Sorry Qwest, 'Next Generation' Broadband Isn't 896kbps Upstream - Qwest's ADSL2+ deployments leave a little something to be desired....
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Sorry Qwest, 'Next Generation' Broadband Isn't 896kbps Upstream
Qwest's ADSL2+ deployments leave a little something to be desired....
(old news - 06:08PM Thursday Jul 03 2008)
tags: dsl · competition · business · bandwidth · telco · Qwest.net
With some providers, trying to figure out what their broadband tiers' upstream speeds are from their website isn't entirely unlike unearthing national security secrets. If that's the case, it's usually because on some level, they're embarrassed by what they're offering. I noticed that Light Reading has an entertaining rant about the upstream speed of Qwest's new ADSL2+ service, which the company is offering to a limited number of homes. I am a Web programmer. I work from home sometimes. I upload files. Sometimes a lot of files, sometimes a lot of big files. I use Remote Desktop to access my PC at home. I am a Power User. I am the first one on the block to upgrade to the fastest fill in the blank techno weenie gadget. I understand computers, networks, servers, hardware, and software. Why doesn’t Qwest understand that I want fast upload speeds? I mean, even T1 equivalent upload would be good. Visiting Qwest's main page for their 12Mbps and 20Mbps "fiber optic" service, you'd be hard pressed to find any mention of the anemic upstream speeds. Oddly their " video demo" omits upstream speeds as well. Only once you're past the geographical pre-qualification wall (or if you call a service rep) do you realize that Qwest's definition of "next generation" doesn't exceed 1Mbps upstream because they can't afford to deploy VDSL or fiber directly to the home.
Related:- Qwest Finally Killing Off Old 'Choice TV'
- Thursday Evening Links
- Wednesday Evening Links
- Qwest Launches Rebranding Effort
- Qwest Keeps Pretending Speed Doesn't Matter
- Qwest: Remember How We Said Speed Didn't Matter? Forget That.
- Qwest: 265,000 ADSL2+/VDSL Customers
- What Network Neutrality Is REALLY About
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ztmike @ 3rd Jul 06:10PM:
DSL
dsl upload speeds slow? Never.. :huh:
--
www.youtube.com/watch?v=mdYueIC1pjM
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espaeth @ 3rd Jul 06:14PM:
If only user desire trumped engineering obstacles...
Maybe if we got enough people to sign a petition we can get crosstalk considerations removed from the ADSL2+ protocol spec!
reply
Karl Bode @ 3rd Jul 06:19PM:
Re: If only user desire trumped engineering obstacles...
Yeah, if only there were a technology that offered faster upstream speeds! Gosh, we're just sunk.
reply
pokesph @ 3rd Jul 06:25PM:
Re: If only user desire trumped engineering obstacles...
Maybe, just maybe, we can just bond 2 lines together.
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maartena @ 3rd Jul 06:26PM:
Re: DSL
DSL, ADSL, ADSL2+, and most DSL technologies have one enourmous drawback. To get more upload then about 1 Mbps, you pretty much need to live right next to the CO.
VDSL can give you up to about 5 Mbps upstream provided you are actually within 800ft of the CO or something like that. U-Verse from AT&T has 1.5 Mbps upload, BUT you have to be close to a DSLAM for that.
Telco's need to switch to fiberoptics to get the powerusers. My cable company offers 15/2 connections (for businesses, I have 10/1 but i think they will upgrade everyone). NO telco is going to give me that (I am 11000 ft from the CO) unless they run fiber into my home.
--
"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both" -
Benjamin Franklin, Founding Father.
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espaeth @ 3rd Jul 06:31PM:
Re: If only user desire trumped engineering obstacles...
said by Karl Bode :
Yeah, if only there were a technology that offered faster upstream speeds!
Name a technology that Qwest could deploy at the same or lower costs than their FTTN ADSL2+ offering that would allow those faster upstream speeds.
reply
espaeth @ 3rd Jul 06:33PM:
Re: If only user desire trumped engineering obstacles...
said by pokesph :
Maybe, just maybe, we can just bond 2 lines together.
There's nothing to stop you from ordering 2 lines and doing this yourself today.
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PolarBear @ 3rd Jul 06:33PM:
Re: If only user desire trumped engineering obstacles...
BLASPHEMY! Shut your mouth, such evils should not be spoken of!
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vortex91 @ 3rd Jul 06:42PM:
Re: If only user desire trumped engineering obstacles...
oh gee FTTH?
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mikepd @ 3rd Jul 06:45PM:
Re: If only user desire trumped engineering obstacles...
Not going to happen since true line bonding requires support at the ISP end as well as the subscriber end.
--
Always Reach Beyond Your Grasp
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Karl Bode @ 3rd Jul 06:45PM:
Re: If only user desire trumped engineering obstacles...
Juice boosted carrier pigeon?
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espaeth @ 3rd Jul 06:49PM:
Re: If only user desire trumped engineering obstacles...
said by mikepd :
Not going to happen since true line bonding requires support at the ISP end as well as the subscriber end.
No ISP support necessary. You just need to have a box somewhere with sufficient bandwidth (ie, a server at a local data center) and establish a multilink PPP session to that.
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hurfy @ 3rd Jul 06:49PM:
umm
So he is wants T1 speeds uploading and some multiple of T1 downloading at a tenth the price of a T1 correct?
Having a hard time mustering up too much sympathy ;)
At least most ISPs got away from 128/256 upstream and the biggest number they can muster for downstream and gave us something to work with.
I don't need more bandwidth, i need shorter routing :(
Be nice if my internet didn't go 2-3000 miles to get across the street (ok, it's really 2 whole blocks!) :/
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espaeth @ 3rd Jul 06:50PM:
Re: If only user desire trumped engineering obstacles...
said by vortex91 :
oh gee FTTH?
*sigh* An FTTH deployment would not be the same or lower cost to that of their FTTN deployment.
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dadkins @ 3rd Jul 06:52PM:
Only pirates...
... need any sort of faster upload!!!1
Remember, if you are uploading anything, you are doing something illegal! :mad:
Just incase someone misses it, ^^^ That is severe sarcasm!
--
Think outside the Fox... Opera
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maartena @ 3rd Jul 06:58PM:
Re: If only user desire trumped engineering obstacles...
said by espaeth :said by Karl Bode :
Yeah, if only there were a technology that offered faster upstream speeds!
Name a technology that Qwest could deploy
at the same or lower costs than their FTTN ADSL2+ offering that would allow those faster upstream speeds.
None. That's why I stick with Cable, because they can. :)
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Jovi @ 3rd Jul 07:02PM:
Re: Only pirates...
said by dadkins :
... need any sort of faster upload!!!1
Remember, if you are uploading anything, you are doing something illegal! :mad:
Just incase someone misses it, ^^^ That is severe sarcasm!
/\ What he said /\
--
"Where's my coffee? Oh. I guess it's my turn to make it." :(
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KrK @ 3rd Jul 07:09PM:
Re: Only pirates...
What he said again!
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yuutomo @ 3rd Jul 07:15PM:
well..
welcome to what the government has let become of the broadband initiative.
want good broadband, move to a country that will respect your rights as a person and also take care of the environment.
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Dogfather @ 3rd Jul 07:15PM:
Re: If only user desire trumped engineering obstacles...
Gosh, if only the whiners would get together and put up $20 billion, they could build the "perfect" network instead of bitching about what everyone else isn't doing for them.
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Dogfather @ 3rd Jul 07:18PM:
Re: well..
...and don't let the door hit ya in the ass.
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EPS @ 3rd Jul 07:20PM:
Re: If only user desire trumped engineering obstacles...
said by espaeth :said by Karl Bode :
Yeah, if only there were a technology that offered faster upstream speeds!
Name a technology that Qwest could deploy
at the same or lower costs than their FTTN ADSL2+ offering that would allow those faster upstream speeds.
Yes, Qwest shouldn't have to spend MORE money! God, how dare some suggest that they may be better off with a more expensive choice- haven't those unlucky enough to hold shares in Q suffered enough?
Qwest dug themselves into this pit with all their debt, but now I don't really see how they can do anything else- they simply don't have the capability to make huge expensive deployments like telecom mega-conglomerates VZ and T.
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danry25 @ 3rd Jul 07:21PM:
Re: Only pirates...
said by Jovi :said by dadkins :
... need any sort of faster upload!!!1
Remember, if you are uploading anything, you are doing something illegal! :mad:
Just incase someone misses it, ^^^ That is severe sarcasm!
/\ What he said /\
1mbps what the #$%@, do I really have to go to school and upload my youtube videos there on their 60mbps symmetrical connection!? :mad:
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robertfl @ 3rd Jul 07:30PM:
Greed
this is about greed at the top
ISP's can easily support faster speeds at lower prices.
but that's not happening
-Rob
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rmdir @ 3rd Jul 07:33PM:
call a data plumber
They just need to put in bigger tubes.
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The Beer @ 3rd Jul 07:35PM:
In all fairness
I like to bash Qwest as much as the next guy however even 896 up is 2 to 4 even 6 times faster than ALL of Cox's tiers before you hit the Premium tier. Even then you only get 1MB.
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Matt @ 3rd Jul 07:52PM:
Re: If only user desire trumped engineering obstacles...
said by espaeth :said by mikepd :
Not going to happen since true line bonding requires support at the ISP end as well as the subscriber end.
No ISP support necessary. You just need to have a box somewhere with sufficient bandwidth (ie, a server at a local data center) and establish a multilink PPP session to that.
Screw fiber to the home or DOCSIS 3.0, let's all order 2 DSL lines, co-locate a server in a data center, pay for our bandwidth there, just so we can get 1.8Mbps upstream!
Whooo!
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dynodb @ 3rd Jul 08:07PM:
Yawn
And exactly how many providers make a big stink about upstream speeds in terms of marketing?
Up until very recently, a lot providers were only offering in the neighborhood of 386k to 768k upstream- some still do. Given the choice, most would have the higher downstream than a higher upstream at the expense of downstream speed.
If a work from home "power user" needs faster upstream speeds, switch to a provider or service that offers it. Problem solved.
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dynodb @ 3rd Jul 08:11PM:
Re: Greed
said by robertfl :
this is about greed at the top
ISP's can easily support faster speeds at lower prices.
but that's not happening
-Rob
Please share with us your extensive research and expertise that brought you to this conclusion.
Or shall we just assume the obvious- that you've no idea what you're talking about and falling back on the standard "Big Evil Corporations are the source of all evil" kneejerk response that's the norm around here?
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SLD @ 3rd Jul 08:23PM:
Re: If only user desire trumped engineering obstacles...
Maybe we can commendeer some of the money from the Iraq "war" for this.
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elios @ 3rd Jul 08:24PM:
Re: Yawn
said by dynodb :
And exactly how many providers make a big stink about upstream speeds in terms of marketing?
Up until very recently, a lot providers were only offering in the neighborhood of 386k to 768k upstream- some still do. Given the choice, most would have the higher downstream than a higher upstream at the expense of downstream speed.
If a work from home "power user" needs faster upstream speeds, switch to a provider or service that offers it. Problem solved.
and if there ISNT a faster one? then what
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Asmodeus @ 3rd Jul 08:26PM:
upload speeds are a joke ISP's wide
Seriously, outside of Fios, why can't these isps dole out the upload speeds to at least t1 speeds. Yeah, they can give huge download, but then you get hamstrung by upload speeds. I do a lot of work from home and I am constantly uploading large files back to my office. It's so agonizingly slow.
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en102 @ 3rd Jul 08:38PM:
Re: If only user desire trumped engineering obstacles...
I do remote desktop over 3Mbps/512kbps - and it works just fine. As far as uploading large files...get off Windows platform, and use Solaris/Linux/HP-UX and Java/Weblogic
--
Canada = Hollywood North
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Doctor Four @ 3rd Jul 08:45PM:
Re: Only pirates...
said by dadkins :
... need any sort of faster upload!!!1
Remember, if you are uploading anything, you are doing something illegal! :mad:
Just incase someone misses it, ^^^ That is severe sarcasm!
There are some here who will take that seriously, as seen by
their anti-filesharing stance in their posts. I could name
names, but some of them are pretty sensitive about being
called out like that, and my post might get deleted by moderator.
--
"The trouble with computers, of course, is that they are very sophisticated idiots." - Doctor Who (from Robot)
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adisor19 @ 3rd Jul 08:55PM:
Re: DSL
said by maartena :
DSL, ADSL, ADSL2+, and most DSL technologies have one enourmous drawback. To get more upload then about 1 Mbps, you pretty much need to live right next to the CO.
VDSL can give you up to about 5 Mbps upstream provided you are actually within 800ft of the CO or something like that. U-Verse from AT&T has 1.5 Mbps upload, BUT you have to be close to a DSLAM for that.
Telco's need to switch to fiberoptics to get the powerusers. My cable company offers 15/2 connections (for businesses, I have 10/1 but i think they will upgrade everyone). NO telco is going to give me that (I am 11000 ft from the CO) unless they run fiber into my home.
Umm, did someone forget about Annex M by any chance ? Annex M gives ADSL2+ up to 3Mbps upload speed yet these guys aren't even offering it.. makes you wonder..
Adi
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Dogfather @ 3rd Jul 09:13PM:
Re: If only user desire trumped engineering obstacles...
Or better, give it back to the taxpayers.
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Spazonator @ 3rd Jul 09:14PM:
Local ISP
This is why I'm now with a local ISP now. I get 4 megs down and 2 up for $40 (not much compared with FIOS but for the middle of NE its amazing). I'm very satisfied with my connection and get around 30ms on Battlefield. Enough with the advertisement but to put it simple sometimes the smaller guys are the best and your supporting your local economy because most of the money goes back into your town! :)
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tschmidt @ 3rd Jul 09:16PM:
Re: upload speeds are a joke ISP's wide
Cable DOCSIS and Telco DSL were designed based on a passive consumption model. There were engineering and business reasons for the trade-off.
As Internet matures part of its promise is a more egalitarian communication model where there are many, rather then a privileged few, content providers. That is why I prefer term First-Mile rather then Last-Mile to describe customer access network. That change is putting severe strain on broadband business model used by most ISPs.
FTTP, like Verizon's FIOS, is the only real long term solution to deliver massive bandwidth to support both video libraries and large scale content creation and telecommuting.
/tom
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dvd536 @ 3rd Jul 09:18PM:
Re: In all fairness
said by The Beer :
I like to bash Qwest as much as the next guy however even 896 up is 2 to 4 even 6 times faster than ALL of Cox's tiers before you hit the Premium tier. Even then you only get 1MB.
Actually cox's standard tier gives you 768kbps upload and premium is 1536kbps upload with powerboost taking it to around 3 to 5mbps.
--
When I gez aju zavateh na nalechoo more new yonooz tonigh molinigh - Ken Lee
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tschmidt @ 3rd Jul 09:25PM:
Re: DSL
said by adisor19 :
Annex M gives ADSL2+ up to 3Mbps upload speed yet these guys aren't even offering it..
While it is rather easy to increase upload performance for DSL one does so at the expense of download. The total capacity of DSL is limited by attenuation and noise sources.
»en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ITU_G.992.5_Annex_M
»www.billion.com/edu/AnnexM_Whitepaper.pdf
/tom
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The Beer @ 3rd Jul 09:37PM:
Re: In all fairness
Not in Omaha.
Basic is 256x128 $19.99
Value is 1.5x256 $29.99
Standard is 7.0x512 $44.99
Premium is 12x1 $59.99
Does powerboost go upstream?
»www.cox.com/omaha/highspeedinter···-608.gif
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Doctor Olds @ 3rd Jul 10:18PM:
What about Annex J and Annex M? Are they not offered?
ADSL2 and ADSL2+ can handle up to 3.5 Mbps on the Upstream if they use the Annex J or Annex M versions.
I wonder why they don't?
If Quest were truly fiber, it could easily be synchronous speeds Up and Down. Then even 10/10 would be sweet!!!
--
What’s the point of owning a supercar if you can’t scare yourself stupid from time to time?
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yuutomo @ 3rd Jul 10:52PM:
Re: well..
the door will be taken if and when I leave the country, I gave my blood and sweat in service to my country. I can say anything I damn well please, you don;t like it, go jump on a landmine.
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dynodb @ 3rd Jul 10:53PM:
Re: What about Annex J and Annex M? Are they not offered?
Use your l33t Google skills and you'll have the answer. To my knowledge, annex M hasn't been adopted in North America yet. ADSL2 is a dead standard due in part to it's 12M limit.
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Cyber2lz @ 3rd Jul 10:59PM:
20/20 here
With FiOS in the hinterlands of West Central Florida.
DL Ubuntu distro last night just because. Limited by MIT's FTP server.
New 1TB Raid 5 box and needed to test it. :)
--
The Light Pipe is the Right Pipe !!!
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anon @ 3rd Jul 11:05PM:
Re: Yawn
said by dynodb :
And exactly how many providers make a big stink about upstream speeds in terms of marketing?
Up until very recently, a lot providers were only offering in the neighborhood of 386k to 768k upstream- some still do. Given the choice, most would have the higher downstream than a higher upstream at the expense of downstream speed.
If a work from home "power user" needs faster upstream speeds, switch to a provider or service that offers it. Problem solved.
Really?! Just like that? and that is just going to get rid of the zoned areas and duopoly system providers setup in regions?...laff
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quetwo @ 3rd Jul 11:19PM:
Re: If only user desire trumped engineering obstacles...
What exactally does Windows have to do with the size of a download? Last I checked, Linux ISOs/DVDs are pretty large too...
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quetwo @ 3rd Jul 11:25PM:
Re: What about Annex J and Annex M? Are they not offered?
Why is it that people only do research on ASDL? What every happend to ReachDSL, VDSL, SDSL, etc?
5 years ago, I had a 2/2 SDSL from a CLEC. Worked great.
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PolarBear @ 4th Jul 12:31AM:
Re: If only user desire trumped engineering obstacles...
No kidding. A much cheaper alternative would be to order two lines and connect them to a dual-WAN router. Although I'm not sure if you can max out both lines with only one connection (say, uploading a large file to a server).
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PolarBear @ 4th Jul 12:44AM:
Some cable isn't any better
You think Qwest's upload sucks, CableOne in my area isn't much better. I DO love their service (no outages in the 11 months I've had it), speeds are exactly as advertised, but the upload just sucks. I'd LOVE the SOHO option, but I'd only pay $99 month if it came with free beer!
--
There comes a point in your life when you get tired of fixing everything and wiping everyone's ass. But it’s not giving up. It’s realizing that you don’t need certain people and the bullshit and drama they bring to your life.
CableOne Tiers for Lewiston, Idaho |
pog @ 4th Jul 12:58AM:
vdsl, vdsl2
Not sure exactly, but I thought AT&T and Quest were deploying FTTN and then VDSL and VDSL2 to the home. I've also read that Verizon has used VDSL2 in MDUs where fiber wasn't practical.
Does this mean anything to those of us stuck at lower speeds? Probably not.
I can't get more than 3/768 out of my CO... even though my provider (Hawaiian Telcom) announced 7/1 and 11/1 packages almost a year ago. At this point, 1mbit up is not really enough even... but the primary competition (RR) offers the same unless I get a business account. IOW, nothing much is likely to change here.
--
My Site
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Doctor Olds @ 4th Jul 01:06AM:
Re: What about Annex J and Annex M? Are they not offered?
said by dynodb :
Use your l33t Google skills and you'll have the answer. To my knowledge, annex M hasn't been adopted in North America yet. ADSL2 is a dead standard due in part to it's 12M limit.
Right. :uhh: Like Google reveals what the CEO, the Management and Development Team plans are as they daily blog about their previous days business plans, hardware procurements, lab tests, and final decisions.
--
What’s the point of owning a supercar if you can’t scare yourself stupid from time to time?
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Dogfather @ 4th Jul 01:15AM:
Re: well..
I don't give a shit what you gave for what and it isn't your country. "Yay, I earned the right to cry like a schoolgirl that America sucks because everyone else isn't bringing me fast upload speeds".
Instead of pissing and moaning expecting everyone else to do for you, move to your broadband utopia...and don't let the door hit you in your self-righteous ass on the way out.
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KC9FOI @ 4th Jul 01:33AM:
Re: Some cable isn't any better
Maybe CableOne should let you take fewer email accounts on the Residential Pro and trade them in for higher upload speeds...20 seems a bit excessive for any home user when many free email options are available. Really, any more than 10 per family is probably excessive.
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attsbcisgay @ 4th Jul 01:39AM:
Re: If only user desire trumped engineering obstacles...
said by pokesph :
Maybe, just maybe, we can just bond 2 lines together.
only a pair is used... there are 2 pair or 4 wire in a phone line.
if you could utilize that yes, you can basically go from 8/1 to 80/10 and that would be practical.
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MrMoody @ 4th Jul 01:40AM:
Re: Some cable isn't any better
Yep, TWC's upload in their "less competitive" areas is still 512k on the highest tier. That's why I switched to Embarq - and now I'd never switch back because of better service, uptime, and lack of anti-user policies like caps and blocks and TWC's seeming hatred of their HSI customers which extends even to their CSRs.
We could have faster upload if DSL providers would deploy VDSL hardware, but so far there's no interest in it unless they can sell TV on it, and the bandwidth required for TV cuts the distance limit way down so you end up like the T having to install new boxes every few blocks, which in turn greatly increases the investment required.
I wish Embarq (and the other DSL providers) would forget the TV carrot and start installing VDSL in their existing net-only DSLAMS so we could get more speed/options, but it's not going to happen.
--
The public is a poor business manager.
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attsbcisgay @ 4th Jul 01:41AM:
Re: Some cable isn't any better
said by PolarBear :
You think Qwest's upload sucks, CableOne in my area isn't much better. I DO love their service (no outages in the 11 months I've had it), speeds are exactly as advertised, but the upload just sucks. I'd LOVE the SOHO option, but I'd only pay $99 month if it came with free beer!
That's ridiculous
elite 6/768 only cost 34.99
and comcast 6/1 is only 19.95
you live in a sucky area where they have a monopoly on broadband.
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Doctor Olds @ 4th Jul 01:45AM:
Re: What about Annex J and Annex M? Are they not offered?
said by quetwo :
Why is it that people only do research on ASDL? What every happend to ReachDSL, VDSL, SDSL, etc?
5 years ago, I had a 2/2 SDSL from a CLEC. Worked great.
Look at the chart for "Annex L" as that is there now.
SDSL is limited to 2.3 Mbps last I checked and unlike ADSL, it can't co-exist with conventional POTS on the same loop as it takes over the entire bandwidth.
--
What’s the point of owning a supercar if you can’t scare yourself stupid from time to time?
reply
yuutomo @ 4th Jul 02:15AM:
Re: well..
ah, I see you like to add and reinterpret anything said to you. you must be a loyal big oil bj toadie as well and a shill for Verizon. I will leave you to your sandbox little boy, since you can't stand to hear your bosses badmouthed.
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PolarBear @ 4th Jul 02:16AM:
Re: Some cable isn't any better
Not a monopoly, just no real competition. The other options are Clearwire (who's speeds and prices suck BOTH ways), and Qwest, which is the problem we're discussing. They don't have a monopoly, they just have no reason to offer more.
--
There comes a point in your life when you get tired of fixing everything and wiping everyone's ass. But it’s not giving up. It’s realizing that you don’t need certain people and the bullshit and drama they bring to your life.
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morbo @ 4th Jul 07:18AM:
Re: umm
said by hurfy :
So he is wants T1 speeds uploading and some multiple of T1 downloading at a tenth the price of a T1 correct?
except that it't standard practice with most cable companies.
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Dogfather @ 4th Jul 10:54AM:
Re: well..
Yep, you got me, I'm a big oil and a Verizon guy...but only when I'm not doing side work for Halliburton and Fox News. I'm part of the same conspiracy that won't lose money giving you fast upload speeds in BFE. In fact, I drive around in a giant Hummer H1 bribing every local politician not to deploy on any street with less than a thousand people on it and spend a lot of time doing this in Goat Raper, Montana.
You self-righteous whiners are all the same. You all have this sense of entitlement and that everyone else should lose money giving you stuff. Then when anyone questions your childish 'everyone who doesn't gimmie X sucks", they're a shill for whoever you were looking to leech from.
I'm going to let you in on a little secret. No one told you to move to BFE. Not happy with your broadband choices, pack your sh!t and move. Or better yet, put your own money where your month is an start a WISP.
And you can stop IMing me like some disgrunted ex-girlfriend.
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quetwo @ 4th Jul 11:08AM:
Re: What about Annex J and Annex M? Are they not offered?
That is not true either. SDSL, from what was deployed out at my location (Lucent Technologies branded) was supposed to have a 6/6 max, and allowed for dialtone over the same wire.
I have a friend down the street from me who has ACD.NET as their CLEC, and is supposed to have a 12/12 service. I know he is faster than my Comcast connection.
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patcat88 @ 4th Jul 11:09AM:
Re: DSL
said by maartena :
DSL, ADSL, ADSL2+, and most DSL technologies have one enourmous drawback. To get more upload then about 1 Mbps, you pretty much need to live right next to the CO.
VDSL can give you up to about 5 Mbps upstream provided you are actually within 800ft of the CO or something like that. U-Verse from AT&T has 1.5 Mbps upload, BUT you have to be close to a DSLAM for that.
Telco's need to switch to fiberoptics to get the powerusers. My cable company offers 15/2 connections (for businesses, I have 10/1 but i think they will upgrade everyone). NO telco is going to give me that (I am 11000 ft from the CO) unless they run fiber into my home.
What happened to putting a SDSL card into the RT?
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patcat88 @ 4th Jul 11:15AM:
Re: If only user desire trumped engineering obstacles...
said by PolarBear :
No kidding. A much cheaper alternative would be to order two lines and connect them to a dual-WAN router. Although I'm not sure if you can max out both lines with only one connection (say, uploading a large file to a server).
A dual WAN router just doesn't cut it. I'm not sure what algorithms it uses, but I assume most websites are smart enough to not allow loading of password protected resources from 2 different IPs with the exact same cookie, or sign out the 1st IP immediately if a 2nd IP trys to access a resource. Also a dual WAN router, AFAIK, can't cut up an image into a 2 Partial transfers, buffer the image in its RAM, then once the entire image is in RAM, pretend to be an HTTP server (hijacking the existing connection) to the PC and deliver the image under 1 HTTP connection. Just tunnel it to a datacenter and ressemble the tunnels into 1 tunnel.
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patcat88 @ 4th Jul 11:18AM:
Re: If only user desire trumped engineering obstacles...
said by espaeth :said by Karl Bode :
Yeah, if only there were a technology that offered faster upstream speeds!
Name a technology that Qwest could deploy
at the same or lower costs than their FTTN ADSL2+ offering that would allow those faster upstream speeds.
LMDS wireless to the home from the RT?
reply
patcat88 @ 4th Jul 11:19AM:
Re: If only user desire trumped engineering obstacles...
said by Dogfather :
Gosh, if only the whiners would get together and put up $20 billion, they could build the "perfect" network instead of bitching about what everyone else isn't doing for them.
Start making physical plant being owned by non-profits that don't report to Wall Street and therefore don't have $3000 a month T1s (in a Datacenter BTW).
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patcat88 @ 4th Jul 11:21AM:
Re: umm
said by hurfy :
So he is wants T1 speeds uploading and some multiple of T1 downloading at a tenth the price of a T1 correct?
T1 is a technological synonym for DSL. Only difference is you get a refund of that month's insanely high price if the line breaks down for more than a few hours. Business managers are fools and don't know the difference.
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patcat88 @ 4th Jul 11:38AM:
Re: What about Annex J and Annex M? Are they not offered?
said by quetwo :
Why is it that people only do research on ASDL? What every happend to ReachDSL, VDSL, SDSL, etc?
5 years ago, I had a 2/2 SDSL from a CLEC. Worked great.
SDSL bastardizes T1. Would a telco get $200 a month on a SDSL or $500 a month on a slower T1?
I miss RADSL, it can reassign the channels from downstream to upstream on the fly, so your download will slow down, but your upload will speed up.
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attsbcisgay @ 4th Jul 12:44PM:
Re: Some cable isn't any better
said by PolarBear :
Not a monopoly, just no real competition. The other options are Clearwire (who's speeds and prices suck BOTH ways), and Qwest, which is the problem we're discussing. They don't have a monopoly, they just have no reason to offer more.
no competition = monopoly
It means you ain't got an alternative
Why do you think comcast in select area have 16/1, 16/2 aka Blast while other area are 6/1, 8/2 or even 6/384k?
Why do they paid what I paid and get double the download speed. I am jealous...
God bless all
Amen.
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PolarBear @ 4th Jul 03:44PM:
Re: Some cable isn't any better
I acquiesce. Very good point.
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TheMG @ 4th Jul 09:39PM:
Re: upload speeds are a joke ISP's wide
Sooner or later ISPs and technology is going to have to get with the times.
One thing is for sure: uploading 1GB of photos at 640kbps to have them printed = not fun.
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tmc8080 @ 5th Jul 12:03PM:
crappy qwest..
qwest should at least commit to what former BellSouth was going to do before the AT&T merger in terms of speed & coverage! what they're doing now is crap...
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hottboiinnc @ 5th Jul 05:11PM:
Re: DSL
How do you figure DSL has enourmous set backs? North Point DSL and others back in the DSL Boom oftered faster DSL than what we have now! Where in the hell did all of that equipment that ATT and MCI (now VZ Business) buy when everyone went bankrupt. Someone surely knows what happened to it.
The fact is Telcos REFUSE to spend any damn money on their customers. If they can get away without doing it and staying in business they will. Telco's suck! and the CEO only cares about their bank account when they retire so they milk every damn thing they can.
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djweis @ 5th Jul 05:49PM:
Re: What about Annex J and Annex M? Are they not offered?
Annex M gets the larger upstream by putting it in the portion of the spectrum used by voice - they can't coexist on the same loop.
OTOH, Annex M works great and is deployed and working in the US.
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Doctor Olds @ 6th Jul 02:29AM:
Re: What about Annex J and Annex M? Are they not offered?
said by quetwo :
That is not true either. SDSL, from what was deployed out at my location (Lucent Technologies branded) was supposed to have a 6/6 max, and allowed for dialtone over the same wire.
That is not accurate for single pair SDSL that I can document anywhere. And standardized SDSL does not have voice available on the same pair as the POTS frequencies are in use. Now VoIP would have worked, but not POTS. SDSL is 2.3 Mbps Up/Down maximum. Even Lucent agrees when I checked their SDSL offerings.
[att=1][att=2][att=3][att=4]
»Bandwidth »What is the maximum speed for SDSL?
said by quetwo :
I have a friend down the street from me who has ACD.NET as their CLEC, and is supposed to have a 12/12 service. I know he is faster than my Comcast connection.
Of course he does if that is Fiber, not SDSL. Now if he has ADSL2+ their best is 12/1.5 instead not 12/12.
»www.acd.net/
quote:
ACD.net Announces In-House Fiber Engineering Department
ACD.net owns and maintains hundreds of route miles of fiber in Michigan communities. The metro fiber connects our statewide network to give businesses, institutions, and other telecommunication carriers access to ACD's high bandwidth and redundant backbone, ACD's MPLS network, and ACD.net's telephone services.
See? ADSL2+ Only is 12/1.5 as they don't offer 12/12 ADSL/SDSL.
»www.acd.net/broadband_res.cfm
quote:
ACD.net 12Mbps ADSL2+ Broadband
Up to 12Mbps download and 1.5Mbps upload speeds
Now I did find this below and they claim something at 5.7 Mbps is SDSL, but don't confirm/deny whether it is a bonded lines (4 wire paired or more) setup which it sounds very much like since they do offer bonded setups.
»www.acd.net/connections.cfm
quote:
SDSL Solutions
With upload speeds as fast as download this is the ideal solution for businesses sharing data over the web or for people who regularly upload large files. Significantly cheaper than traditional leased lines with virtually no difference in performance.
• Fixed 24 hour un-metered internet connection.
• Up to 5.7Mbps bandwidths available
You will note that is still very, very much short of 12/12 SDSL as you posted.
--
What’s the point of owning a supercar if you can’t scare yourself stupid from time to time?
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hottboiinnc @ 6th Jul 11:49AM:
Re: crappy qwest..
BS had a lot of fiber out already in the field doing Fiber In The Loop. Many ISPs did not like this but if BS would not have sold to ATT they would be farther ahead in terms of what speeds ATT is putting out.
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veldy @ 6th Jul 03:42PM:
Re: If only user desire trumped engineering obstacles...
said by maartena :
None. That's why I stick with Cable, because they can. :)
But the cable companies are getting greedy and really pushing traffic shaping appliances and content sniffers as well as talking about real caps on total data transfer. So far, the DSL telcos have stayed out of that.
I have Comcast now and have already been victimized by port blocking and traffic shaping and it is getting to be a battle that requires work arounds that cost additional dollars. I am getting the QWest 20Mbps soon and will compare them side by side and for a week or two and then stick with one or the other. If I choose Qwest, I WILL miss the 2Mbps upload link that Comcast offers as uploading my pictures for printing [I am an amateur photographer], and doing file transfers to work will take more than twice as long :(
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veldy @ 6th Jul 03:48PM:
Re: umm
said by hurfy :
So he is wants T1 speeds uploading and some multiple of T1 downloading at a tenth the price of a T1 correct?
Having a hard time mustering up too much sympathy ;)
The difference is LOS and the fact that bandwidth is not shared. Consumers are not paying for this and THAT is why the pricing model for consumer internet service is cheaper. Overselling is built into the pricing model.
said by hurfy :
At least most ISPs got away from 128/256 upstream and the biggest number they can muster for downstream and gave us something to work with.
I don't need more bandwidth, i need shorter routing :(
Be nice if my internet didn't go 2-3000 miles to get across the street (ok, it's really 2 whole blocks!) :/
At the speed of light, information can pass around the equator of the planet seven times in a second [thus it is possible that the furthest point on the planet, if connected via fiber, would only add an additional 7ms latency in one direction]. Routing across the country can affect latency a bit, perhaps 10ms in some cases, but if it does this to avoid congestion at another point, then you are getting a net latency gain over choosing a geographically closer but over utilized route. In other words, you read way to much into the physical locations of your route.
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44402812 @ 10th Jul 03:09PM:
Re: Only pirates...
Shut up david, you are a pirate! Anyone that wants to upload anything at a rate better then 256kbps is a pirate! You are a thief, I mean copyright infringer, I can't call you a thief because you never stole anything, ROFL :)
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RMKyote @ 14th Jul 05:25AM:
What happend to SDSL? I had 10MB/10MB in 1995.
When I moved back to Denver from Santa Fe in 1995, I got SprintION at 10MB/10MB with 4 Digital Phone Lines for $150 a month. AND NO problems for the little over two years that they were in business. They dumped the service here when Qwest was denying access as dictated by law to the lines, they decided that it would be cheaper to quit than fight. I cried and have been hopping ISP's since.
So this ADSL is BS and nothing but marketing and all this figuring out what is what is all CRAP! and we're getting screwed.
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DaMaGeINC @ 6th Aug 01:42PM:
Re: If only user desire trumped engineering obstacles...
Ya, what does uploading large files have to do with the Windows Platform?
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DaMaGeINC @ 6th Aug 01:44PM:
Re: Only pirates...
lol. me 2
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