Mandatory Smartphone Data Plans Seem Hypocritical - If paying for what you use 'is only fair,' why $30 mandatory data plans?
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Mandatory Smartphone Data Plans Seem Hypocritical If paying for what you use 'is only fair,' why $30 mandatory data plans? 06:29PM Wednesday Oct 21 2009 by Karl Bode tags: prices · business · alternatives · bandwidth · Op/Ed · consumers · wireless
Sure, heavy wireless broadband users might call it pure madness, but there are some smartphone users out there who like to ditch the 3G data plan and simply use free Wi-Fi when it's available. To stop this utter insanity (well ok, to further bloat already plump revenues), Sprint, T-Mobile, Verizon Wireless and AT&T have decided to make $30 data plans for smart phones mandatory. AT&T only recently joined this party. The Consumerist noting how AT&T's deadline for ditching your 3G plan has been extended to October 31, but you'll need the following: • You must have added data service before September 6th. Obvious. • After making the change, you must have all data service shut off for your smartphone. • No more a la carte options, kids. If you want pay-per-use data on a smartphone, you need to build a time machine and travel back to September 6th. • iPhones aren't eligible. Again, granted: most smartphone users prefer having uniform 3G access wherever they travel. But some wacky users simply wanted to save at least $30 a month. Taking that option away from consumers must be the kind of wireless industry pro-consumer awesomeness executives speak of so frequently. Here we have customers not only being forced to sign up for a 3G plan, but they're not even being allowed to only pay for what they use. It's important that you notice something here. AT&T, like all mega-carriers, proclaims to love per-byte billing -- and consistently talks about how charging consumers only for the bandwidth they use is the fair thing to do. Yet here you have AT&T preventing light data users from actually paying a reasonable price for what they use (namely, little to no bandwidth). That's because the industry's version of metered billing has nothing to do with fairness. In a pure and fair per-byte billing model, you'd have the heaviest users paying more for bandwidth, and the lightest users frequently paying virtually nothing. The problem? Light users make up the vast majority of most ISP's consumers, making it an unattractive business model for companies used to making billions from services like SMS that cost virtually nothing to provide. AT&T would still probably be profitable under a pure per byte model with reasonable per GB overages. Just not profitable enough for the company's investors. In reality, the industry's ideal version of per-byte "fairness" involves charging millions of users for more than their fair share, and socking heavy users with steep overages. Carriers get to have their cake and eat it too, essentially pushing for prices that are higher than under the existing flat rate pricing model, while doing it under the pretense of "fairness." Keep mandatory $30 smartphone data plans in mind the next time you hear an incumbent ISP executive proudly proclaim that paying for what you use " is only fair." Related:- Hey NY Times: Broadband Coverage Gaps Are Not 'Hooey'
- Cable: Let Us Experiment With Pricing Or The Internet Explodes
- Zer01 Mobile: $70 Unlimited Voice, SMS Data
- Comcast Wireless Broadband Hits Atlanta
- Verizon's New Wireless Pricing Is An Insult
- Per-Byte Broadband Billing Is Neither Necessary Nor Inevitable
- ISPs Don't Really Want Per Byte Billing
- Verizon Again Hints At Metered Billing
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divefox @ 21st Oct 06:16PM:
Those fellas at the freakin' FCC
I hope the FCC shoves their foot up AT&T's rear end. "Pick one: Net Neutrality or Fair Billing."
Hah, not in this lifetime.
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longstreet @ 21st Oct 06:18PM:
hmm
Well, in light of this, I suggest those people that take issue with this decision find another carrier.
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iansltx @ 21st Oct 06:21PM:
Re: hmm
Verizon requires data plans on anything but dumb-phones now. Sprint requires a data plan on thier smartphones. T-Mobile requires a data plan on smartphones.
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TKJunkMail @ 21st Oct 06:21PM:
Question? - for subsidized smartphones or all smartphones
Do these rules apply to all smartphones - even those bought at full price and not part of a subsidized 2 yr plan?
For subsidized smartphones I can see the telcos point of requiring a data plan. But if you went and bought an unsubsidized smartphone somewhere for $800, I think you should be able to buy whatever services you want at a la carte rates.
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longstreet @ 21st Oct 06:26PM:
Re: hmm
You can find a smaller carrier that doesn't force the data option, or you can get a different phone.
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Karl Bode @ 21st Oct 06:26PM:
Re: hmm
Yes, so many choices. ;)
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longstreet @ 21st Oct 06:27PM:
Re: hmm
As they like to say in some places . . .'the choice is yours'
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b1gdr3 @ 21st Oct 06:28PM:
I have an iPhone...
and I don't appreciate that text messaging isn't included in this mandatory $30 data plan. It's not like it's costing ATT loads to process these messages.
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KrK @ 21st Oct 06:29PM:
Market fail. Regulation is only way
When there simply isn't enough competition to provide consumers with choices they want to make, it's only fair to come in and control the carriers via Government regulations.
And they have only themselves to blame. Abuse and false claims of "The market will self regulate" leads itself to the outcome the carriers least want. Greed is not good. Not for consumers, and not for the long term profitability of the carriers.
I will not cry for them one bit.
--
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KrK @ 21st Oct 06:29PM:
Re: Question? - for subsidized smartphones or all smartphones
Looks like all Smartphones, period.
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Karl Bode @ 21st Oct 06:30PM:
Re: hmm
Clearly.
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anon @ 21st Oct 06:30PM:
Re: hmm
I already switched my phone service to a little juke and purchased an ipod touch for the wifi... I even blocked my data so i dont get mb charges just to look at the verizon online store!!! Never had a problem with verizon service or customer service but not staying when contract over.
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dwhayden @ 21st Oct 06:35PM:
Re: Question? - for subsidized smartphones or all smartphones
An AT&T person told me I can cancel the data plan at any time since I'm grandfathered in, but if I were to signup with it again I'd be forced into keeping it "FOREVER". I said what if I "Downgrade" to a dumb phone (wink wink). I could then cancel the plan? She said, "Yes". I said I can then put my SIM back in my smartphone, and be without data. She said, "Well, I guess you could do that".
This seems so ridiculous. I can understand why they would force someone who is buying a subsidized phone, but it doesn't make sense to force someone into a service that brings their own equipment. The AT&T person said they do it for my protection to avoid the accidental high fees of pay per use. Again that is stupid, because if that was true they would just opt people out of data instead.
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DaveNJ @ 21st Oct 06:36PM:
Could i not have a voice plan ?
If this is mandatory, couldn't i just use Google voice, or whoever, and not have voice plan ?
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IT Guy @ 21st Oct 06:37PM:
Re: hmm
said by iansltx :
T-Mobile requires a data plan on smartphones.
That's not exactly true. I had bought a G1 off of eBay and while I was required to use T-mobile's data network to register my device with Google's server, the G1 support tech. told me I was not required to have a data plan, although it was recommended since many of the functions of the phone relied to some extent on having a data plan to update and if an update caused my phone to request that I register the phone to Google's provisioning server, I would have to call into T-Mo's G1 support dept. and have them temporarily add my phone to the data plan again. Regardless, I shelled out the extra cash for the plan, but in retrospect and after several factors including my data usage being very low vs. my Wifi usage and being stuck on EDGE with no idea when 3g will be available in my area, I'm having second thoughts about shelling out that extra money every month that could be better spent on other bills..
Edit: This was back in March, so I know it's quite possible that policy has changed.
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nonymous @ 21st Oct 06:45PM:
Yep, and $30 is only the start
For $30 you get almost no data then a per unit charge for any overages. So do anything besides read a few emails and the $30 easily turns into more. Think of the CEOs golden parachute. The USA is only number one in overpaying money grubbing CEOs with no real ideas except how to make their paychecks bigger.
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longstreet @ 21st Oct 06:48PM:
hmm
If they still offered al la carte services, i'm sure we'd hear 'oh these overages are such bs! it should be free'
At some point, you have to decide whether or not the service they provide is worth the money they are asking for. If it's not worth it to everyone, then everyone would call up and cancel
Obviously, Apple is enjoying record stock prices and iPhone sales, I don't see many people doing that.
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Mr Matt @ 21st Oct 06:51PM:
Did wireless providers management contract the Swine Flu?
:o Did the upper management of the wireless service providers contracted the Swine Flu or did some other force turn them into pigs? I wonder if the wireless service providers will refund the purchase price of smart phones to those customers that purchased smart phones and do not want to have the cost of wireless data plans shoved up their butts. It looks like a change in terms of service to me.
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longstreet @ 21st Oct 06:58PM:
Re: Did wireless providers management contract the Swine Flu?
I wouldn't count on it, those who purchased a subsidized phone also signed a contract that basically let's AT&T do whatever they want.
I have 2 iPhones, so i'm at nearly $150 + a month.
If I go to any other large provider and nearly any other smartphone, it's the same price.
I'll ride my contract out another 4 months and go with a smaller, local company that offers basic service and keep my wifi.
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iansltx @ 21st Oct 07:04PM:
Re: hmm
I need a national carrier (school is 900 mi away from home) and want a carrier that has a decent network.
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NOCMan @ 21st Oct 07:05PM:
Doing a Study
I have seen family bills and my own for 9 iphones and our average data usage is about 350megs a month. I find it bull that we have to pay 40 dollars a month when were not using any more than the 30 dollar plans are getting.
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batterup @ 21st Oct 07:05PM:
This is the way you people wanted it.
Ma Bell is dead and yet the people bitch.
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Zoder @ 21st Oct 07:05PM:
Re: Question? - for subsidized smartphones or all smartphones
said by dwhayden :
The AT&T person said they do it for my protection to avoid the accidental high fees of pay per use. Again that is stupid, because if that was true they would just opt people out of data instead.
If that was their real concern they could cut you off after a set amount of overages kicks in or allow customers to set caps.
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bigjoesmith @ 21st Oct 07:06PM:
Data plans not necessary for everyone.
No dataplan on my smartphone. I run a lot of apps on it, I do my media on it, and I look for wifi when I need net access. When I'm overseas, I use VoIP over wifi to make calls. The data plans are not worth it to me.
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Poetique @ 21st Oct 07:11PM:
Re: Yep, and $30 is only6 the start
Basically if you want to sidestep and not have to deal with this, start buying your own phones.
I can't recall the last time I owned an AT&T (or any other vendor's) phone, nor can I recall the last time they had one that interested me, so I'm not too concerned with the new policy, although I do think it is completely and utter bullshit.
Fortunately vendors tend to stay lightyears behind any of the devices I find myself buying. My last AT&T device was a Razr V3, and this is only about a month after they became popular, lol.
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Gbcue @ 21st Oct 07:21PM:
Re: Could i not have a voice plan ?
said by DaveNJ :
If this is mandatory, couldn't i just use Google voice, or whoever, and not have voice plan ?
That's not how GV works.
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Gbcue @ 21st Oct 07:22PM:
Re: I have an iPhone...
said by b1gdr3 :
and I don't appreciate that text messaging isn't included in this mandatory $30 data plan. It's not like it's costing ATT loads to process these messages.
Messages are included in my $24.99 data plan from T-Mobile. 400 messages. With the $34.99 plan, you get unlimited messages.
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Tails @ 21st Oct 07:22PM:
These are my thoughts and experiences thus far...
My sprint bill is right at $80 atm, of course that doesn't come with unlimited voice minutes, but I can call anybody's mobile number on any carrier and the minutes are free for that, provided that I'm doing this in the sprint network, which surprisingly seems to be a lot better than verizon's network. My gf has verizon, and I constantly compare my signal to hers, and I get better service out in the sticks than she does. Not only that, but my browsing speeds are way faster than what I was getting on verizon's network.
I have to say, I'm impressed with Sprint's performance thus far. I haven't had to really call customer service, and from what many say here, Sprint's customer service is not great. Yet, at the same time, it seems like billing isn't run by a bunch of monkeys either. This month's bill is correct; Verizon didn't even get my bill straight the first month. On top of that, I have called customer service about questions regarding the palm pre, and the technician I spoke with was very nice, and honest about sprint's network. She knew that Verizon's coverage was better in other parts of the states, and she didn't deny it at all, but the pricing is right, and some people really underestimate Sprint's network in terms of coverage. On top of that, the csr I spoke with before I spoke with the technician didn't try to sell anything to me; she was polite, and didn't badmouth other carriers like I've witnessed in Verizon stores.
Not only that, but Sprint has roaming agreements with Verizon. Big deal that you roam on 1x, but at least you still have voice services. Wifi is also available at many locations, so if you are roaming, then if you have a wifi-capable phone (which I do), then I can access wifi.
PS: Sprint does offer unlimited data for the phone. The only service that's capped is the data card. The technician I spoke with said that Sprint's 5 gigabyte cap is a softcap; I can tell you now, I haven't even gotten close to this cap on my phone, let alone if I decide to tether, unless I start downloading large files.
I do agree with this article though. It would be nice if I had the option to pay per gigabyte, but is that really going to happen?
How do I go about letting the higher ups know about how I feel in terms of paying by the byte? I'm sure it would be a heck of a lot cheaper if this were to happen.
--
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bender @ 21st Oct 07:34PM:
Re: hmm
said by Karl Bode :
Yes, so many choices. ;)
especially with verizon. there is just sooooo much crap to choose from
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broccoli @ 21st Oct 07:34PM:
Re: hmm
said by iansltx :
T-Mobile requires a data plan on smartphones.
No.
I have 3 WinMo phones (only one was bought from T-Mobile, and without a contract) and one S60 phone (bought while vacationing in Asia), and 2 lines with T-Mobile, only one of which has a data plan. If I attempt to use GPRS/EDGE/3G on the line with no data plan, I am prompted to subscribe to a data plan first, but I can still connect to WiFi APs. I have never been forced to get a data plan.
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bender @ 21st Oct 07:36PM:
Re: hmm
i'm in a 3g area and i have a g1. i can't imagine not having the data plan. when I am at home I use the wifi (its just faster), but when i'm out i'm on 3g and it works great. I'm not sure what a heavy user is for mobile data, but I use about 400mb a month on the g1. honestly cannot imagine doing much more than that with the limited battery on this beast.
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en102 @ 21st Oct 07:37PM:
Re: Could i not have a voice plan ?
That's how Skype Mobile works :D
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bender @ 21st Oct 07:38PM:
Re: I have an iPhone...
said by Gbcue :said by b1gdr3 :
and I don't appreciate that text messaging isn't included in this mandatory $30 data plan. It's not like it's costing ATT loads to process these messages.
Messages are included in my $24.99 data plan from T-Mobile. 400 messages. With the $34.99 plan, you get unlimited messages.
wtf? the unlimited plan is $35/month now!? i thought it was $30/month
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en102 @ 21st Oct 07:40PM:
Re: hmm
There are a couple of logical pieces that nobody has mentioned.
1. You can use an old 'dumb phone' (or purchase a gophone, etc). And use it
2. When you want to use data, add standard 'data', and use your PDA phone again.
There is no 'contract' on data, and you can easily swap out phones.
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bender @ 21st Oct 07:42PM:
Re: Did wireless providers management contract the Swine Flu?
uhhh? how many minutes do you have?
i have 2 g1's and i barely pay over $115/month.
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bender @ 21st Oct 07:43PM:
Re: This is the way you people wanted it.
not really. i think ma bell has been here all along. she's just coming back with a vengence
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a333 @ 21st Oct 07:51PM:
Re: Yep, and $30 is only6 the start
said by nonymous :
For $30 you get almost no data then a per unit charge for any overages. So do anything besides read a few emails and the $30 easily turns int more. Think of the CEOs golden parachute. The USA is only number one in overpaying money grubbing CEOs with no real ideas except how to make their paychecks bigger.
Huh? That's new, last time I checked, $30 covers unlimited data (5 Gig softcap of course) on all PDA's/Smartphones that are AT&T-branded or subsidized. If you have no $30 plan and you signed up before September 6th, then of course it's the $2/MB pay-per-use data plan. And considering most people use it on their phones only, I don't see how you'd rack up anywhere near 5 GB, even with occasional tethering.
By the way, does this $30 crap apply to non-subsidized smartphones/feature phones? I.e. I have a $10/month deal on Data Unlimited, since I'm on a "dumb" Sony Ericsson phone. If I swapped SIM cards to say a Nokia N900 or N97, would AT&T detect the IMEI and switch me to the $30 plan?
a333
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Gbcue @ 21st Oct 07:51PM:
Re: I have an iPhone...
said by bender :said by Gbcue :said by b1gdr3 :
and I don't appreciate that text messaging isn't included in this mandatory $30 data plan. It's not like it's costing ATT loads to process these messages.
Messages are included in my $24.99 data plan from T-Mobile. 400 messages. With the $34.99 plan, you get unlimited messages.
wtf? the unlimited plan is $35/month now!? i thought it was $30/month
It was always $35.
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Gbcue @ 21st Oct 07:52PM:
Re: Could i not have a voice plan ?
said by en102 :
That's how Skype Mobile works :D
Well, he's talking about GV.
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bender @ 21st Oct 07:55PM:
Re: I have an iPhone...
is the difference in price 50 txt messages? or am i doing my math wrong? (assuming that it is $0.20/sms)
$24.99+(50*.2)=$34.99
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Gbcue @ 21st Oct 07:57PM:
Re: I have an iPhone...
said by bender :
is the difference in price 50 txt messages? or am i doing my math wrong? (assuming that it is $0.20/sms)
$24.99+(50*.2)=$34.99
Does it matter?
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bender @ 21st Oct 08:01PM:
Re: I have an iPhone...
if my math is right then if you send more than 450 txt messages then a person should upgrade to the higher plan to not over pay
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iansltx @ 21st Oct 08:03PM:
Re: hmm
You're probably grandfathered, though I don't doubt it's the case.
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iansltx @ 21st Oct 08:10PM:
Re: hmm
If you're on CDMA though, the carrier can disallow an ESN swap unless a plan is changed to that supports data for that particular device. On Sprint that means an Everything or Everything Data family plan. It's not the contract that bothers me, it's switching plans from the one I have now.
Yes, I'm on SERO, but I'd be willing to pay full price for a Samsung Moment if I could get it on my plan. By full price I mean $450...I'd still be saving money vs. giving up my plan and paying $180 for the device upfront.
I know some people may not share my feelings, but I feel that if someone buys their phone outright (no subsidy) they should be able to use it on whatever plan they want, though the carrier can reserve the right to say "you can't do that" when a user attempts to use a non-smartphone data package to power a smartphone.
The thing is, my $30 SERO plan has full data. I know this because it's powering my HTC Touch Pro right now. Just can't get an Anroid phone as far as I can tell...I have to upgrade my plan otherwise and there's no going back.
What's really funny is if I switch plans to an Everything plan, at $60 per month after a 15% discount from my school, Sprint is at that point obligated to let me upgrade at new customer price to a new phone each year, rather than every two years. At that point I'll be paying only $20 per month more than I am right now, so they aren't really getting any more profit than my po-dunk SERO plan, especially if I was willing to forego my upgrade credit to keep my plan (I am).
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60529262 @ 21st Oct 08:41PM:
Re: hmm
See, that's the problem. People will bitch and bitch and bitch and bitch about it but nobody wants to put their money where their bitching mouth is by not purchasing the device or the service in the first place.
As long as the money flows in the carriers will continue to fleece the suckers lining up to pay, and they'll continue laughing at the little whiners...all the way to the bank.
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Telco_Tech @ 21st Oct 08:41PM:
Re: hmm
said by iansltx :
The thing is, my $30 SERO plan has full data. I know this because it's powering my HTC Touch Pro right now. Just can't get an Anroid phone as far as I can tell...I have to upgrade my plan otherwise and there's no going back.
I feel ya amigo. I recently let go of my SERO plan which was up for renewal because no decent phones are going to be allowed on that plan anymore - the Touch Pro2 was the last, and that phone was a huge letdown in my humble opinion (returned mine within two days). Yes, I'm paying double what I was with my beloved SERO plan, but at least Sprint made the transition easier by instituting the "Any Mobile, Anytime" perk for free, and Sprint Navigation has also been much more useful than I thought it'd be. So, I get those two features plus the ability to run any phone I want now, and I'm STILL saving a fortune compared to the schmucks that throw their money away on AT&T and VZ.
Just saying, you can either have SERO and hold on to your aging Touch Pro, or you can pony up the extra cash and have cool new phones - you can't have both.
- Tate
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60529262 @ 21st Oct 08:43PM:
Re: This is the way you people wanted it.
Hey, this is what the free market looks like...charge what the customers will pay. They're all still paying. Isn't that what it was all about?
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iansltx @ 21st Oct 08:45PM:
Re: hmm
Unfortunately true. I have SprintNav right now, hence the fac that i'd only be paying $20 more for service.
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IT Guy @ 21st Oct 08:56PM:
Re: hmm
said by bender :
i'm in a 3g area and i have a g1. i can't imagine not having the data plan. when I am at home I use the wifi (its just faster), but when i'm out i'm on 3g and it works great. I'm not sure what a heavy user is for mobile data, but I use about 400mb a month on the g1. honestly cannot imagine doing much more than that with the limited battery on this beast.
Yeah, I gotta say it's been a bit of a let-down, especially considering how much more this tacks on to my bill. EDGE is practically useless. El Paso just had 3g rolled out and I had my fingers crossed that they would extend it up my way, but it hasn't happened yet. What really burns me is that my Gmail app doesn't ever display new messages. I've rooted the phone and I'm using the JesusFreak mod, but I was having that problem before rooting. Also, it never displays images in messages. My buddy has a G1 and has the same problem with his gmail. Pretty lame!
--
Don't worry, scrote. There are plenty of 'tards out there living really kick-ass lives.
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bender @ 21st Oct 09:05PM:
Re: hmm
all i can say is keep hounding customer service.. but of course, be civil. they make notes of complaints and, if they get enough, will fix the problem.
excellent pic by the way! great movie!
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bjbrock @ 21st Oct 09:15PM:
Two options...
One is either nationalize the broadband infrastructure, which is the least attractive, or divest the infrastructure operations from the rest of the operations provided by phone and data providers.
Every problem we have today regarding net neutrality and unfair monopolistic practices is facilitated by the fact that infrastructure service providers are also providing services that use this infrastructure. This is becoming the biggest customer abusive racket that has ever come down the pike.
The infrastructure needs to be completely separated from all services that use it. Things are only going to get worse exponentially. This change needs to be legislated and fast. The whole network neutrality issue would immediately go away. The infrastructure could still be provided under a competitive market. Actual ownership would not change so those that invested in the infrastructure would still own it.
This is the only way this issue can be solved in an equitable and completely competitive manner.
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k1ll3rdr4g0n @ 21st Oct 09:27PM:
Re: Question? - for subsidized smartphones or all smartphones
said by dwhayden :
An AT&T person told me I can cancel the data plan at any time since I'm grandfathered in, but if I were to signup with it again I'd be forced into keeping it "FOREVER". I said what if I "Downgrade" to a dumb phone (wink wink). I could then cancel the plan? She said, "Yes". I said I can then put my SIM back in my smartphone, and be without data. She said, "Well, I guess you could do that".
This seems so ridiculous. I can understand why they would force someone who is buying a subsidized phone, but it doesn't make sense to force someone into a service that brings their own equipment. The AT&T person said they do it for my protection to avoid the accidental high fees of pay per use. Again that is stupid, because if that was true they would just opt people out of data instead.
Wither it is ridiculous or not, I have no opinion on the subject as I pay $30/month for unlimited already so it doesn't affect me.
BUT, an important note to make -
You CAN "downgrade" to a dumb phone, get the dataplan, and pop your sim card into your WM device and everything will work fine - and you are only paying $15/month instead of $30. I have heard NUMEROUS stories of people who have done that and nothing happens to them or their account. However, AT&T claims they have the right, again they CLAIM, to backcharge you if they found out you did this. I think the only people that they would backcharge are those IDIOTS who think that they can bittorrent on the "dumb phone" internet plan.
I do not do this, nor do I condone it. But, it is just one of the many workarounds that make this not sensible - as I am sure many people would do the "workaround".
But, then again, if you are purchasing a smartphone to not use internet activity, what did you buy it for? Buy a pocket pc if you need a PDA without internet access.
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compton @ 21st Oct 09:42PM:
Re: hmm
said by iansltx :
Sprint requires a data plan on thier smartphones. T-Mobile requires a data plan on smartphones.
I am not so sure about that. Maybe on some smart phones. I bought T -Mobile Dash earlier this year and even though it is a smart phone I didn't have to get a data plan. Maybe they changed their policy since then.
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music4praise @ 21st Oct 10:40PM:
Re: Could i not have a voice plan ?
Verizon does have a data only plan (no minutes and no sms) for smartphones. It is $49.99/month.
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Thaler @ 21st Oct 11:04PM:
Am I the only one OK with this?
After reading on DSLR on the umpteen customers who roam the world, racking up the roaming data charges, and then plead ignorance when the bill comes, am I not the only one surprised by this move? Sure, it gets the wireless carriers a pretty penny, but on the other hand, how much of it is them to avoid the mass outcry when those that opt-out of data plan perform the inevitable "OOPS!"?
I can guarantee you, that if wireless carriers were to allow their data-intensive phones (iPhone, Pre, etc.) to run these phones without data plans, many people who shouldn't be opting out would...and then raise high holy hell when their bills skyrocket up another few hundred when they "accidentally" leave on the data services? I can guarantee you, even after only working a few years as tech support, there would be an even larger influx of people paying outrageous overcharges than there is today.
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QLR @ 21st Oct 11:05PM:
I would like some flexibility...
I had data plans on VZW for 20 months (I had a optional data plan on the Q and the mandated plan on the BlackBerry). I didn't mind paying for it since I was using it a lot. However, as time wore on, I was using the data less but I was stuck with the $24/month fee. Then, it hit me! I downgraded phones (since I couldn't kill the BB data) with the early/annual upgrade program. I eventually got an unlocked and unbranded Nokia E63 and placed a AT&T PAYG SIM in it. Although I only get 100 MB for $20 (lasting for 30 days), it is enough for my light usage. I just carry over my remaining data by buying 1MB for $5. Lousy proposition, but it works :(
Verizon does have a mandated data plan for their most recent smartphones, all BlackBerry phones, and the dumbphone Samsung Rogue; however, it is optional for smartphones that launched before November 18, 2008. VZW does sell 2 older smartphones that don't require the unlimited data plan: the Touch XV6900 and the SMT5800. Users of those phones can select a pay per KB option or call in to block data.
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djrobx @ 21st Oct 11:49PM:
Re: hmm
said by en102 :
There are a couple of logical pieces that nobody has mentioned.
1. You can use an old 'dumb phone' (or purchase a gophone, etc). And use it
2. When you want to use data, add standard 'data', and use your PDA phone again.
There is no 'contract' on data, and you can easily swap out phones.
What AT&T has become good at is associating the type of phone you have by IMEI. I think they perfected this process to ensure iPhone 3G users pay $30 instead of $20 for data. If you have the "wrong" data plan they text nag you and automatically add the "correct" data plan.
They can very easily do the same for other types of phones. Check the AT&T customer website after you insert your SIM chip into a smartphone. You'll see the phone type is updated within minutes.
--
AT&T U-Hearse
Your funeral. Delivered.
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djrobx @ 21st Oct 11:51PM:
Re: Am I the only one OK with this?
You can turn off the data plan entirely. You don't have to go with pay-per-byte.
--
AT&T U-Hearse
Your funeral. Delivered.
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PGHammer @ 21st Oct 11:54PM:
Re: I would like some flexibility...
An optional plan (as opposed to the monthly data option, and this is certainly usable with Wifi-capable smartphones, such as the forthcoming Storm2) is the when-you-need-it data option at $3/day (VZW). The issue in reality is that there are few Wifi-enabled smartphones! Other than the iPhone and Storm 2, how many smartphones havve WiFi as standard fare without hacks? (The Storm 2 will be VZW's first Wifi-standard smartphone.) Given the prevalence of hotspots (either low-cost or no-cost) and the availability of legacy laptops, I have little respect (and no love) for those that insist on using a smartphone as a laptop-replacement. The very reason I have had little interest in a smartphone is because of the lack of WiFi (which is why there has been a data plan requirement). Until Wifi becomes standard on smartphones, that data-plan requirement will continue because it actually makes sense. Smartphones *invite* data usage, and if they lack WiFi (which is true of almost all of them), how else are they going to access it sans PC tethering? I like the Storm 2 (and original Storm) because it's a touch-enabled wireless phone that can sync with a PC; even better, it actually costs less than most other touch-screen phones.
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Thaler @ 22nd Oct 12:03AM:
Re: Am I the only one OK with this?
Can, and do are two different things. People will get data-hungry smartphones, say they won't ever use the data, and then forget to lock-out the feature on the phone - or just use it because (insert wireless provider here) allowed the user to shoot themselves in the foot.
I mean, what about those data transit overages when data card users take their devices overseas, download "just a few emails", and then are surprized by a few thousand dollar bill because they left the card in the computer, passively downloading service patches (or torrents to be downloaded in queue, or whatever). From what I've seen of the average American wireless user, I highly doubt that most wireless customers can self-regulate their devices enough to not use something as prevalent as a data feature on a smartphone. (No bash intended to anyone in particular, I've just seen way too many people with insane overages because they paid the minimal service fee, yet talk/download on their devices like beasts)
In short, yes, it makes money for the wireless provider, but it also prevents the media hysteria involved when some idiot doesn't know their plan coverage and gets socked for a super-high bill.
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anon @ 22nd Oct 12:24AM:
Re: I have an iPhone...
Sprint have text messaging and more with there $30 data plan. That best deal in town.
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hottboiinnc @ 22nd Oct 12:58AM:
Re: hmm
TM gives you the option to cancel your data plan.
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hottboiinnc @ 22nd Oct 01:04AM:
Re: hmm
only the BB is required from what I have seen with TM. They don't count that as a smart phone though. It's an enterprise phone according to them.
The Dash 3G to this date does NOT require a data plan but they tell you that you should get one to get the most out of the phone.
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hottboiinnc @ 22nd Oct 01:07AM:
Re: Could i not have a voice plan ?
on a BB, yes with T-Mobile. They're not required to have a voice plan.
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IDriveForFun @ 22nd Oct 01:07AM:
Madness!
I went round and round with Verizon's customer support on this a month or so ago. My wife needed a new phone, so we went looking for one she could sync with our online calendar (or even Outlook, which is also synced). First type of phone to come to mind? Smartphones, of course! I argued about the mandatory data plan and was first told that they want their users to "be able to take full advantage of the phone's capabilities." (Discovered later that this argument was bull, since in the fine print, you are not allowed to "take full advantage of the phone's capabilities". You are not allowed to use an app to connect to the internet, such as Pandora, or download large files! If they find out you are doing this, they will cut your access! Read the fine print on the so called 'unlimited' data plan, that is capped at 5 gig!) When I told them that was not what I wanted, all I needed to do was to sync calendar and contacts, they came up with the excuse that "many customers have racked up large bills, and then want to not pay for them." OK, I said, then require either a block of all data, or the data plan. Once this reasonable request was turned down, they finally just gave up and said "well, you cannot activate the newer smartphones without the data plan. Sorry 'bout your luck". I even inquired about buying a phone elsewhere and then activating it. Nope- they won't allow that, either. I finally gave up. I found out that LG's new EnV phones, the touch and the III, have a utility you can download from them (LG), that will allow you to sync with Outlook. Hopefully, more manufactures will follow suite.
If you are in the same boat I am, please contact the customer service dept. of your carrier, and argue with them about it. If enough people do this, maybe they will change their policy. Maybe I will even sprout wings, and fly to the moon! It couldn't hurt, anyway.
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QLR @ 22nd Oct 01:23AM:
Re: I would like some flexibility...
I agree with this!!! A la the VZNavigator, there is (was) an option where you can pay $2.99/day or $9.99/month. If there was some sort of a daily fee option, I would consider getting a smartphone. If any data is accessed, just bill the daily fee to the account (like the $1.99/MB charges on dumbphones)
Although the list of WiFi enabled devices are few (Ozone, Touch Pro2, Touch Diamond, Imagio), I think that the list is only going to grow.
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IDriveForFun @ 22nd Oct 01:30AM:
Re: Market fail. Regulation is only way
No, if the carriers see enough complaints, and enough people going to the smaller carriers who don't require it, they will change eventually. This trend will probably work itself into the antiquated past just as the 10 min. "emergency" plans of 1997 did.
However appealing it is at the moment, government regulation is not the answer.
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dib22 @ 22nd Oct 02:44AM:
um...
nope, no collusion here.... nope its innovative services and devices, lowest prices, highest usage levels, and most choices in the world.
*sigh*
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benc @ 22nd Oct 03:40AM:
Re: I have an iPhone...
said by bender :
if my math is right then if you send more than 450 txt messages then a person should upgrade to the higher plan to not over pay
Yes, that is true. But if you have the $25 plan, you shouldn't need all those text messages (not over 400, anyway). Why? Because then you'd have unlimited e-mail, and could use IM as much as you want. Plus, it's possible to use e-mail to send an SMS to someone.
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KrK @ 22nd Oct 03:48AM:
Re: Market fail. Regulation is only way
Yeah, switch to the smaller carriers that compete with AT&T, Verizon, Sprint, US Cellular etc.
Ok let me just think of their names.... Hmmm. Seems like they are resellers. So they are also at the mercy of the top companies.
--
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." -- Benito Mussolini
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KrK @ 22nd Oct 03:55AM:
Re: This is the way you people wanted it.
said by 60529262 :
Hey, this is what the free market looks like...charge what the customers will pay. They're all still paying. Isn't that what it was all about?
It's not the free market.
The free market assumes that there's no barriers to entry so competition will freely enter and exit the market and that keeps prices fair and service good. Too bad reality and theory don't match.
After all, if Economic idealism and reality actually matched, then we'd of all seen Communism succeed as the greatest economic system ever. Ooops. That didn't work out so well, did it.
Idealism meet reality.
--
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." -- Benito Mussolini
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fiberguy @ 22nd Oct 04:52AM:
Re: This is the way you people wanted it.
said by batterup :
Ma Bell is dead and yet the people bitch.
Is this a Macro of yours or something? I mean I know you think it's cute what you say and all, but it really lost it's charm about 10,000 times ago you posted this very line.
What you also forget is that Ma Bell was not loved.. they charged a fortune for services they provided, people HATED "ma bell" and they bitched then too... and besides, buddy, this is about cellular service and last I checked, Ma Bell never provided wireless services...
Seriously.. get off this trip.. it's old.
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dvd536 @ 22nd Oct 05:09AM:
Now a big backdoor. . . . .
For unhappy subs to jump ship from all the big boys ETF FREE!
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dvd536 @ 22nd Oct 05:11AM:
Re: hmm
said by longstreet :
Well, in light of this, I suggest those people that take issue with this decision find another carrier.
And where do you go when EVERYONE is doing the same thing?
--
When I gez aju zavateh na nalechoo more new yonooz tonigh molinigh - Ken Lee
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rahlquist @ 22nd Oct 06:48AM:
This may get you off without an etf but what about
What if your phone was subsidized and the contract included requirements you have that data plan to avoid paying the extra $450 for the phone?
I honestly hate this myself, my wife is a moderate texter and I wanted to get her something with a keyboard so we got her a pantech matrix pro, nice phone, but, she has to have the $30 a month data plan and never uses a single byte. When you add to that my own phones data plan (which does get used) and the Family talk plan we have youre looking at over $130 a month before fees and taxes. In contrast the reaminader of my bundled phone bill including 6Mbps DSL, POTS and unlimited long distance is $100... WTH?!?!?
Honestly AT&T you cant shape my bandwidth on my DSL if you want. When I am using bandwidth on my cell you are welcome to subtract that from my avalible bandwidth on my 'unlimited' DSL. Once you fix cell reception in the area of Atlanta where I work that is....
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Van @ 22nd Oct 08:09AM:
Re: hmm
People will bitch no matter what, agreed
Yet it doesn't change the fact that a lot of their bitching has merit
I use the iPhone because I use a LOT of their features daily. With that said, a lot of AT&T's practices is laughable
I am not sure why this "You aren't allowed to complain" mentality is so rampant with some
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cableties @ 22nd Oct 08:46AM:
Re: hmm
I went with a dumb phone and iPod Touch. I can talk on the phone AND surf/get email/chat...on nearest AP.
--
Splat
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bender @ 22nd Oct 09:36AM:
Re: I have an iPhone...
good point. i forgot about using IM. i also send txts over GV when/if i get close to my 400
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FastiBook @ 22nd Oct 12:20PM:
Re: hmm
My girlfriend and i do about 1 gig a month per phone on our iphones. Family plan saves like 50 bucks a month over 2 individual plans. Sorry you have limited battery. I used to worry about 3G and battery, but it just isn't an issue, as some have foolishly made a huge fuss about.
Speaking of 2G and 3G and voice vs data... Has anyone here ever heard the difference between a 2G and 3G radio conversation? The 3G is hugely a lot more data per sec.
- A
--
LETS GO METS!
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bender @ 22nd Oct 01:26PM:
Re: hmm
said by FastiBook :
The 3G is hugely a lot more data per sec.
- A
thats the idea, 3g provides faster speeds on the data half.
i have the t-mobile g1, not the iphone. the iphone has applications that are LOT more data intensive than the ones that are out so far for android. I can't remember exactly how many applications are out for iphone vs android, but i do remember that there is lot more. of course this has a lot to do with the fact that the iphone has been around for a lot longer.
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anon @ 22nd Oct 01:48PM:
Re: Market fail. Regulation is only way
While I am usually very much opposed to govt regulation of anything, I think at some point the govt needs to step in and reign in these mobile phone companies. There's only 4 real competitors and it seems like as soon as one raises their price they all do, none of them ever drop costs. So its really not free market capitalism at play. SMS messaging plans have gone up exponentially in cost but they cost the carriers basically nothing to send a message as they are piggy backed on calls. Data plans used to be $15, then $20, now they are all $30. Arent prices supposed to go down over time with new technologies?
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N10Cities @ 22nd Oct 01:29PM:
Re: hmm
Oooooh... what an insightful post. Any other bits of wisdom you want to share with us? :hmm: Hard to find another carrier when practically ALL of them do it. :uhh:
Alltel did not do it until almost right before they were gobbled up by Verizon.
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longstreet @ 22nd Oct 01:52PM:
Re: hmm
It's your choice to limit yourself to a large well known carrier. Maybe you don't realize you have more choices.
The great deals are had with smaller, local outfits.
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longstreet @ 22nd Oct 01:55PM:
Re: hmm
If you have a smartphone, you should expect to pay a premium in comparison to other cell phones.
If it's too expensive, perhaps those individuals should step down to a less expensive option.
It's like Ferrari selling their cars for $20,000 --- it'll never happen.
If people can't afford it, there always has to be something wrong with the company selling the service right?
Maybe people that can't afford it should stop trying to look like they can, downgrade and stop the QQ and get a better job.
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Van @ 22nd Oct 02:04PM:
Re: hmm
Again, I am not arguing about the issue of whether people are buying things that they can't afford. I don't disagree. If you can't afford something, don't get it
I can afford the iPhone. I can afford the plans. I think many here can do the same.
When I see people complaining about AT&T or the iPhone, I always see some, "If you don't like it, change!" which to me is their way of stating that they don't want to hear anything negative about the product....period
Which again, is a head scratcher for me because I enjoy the positive/negative banter on here....and I think most here enjoy the highs/lows given to products
As I said above, I use the iPhone/love the iPhone/will keep using the iPhone....but I don't think complaining about either something with the iPhone OR something with AT&T always warrants a "Shut up and stop using it then!" comment which seems like the norm
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60529262 @ 22nd Oct 03:24PM:
Re: hmm
said by Van :
I don't think complaining about either something with the iPhone OR something with AT&T always warrants a "Shut up and stop using it then!" comment which seems like the norm
Actually, it does. The rest of us are tired of listening to the lot of you iPhone users whining about how much you pay to use your iToy. If you are not backing up the complaints with action you sound like a spoiled six year old.
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60529262 @ 22nd Oct 03:25PM:
Re: This is the way you people wanted it.
Sorry, I thought the sarcasm was self-evident.
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60529262 @ 22nd Oct 03:27PM:
Re: This is the way you people wanted it.
Glad to see you're still alive. I thought maybe the batteries on your auto-flame had died.
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Warzau @ 22nd Oct 03:34PM:
Re: Question? - for subsidized smartphones or all smartphones
said by KrK :
Looks like all Smartphones, period.
I can confirm. I bought a E71 and guess what, I can't use the 15 dollar plan. it has to be 30 dollars. They had a blurb in the latest bill about all PDA, smartphone, widow based and of course iPhone.
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Warzau @ 22nd Oct 03:35PM:
Re: I have an iPhone...
said by b1gdr3 :
and I don't appreciate that text messaging isn't included in this mandatory $30 data plan. It's not like it's costing ATT loads to process these messages.
I asked and it's 5 dollars extra for 200 messages, wtf?! As if it cost them that much to send small kb messages.
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meister_sd @ 22nd Oct 04:06PM:
Re: hmm
Now you know why people what to clone their ESN to other phones.
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JohnInSJ @ 22nd Oct 05:41PM:
What do people want?
So, people buy 3g smart phones.
They don't get data plans
They scream when they get $200+ "casual data" bills
Phone Companies get bad press.
Fix: Flat rate data plans required for smart phones
No surprise $200 casual use bills.
Phone Companies get bad press.
Here's a crazy ass thought. Buy an iPod Touch if you don't want 3G data.
Seriously what do you want them to do? None of these converged devices make any sense at all as a dumb phone glued to a PDA with WIFI. If you want that, get a dumb phone and a PDA. It's a lot cheaper.
--
My place : »www.schettino.us
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fiberguy @ 22nd Oct 08:26PM:
Re: This is the way you people wanted it.
said by 60529262 :
Glad to see you're still alive. I thought maybe the batteries on your auto-flame had died.
Sorry to disappoint you.. troll.
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pandora @ 22nd Oct 10:01PM:
Re: Could i not have a voice plan ?
said by music4praise :
Verizon does have a data only plan (no minutes and no sms) for smartphones. It is $49.99/month.
Sprint has a data only plan (no minutes) for $30/month. :)
--
"People demand freedom of speech as a compensation for the freedom of thought which they seldom use."
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AlexNYC @ 23rd Oct 07:10PM:
Re: hmm
Kind of true, but not exactly....
AT&T has never heard of Nokia E75 or N series .... it doesn't show anything for my phones on their site and that's the way I like it. $15 unlimited data ;-)
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AlexNYC @ 23rd Oct 07:17PM:
Re: Could i not have a voice plan ?
said by Gbcue :said by DaveNJ :
If this is mandatory, couldn't i just use Google voice, or whoever, and not have voice plan ?
That's not how GV works.
Wanna bet? »www.gizmovoice.com/
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MovieLover76 @ 24th Oct 08:48AM:
Re: hmm
I use the iphone, I bought it for the data features and I don't like paying $100/month to AT&T but I know I paid for that premium to have all those features plus unlimited data.
But the point of this article is that we are premium customers, we pay a lot for our phones and per month already in order to get all these features, the phone companies want to have it both ways, they want to treat smartphone users as premium users and charge us 30/month just to have data, but at the same time they want to be able to whine and complain anytime we use more than the average amount of data.
If you are going to require everyone to have an expensive data plan, that's fine, I don't complain about my $30/month, but they are at the same time arguing that they should move to per byte billing, which is what pay-as-you-go data is, a rather expensive per byte billing model. One verizon I had a lg voyager and all I ever did with it was check my gmail through there app, I'd use maybe 2-3mb a month and pay $4-$6 which seemed ok.
What they want is obvious they want to mandate we have a data plan, charge us $30 a month to have it and then put a rediculous cap of say 100mb on it and charge us for overages.
that is there version of per byte billing and it has nothing to do with fairness, only extra profit.
btw. I don't abuse my iphone data plan, at least not in my eyes I use maybe 300mb/month. I don't think it's unreasonable to have a 5gb limit on a 3G plan at this stage, the problem is if they move to per byte billing it won't be 5gb it'll be 100mb - 250mb if even that, whatever the average user uses at the moment. the second issue is that as capacity increases and the average data usage increases they won't ever increase those caps, because the overages just equal more profit for them.
Smart Phone users should pay more, I agreee, but we also have a lot of complain about with the bs stuff the major carriers are trying to pull.
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Van @ 24th Oct 03:18PM:
Re: hmm
Have you ever posted criticism about a product? If so, why are you even stating such a thing sounding like a hypocrite?
Most people on here posting about their iPhone or their coverage are discussing legit criticism about a product they enjoy and want to see improved.
How that makes them sound like a child is beyond me. In fact, if anyone is sounding like a child, it is the person who reads that and says "No, shut up! Stop posting that!" as if that will get the person to actually stop. I heard those things said before I hit high school but since then, I only hear it online by some posters.
Are their people who won't shut up with their everyday criticisms? Of course. Then again, their are people who love the iPhone so much that anything bad said about it gets them enraged and sends them off a cliff. Then you have the iPhone haters who are just generally angry at the word "iPhone"
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