikes' Law Stupidity
- Comcast Still Fighting FCC Throttling Sanction
- Comcast Slammed For Non-Existent Throttling Changes
- Verizon Again Hints At Metered Billing
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Edrick @ 6th Jan 09:12AM:
The Reason Why
We got Broadband back in 2000/2001 with MediaOne RoadRunner was because of Napster and free music.
--
Ricky Smith
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Mactron @ 6th Jan 09:20AM:
Only Verizon
Only Verizon offers official comment, saying definitively that "we are not working with them on this."
:) :D ;)
--
If only the Verizon CSRs worked this well. ;)
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pleekmo @ 6th Jan 09:27AM:
My Suspicions
I suspect that one reason they aren't admitting is that not only will the ISPs receive negative PR but you can just bet that eventually one or more will be sued for this practice.
I suspect that first in line will be the EFF suing to learn the identity of these participating ISPs and to learn the details of the participation.
I suspect that an affected user will eventually sue and here is where things will get interesting during discovery.
I suspect that some lawyer will eventually argue that such participation negates the ISP's safe harbor protection. This may also make things interesting.
--
HCN: Because you deserve a rest!
Proud member of the Free Omelas Liberation Front.
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Kearnstd @ 6th Jan 09:27AM:
Re: Only Verizon
and i am awaiting the posts from the local RIAA lovers that will come out and accuse Verizon of "Aiding the cause of piracy" because they wont play internet mall security guard.
--
[65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports
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ISurfTooMuch @ 6th Jan 09:42AM:
It won't be a secret for long
If this policy goes into effect, it will have to be communicated to ISP employees who have the authority to terminate users. Frontline support may also need to know so they'll know who to refer terminated users to when they call in. Therefore, it's only going to be a matter of time before someone leaks this info to a discussion board, either here or somewhere else.
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tmccann11 @ 6th Jan 09:52AM:
Cablevision
Not sure if this was just added, or always there, but Cablevision's OOL Acceptable Use Policy was updated yesterday and I noticed the following:
Network Management
Cablevision reserves the right to use a changing variety of reasonable network management techniques including but not limited to (i) allocating a fixed maximum amount of bandwidth to non-subscribers seeking to upload peer-to-peer files from Subscribers; (ii) utilizing STM technology to prioritize traffic during times of peak congestion; and (iii) implementing filtering and spam detection techniques to manage reliable email sources and mitigate spam. In limited instances, these techniques may affect the throughput rate at which Subscribers may send and receive data, non-subscribers' ability to establish session connections within the network (such as peer-to-peer sessions), or result in the delay of certain traffic during times of peak congestion
Again, this may have been there already, but I noticed it today.
Tom
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Neyland @ 6th Jan 09:56AM:
If you don't deny the practice when asked...
I can only assume those ISPs who have refused to go on record as not participating plan on being part of the 'project' in some form or another.
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Attack Gypsy @ 6th Jan 10:01AM:
Re: Cablevision
This has been there for years.
Cv only sends out letters to pirates saying they got caught. They don't tell RIAA/MPAA anything. They won a privacy lawsuit.
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koma3504 @ 6th Jan 10:49AM:
Wishing
Wishing someday I will be able to get verizon.
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33591094 @ 6th Jan 11:07AM:
Re: Only Verizon
Sounds like they have a bunch of extra revenue headed their way. :)
--
All trolls are equal, but A troll is more equal than others.
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jester121 @ 6th Jan 11:18AM:
Tainted "journalism"
A good example of how to mislead people by a simple word choice, without actually lying:
"ISPs Won't Admit Participation In New RIAA Plan"
With that headline, Karl has immediately implied that the ISPs are doing something shady, but just won't come clean about it. Regular readers of the news here know that Karl gets off on sticking it to big ISPs, especially where piracy issues are concerned, so he's taken this news story and spun it in such a way that it accomplishes his goals. He also creates the impression that he's smarter than everyone else and knows what's really going down, so we should listen to him on everything else.
Why not a headline like "ISPs Decline to Comment on New RIAA Plan"? Because that's a bit too nebulous and doesn't allow for editorial bias to enter the discussion.
That's actually what happened -- Verizon said "no," and the rest of the ISPs says "No Comment".
In other news, "Karl Bode Won't Admit Cheating on Taxes".
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russotto @ 6th Jan 11:23AM:
Re: Tainted "journalism"
said by jester121 :
With that headline, Karl has immediately implied that the ISPs are doing something shady, but just won't come clean about it.
Some of them ARE. Unless of course the RIAA is flat out lying, which wouldn't be unprecedented.
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Anonymous_ @ 6th Jan 11:36AM:
Have Power BOOST WITH Torrents (TWC)
just enable very basic encryption
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jmn1207 @ 6th Jan 11:45AM:
Re: Tainted "journalism"
As a consumer, I believe the ISP's are in bed with the RIAA unless they come out and claim otherwise, like Verizon has done. If you are a lobbyist or work for one of these ISP's in some capacity, perhaps your interests are better served on the side of the conglomerates and their secretive stance.
Their decision to keep silent is at least suspicious, especially considering that the RIAA has claimed it has been working closely with several large ISP's. We know Verizon is not one of them. That leaves the rest of them that refuse to talk. Karl is simply stating what is obvious to many of us.
If I want to read a story about how everything is grand and beautiful with an ISP, I can just catch a commercial or read one of their press releases. I'm not sure how you can justify this as being tainted journalism.
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cornelius785 @ 6th Jan 12:30PM:
Re: Only Verizon
like tk junk mail and pose?
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cornelius785 @ 6th Jan 12:32PM:
Re: Tainted "journalism"
what do you expect? opinion seperated from fact in an article at dslreports?
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jmn1207 @ 6th Jan 12:36PM:
Re: Tainted "journalism"
said by cornelius785 :
what do you expect? opinion seperated from fact in an article at dslreports?
That several "ISPs Won't Admit Participation In New RIAA Plan" is a fact, not an opinion. Do you see the irony in your insinuation and attack on the messenger?
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Dilligas @ 6th Jan 12:44PM:
can they??
Can they actually determine what is being sent across p2p which is legal and which is not, filenames can be changed or are they trying to just kill p2p in general? Simply there are other means and this will not affect pirates anyways, if anything just allows other avenues to be exposed to get the data across.
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Ahrenl @ 6th Jan 12:51PM:
Re: Tainted "journalism"
Please, pray tell, clue us in to where you get your unbiased news?
or
If you think you're getting unbiased news, then you either agree with, or don't recognize, the bias.
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jester121 @ 6th Jan 12:57PM:
Re: Tainted "journalism"
said by Ahrenl :
Please, pray tell, clue us in to where you get your unbiased news?
I don't understand the point of the question? The point of my post is to recognize the bias and take it with a grain of salt.
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jester121 @ 6th Jan 01:05PM:
Re: Tainted "journalism"
said by jmn1207 :
As a consumer, I believe the ISP's are in bed with the RIAA unless they come out and claim otherwise, like Verizon has done. If you are a lobbyist or work for one of these ISP's in some capacity, perhaps your interests are better served on the side of the conglomerates and their secretive stance.
Nope, not a lobbyist, just a guy. Nice try with the standard BBR attack method though! Anyone who supports the big ISP is a fanboi or astro-turf specialist, right?
said by jmn1207 :
Their decision to keep silent is at least suspicious, especially considering that the RIAA has claimed it has been working closely with several large ISP's.
Suspicious to a suspicious mind maybe, when you're closed minded enough to assume that every ISP is evil (except Verizon somtimes, maybe). said by jmn1207 :
We know Verizon is not one of them.
No you don't. You know that someone at Verizon denies that they are participating. See, that's what the actual NEWS story is. "So-and-so said this, while those guys said 'no comment'". That's it. said by jmn1207 :
That leaves the rest of them that refuse to talk. Karl is simply stating what is obvious to many of us.
No, Karl is stating his opinion. Whether or not that's obvious is subjective, and remains to be seen.
Honestly I don't care one way or another about the issue at hand, it just struck me as even more flagrant that usual when I was reading the summary this morning. We'll probably find out later that the other ISPs are talking to the RIAA, and probably are planning to suspend users, and we'll have something for Karl to rant about for 6 months or so.
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JazzJRabbit @ 6th Jan 01:25PM:
Re: can they??
File sharing works off hashes, not filenames. Of course that hasn't stopped MPAA sending copyright notices based on filenames but you can't really expect them to be fully competent, do you?
Potentially if you're not using forced encryption ISP can know if what you're sharing is legal or not. It would require packet inspection on ISP end as well as list of hashes of known copyrighted files floating on network, so it takes some effort, but it is possible. Same with RIAA/MPAA who are using services of BayTSP and MediaSentry, unless you're blocking them with peerguardian, they will know if you're sharing anything illegal.
If you want to stay anonymous your best bet is to only use software that uses encryption and use peerguardian with regularly updated blocklists. And even then you still risk being caught if peerguardian blocklists are faulty.
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JazzJRabbit @ 6th Jan 01:28PM:
Re: Wishing
No kidding. I wish FIOS would come to IL. Looks like Verizon had some plans in 2006 and as late as 2008, but it seems the project was abandoned. If they did deploy FIOS here I'd switch the day it was available.
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anon @ 6th Jan 01:32PM:
suing spree
This whole idear is a bad one for any isp because if they have a way of knowing what is going across their netowrks then suddenly someone can hold them liable for what is going across their networks. Why sue the user when a copyright owner could sue the isp instead? Just about any isp has a lot more money than the average end user and just about any lawyer will make a lot of money from suing an isp since they now have a legitimate reason for doing it and the isp provides all the evidence needed to prove their guilt.
This is incredibly stupid and as anyone knows america is the land of the lawyers so it's only a matter of time before this whole mess backfires.
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jmn1207 @ 6th Jan 02:29PM:
Re: Tainted "journalism"
said by jester121 :
Nice try with the standard BBR attack method though!
All I have is the BBR News Fan Attack Protocol pamphlet to go by.
said by jester121 :said by jmn1207 :
We know Verizon is not one of them.
No you don't. You know that someone at Verizon denies that they are participating. See, that's what the actual NEWS story is. "So-and-so said this, while those guys said 'no comment'". That's it.
Ellen Yu, a public relations employee working at Verizon, gave an official statement that they were not participating. You are doing exactly what you accuse Karl of doing in your rant.
said by jester121 :said by jmn1207 :
That leaves the rest of them that refuse to talk. Karl is simply stating what is obvious to many of us.
No, Karl is stating his opinion. Whether or not that's obvious is subjective, and remains to be seen.
I read facts stating that ISP's refuse to comment while Verizon adamantly denies their cooperation, followed by the editor asking some rhetorical questions and some paragraphs using "Potentially" and "Perhaps". It's clear to me when the story strays into an opinion piece. I can separate the facts from the opinion with little difficulty. This is entertainment. Topical news subjects are used to try and generate user participation in discussions.
said by jester121 :
Honestly I don't care one way or another about the issue at hand...
Yes, that much is clear.
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KrK @ 6th Jan 03:47PM:
Re: Tainted "journalism"
said by jester121 :
"ISPs Won't Admit Participation In New RIAA Plan"
With that headline, Karl has immediately implied that the ISPs are doing something shady, but just won't come clean about it.
Which is exactly correct. Helping the RIAA is definitely shady as hell, and not admitting it is not coming clean!
Regular readers of the news here know that Karl gets off on sticking it to big ISPs, especially where piracy issues are concerned, so he's taken this news story and spun it in such a way that it accomplishes his goals.
And there's this quite vocal other camp, who seem determined to bend over backwards to defend these companies--- NO MATTER WHAT THEY DO WRONG or how they screw over their customers. You have to wonder about their motives.He also creates the impression that he's smarter than everyone else and knows what's really going down, so we should listen to him on everything else.
That sounds more like a personal issue to me? Smarter? Hardly. More well informed then 99% of the public? I'd say that's fair.
In other news, "Karl Bode Won't Admit Cheating on Taxes".
Got any sources, evidence, or proof either way? At least Karl's article did....
--
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." -- Benito Mussolini
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RARPSL @ 6th Jan 04:22PM:
Re: Tainted "journalism"
said by jmn1207 :said by cornelius785 :
what do you expect? opinion seperated from fact in an article at dslreports?
That several "ISPs Won't Admit Participation In New RIAA Plan" is a fact, not an opinion. Do you see the irony in your insinuation and attack on the messenger?
Even better is to summarize the situation as "ISPs other than Verizon refuse to deny Participation In New RIAA Plan" since this is what the article says. The same set of facts can be presented/viewed in a number of ways without omitting anything in your statement of the situation. Part of it is how you want to "spin" the facts (ignoring that spinning often requires suppression of facts that rebut your intended slant).
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jmn1207 @ 6th Jan 04:57PM:
Re: Tainted "journalism"
I just don't see how any ISP's silence can come across as anything positive. How do you spin it to make the ISP's look consumer-centric?
OJ won't admit that he murdered Nicole.
OJ refuses to deny his involvement in Nicole's murder.
OJ remains tight-lipped while Nicole remains headless.
I can't make it work so that OJ's silence does anything other than bring suspicion upon himself.
If OJ officially stated that he did not murder Nicole, while it may not prove his innocence, if reported factually, it could not be implied or interpreted that he was guilty.
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jester121 @ 6th Jan 05:39PM:
Re: Tainted "journalism"
said by jmn1207 :
Ellen Yu, a public relations employee working at Verizon, gave an official statement that they were not participating. You are doing exactly what you accuse Karl of doing in your rant.
Duh? :uhh:
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fatness @ 6th Jan 06:45PM:
Re: Tainted "journalism"
said by jester121 :
That's actually what happened -- Verizon said "no," and the rest of the ISPs says "No Comment".
It's nice to see such a strong defense of hiding things from the public.
Richard Nixon never admitted being a crook. It's so biased for people to think otherwise.
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TKJunkMail @ 6th Jan 08:37PM:
Re: Tainted "journalism"
said by jester121 :
A good example of how to mislead people by a simple word choice, without actually lying:
"ISPs Won't Admit Participation In New RIAA Plan"
With that headline, Karl has immediately implied that the ISPs are doing something shady, but just won't come clean about it. Regular readers of the news here know that Karl gets off on sticking it to big ISPs, especially where piracy issues are concerned, so he's taken this news story and spun it in such a way that it accomplishes his goals. He also creates the impression that he's smarter than everyone else and knows what's really going down, so we should listen to him on everything else.
Why not a headline like "ISPs Decline to Comment on New RIAA Plan"? Because that's a bit too nebulous and doesn't allow for editorial bias to enter the discussion.
That's actually what happened -- Verizon said "no," and the rest of the ISPs says "No Comment".
In other news, "Karl Bode Won't Admit Cheating on Taxes".
Much of the "NEWS" here has an underlying editorial agenda. It is an editorial page and not an AP newswire.
In defense of Karl, however, he has never claimed to be purveying TRUTH - but only his perception of it as seen thru his own anti-corporate filter.
--
My BLOG .. .. Internet News .. .. My Web Page
Ask yourself one question: 'Do I feel lucky?' Well, do ya punk?
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anon @ 7th Jan 02:58AM:
Adelphia did this with its three attempts.
And then banned.
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batterup @ 7th Jan 03:02AM:
TPC is one your side.
Verizon has fought the Nazi tactics from the beginning and you people want them to supply free porn. TPC is old skool and deserves your support.
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wispalord @ 7th Jan 05:20AM:
lol
if they take away p2p i have no more use for the internet i have my cell phone for IM.
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dentman42 @ 7th Jan 04:27PM:
Common carrier?
If the ISPs participate, clearly they ARE taking responsibility for what passes through their networks. Therefore, the common carrier protections no longer apply and they are responsible for EVERYTHING that passes through their networks.
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ctceo @ 8th Jan 02:10AM:
Would You?
Would you fess up with the maf..AHEM... I mean RIAA watching over your shoulder, with the full legal backing of the government?
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joeMI @ 12th Jan 06:24PM:
legal?
how can this be legal for the ISP to look at your traffic stream and interpret it?
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anon @ 13th Jan 02:50PM:
It's their world...we only use it...
It's their circuits. We are only renting access. Department stores have cameras in their parking lots and no matter what anyone tells you, the landlord has full access to your premisies at all times. Of course it's all for your own security ;)
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digitalfreak @ 29th Jan 10:34PM:
Re: Tainted "journalism"
said by TKJunkMail :said by jester121 :
A good example of how to mislead people by a simple word choice, without actually lying:
"ISPs Won't Admit Participation In New RIAA Plan"
With that headline, Karl has immediately implied that the ISPs are doing something shady, but just won't come clean about it. Regular readers of the news here know that Karl gets off on sticking it to big ISPs, especially where piracy issues are concerned, so he's taken this news story and spun it in such a way that it accomplishes his goals. He also creates the impression that he's smarter than everyone else and knows what's really going down, so we should listen to him on everything else.
Why not a headline like "ISPs Decline to Comment on New RIAA Plan"? Because that's a bit too nebulous and doesn't allow for editorial bias to enter the discussion.
That's actually what happened -- Verizon said "no," and the rest of the ISPs says "No Comment".
In other news, "Karl Bode Won't Admit Cheating on Taxes".
Much of the
"NEWS" here has an underlying editorial agenda. It is an editorial page and not an AP newswire.
In defense of Karl, however, he has never claimed to be purveying
TRUTH - but only his perception of it as seen thru his own anti-corporate filter.
Everything you post, claiming as TRUTH, is your perception as seen thru your pro-corporate filter.
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