Mythbusters' Savage The Latest Socked With Huge 3G Bill - Just maybe the user high-bill notification process needs improvement?
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Mythbusters' Savage The Latest Socked With Huge 3G Bill Just maybe the user high-bill notification process needs improvement? 05:17PM Friday Jun 26 2009 by Karl Bode tags: prices · business · wireless · bandwidth · Op/Ed · consumers · caps
It's been a few months since the last time a mobile broadband user received a roaming bandwidth bill that required a second mortgage, so we were clearly overdue. In this latest instance though the impacted customer was Adam Savage from the TV show Mythbusters, who's spent the day on Twitter complaining (via Techdirt) that AT&T has charged him $11,000 for using mobile data while on a trip to Canada. That's actually low compared to other stories. Usually there's a compassionate and sweet contingent of our users that argue consumers are stupid and deserve bankruptcy for not being able to navigate AT&T's billing -- though Savage is anything but stupid and was pretty clearly aware of the overages. He's arguing that he didn't consume the 9 gigabytes AT&T claims and like Verizon, AT&T's math may be a little fuzzy when it gets down to the sub-penny level. While users should read their contracts and understand AT&T's overage fees and roaming surcharges, clearly there's a disconnect happening somewhere in the customer education and alert process that needs fixing. Right now we know that AT&T not only offers a bandwidth consumption tool, but they also often send users an SMS should their account balances start to get silly. Except in at least one instance, we've seen AT&T try to send that SMS alert to a data card not configured to receive it. Perhaps carriers need to repeatedly call the user when spending variates drastically from a norm (as with credit card companies), or implement an automatic "walled garden" account lock like those used with spam trojan-infected broadband users. Surely charging users the equivalent of the GDP of small countries for bandwidth is a profitable enterprise, but that doesn't mean carriers can't try just a little bit harder to prevent such bills. On the plus side, at least Savage had his service suspended before the bill became truly extraterrestrial in nature, something that didn't happen with a number of customers in the same predicament (like this guy). This endless stream of stories about insane bills is only going to get worse as carriers start offering subsidized netbooks with 3G connections to consumers unfamiliar with caps and overages (or even what a gigabyte is). Ultimately, carriers might want to do something about helping consumers through this process before an Attorney General in a state with tough consumer protection laws picks this up as his or her pet project. Update: AT&T sends us an e-mail saying they're working with Adam right now to resolve the issue. Related:- If You Read Your Contract You Wouldn't Have A $5,000 3G Bill
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- Verizon's New, Ridiculous Wireless Data Prices
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a333 @ 26th Jun 04:40PM:
Hardly surprising...
.... considering that probably 65% or more of the general populace has no CLUE as to what the heck a GB is, how do you expect them to understand that using their 3G aircards outside the US costs extra? I personally know several people who were surprised to learn that voice roaming costs extra when you go international... That, coupled with a complete lack of technical interest or even desire to learn, is what has these people rushing to the nearest media outlet faster than you can say "roaming".....
I mean, yes, it would TEND to help if wireless companies were a tad more helpful when it came to notifications, i.e. the walled garden system, but as they say... you can't fix stupid.
Peace,
a333
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Maccawolf @ 26th Jun 04:43PM:
Myth BUSTED
I have no sympathy for him. He should READ the TOC just like everyone else. I don't know about anyone else, but I don't want to live in a nanny state where THEY look after me to keep me from doing something STUPID.
--
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Matt @ 26th Jun 04:44PM:
This Day and Age
I still don't understand why it takes AT&T DAYS to provide a data usage total. In this day and age, you would think they could track it simply. It just goes to show what a dinosaur AT&T and their systems really are.
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jchambers28 @ 26th Jun 04:47PM:
3g service is a con game
yet another reason I wont be getting a 3g mobile broadband service anytime soon stupid caps.
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banditws6 @ 26th Jun 04:48PM:
Re: Hardly surprising...
No, you can't fix stupid, and boy have we got a lot of stupid.
At the same time, 3G aircards and other means of getting onto wireless data networks are becoming more and more mainstream, especially with the subsidized netbooks being bundled with them as the article mentions. We're going to be seeing more and more non-tech savvy people getting on board with these devices and not understanding all of the minutiae.
It is therefore my belief that the wireless companies need to do a better job of warning users when bandwidth consumption strays into the "ludicrously expensive" category. And I mean really warning people, like by calling the number associated with the account holder, not just sending a fire-and-forget SMS that isn't guaranteed to be received by the device in question and saying "Due diligence done!" Or, provide the customer with an option to have their service suspended when a particular amount of bandwidth has been consumed, just in case.
But then the wireless companies couldn't profit from your stupidity, ignorance, or honest mistakes...could they.
--
"I'll follow the law until it's just stupid." -Ted Nugent
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sousademiami @ 26th Jun 04:49PM:
Re: Myth BUSTED
If you examine his Twitter feed you see that ATT claims 9GB of use, he is very aware of what the rates/Data use is. This case happens to involve ATT possibly being wrong about the data usage total, not him not knowing better. Wouldn't be the first time a carrier was wrong about data usage.
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jjeffeory @ 26th Jun 04:50PM:
Re: Myth BUSTED
said by Maccawolf :
I have no sympathy for him. He should READ the TOC just like everyone else. I don't know about anyone else, but I don't want to live in a nanny state where THEY look after me to keep me from doing something STUPID.
Too late!
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morbo @ 26th Jun 04:55PM:
Re: This Day and Age
they can, they just don't want to.
why? they make more money this way. they've run the numbers with providing instant feedback or at least, daily feedback on usage to users vs. dealing with negative PR from these types of stories. you can tell the choice they have made.
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funchords @ 26th Jun 05:02PM:
Re: Myth BUSTED
said by Maccawolf :
I have no sympathy for him.
That says volumes about you and nothing about him.
said by Maccawolf :
He should READ the TOC just like everyone else.
My guess is that he read the TOC just like everyone else, which is to say that he either didn't read it or understand it because it was too long or too dense. Those things aren't meant for consumers to read, they're meant to protect the carrier from claims.
said by Maccawolf :
I don't know about anyone else, but I don't want to live in a nanny state where THEY look after me to keep me from doing something STUPID.
Be sure to wear your seat belt.
Surprise charges on telecom bills is very similar to the surprises folks would see on consumer loans. This is exactly the reason why loan applications have that big disclosure box giving out the key rates and fees in easy-to-read font. It's a useful tool.
These laws aren't there to protect you from yourself, they're there to protect you from the acts of others that just take advantage of the fact that you're a human being minding his own business.
--
Robb Topolski -= funchords.com =- District of Columbia -- KJ7RL
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expert007 @ 26th Jun 05:08PM:
People don't know what a GB is...
Hell, many folks don't even realize there's a difference between wifi and 2/3/4G. All they know is that when they turn their computer on, it wirelessly connects to something or other.....
I know plenty of non-techies who are ordinary, intelligent everyday citizens, and they're used to sitting at their computer for minutes/hours/etc and sipping all they can without worry of an obscene overage bill.
I'm not part of the crowd that screams "READ THE TOS".....though I do agree that this should be done. This is quite obvious a predatory tactic though and it will come to a head at some point.
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drew @ 26th Jun 05:08PM:
Re: This Day and Age
I only hope that Adam is a big enough celeb that can really do something to fight them on this and maybe get something done about it for good.
Godspeed Mr. Savage
--
Come play Mafia! | My Picture Blog
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Eat Me @ 26th Jun 05:13PM:
Re: Myth BUSTED
said by Maccawolf :
I don't know about anyone else, but I don't want to live in a nanny state where THEY look after me to keep me from doing something STUPID.
The irony of this of course is that you live in NJ.
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TKJunkMail @ 26th Jun 05:13PM:
Re: This Day and Age
said by morbo :
they can, they just don't want to.
why? they make more money this way. they've run the numbers with providing instant feedback or at least, daily feedback on usage to users vs. dealing with negative PR from these types of stories. you can tell the choice they have made.
My Sprint account keeps up to date within about a 15 min window. I can check minutes used; data used; # text msgs; etc. If Sprint, the poster child for poor customer svc can do this so easily, so should AT&T.
[att=1]
Used about 49 MB of data in 3 weeks. A weakly enforced 5GB/month is the cap.
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My BLOG .. .. Internet News .. .. My Web Page
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funchords @ 26th Jun 05:16PM:
Re: People don't know what a GB is...
said by expert007 :
This is quite obvious a predatory tactic though and it will come to a head at some point.
Just to illustrate this further, this page here is 56 KB -- and at AT&T's roaming rates in Canada (which are $0.015 per KB) means that every time your computer loads the page costs about a dollar (or just under a dollar).
--
Robb Topolski -= funchords.com =- District of Columbia -- KJ7RL
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TKJunkMail @ 26th Jun 05:23PM:
Re: People don't know what a GB is...
said by funchords :said by expert007 :
This is quite obvious a predatory tactic though and it will come to a head at some point.
Just to illustrate this further, this page here is 56 KB -- and at AT&T's roaming rates in Canada (
which are $0.015 per KB) means that every time your computer loads the page costs about a dollar (or just under a dollar).
$.84
Good incentive to use text based web sites designed for mobile use. Like this:
»tkjunkmail.googlepages.com/mobilelinks
Besides, the text based web pages show the info you need much faster and are much easier to read on those smartphone screens.
""http: //text.dslreports.com/""
4.5 KB approx $.07
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My BLOG .. .. Internet News .. .. My Web Page
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Joe12345678 @ 26th Jun 05:26PM:
Re: Myth BUSTED
said by sousademiami :
If you examine his Twitter feed you see that ATT claims 9GB of use, he is very aware of what the rates/Data use is. This case happens to involve ATT possibly being wrong about the data usage total, not him not knowing better. Wouldn't be the first time a carrier was wrong about data usage.
Doen't The Iphone do a lot of background data use?
Did thing it was on the rogers network and it endless tried to download some software over and over again?
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MrMaster @ 26th Jun 05:26PM:
Re: People don't know what a GB is...
said by TKJunkMail :said by funchords :said by expert007 :
This is quite obvious a predatory tactic though and it will come to a head at some point.
Just to illustrate this further, this page here is 56 KB -- and at AT&T's roaming rates in Canada (
which are $0.015 per KB) means that every time your computer loads the page costs about a dollar (or just under a dollar).
$.84
Good incentive to use text based web sites designed for mobile use. Like this:
»
tkjunkmail.googlepages.com/mobilelinks»
/4.5 KB approx $.07
not really. It goes to show you how much a ripoff data roaming rates are.
--
One never notices what has been done; one can only see what remains to be done. -Marie Curie
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Matt @ 26th Jun 05:33PM:
Re: This Day and Age
Not only does it not update frequently, I've called in before and they couldn't even tell me what the data usage was FOR. They bury their data usage under a subpage -- all they show on the main account management page is txt msgs under the data tab.
It looks like my usage has been updated as of 2AM this morning, but nothing since.
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k1ll3rdr4g0n @ 26th Jun 05:38PM:
Re: This Day and Age
said by morbo :
they can, they just don't want to.
why? they make more money this way. they've run the numbers with providing instant feedback or at least, daily feedback on usage to users vs. dealing with negative PR from these types of stories. you can tell the choice they have made.
No they can't because when you "roam" AT&T has to wait for the other provider to bill AT&T with the data usage so therefore usage is lagged.
No matter what ANY provider says (pointing at LiamJunket) they cannot provide instant up to date information with data that comes from different networks. In order for "instant feedback" to work, the providers would actually have to *work* with each other instead of bickering, complaining, and lying like little children. And you will always have that one oddball provider out in the middle of nowhere that no major carrier cares enough to invite into their "roaming billing system".
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k1ll3rdr4g0n @ 26th Jun 05:40PM:
Re: People don't know what a GB is...
said by funchords :said by expert007 :
This is quite obvious a predatory tactic though and it will come to a head at some point.
Just to illustrate this further, this page here is 56 KB -- and at AT&T's roaming rates in Canada (
which are $0.015 per KB) means that every time your computer loads the page costs about a dollar (or just under a dollar).
What I don't get is how providers can charge for things like advertisements when I don't want them loaded. Sure, I can install extensions to block ads and such, but do you think the netbooks has them installed by default? Defiantly not.
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TKJunkMail @ 26th Jun 05:40PM:
Re: This Day and Age
said by k1ll3rdr4g0n :
No matter what ANY provider says (pointing at LiamJunket) they cannot provide instant up to date information with data that comes from different networks.
If you are going to a different country, 1st rule, unless you are filthy rich, is don't use wireless cell data. Use WiFi only.
My smartphone is set to REFUSE data roaming(that is the default) off of Sprint's network. I can't do it by accident. If I turn it on, then I accepted the costs involved.
--
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ninjatutle @ 26th Jun 05:51PM:
Re: Myth BUSTED
I think his course of action now would be to look at the Canadian networked he tapped into. I haven't roamed yet so I don't know what the data would look like.
Thats what my 3G details look like from logging into my account. They show you each time you log on and the amount of data consumed.
9GB? Was he doing a remote backup? Uploading footage back to his home office? Was he the only person using the PC? Why did he bring his 3G card in the first place? I'm never bringing my card out side of the states.
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anon @ 26th Jun 05:55PM:
Re: Myth BUSTED
talk about stupid. try reading and understanding what you are reading. adam wants to make sure att can add right.
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morbo @ 26th Jun 05:52PM:
Re: This Day and Age
AT&T and other providers have zero incentive to provide this near-real time data and to work together to accomplish it.
So, there are a few options here. All rely upon the goodness of AT&T's (and others') heart to care for the consumer except one: mandate it.
Problem solved.
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Karl Bode @ 26th Jun 05:56PM:
Re: This Day and Age
He'll get a call and refund within 24 hours I bet, speaking to the power of the Tweet (and blogs). But I dunno if they'll improve this system any.
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Corydon @ 26th Jun 06:01PM:
Re: Hardly surprising...
Part of the problem may be a lack of understanding when it comes to what kind of roaming we're talking about.
Lots (all?) of mobile phone companies make a big deal of offering free roaming (for voice within the US). How many sales pitches come with those caveats?
The customer hears free roaming and figures he doesn't have to worry about traveling.
--
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Matt @ 26th Jun 06:13PM:
Re: This Day and Age
said by k1ll3rdr4g0n :said by morbo :
they can, they just don't want to.
why? they make more money this way. they've run the numbers with providing instant feedback or at least, daily feedback on usage to users vs. dealing with negative PR from these types of stories. you can tell the choice they have made.
No they can't because when you "roam" AT&T has to wait for the other provider to bill AT&T with the data usage so therefore usage is lagged.
No matter what ANY provider says (pointing at LiamJunket) they cannot provide instant up to date information with data that comes from different networks. In order for "instant feedback" to work, the providers would actually have to *work* with each other instead of bickering, complaining, and lying like little children. And you will always have that one oddball provider out in the middle of nowhere that no major carrier cares enough to invite into their "roaming billing system".
Why can't they even provide up-to-date information for domestic usage on their OWN network?
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Matt @ 26th Jun 06:13PM:
Re: This Day and Age
said by Karl Bode :
He'll get a call and refund within 24 hours I bet, speaking to the power of the Tweet (and blogs). But I dunno if they'll improve this system any.
I completely agree. The squeaky wheel and all that ...
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TKJunkMail @ 26th Jun 06:14PM:
Re: People don't know what a GB is...
said by funchords : AT&T's roaming rates in Canada (
which are $0.015 per KB) means that every time your computer loads the page costs about a dollar (or just under a dollar).
»www.nextel.com/assets/pdfs/en/su···lyer.pdf
Sprint's rates for Canada are:
Canada $0.002/KB
More than 7x cheaper than AT&T
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Karl Bode @ 26th Jun 06:16PM:
Re: This Day and Age
AT&T just e-mailed me to note they're already working with him.
I plan to inquire why they can't improve the high bill notification system for a future bit.
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Karl Bode @ 26th Jun 06:17PM:
Re: People don't know what a GB is...
Interesting comparison! thanks
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iansltx @ 26th Jun 06:24PM:
My 2¢
This DSLReports page is now over 100KB, so $1.50 on data roaming on AT&T. Which is patently ridiculous.
IMO AT&T should, the minute an HTTP page is requested either over a roaming network or over the 5GB limit, redirect to a quick webpage saying something like the following:
===
[logo]
This is a free courtesy message from AT&T. You are now roaming. Data usage on this network will cost 1.5¢ [important to use the ¢ sign] per KB. This web page is 50 KB long including images. Therefore a similar page would cost 75¢ to view.
To add a data roaming plan for less expensive roaming data access, click here [link to a usage-free text-based page for an upgrade]. You can also call our customer service number at 611 on your AT&T cell phone (free) or 1-800-xxx-xxxx from a landline (not free).
You can also choose to keep roaming data disabled. Your data card will remain non-funcitonal until you re-enter AT&T's domestic service area and all web requests will be redirected to this page. You will not be charged for roaming data in this case.
You can also choose to continue data usage at 1.5¢ per KB. Be advised that anything other than text-based website viewing is not advisable, as a single YouTube video will accrue over $100 in roaming charges. Turn off images in your web browserif possible to avoid heavy data transfers.
Would you like to:
Upgrade your service
Continue at the 1.5¢ per KB rate
Keep data disabled
===
If someone's in roaming mode their signal would've dropped anyway upon heading out of an AT&T area so go ahead and prevent all network activity until the person decides whether to roam or not.
Call me heavy-handed, but I'd MUCH rather have the above than a $10000 overage/roaming bill. $0.05 per MB on Sprint and Verizon for overages sounds downright reasonable compared to 50¢ per MB (right?) on AT&T for overages and $15.36 for international roaming in Canada.
If this doesn't happen, I'll bet AT&T will get itself regulated. Seems like they're always getting into trouble on this; haven't heard of Sprint and Verizon horror stories in awhile. Maybe I'm not listening hard enough though.
Oh, and AT&T, if you do happen to use my wording above (I'll even write the copy for the overage page) send me a GoPhone SIM with $50 and a year of service on it. I'll be using it in my unlocked, jailbroken first-gen iPhone :p
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drew @ 26th Jun 06:26PM:
Re: This Day and Age
Good plan! Thanks Karl.
Ride on Savage's coattails and get this system better for all... Sad that it should come to this to make a difference.
--
Come play Mafia! | My Picture Blog
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ninjatutle @ 26th Jun 07:15PM:
Re: Myth BUSTED
Why doesn't he post his account log?
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PapaMidnight @ 26th Jun 07:30PM:
Re: This Day and Age
said by TKJunkMail :said by morbo :
they can, they just don't want to.
why? they make more money this way. they've run the numbers with providing instant feedback or at least, daily feedback on usage to users vs. dealing with negative PR from these types of stories. you can tell the choice they have made.
My Sprint account keeps up to date within about a 15 min window. I can check minutes used; data used; # text msgs; etc. If Sprint, the poster child for poor customer svc can do this so easily, so should AT&T.
[att=1]
Used about 49 MB of data in 3 weeks. A weakly enforced 5GB/month is the cap.
I don't if Sprint has a cap. If they do, that image alone is enough to get any such cost for breaking a cap thrown out if someone sought to do so in court. It clearly says unlimited there. That would be false advertising if I ever saw it.
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me1212 @ 26th Jun 07:30PM:
Re: This Day and Age
Still if it helps, then it can be good.
Ya know some how I am not surprised it was him not another mythbuster.
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Rogue Wolf @ 26th Jun 07:35PM:
Re: My 2¢
This is useful, helpful and cuts into the telcos' ridiculous profit margin (do you think they mind if you have to pay more?), so we can all rest assured that it'll never happen. :huh:
--
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tdumaine @ 26th Jun 07:36PM:
ATT rates
The .015 per kb earlier is the pay per use rate.
You can get 20MB of international data for 24.99
At least give all the info, not just part lol
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rradina @ 26th Jun 07:53PM:
Re: Myth BUSTED
Yes but the first month I had my iPhone I went nuts and still only managed to consume 1GB of download. It's now running no more than half that.
Unless Adam was taking and sending lots of big pictures or watching lots of streaming video, I don't know how he managed to use that much with an iPhone.
I assume we're talking about an iPhone here, right? If we're talking about a different phone to which he tethered a laptop or a laptop card, then 9GB isn't all that much.
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toadlife @ 26th Jun 07:55PM:
I wonder...
...if his computer was infected with a bot and whatever/whoever owned it transferred the bulk of that 9GB.
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Turbocpe @ 26th Jun 08:09PM:
Update
said by Adam's Twitter page :
Today the tweeps became twoops. Just got off the phone with AT&T and they've taken care of everything to my great satisfaction.#twitterrules
I'm guessing that simply means the charges were dropped.
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Unit649 @ 26th Jun 08:31PM:
Expert?!? HA!
With all of the applications out there to measure data, there is simply no excuse to not know what your usage is on a regular computer.
I put them on all of my computers as soon as Comcast instituted the 250GB cap. Someone as savvy and "expert" as Adam Savage should be able to handle this too.
Oh wait, maybe computers are outside of his league of blowing stuff up. Perhaps he should come on DSLR and get some help on installing such a simple application.
I mean I'm a pretty big fan of Mythbusters, don't get me wrong, but for all the "don't try this at home we're experts" stuff, he seems pretty illogical when it comes to "technology." He shouldn't have had to tweet. He should have been able to call them and told them what he used, and took care of it without making it into a big deal.
But that would have been too easy :)
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anon @ 26th Jun 08:48PM:
msg deleted
deleted by a moderator
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KrazyDawg @ 26th Jun 08:50PM:
Re: Myth BUSTED
Isn't NJ the state attempting to pass a law to ban GPS operation in cars?
»www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,528088,00.html
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slckusr @ 26th Jun 08:59PM:
duh
it costs money to make international phone calls, these guys are smart dont they realize it might cost to actually use a phone in a different country.
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Jodokast96 @ 26th Jun 09:57PM:
Re: Myth BUSTED
God, I hate these assholes.
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pnh102 @ 26th Jun 10:55PM:
This is Stupid
While Adam Savage might be able to pay an $11k phone bill, I still wonder how AT&T and other phone companies sincerely expect others to pay such bills.
Looking at it strictly from the phone companies' perspective, I would imagine that very few people actually pay these bills and this can cost the company a lot of money. So it only stands to reason that they should work like any other company that extends credit to its customers... impose a preset spending limit on the amount that can be billed to a customer's account and only increase that if the customer explicitly agrees to it.
--
Blagojevich / Madoff 2012!
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KrK @ 26th Jun 11:21PM:
Re: Hardly surprising...
Let's not mention that the advertising ACTS like you get default service while overseas and mentions nothing about extra service plans or paying extra.
Look at AT&T's whole "Slad and Veeder" campaign. TV and radio blanketed with these ads about AT&T network worldwide.
I'm betting a lot of people think that means they can use their phones on that network on their existing plans. Bzzzzzzt. Wrong guess. Oh they can.... they'll just get the mega-bill later.
--
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." -- Benito Mussolini
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BarneyBadAss @ 26th Jun 11:23PM:
Re: Hardly surprising...
GB isn't that Great Britain :D
--
---Barney
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Thislilfishy @ 27th Jun 12:02AM:
More bell thievery!
The roaming charges would have come from Bell Canada (check DSL reports for reviews on these crooks!). Then AT&t would have added a few points mark-up to the bill. Thus the bill Adam got. It doesn't make it right, and Bell is just this side of a Mafia in Canada. Rogers Cable in Canada actually states very clearly in the sign up pages that 3g devices should NEVER be taken outside of Canada, as Rogers cannot control what other data providers will charge them for data transfers. Rogers, is also not typically well respected around here, but obviously they've run in to this problem before and have at least taken a bit of an effort to warn their customers.
All of this is likely a case of "well they do it to us, so screw em, we'll do it to them" mentality between large corporations. Trying to make the other company look bad by forcing them to send outrageous bills to their customers. Regardless of TOC, or EULA's, no one can tell me that 9G of data transfer costs anywhere near $11G! I don't give a flying 'F' where you did that data transfer from!
Ian
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Adam20 @ 27th Jun 12:51AM:
Re: More bell thievery!
The roaming rates would not come form bell canada, ATM bell uses cdma technology and att uses gsm/hspa(or hspda whatever you want to call it), its rogers who is charging crazy rates.
--
Any comments made by me are of my own opinion.
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dvd536 @ 27th Jun 12:54AM:
Phone companies / robberies without a gun
"Confirmed"
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BlitzenZeus @ 27th Jun 01:05AM:
To those who think he should just pay the bill
Use some common sense!!!
No way did the combined usage cost anywhere this much, there is some very inaccurate data reporting here, along with some very high charges. He knew he would have some charges, but I'm getting he thought he might of had a couple hundred at the most even at their insane rates, however $11k? Yeah right.... If he had paid for a month of service with a unlimited internet plan in canada, and in the us at the same time both combined wouldn't be anywhere near this amount, along with he was only there for a short time.
Hopefully this bad press will get them to pull their head out of their ass, and actually not screw the customers in the future. If they are gonna charge by the data usage they just need to cap it out at a certain point as if they paid for an unlimited data plan, but that would make too much sense....
--
My hourly rates:
$25 per hour.
$35 per hour if you want to watch.
$45 per hour if you want to help.
$75 per hour if you tried to fix it, and failed.
$125 per hour if you called tech support, and didn't fix the issue while making things worse
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chuckkk @ 27th Jun 03:50AM:
AT&T
My family recently changed from AT&T to another wireless carrier because:
AT&T changed our data and internet access plan without our knowledge or consent, and refused to restore it when we complained. In addition, frequent "bearer not available" messages and related no data service were often the case, preventing reasonable and reliable use. AT&T is still GSM/EDGE in our area.
What was unusual was that our service plan dated back to the early days of conversion from analog to digital, and originally was part of a DOD contract plan. The data plan charged for minutes used, not the amount of data. Our original analog phones had data and fax capability via a serial interface cable, as did the replacement GAIT/GSM phones. (Until AT&T (Cingular) killed the fax capability.) They also locked out the ability to use analog roaming in areas without digital(GSM) service. This was a real killer, as large northern parts of our state still have analog service only, due to small independent carriers and the mountains.
What we suspect, and have no way to prove, was that AT&T deliberately killed the old data plan, hoping that we would allow them to convert the account to the current plans, costing far more and not including tethering.
When all was said and done, all of the family's cell phones were replaced with unlocked, non carrier bound, tether capable 3G phones, used on a non AT&T provider. I was hoping to wait for about two years longer before doing this, as by then at least 3G should be available in the area.
I rated AT&T lower than "dirt" on the usual departing customer phone survey. Constant customer service problems, in addition to the problems mentioned above were cited.
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DOStradamus @ 27th Jun 06:35AM:
Re: Myth BUSTED
Here's the core of the problem... Ever hear some Congressman or State legislator say something on the news that makes you say "How'd he EVER get in office... you'd have to be a complete, f-***ing IDIOT to cast a vote for him!"?
He's just looking out for his core constituency! There's a *lot* of idiots out there, and we allow them all to vote.
Q: What do you get when you form a majority coalition of idiots, authoritarian leftists, and the corrupt or corruptible?
A. California
-NK
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It's absolutely certain that any given database will eventually corrupt itself -- that's why we make backups.
Too much data in one place is absolutely corrupting -- that's why we have the Second Amendment!
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Maccawolf @ 27th Jun 07:37AM:
Re: To those who think he should just pay the bill
Yes, but even unlimited data on AT&T has an invisible cap of 5G. In other words, unlimited with AT&T really isn't unlimited. And from what I understand. (I don't, so I don't worry about it), tethering is a big NO-NO. Not saying that he did, but just that it's forbidden
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Technogeez @ 27th Jun 07:42AM:
Don't try this at home...
He's a professional stuntman...
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Thislilfishy @ 27th Jun 08:37AM:
Re: More bell thievery!
said by Adam20 :
The roaming rates would not come form bell canada, ATM bell uses cdma technology and att uses gsm/hspa(or hspda whatever you want to call it), its rogers who is charging crazy rates.
I stand corrected, although I am a bit surprised. As I did mention though, neither company is well liked. Unfortunately if you want a smartphone it's one or the other, (or one of the companies they own/sell too) at least here in Canada. I wanted an Iphone but it's either Rogers or Fido and Fido is getting the short end of the stick from Rogers...so their rates are a bit wonky.
Ian
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anon @ 27th Jun 09:06AM:
Big Bill $$$$$$ = Stupid Carrier (not person)
As far as i know, Cell phone are the only providers that can bill any amount for anything with out giving a immediate notice,
On TV, if I try to watch a PPV, i have to 'purchase' it... there are steps and notifications.
If i try to make a Long Distance call without dialing "1" first, i get a notification or a warning and then it's connected.
Same with DATA PLANS, how many hotspots have a login page / billing page that automatically comes up when you connect to their network?.... WELL, why can't carriers do that when roaming... YOU WILL BE BILLED AT $$$$ / MB while ROAMING... Do you still want to surf???
Aside from greed (not profit), but absolute greed, why on earth would ANY provider let a bill for service exceed $11,000?? I thought most places had limits in place, so that when exceeded, it would cut off service.
They have no problem implementing new technologie to squeeze EVERY cent out of a consumer, but how about some to PROTECT the comsumer... right, how good is that for the bottom line...
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dodgetech2 @ 27th Jun 09:15AM:
Re: This Day and Age
said by morbo :
they can, they just don't want to.
why? they make more money this way. they've run the numbers with providing instant feedback or at least, daily feedback on usage to users vs. dealing with negative PR from these types of stories. you can tell the choice they have made.
Exactly.....
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Wizeguy @ 27th Jun 09:29AM:
It's all about caps
When you think about it because of a few bad apples that like to download huge files as their day job. All these carriers imposed caps on everyone. I just wonder how much research went into establishing the cap. Did they look at the data and say 80% of our customer use 6G's a month so lets go with 5! As private companies they don't have to disclose how they came to conclusion that 5G's would be plenty for the bulk of their customers. Sorry if I see something sinister here but if you get your bill and you went over by 2 or 3 bucks it's no big deal and you pay it. But if this happens to 6 or 10 million customers every month your start talking some serious cash.
"Big business has us by the short hairs"
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Kearnstd @ 27th Jun 09:38AM:
Re: Myth BUSTED
if he is smart the phone is registered to the show or M5, that way they can just write the 11k bill off come tax time as an expense!
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k1ll3rdr4g0n @ 27th Jun 10:08AM:
Re: This Day and Age
said by Matt :said by k1ll3rdr4g0n :said by morbo :
they can, they just don't want to.
why? they make more money this way. they've run the numbers with providing instant feedback or at least, daily feedback on usage to users vs. dealing with negative PR from these types of stories. you can tell the choice they have made.
No they can't because when you "roam" AT&T has to wait for the other provider to bill AT&T with the data usage so therefore usage is lagged.
No matter what ANY provider says (pointing at LiamJunket) they cannot provide instant up to date information with data that comes from different networks. In order for "instant feedback" to work, the providers would actually have to *work* with each other instead of bickering, complaining, and lying like little children. And you will always have that one oddball provider out in the middle of nowhere that no major carrier cares enough to invite into their "roaming billing system".
Why can't they even provide up-to-date information for domestic usage on their OWN network?
That's a good question which I don't have the answer to - perhaps they treat all data (voice/data/text) as "roaming" data and want to make sure everything is billed correctly (haha I joke)?
But I know the reason why the data isn't instant for when you "roam" is correct, and makes perfect sense - otherwise I have no idea, lets go ask them.
Honestly I think when I get my bill I should see every packet, the size, what tower it came from and other information like the actual text in a text message. But that's just me :).
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chronoss2009 @ 27th Jun 11:35AM:
Do i see a AT&T phone GOING BOOM soon?
haha even a person i thought was smart wasn't so. the fees associated are all ridiculous. BUT YOU SIGNED UP WITH AND FOR IT BUDDY.
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marigolds @ 27th Jun 11:41AM:
Re: My 2¢
Here's another fun one... since I deal with web mapping applications and know the size of data those push around.
Go to google maps with the satellite with labels view. enter an address. Get Directions, enter the second address and get your results. Don't even do any scrolling. How much data did you just push around? Now, follow your turn by turn directions for, say, the last two turns before the destination.
That's a pretty common scenario. Someone lost in a foreign city uses their 3g laptop or phone as an emergency. Congratulations, you just rang up 2500-3000 KB of usage for a $35-$45 bill. Next time take a cab. (The 20MB for $25/month package wouldn't help you here, since even did happen to get it in case of emergency and remembered to cancel as soon as you got back, the $25 plus the $36 activation free will still cost even more than your google map directions, or a cab ride.)
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bn1221 @ 27th Jun 11:50AM:
Re: This Day and Age
Verizon has this:
I get an email (as company administrator) when my BB or Aircards get to 90% of the data limit. So I get emails at 200MB or so onthe 250 MB card and 4.something GB on my 5 GB cards.
ATT should do the same....but then they won't get all the yummy overage fees.
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marigolds @ 27th Jun 11:57AM:
What's a data session?
So, in looking through the data plan TOS, I noticed this all caps tidbit:
DATA TRANSPORT IS BILLED IN FULL-KILOBYTE INCREMENTS, AND ACTUAL TRANSPORT IS ROUNDED UP TO THE NEXT FULL-KILOBYTE INCREMENT AT THE END OF EACH DATA SESSION FOR BILLING PURPOSES. AT&T CHARGES A FULL KILOBYTE OF DATA TRANSPORT FOR EVERY FRACTION OF THE LAST KILOBYTE OF DATA TRANSPORT USED ON EACH DATA SESSION.
»www.wireless.att.com/learn/messa···ices.jsp
Which leads to this question... what is a data session?
Is it when I sign on and sign off again (it's not, AT&T does not have a direct way to track this)? Is it a distinct period of inactivity? Is it every new type of activity? Is it every single download initiated? I don't know, because it is not defined anywhere in the services terms and conditions.
Not in the page above.
Not at »www.wireless.att.com/cell-phone-···erms.jsp.
Not here »www.wireless.att.com/businesscen···able.jsp.
Not here »www.wireless.att.com/businesscen···8308.pdf.
And this is not even getting AT&Tcharging you for network overhead and packet resends (even if they never reach you). Which means that even if you monitor your usage at the laptop, you have no way of knowing how much that usage has inflated from bad packets on the network. Imagine getting a network timeout the first time you try to access google maps. The google maps base page is 320KB. You might have just spent $4.80 on a page you never even saw. Get a greyed out tile? It still cost you 35 cents, and will cost you another 35 cents to reload it.
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Eat Me @ 27th Jun 12:24PM:
Re: Myth BUSTED
said by Jodokast96 :God, I hate these assholes.
It would probably be like the cell phone ban. A stupid feel good measure that is hardly enforced.
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soitgoes2 @ 27th Jun 01:14PM:
Re: More bell thievery!
said by Thislilfishy :
I wanted an Iphone but it's either Rogers or Fido and Fido is getting the short end of the stick from Rogers...so their rates are a bit wonky.
Fido is owned by Rogers.
»en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fido_Solutions
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drew @ 27th Jun 01:25PM:
Re: This Day and Age
But when is that? I mean is it the second you hit 200 or 4.something GB? Or is it 12 hours later? Could the user go check that themselves?
See what we're getting at here? The systems are designed to trap the end user into paying for overages. Always.
This is no different than those payday advance places: they prey on the ignorant and uninformed. Shameful, really.
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Eat Me @ 27th Jun 01:38PM:
Re: Myth BUSTED
NJ also just passed the one gun a month bill.
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bn1221 @ 27th Jun 02:14PM:
Re: This Day and Age
I got it 15 minutes after the threshold. Even it it was an hour it would still be more useful than that ATT does.
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drew @ 27th Jun 03:09PM:
Re: This Day and Age
That's certainly reasonable.
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ErikRP @ 27th Jun 03:56PM:
Re: ATT rates
I loved Adam's comment though about AT&T saying ".015 cents = 1.5 cents". Obviously AT&T meant $.015.
We wouldn't have these problems if we had a silly cents symbol on the keyboard.
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Derch @ 27th Jun 04:08PM:
So what.
I rent local cell phones when I go on international trips just in case folks need to get a hold of me. Sorry, but I don't care what everyone says (both in BBR and around town) about the convince of taking your personal cell on trips across the US border and how companies clam you have an allowance for international roaming (if that was the case... didn't dissect this thread yet and I don't care too). All I know is that I don't trust companies regardless of what they say.
AT&T is still trying to bill me for a U-verse package at my home that never worked. And they promised to waive all charges months ago. That there speaks mountains about a company that offers international services.
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BlitzenZeus @ 27th Jun 04:16PM:
Re: To those who think he should just pay the bill
If they charge $X for Y-GB while lying about being 'unlimited', then insane overage after, why not just lower the overage amounts, and cap the charges at two plans $X+X? As others have said too, there is no way that much data cost that much.
There is also some obvious discrepancies on the data usage, or they don't know the difference between a bit and a byte even at bast 10.
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patcat88 @ 27th Jun 04:22PM:
Re: People don't know what a GB is...
Due to website bloat, it takes 20 seconds to render ebay.com on a Pentium 2 in Firefox. »m.ebay.com/ is a blink of an eye on a Pentium 2. »m.ebay.com/ is how all websites should be. 100s of KBs of JS and Flash and CSS and table layouts kill all the advances of Moore's law.
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patcat88 @ 27th Jun 04:31PM:
Re: Expert?!? HA!
Remember some international providers from 3rd world nations like to send bills of random cellphones to American carriers. Verizon Wireless for example doesn't let you roam internationally unless you unlock your account first with a call to CS. Otherwise a nigerian cellphone provider will stuff a bill with fake calls to Zimbabwe from your randomly chosen phone number.
quote:
You must add the International Dialing feature (I-Dial) to your account before you leave the U.S. in order to be able to roam using your existing phone in any international destination other than Bermuda, British Virgin Islands, Canada, Guam, Jamaica, Saipan, and the United States Virgin Islands. I-Dial eligibility restrictions apply.
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patcat88 @ 27th Jun 04:35PM:
Re: This is Stupid
Wage garnishment.
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normat @ 27th Jun 04:49PM:
Re: Hardly surprising...
I'd like to know how 9 Gigs of data transfer is worth that much money? Even if we're talking Antarctica or the moon.
Does the CEO of AT&T personally have to calculate the bill by hand to justify that kind of cost?
Did they have to chase after Adam on his trip, erecting temporary antennas?
We're talking 3 orders of magnitude from a normal bill.
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patcat88 @ 27th Jun 04:49PM:
Re: More bell thievery!
said by Thislilfishy :
Regardless of TOC, or EULA's, no one can tell me that 9G of data transfer costs anywhere near $11G! I don't give a flying 'F' where you did that data transfer from!
Ian
Homing pigeon backhaul, 1 packet on a fortune cookie sized paper in 2d matrix barcode per bird.
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normat @ 27th Jun 04:53PM:
Re: Myth BUSTED
said by Eat Me :NJ also just passed the one gun a month bill.
It's not really as bad as it sounds. They just don't want you to program the GPS while driving. It's not a good idea to do that anyway but I don't think it's worth making a law.
When I rented a GPS it came with the moving lock enabled. I disabled it so it could be operated by a passenger.
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Ulmo @ 27th Jun 05:11PM:
Re: This is Stupid
Yes, and their international providers would also have to participate in that capping. It would also require that billing generally be an instant entity, rather than the non-instant entity it currently is. I think the former would be easier than the latter: there's a lot of profit in not informing the consumer what they owe.
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anon @ 27th Jun 05:31PM:
Re: This Day and Age
said by PapaMidnight :
I don't if Sprint has a cap. If they do, that image alone is enough to get any such cost for breaking a cap thrown out if someone sought to do so in court. It clearly says unlimited there. That would be false advertising if I ever saw it.
WTH does that have to do with anything? The guy posted to show it's possible to track usage, and that's all.
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TKJunkMail @ 27th Jun 05:32PM:
Re: People don't know what a GB is...
said by patcat88 :Due to website bloat, it takes 20 seconds to render ebay.com on a Pentium 2 in Firefox. »
m.ebay.com/ is a blink of an eye on a Pentium 2. »
m.ebay.com/ is how all websites should be. 100s of KBs of JS and Flash and CSS and table layouts kill all the advances of Moore's law.
Yes.Even on my very fast home desktop PC, I often prefer many of the slimmed down mobile sites than their bloated regular web sites.
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anon @ 27th Jun 06:02PM:
Re: Do i see a AT&T phone GOING BOOM soon?
said by chronoss2009 :
haha even a person i thought was smart wasn't so. the fees associated are all ridiculous. BUT YOU SIGNED UP WITH AND FOR IT BUDDY.
How many times does it have to be said, he's disputing the amount they say he transferred? He didn't sign up to be billed for some random arbitrary amount of data that he didn't even use.
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Thislilfishy @ 27th Jun 05:41PM:
Re: More bell thievery!
said by soitgoes2 :said by Thislilfishy :
I wanted an Iphone but it's either Rogers or Fido and Fido is getting the short end of the stick from Rogers...so their rates are a bit wonky.
Fido is owned by Rogers.
»
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fido_Solutions Yeah, I couldn't remember if it was owned by Rogers, or if they just purchased the data bandwidth from them. Either way, their base plans are pretty decent, but the data plans are horrible (1G per month!!).
Ian
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jester121 @ 27th Jun 08:05PM:
Re: My 2¢
How do you propose they put a gatekeeper page on a foreign carrier's service?
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Joe12345678 @ 27th Jun 08:15PM:
Re: To those who think he should just pay the bill
said by Maccawolf :
Yes, but even unlimited data on AT&T has an invisible cap of 5G. In other words, unlimited with AT&T really isn't unlimited. And from what I understand. (I don't, so I don't worry about it), tethering is a big NO-NO. Not saying that he did, but just that it's forbidden
they now have a 5gb plan that you pay per kb after 5gb
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MSauk @ 27th Jun 08:20PM:
Re: So what.
to me the issue is the amount we pay per not that he went over. He went over and that is his fault, but we are paying like 200% or higher then what should be charged.
That is the issue with me.
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iansltx @ 27th Jun 09:28PM:
Re: My 2¢
Your APN is still isp.cingular...
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FastiBook @ 28th Jun 02:25AM:
Re: Myth BUSTED
No. There is no background anything. You need push services on (per app), location services on, and the mail setting to be updated every x minutes for it to do anything in the "background".
Some points:
One, when i have my iPhone in airplane mode with wifi on, there is no extraneous activity on the router, even over several hours.
Two, over 2 lines and a month of serious web browsing, downloading apps, watching videos etc, our combined total is something like 300 megs. We were not going easy on our phones in the least bit, and ever since my iBook's dc board has been acting up i've been using my iPhone more & more.
Three. 2G data does not count towards the iPhone data plan cap. Unless he was in some amazingly well connected 3G area (which i'm not sure canada has, i don't have enough knowledge on the issue), there's no way you could even rack up 9 gigs over a month given the slower speeds vs wifi even with an iPhone 3Gs.
So, in conclusion, you can see the only way 9 gigs of download could be even possible is if he was using his phone every day all day every minute, which really isn't practical. Few hundred megs a day is what that would equate to. Unless he was tethering (which you can't do currently), or mistakenly using 3G vs wifi is the only thing i can see, even then.... I don't even use 9 gigs a month on my fios connection
Innocent.
- A
--
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FastiBook @ 28th Jun 02:42AM:
Re: Myth BUSTED
Heh, they don't pull you over, they read your plate & mail you the ticket.
It is enforced heavily, just in random patterns. 2 of my family members work in NJ and both require phones that can do hands free operation, speakerphone at the very least.
One of my friends had an employee going over the washington crossing bridge into NJ, and he was scrambling for his BT headset (hand on wheel eyes on road slowing down actually), but NJ state trooper was parked right at the gas station across the way there, sure enough he got a ticket in the mail 3 weeks later Not sure how much it was for tho.
Also, i've noticed that cops are going after tailgaters on the major highways. This ain't a race track, no drafting!
- A
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LETS GO METS!
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FastiBook @ 28th Jun 02:57AM:
Re: This Day and Age
If sprint had the number of customers and the varied patchwork of other networks it operates across that att has i'm sure it too would discard 15 minute billing updates for something more practical.
When sbc/cingular/bellsouth aquired att wireless & the whole new dealio became att, they had a blue network (legacy att) and orange network (former cingular), and they were not compatible. In 2007 i believe it was, att phased out the blue network entirely, giving people options to upgrade to free phones on the orange network or waive early termination fee & end service.
Believe it or not there is still a blue and orange network (only on the backside), and they don't talk well to each other, and they can't determine on a minute by minute basis which tower you are connected to, even with a dwindling number of blue network cell towers, it's still an issue. Once all the blue network remnants are removed, they should be able to do hour by hour usage tracking.
All of this information was gathered by me over years of talking to equipment techs & backend support personnel. Normally blue network towers are 850 mhz heavy, geared towards car phones and high powered execs in sealed war rooms doing hostile takeovers, whereas orange is more balanced, but a bit light on 850 here and there, which they need to frekin fix.
In any case, 2 calls i've made to att about network issues were resolved by a callback from field equipment techs (the folks that work on the towers & related infrastructure) and given me an explanation that i had guessed before the call based on the type of issue i had.
- A
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LETS GO METS!
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pnh102 @ 28th Jun 08:56AM:
Re: Myth BUSTED
NJ also doesn't believe that its citizens can be trusted to pump their own gas.
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pika2000 @ 28th Jun 12:50PM:
More reason to demand unlocked phones
This is another reason we should demand providers to sell phones unlocked, just like other countries. One can simply get a cheap local prepaid plan and switch the SIM chip. But no, regardless of the ridiculous stuff AT&T is doing, people are still lining up giving AT&T money. Mind boggling.
Before anybody whining about having to pay full price for phones, unlocked != no subsidy. In countries like Singapore, all subsidized and under-contract high end phones, including iPhones, are sold unlocked out of the box.
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Big Dawg 23 @ 28th Jun 01:42PM:
Re: Hardly surprising...
I think that is what the user thought. I think they should start making these idiots pay the bill. To the early post and Ron White "You can fix beauty but you can't fix stupid".
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cameronsfx @ 28th Jun 02:03PM:
Re: Hardly surprising...
I know Obama was shocked his Blackberry didn't work in Saudi Arabia.
Yes, consumers are stupid. If they were smart, no one would pay $15,000 for a handbag or $80,000 for a GM car.
If voters were smart, they wouldn't have elected Stuart Smally either. Or Obama.
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keyboard5684 @ 28th Jun 02:29PM:
Re: Myth BUSTED
NJ is also, last time I was there, the state where they will not let people pump their own gas! It is so funny to see someone that has lived in New Jersey there whole life and come here and cannot figure out why no one is pumping there gas? "Where is the damn attendant, what do I do! OMG!"
Too funny.
And everybody needs to look at what he is saying. He is saying that he did not use 9Gb of data. He is not saying "Ooops, I did not know I would be charged that much, silly me"... he is saying he did not use that much data... period.
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Kearnstd @ 28th Jun 04:35PM:
Re: Myth BUSTED
said by keyboard5684 :
NJ is also, last time I was there, the state where they will not let people pump their own gas! It is so funny to see someone that has lived in New Jersey there whole life and come here and cannot figure out why no one is pumping there gas? "Where is the damn attendant, what do I do! OMG!"
Too funny.
And everybody needs to look at what he is saying. He is saying that he did not use 9Gb of data. He is not saying "Ooops, I did not know I would be charged that much, silly me"... he is saying he did not use that much data... period.
having lived 28 years in CT, there are times living in NJ now i have almost gotten out of the car to pump it myself when the attendant is too slow. but i know that with my luck a cop would be in line and give me some ticket(if it is even ticketable).
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Maccawolf @ 28th Jun 05:21PM:
Re: Myth BUSTED
Personally, I wouldn't mind pumping it myself. Especially if they dropped the price by a couple of cents a gallon for the privilege.
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kmm454 @ 28th Jun 06:07PM:
my experience: AT&T's charges can't be audited
My experience is not directly relevant to 3G, but similar....
I spent a few weeks in Toronto, Canada with an Edge-based iPhone and AT&T's International roaming plan. When I got my bill, I discovered that:
1. AT&T's data plans are pro-rated (my bad for misunderstanding this)
2. AT&T's charges defy any form of reasonable audit
The second point is the rub. Despite the fact that I was only and always in Toronto while in Canada, AT&T's data roaming charges showed locations from Vancouver to Nova Scotia -- often within minutes of other data roaming charges. As I pointed out to AT&T, it just isn't possible to travel 3,000 miles in 20 minutes. The Canadian roaming charges also included times when I was at an airport in the USA -- and despite my offers of evidence to AT&T that I could prove where I was, AT&T's CSR claimed that all the charges were accurate. I eventually had to escalate the dispute to my local Better Business Bureau and it took many months to get straight. :(
My opinion: AT&T's back-end billing systems are a big part of the problem, coupled with the fact that AT&T's front-line service reps have no authority to over-ride charges that clearly defy reasonable logic and evidence to the contrary.
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john262 @ 28th Jun 06:10PM:
I have an idea. Why not lower ridiculous overage charges?
The bandwidth that consumers use when they go over their 5 GB caps doesn't cost the carriers anywhere near what they charge for it. The solution to this problem is simple. Lower overage charges. What a concept, huh.
Such obscene profit levels generated by these huge overage charges should be made illegal if the carriers won't voluntarily lower these prices. Consumers shouldn't have to take it anymore. We own the airwaves that these 3G signals go over. The carriers only lease that spectrum and have to agree to use the spectrum in the public interest. Clearly, the carriers are not operating in the public interest, and they should be made to pay for violating the public's trust.
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Jodokast96 @ 28th Jun 07:07PM:
Re: Myth BUSTED
said by Maccawolf :
Personally, I wouldn't mind pumping it myself. Especially if they dropped the price by a couple of cents a gallon for the privilege.
Go for it. No one's going to stop you, I do it all of the time. But even if the "law" was changed, it wouldn't change the price.
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venom999 @ 28th Jun 08:02PM:
Re: Hardly surprising...
or Bush? Twice?
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NyQuil Kid @ 28th Jun 08:36PM:
Re: Myth BUSTED
Are they insane? Jesus Christ the nanny state is getting closer and closer...
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anon @ 28th Jun 10:28PM:
Re: Myth BUSTED
ATT are just crooks.
called them to relocate service location asked how much it would cost. they told me flat rate of $55 over the phone. The tech arrives says he won't do it unless i paid $80, I already owe att $55 just because the guy showed up. I agreed with reservations, he spent 30 min doing the work then sat in his truck after he was done for an hour. I get the bill $230 for labour. They did not want to drop it back to $80, did research found the tech's GPS showed he was in my area for 4 hours. BTW everything was working 30 min after he left. I asked for the reciept, they did not call me back. called again they did not want to waive anything said charges are sustained, where threatening to cut my service. Had my lawyer send them a letter demanding the reciept, then it turn out the tech made a mistake. They ended up dropping the labour charges completely, but still sent me the bill for the late charges that were the result of the disputed charges. These people drive me crazy, the employees that handle the customer service are stupid as a door knob no etiquette, disrespectful, they bring you to the verge of an emotional breakdown. I get tremours after I hang up the phone with these people. But the company itself are just crooks they way they do business promise you one thing then they change it and 6 months later start jacking up the rates. And this whole thing about charging extra for foreign kilobytes is a bunch of B.S. The internet belongs to the US government so by definition all kilobytes are domestic. These bytes do not belong to ATT to be charging you for them
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mech1164 @ 28th Jun 10:42PM:
Re: Myth BUSTED
said by DOStradamus :
Q: What do you get when you form a majority coalition of idiots, authoritarian leftists, and the corrupt or corruptible?
A. California
-NK
Also Washington DC (Both the District and The Federal Government)
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mech1164 @ 28th Jun 10:46PM:
Re: Myth BUSTED
said by Jodokast96 :said by Maccawolf :
Personally, I wouldn't mind pumping it myself. Especially if they dropped the price by a couple of cents a gallon for the privilege.
Go for it. No one's going to stop you, I do it all of the time. But even if the "law" was changed, it wouldn't change the price.
Well the way the state is run. The price would probably go up for the privilege.
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mech1164 @ 28th Jun 10:54PM:
Re: This Day and Age
said by FastiBook :
If sprint had the number of customers and the varied patchwork of other networks it operates across that att has i'm sure it too would discard 15 minute billing updates for something more practical.
When sbc/cingular/bellsouth aquired att wireless & the whole new dealio became att, they had a blue network (legacy att) and orange network (former cingular), and they were not compatible. In 2007 i believe it was, att phased out the blue network entirely, giving people options to upgrade to free phones on the orange network or waive early termination fee & end service.
Believe it or not there is still a blue and orange network (only on the backside), and they don't talk well to each other, and they can't determine on a minute by minute basis which tower you are connected to, even with a dwindling number of blue network cell towers, it's still an issue. Once all the blue network remnants are removed, they should be able to do hour by hour usage tracking.
All of this information was gathered by me over years of talking to equipment techs & backend support personnel. Normally blue network towers are 850 mhz heavy, geared towards car phones and high powered execs in sealed war rooms doing hostile takeovers, whereas orange is more balanced, but a bit light on 850 here and there, which they need to frekin fix.
In any case, 2 calls i've made to att about network issues were resolved by a callback from field equipment techs (the folks that work on the towers & related infrastructure) and given me an explanation that i had guessed before the call based on the type of issue i had.
- A
Then whose responsibility is it then? AT&T should have gotten their act together years ago. Instead they nickel and dime you and can't figure the arse from their elbow.
They have made millions from the Iphone on their system. Time enough to get things right. Oh wait silly that's not AT&T.
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DJMASACRE @ 29th Jun 01:00AM:
Re: Do i see a AT&T phone GOING BOOM soon?
" Right now we know that AT&T not only offers a bandwidth consumption tool, but they also often send users an SMS should their account balances start to get silly. "
whats silly, is that you people still use a cell phone for crap like this .
a cell phone is not for the Internet.
stop using this crap.
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Ikarasu @ 29th Jun 08:03AM:
Re: Do i see a AT&T phone GOING BOOM soon?
said by DJMASACRE :
" Right now we know that AT&T not only offers a bandwidth consumption tool, but they also often send users an SMS should their account balances start to get silly. "
whats silly, is that you people still use a cell phone for crap like this .
a cell phone is not for the Internet.
stop using this crap.
The internet isnt for downloading stuff, its for BBS and discussions.
Technology evolves - people evolve. 10 years ago a cell phone couldnt play movies, games, or anything...and now it can. If I'm visiting another state or country, and can get online with my cell phone/no hotel internet... why not?
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dathing @ 29th Jun 09:46AM:
Re: Myth BUSTED
said by purple111111111 :
The internet belongs to the US government so by definition all kilobytes are domestic. These bytes do not belong to ATT to be charging you for them
You're joking, right?
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avd706 @ 29th Jun 03:22PM:
Re: Myth BUSTED
said by Jodokast96 :said by Maccawolf :
Personally, I wouldn't mind pumping it myself. Especially if they dropped the price by a couple of cents a gallon for the privilege.
Go for it. No one's going to stop you, I do it all of the time. But even if the "law" was changed, it wouldn't change the price.
AGREED, NJ has the cheapest gas in the region.
--
Team JON.
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Buttset @ 29th Jun 04:13PM:
Re: Hardly surprising...
Let's pray Obama has 1 term.
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anon @ 30th Jun 08:14AM:
Re: Do i see a AT&T phone GOING BOOM soon?
said by Ikarasu :said by DJMASACRE :
" Right now we know that AT&T not only offers a bandwidth consumption tool, but they also often send users an SMS should their account balances start to get silly. "
whats silly, is that you people still use a cell phone for crap like this .
a cell phone is not for the Internet.
stop using this crap.
The internet isnt for downloading stuff, its for BBS and discussions.
Technology evolves - people evolve. 10 years ago a cell phone couldnt play movies, games, or anything...and now it can. If I'm visiting another state or country, and can get online with my cell phone/no hotel internet... why not?
cell phones are not and never were for games, movies or other.
they are for making emergency calls if your are not at home. period. There is no need for it more than that
if you want somethig else create a seperate machine.
wait, they already have those, its called a COMPUTER. so make one small enough to carry around with you to do all those cool things and more just like you would on a real PC.
not cheap crap integrated into your phone while the companies you choose charge you out the ass for bullshit.
you have to admit, it has and probably always will be just a merchandising scam, and most of you all just bought right into it.
anyway yes, Internet could be useful, so use a laptop then. If you can walk down a street holding a blackberry in your hand like a frgging compass walking around then im sure you could carry a laptop in a case on your shoulder. Maybe most likely pay less or nothing and use a full computer system to do anything you please in the fullest capabilities you should choose.
and thats fine that using the phone for BBS/discussions maybe. but that counts as DATA use ? doesnt sound important enough to me i guess.
seriously, think about what you pay so much for. Is it really worth it ................ if for you, how many people actually need to do that.
i could go on more but i think you see my point , :)
take care =)
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cerone @ 30th Jun 09:28AM:
Re: Hardly surprising...
I concure
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anon @ 1st Jul 02:15AM:
Roaming ...
I am clear of roaming fees in the us, but, I guess Canada is considered international once you are out of the us. It is outrageous, but at&t make it clear on this, that is what I was taught.
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