Sprint Unveils More 4G Markets - Hopefully you live in Texas.

Sprint Unveils More 4G Markets - Hopefully you live in Texas.
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Sprint Unveils More 4G Markets
Hopefully you live in Texas.
06:25PM Tuesday Aug 11 2009 by Karl Bode
tags: coverage · business · wireless · alternatives · bandwidth

Sprint's "4G" phone buildout is largely going to ride on the back of their spun-off Clearwire mobile WiMax venture. Sprint will essentially operate as an MVNO on the Clearwire network, offering a lot of gear that provides CDMA/EDGE, Mobile WiMax and Wi-Fi connectivity. Of course that means the Sprint next-gen broadband markets are likely going to mirror Clearwire's existing footprint, with networks commercially available in Atlanta, Las Vegas, Portland and Baltimore.

Sprint recently announced that their 4G service will first be made available in Las Vegas, Portland and Atlanta starting this month after its initial launch in Baltimore last fall. According to Sprint, Charlotte, Chicago, Dallas, Ft. Worth, Honolulu, Philadelphia and Seattle will also see service this year. A few smaller markets you may have heard of will come online in 2010, like Boston, New York and DC. Today, Sprint announced a few additional markets that will first appear in 2009:

Abilene, Texas; Amarillo, Texas; Austin, Texas; Boise, Idaho; Bellingham, Wash.; Charlotte, N.C.; Corpus Christi, Texas; Greensboro, N.C.; Killeen-Temple, Texas; Lubbock, Texas; Maui, Hawaii; Midland-Odessa, Texas; Raleigh, N.C.; Salem, Ore.; San Antonio, Texas; Waco, Texas; and Wichita Falls, Texas.

Again, this unsurprisingly meshes with Clearwire's recent announcement of looming launches in many of the same Texas towns and cities. As for caps? The Sprint website currently claims there won't be any.

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Forums »

ronpin @ 11th Aug 06:11PM:
I'm available :)

'Sounds like Clearwire needs some serious help -- and I'm serious! (IM me!)
--
Make-up a true story.
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patcat88 @ 11th Aug 06:20PM:
buffering

Instead of caps, you'll just see "non-discriminatory" traffic shaping that tech support says is due to undefined "local conditions". So much for torrent and youtube. Your going to see buffering like its 1999.
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en102 @ 11th Aug 06:21PM:
Still not hitting L.A. / SoCal area

Not surprised - they don't want to cannibalize their existing market here.
Looks like a lot of Texas/Carolinas
--
Canada = Hollywood North
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iansltx @ 11th Aug 06:24PM:
Austin, San Antonio and me?

Though it leaked out on Engadget, Clear's previous release manifesto didn't include central/south Texas, even though Sprint was the first to roll out EvDO (then Rev. A shortly thereafter) here, between the two towns.

Hopefully this means we'll get Clear WiMAX here. If it happens, I preduct a 100% defection rate to Clear in areas that can't get cable internet. 110% if you count people on dialup because the alternatives (WildBlue, Hughes, cellular, tin-cans-with-no-string WiFi) aren't worth the extra money.

I know my family will switch.
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iansltx @ 11th Aug 06:26PM:
Re: Still not hitting L.A. / SoCal area

Y'all have plenty of 3G service, and cable/DSL runs everywhere at decent speeds. Not so here in Texas; they'll pick up more fixed and mobile customers here.
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Duramax08 @ 11th Aug 06:26PM:
sw00t

finally, something that I can get for high speed internets. but twc has been driving down the road alot, maybe they finally decided to come down my road. first come first serve.
--
One day, High speed internet will be down my road! Willing to put DSLAM's or cable plants on my yard. Contact me AT&T or TWC to set up an appointment =]
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iansltx @ 11th Aug 06:27PM:
Re: buffering

Check the forums. The company seems to be dealing with traffic pretty well.

Also, WiMAX has several times the capacity of 3G systems. So today's "normal users" don't max out the system, requiring obscenely low caps to deal with the fallout.
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DarnellP @ 11th Aug 06:30PM:
Re: buffering

Right, just like your incessant proclamations of Wimax being dead. You'll forgive me if I take your predictions with several pounds of salt.

Why are you so anti-Wimax and/or anti-Clear? Do you have a vested interest in LTE?
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Hpower @ 11th Aug 06:55PM:
No caps? IMPOSSIBLE!

There must be some error. Typo or something. No caps doesn't exist. It's all just a dream...a dreammmmm!
--
The Internet is about to go down....it is actually.
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bemis @ 11th Aug 06:56PM:
Re: buffering

said by iansltx :

... today's "normal users" don't max out the system...

But what happens when people start to increasingly accept things like WiMax as an alternative to fixed broadband? Then your normal users jump from mobile laptop users trying to download, VPN or stream audio to the typical home dunce who is running P2P, Xbox Live, etc...

As Sprint 3G data card user I can't wait for LTE and WiMax to be introduced into the Boston area.

In my particular area I see better speeds from my iPhone w/ AT&T then I do from Sprint, since I'm out of contract with Sprint and only an occasional user I would probably jump to tethering from the iPhone if I could save ~$20/mo.

LTE/WiMax and the speed bumps they bring would let them keep my $60/mo.
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Duramax08 @ 11th Aug 07:06PM:
Re: sw00t

one last question, would it be good for online gaming like xbox live?
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BSD24 @ 11th Aug 07:21PM:
Re: I'm available :)

said by ronpin :

'Sounds like Clearwire needs some serious help -- and I'm serious! (IM me!)

I think the economy needs some help, then we can worry about Clearwire... Alot of implementations and upgrades in many areas of every business are on hold or delayed... Glad to see clearwire moving forward. Poor timewarner and others delaying their start of Docsis 3.0 is similar to the delay or rather slow move for clearwire... I mean it is the first 4G network world-wide. Go Sprint! :)
--
BSD
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60529262 @ 11th Aug 07:37PM:
Re: buffering

said by iansltx :

today's "normal users" don't max out the system

Nobody really knows what a 'normal user' is on a wireless system since large numbers of them can't really use any of them as more than an occasional supplement to a wired connection right now.

I see Clearwire/Sprint dealing with a rather steep learning curve in that regard, and won't be pretty.
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AricBrown @ 11th Aug 07:48PM:
Its about time they remembered us in Texas

I mean damn.. My 3g is really 1x while technically 3g its slow as can be.

I got my Palm Pre and I can't really use it..
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Matt @ 11th Aug 07:52PM:
Pre-WiMAX Markets

It looks like a lot of the pre-WiMAX Clearwire markets (like Greensboro, NC) are being upgraded to final WiMAX. I'm curious to try this service out when it arrives here.
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rtfm8 @ 11th Aug 07:52PM:
DC

Isn't it ...interesting..... how the promises for DC have come and gone?

Originally, service was going to be turned up just weeks after B'more... then it got pushed... ... back goes Gionfriddo, back, back, back, back, back, back... heeee makes a one-handed catch against the bullpen! Oh, Doctor!"

(Apologies to Red Barber)

In short, I'll not hold my breath waiting on them.
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Matt @ 11th Aug 08:02PM:
Re: buffering

said by 60529262 :

said by iansltx :

today's "normal users" don't max out the system

Clearwire has been selling pre-WiMAX in various areas as a replacement for DSL/Cable for several years now. I'm sure they know what the average user who would consider replacing a hardwired connection with a wireless would consume.
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MySpareBrain @ 11th Aug 08:34PM:
Re: DC

Hmmm... no Houston?
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iansltx @ 11th Aug 08:40PM:
Re: buffering

My parallels were drawn with fixed users, as I'm in an area where a few people do use EvDO for fixed wireless due to the lack of options otherwise. One friend (on another tower) gets 2 Mbits down and 400k up with EvDO. Does newsgroups and such with no problem. When WiMAX does get rolled out here, its capacity will be large enough compared to the alternatives that I don't think anyone will have a problem with it.
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60529262 @ 11th Aug 08:44PM:
Re: buffering

I know that. Look at the puny numbers though. If this catches on they'll be buried in a traffic nightmare.
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DarnellP @ 11th Aug 08:58PM:
Re: DC

Since the beginning, Washington D.C. and Houston have been scheduled for 2010 according to everything that I've ever read on the subject. To the best of my knowledge 2010 has yet to arrive...
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Matt @ 11th Aug 09:30PM:
Re: buffering

said by 60529262 :

I know that. Look at the puny numbers though. If this catches on they'll be buried in a traffic nightmare.

Doubtful. As they add subscribers they will be able to increase capacity. It's not as if they are going to suddenly jump from 100,000 to 100 million subscribers overnight. Sprint may not get that whole customer service thing, but they are some of the best at actually running a network.
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bemis @ 11th Aug 09:40PM:
Re: buffering

said by Matt :

said by 60529262 :

I know that. Look at the puny numbers though. If this catches on they'll be buried in a traffic nightmare.

The trouble with wireless is that you can't fully control the number of users per tower--so yes, they can scale with new users to a point, but if you have high density areas you're going to hit a wall.

I'll wager NYC, SFO, etc will all have complaints about service not being up to speeds promised, etc ... They also won't turn away subscribers in over promised areas either.
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puck0114 @ 11th Aug 11:12PM:
Re: DC

DC was supposed to get XOHM right after Baltimore last year. Didn't happen.
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60529262 @ 11th Aug 11:28PM:
Re: buffering

It is not nearly as simple as you make it out to be. Adding capacity is not a matter of just plugging in a new radio.

Wireless towers are very easily and unpredictably overloaded. It is the very nature of an RF link.
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NJBoricua75 @ 12th Aug 01:07AM:
Promising but...

I applaud Sprint's efforts but Nextel is killing them. It won't matter how great their network is when they're still losing customers faster than flies landing on dog $hit. They should just cut this B.S. already and merge with MetroPCS. This is not going to help one bit. Who cares about a great 4G network when you have no god damn customers utilizing it! Of course it will be fast and realiable, no one's using it - duh! lol

Their plans are too confusing for the average consumer, their customer service is by far the worst in the industry. Indoor penetration sucks. One thing I would love Sprint to do is convert Nextel's 800Mhz into CDMA but I read somewhere that it wasn't possible due to the fact that Nextel uses some weird frequency in that band or something like that. Unsure.

Their phones are pretty boring too these days. They used to be leader when it came to being innovative with their handsets but now all they have is the Palm Poop *cough* Pre and nobody cares. They're too busy buying iPhones, G1's and Sidekicks. Not to mention the new My Touch that just came out a week ago. Android is really progressing. Sprint's gotta get on the ball if they wanna stay alive. It's gonna take a lot more than a good network to solve their problems. They should work on customer service which is probably their biggest fault. I even find their store reps to be a bit rude. They should take a page from the T-Mobile handbook if want to improve their customer service skills
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patcat88 @ 12th Aug 02:32AM:
Re: buffering

said by DarnellP :

Why are you so anti-Wimax and/or anti-Clear? Do you have a vested interest in LTE?

The road is littered with much e-waste (when developers abandon support for a standard) and dead standards that some genius in the boardroom through he can take over the world with, CDMA, D-AMPS, IDEN, do I need to go further? Now we can add WiMAX to the list. Each country and provider uses a different band. And no carrier will sell the septuple band phones/cards for international roaming, users in the USA are not geek enough to buy their own carrier unaffiliated cards. Compare to LTE, which has its bands defined by a central authority, anything else isn't kosher.

Plus why has only Intel for their embedded card been the only wimax card to release drivers for linux or make a platform where you can use generic drivers to operate the card? Talk about being "open".

I haven't found any proof online of Clear allowing 3rd party client cards onto the network, or any proof of Clear allowing "wrong"/any MAC address onto the network.
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dellsweig @ 12th Aug 07:59AM:
Re: I'm available :)

said by ronpin :

'Sounds like Clearwire needs some serious help -- and I'm serious! (IM me!)

Go on Monster and search Clearwire - they are hiring BIG TIME in NY/NJ and many other markets
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Matt @ 12th Aug 08:00AM:
Re: buffering

said by 60529262 :

It is not nearly as simple as you make it out to be. Adding capacity is not a matter of just plugging in a new radio.

Wireless towers are very easily and unpredictably overloaded. It is the very nature of an RF link.

I assure you, I understand how wireless works as I've deployed many public hotspots. The problem isn't in the capacity of the tower, as WiMAX was designed to handle a VERY large load per radio, the problem is in the backhaul.
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dellsweig @ 12th Aug 08:01AM:
Re: Promising but...

said by NJBoricua75 :

I applaud Sprint's efforts but Nextel is killing them. It won't matter how great their network is when they're still losing customers faster than flies landing on dog $hit. They should just cut this B.S. already and merge with MetroPCS. This is not going to help one bit. Who cares about a great 4G network when you have no god damn customers utilizing it! Of course it will be fast and realiable, no one's using it - duh! lol

Their plans are too confusing for the average consumer, their customer service is by far the worst in the industry. Indoor penetration sucks. One thing I would love Sprint to do is convert Nextel's 800Mhz into CDMA but I read somewhere that it wasn't possible due to the fact that Nextel uses some weird frequency in that band or something like that. Unsure.

Their phones are pretty boring too these days. They used to be leader when it came to being innovative with their handsets but now all they have is the Palm Poop *cough* Pre and nobody cares. They're too busy buying iPhones, G1's and Sidekicks. Not to mention the new My Touch that just came out a week ago. Android is really progressing. Sprint's gotta get on the ball if they wanna stay alive. It's gonna take a lot more than a good network to solve their problems. They should work on customer service which is probably their biggest fault. I even find their store reps to be a bit rude. They should take a page from the T-Mobile handbook if want to improve their customer service skills

Sprint is not the future on Wimax - they will simply be another user..

The big time user base will come from Comcast, Time Warner and all the other partners in the Clearwire deal (Google).

This is BIG (and its not Verizon) :)
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compuguybna @ 12th Aug 01:59PM:
Re: Promising but...

I guess the TENNESSEE market got lost . . .

we're always the last to get anything, and we have a HUGE AT&T operation here.

Verizon is the predominant 3G market here, but they dont offer HSI here. Go figure.
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rtfm8 @ 12th Aug 03:06PM:
Re: DC

said by puck0114 :

DC was supposed to get XOHM right after Baltimore last year. Didn't happen.

Not only was it announced as happening, insiders told me they were working on it, then were pulled off...
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DarnellP @ 12th Aug 06:59PM:
Re: Promising but...

said by NJBoricua75 :

They should just cut this B.S. already and merge with MetroPCS.

This makes absolutely no sense. Buying out metroPCS does absolutely nothing for Sprint. It doesn't It doesn't expand their coverage one iota. Sprint already has two prepaid units. Their Boost Mobile unit took Metro (and Cricket) to the woodshed this past quarter. If they keep their offering competitive, they'll wind up getting those customers anyway. No, the only merger that makes sense for Sprint at this point is with US Cellular as they would strengthen their coverage in several markets and expand their coverage in parts of Maine and certain areas of Northern California.

This is not going to help one bit. Who cares about a great 4G network when you have no god damn customers utilizing it! Of course it will be fast and realiable, no one's using it - duh! lol

And you know how many customers are using and will use this service how?

Their plans are too confusing for the average consumer

Really? Please explain what is so confusing about their plans especially when compared to what the other three national carriers offer.

their customer service is by far the worst in the industry.

So the surveys say. AT&T's customer service also rates below average, yet they are still managing to add customers. Go figure.

Indoor penetration sucks.

Aren't sweeping generalizations great? Anyway, you can't knock Sprint on this and then praise t-mobile in the next paragraph. They both use 1900 Mhz for their service.

Their phones are pretty boring too these days. They used to be leader when it came to being innovative with their handsets but now all they have is the Palm Poop *cough* Pre and nobody cares. They're too busy buying iPhones, G1's and Sidekicks. Not to mention the new My Touch that just came out a week ago. Android is really progressing.

More baseless generalizations. The Palm Pre has been well reviewed and well received thus far. If there is a phone that few care about, it would be the G1. Time will tell about the MyTouch. But if Android is all it's about, Sprint will soon have Android handsets so that talking point will be moot.
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DarnellP @ 12th Aug 07:03PM:
Re: Promising but...

said by compuguybna :

I guess the TENNESSEE market got lost . . .

we're always the last to get anything, and we have a HUGE AT&T operation here.

Verizon is the predominant 3G market here, but they dont offer HSI here. Go figure.

Clearwire already has pre-Wimax service in Nashville. From what I understand all of Clearwire's existing pre-Wimax markets should be upgraded to Clear Wimax service by the end of 2010.
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rtfm8 @ 12th Aug 07:10PM:
Re: buffering

said by 60529262 :

It is not nearly as simple as you make it out to be. Adding capacity is not a matter of just plugging in a new radio.

You need all the standard tools: Tower space, money, antennas, money, feedline, money, transceiver/duplexer/circulator, money, backhaul, money...

No problem! Unless you are short on money, as a certain startup appears to be....oops, did I say that?
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60529262 @ 12th Aug 07:12PM:
Re: buffering

I understand that money may be involved, too.
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60529262 @ 12th Aug 07:16PM:
Re: buffering

said by Matt :

the problem is in the backhaul.

And therein lies the rub.

said by Matt :

I understand how wireless works as I've deployed many public hotspots.

With all respect to your experience, WiFi hotspots are not in the same class as licensed wireless services. Not even close. Sorry. Unless you're in the Wireless (nee cellular) industry you do not understand how it works.
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DarnellP @ 12th Aug 07:26PM:
Re: buffering

said by patcat88 :

The road is littered with much e-waste (when developers abandon support for a standard) and dead standards that some genius in the boardroom through he can take over the world with, CDMA, D-AMPS, IDEN, do I need to go further? Now we can add WiMAX to the list.

No, you logically cannot.

Each country and provider uses a different band. And no carrier will sell the septuple band phones/cards for international roaming, users in the USA are not geek enough to buy their own carrier unaffiliated cards.

Seven bands, eh? I kind of doubt it. At present it looks like most commercial deployments are either in the 2.3-2.6 Ghz or 3.3-3.6 Ghz bands.

At any rate, they are already beginning to iron out the wrinkles in world wide Wimax roaming:
»www.wimaxforum.org/node/1175
»www.wimaxroaming.org/content/abo···-roaming

While LTE is still tackling the oh so difficult task of getting one network up and running and available for public consumption.

Compare to LTE, which has its bands defined by a central authority, anything else isn't kosher.

Come now, let's not act like everything is perfectly rosy in LTE land: »www.betanews.com/article/LTE-sti···47155225
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DarnellP @ 12th Aug 07:27PM:
Re: DC

said by puck0114 :

DC was supposed to get XOHM right after Baltimore last year. Didn't happen.

I would imagine that would be because XOHM is dead. I was referring to Clear.
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rtfm8 @ 12th Aug 07:51PM:
Re: buffering

quote:
the problem is in the backhaul.

Well, that surely is the most glaring choke point in most cases [excluding cheaping out, the real issue, of course] but it's not the sole one. It is a major investment.

Crunch some numbers: A tower needs 100Mb/s to deal with what clients can and will demand. That goes back to the MSO [or whatever it's called this week] along with the ones from the {say} one hundred other towers in your city.

You soon see it's looking like »en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OC-768#OC-···0G_Sonet inbound, and the same amount outbound as well. In any units short of Money lost by GM, that is Real Money.

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Matt @ 12th Aug 09:20PM:
Re: buffering

said by 60529262 :

said by Matt :

the problem is in the backhaul.

And therein lies the rub.

said by Matt :

I understand how wireless works as I've deployed many public hotspots.

I'll have to respectfully disagree. Although the technology may be different, the underlying use of the available spectrum faces the same hurdles. But, just in case you need further assurance, my brother works for Level 3 supporting naval communications. He climbs the towers ... and we chat often.
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