Uh, Mom? The Air Force Just Attacked Our PC - Air Force colonel wants to wage war on unsecured machines...
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Uh, Mom? The Air Force Just Attacked Our PC
Air Force colonel wants to wage war on unsecured machines...
(old news - 10:34AM Friday May 01 2009)
tags: business · security · software · Oddities
U.S. Air Force Colonel Charlie Williamson complains to the BBC that the government has been "on the defensive" when it comes to cyber-warfare and fighting botnets. His solution? Williamson proposes creating a "friendly botnet" that can be used in an offensive capacity to take out pesky cyber terrorists. Oh, and your grandma's old Dell Windows ME box if need be:
...he argues that if a computer owner has failed to use anti-virus software and install the latest security patches, that machine may be a legitimate military target. "It may, in the right circumstance, be worthwhile and even fair for the US to hit a computer that is hitting us and stop it from harming us for an hour or days when that computer owner failed to take basic steps to protect us," Col Williamson told the programme.
There are of course other, less offense-oriented ways of dealing with botnets, from ISPs putting infected PCs behind walled gardens until they clean up (something Cogeco and Cox helped pioneer), to using swarms of good computers to help defend targets (Project "Phalanx" is an example).

But sure, unleashing the coordinated, digital military might of the United States Air Force on people with outdated anti-virus definitions is also an option.

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81399672 @ 1st May 10:37AM:
Come and get me

I hope Colonel realizes how bad of pr this will be the second it hits the news.
--
i am not a lawyer but I do play one on the internet
reply
pnh102 @ 1st May 10:38AM:
Illegal in the USA

The military is forbidden by the Posse Comitatus Act from taking action against US citizens within US territory.

But if you're outside the USA... watch out. ;)
--
Blagojevich / Madoff 2012!
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TSI Gabe @ 1st May 10:39AM:
lol

Let the BotNet wars begin!
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Simba7 @ 1st May 10:40AM:
Ahh..

I'm glad I didn't join the AF. Sure, there's a bunch of smart people there, but sometimes a few get a little power hungry.

You won't see the Navy pulling this sh*t.

EDIT: Although we did create the Tor Project. Hmm.. »www.onion-router.net/
reply
N3OGH @ 1st May 10:41AM:
Re: Illegal in the USA

Well I'd piss on the damn spark plug if I thought it would work!
--
Petty people are disproportionably corrupted by petty power…
reply
screavic @ 1st May 10:42AM:
Agree with...

I agree with the walled garden part, send the customer a letter IN the mail and have it pop up and say something about you having a "bad virus" and try to see what it is so the customer can act.

I know alot of people just don't know they have a virus, trust me, they don't want it as much as we don't want it spreading it's "goodness".

I know this can be done cause you can use opendns.com and see some viruses.
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winsyrstrife @ 1st May 10:45AM:
Nice picture, but

Karl, that picture is the end result of using Windows ME, military attack or not.

:)
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TSI Gabe @ 1st May 10:46AM:
Re: Agree with...

Didn't the Terminator movie come out today? Skynet anyone? :p
reply
screavic @ 1st May 10:47AM:
Re: Agree with...

21 May 2009

Yeah I always think of that when I hear of "more smart computing" going on lol.

Who wouldn't want to hate us humans I know alot of animals do haha
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jjoshua @ 1st May 10:51AM:
What are they going to do?

Spike them!


reply
DarkLogix @ 1st May 10:55AM:
Re: Agree with...

your not suppost to know about that
the matrix/skynet alliance forbids you
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dadkins @ 1st May 11:04AM:
Re: Nice picture, but

said by winsyrstrife :

Karl, that picture is the end result of using Windows ME, military attack or not.

:)
Yeah but... is that the computer exploding or your head because of ME?

Both?
--
Think outside the Fox... Opera
reply
DarkLogix @ 1st May 11:08AM:
Re: Nice picture, but

a computer still running winME should be put down
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Hpower @ 1st May 11:18AM:
lol

rofl this is just stupid. Our governement is just getting dumber everyday. But yes, I'd say take down damn win me machines by all means lol.
--
The Internet is about to go down....it is actually.
reply
mobbo @ 1st May 11:20AM:
You know what that means...

Terrorism = Outdated AV definitions

Makes PERFECT sense to me!
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DarkLogix @ 1st May 11:21AM:
Re: lol

yes Win ME machines are the devil
upgrade them to win2k
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Mephisto13 @ 1st May 11:21AM:
Re: Agree with...

said by TSI Gabe :

Skynet anyone?
My thoughts exactly.
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DarkLogix @ 1st May 11:35AM:
Re: You know what that means...

agreed
windows ME = Terrorism too
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Mike @ 1st May 11:35AM:
I half agree

These machines need to be updated.

At this day in age, there needs to be a mandatory update feature. Crime will be reduced and there will be a less potential thread of malicious usage of bandwidth.
--
"If something about the human body disgusts you, complain to the manufacturer" - Lenny Bruce
What this country needs is a good five dollar plasma weapon.
reply
Millenniumle @ 1st May 11:38AM:
...

One wonders how Charlie hopes to determine whether one has installed "anti-virus software" and "the latest security patches?"

I think what Charlie really wants is the offensive ability, regardless. Presumably military control of all internet access.

No thanks!
reply
en102 @ 1st May 11:42AM:
Re: Agree with...

Has anyone thought about writing some code to 'fight back' ?
It would be interesting... if in the event that the USAF attempted to attack a sleeping predator PC, and took soft casualties as a result. It wouldn't look good.
--
Canada = Hollywood North
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rdmiller @ 1st May 11:43AM:
Can I see some ID?

Some of Charlie's comments are a little over the top. Where exactly did the BBC find this guy?
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dadkins @ 1st May 11:49AM:
Re: Nice picture, but

said by DarkLogix :

a computer still running winME should be put down
... with a hammer.
--
Think outside the Fox... Opera
reply
screavic @ 1st May 11:49AM:
Re: Agree with...

Be funny is to get a security box that blocks all traffic from them hehehaha. Then they would have to figure out a way around it... "Oh it quit responding it must be down... Good Job guys good job!"

What if the ISP has DOS (Denial of Service) equipment to help preserve their bandwidth? This can be a big waste of government money.... as usual.
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DarkLogix @ 1st May 11:51AM:
Re: Nice picture, but

a 50LB sledge hammer
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SLD @ 1st May 12:00PM:
Re: You know what that means...

Can you waste ANY more time writing drivel today?
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Simba7 @ 1st May 12:04PM:
Windows ME still running?

That's amazing.. Windows ME still running after 3 weeks.

I remember reloading every 2 weeks on my laptop, and I couldn't upgrade to Win2K (or XP) because the internal modem wasn't supported. Fsckin' Compaq.

Any computer I bump into that is running ME I highly suggest upgrading to 2K or XP. I'm sure I could find donor keys to help the effort.
--
Bresnan 15M/1M|MyWS[P4HT@4.01GHz,2GB RAM,2x1TB HDDs,WinXP]|WifeWS[P4@2.4GHz,1GB RAM,60GB HDD,WinXP]|Router[2xP3@1GHz,640MB RAM,18GB HDD,Allied Telesyn AT-2560FX,Kingston KNE100TX,2xDigital DE504,Compaq NC3131,iPro/1000DP,Blitz BWI715,Gentoo Linux]
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Kearnstd @ 1st May 12:31PM:
Re: Agree with...

funny would be is if the bandwidth carriers for the government shut them off for abuse.
--
[65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports
reply
ross @ 1st May 12:44PM:
Re: Ahh..

said by Simba7 :

I'm glad I didn't join the AF. Sure, there's a bunch of smart people there, but sometimes a few get a little power hungry.

You won't see the Navy pulling this sh*t.

EDIT: Although we did create the Tor Project. Hmm.. »www.onion-router.net/
That's right. The Office of Naval Intelligence is too busy fomenting right wing takeovers of fledgling democracies, unfriendly regimes and usurping the rights of whole peoples to be free from the economic yokes imposed upon them by American-based global imperialist corporate interests. Or, do you not recall the modern histories of Chile, Salvador, Nicaragua, Venezuela, Argentina, Iran, Congo, etc. ad infinitum?
reply
rcdailey @ 1st May 12:55PM:
Re: Windows ME still running?

The first question will be: Will this computer run XP or W2K? Memory upgrades may not practical, depending on the motherboard and BIOS. With computers as cheap as they are now, it will likely be less costly to just get a refurb from TigerDirect or another outlet. Then, you have said bye-bye to Windows ME. Send the hardware to the e-cyclers.
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DarkLogix @ 1st May 12:59PM:
Re: You know what that means...

have you used WinME?
I did for a few hours long ago that OS was a total mistake (similer to but to a greater extent like Vista)

think of the poor Geek Squad peeople that will be confused when they see WinME
reply
cpsycho @ 1st May 01:00PM:
HAHAHA

Let the cyber wars begin.

Nerd in mothers basement notice someone trying to access his network. Then he attacks offending network.

At the air force base.
Nerd:"Sir we have a problem".
Commander:"whats that".
Nerd:"We just lost control of our mainframe".
Commander: "get it back".
Nerd: "I cant im locked out as windows admin now. He has also changed my desktop to; HA HA I PWN'D YOU NOOB".
Commanader: "I thought you had the latest patches and norton anti virus instaled".
Nerd: "I did".
reply
en102 @ 1st May 01:06PM:
Re: What are they going to do?

That was the corniest one ever.
--
Canada = Hollywood North
reply
pnh102 @ 1st May 01:11PM:
Re: Illegal in the USA

said by N3OGH :

Well I'd piss on the damn spark plug if I thought it would work!
I'll have to keep that in my list of canned replies. :)
--
Blagojevich / Madoff 2012!
reply
anon @ 1st May 01:19PM:
Re: Illegal in the USA

That is incorrect. Posse Comitatus simply prevents the military from acting as the police and it doesn't apply to the coast guard or the national guard. The majority of limitations imposed on the armed forces by Posse Comitatus were removed with the patriot act.
reply
pnh102 @ 1st May 01:52PM:
Re: Illegal in the USA

said by hahano :

That is incorrect. Posse Comitatus simply prevents the military from acting as the police and it doesn't apply to the coast guard or the national guard.
Except for the fact that punishing US citizens for breaking the law is a task that is exclusively delegated to civilian police forces. The military going after someone with a malware-infected computer that is engaged in illegal activities definitely crosses that line.
--
Blagojevich / Madoff 2012!
reply
jmn1207 @ 1st May 02:00PM:
Re: I half agree

While I do use all sorts of security software for layered protection, I have also used some computers for years with absolutely no anti-virus software installed on them. There are other ways to protect your computer. Security software certainly has its uses for many situations, but in all honesty, I have had more problems with the security software, itself, than any virus or trojan has ever caused.

For me, it all depends on what the computer is being used to do and how valuable the data might be.

I suppose they have a cell ready for me in Guantanamo. :huh:
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DarkLogix @ 1st May 02:09PM:
Re: HAHAHA

lol it'll be so funny and sad at the same time
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Mchart @ 1st May 02:15PM:
Re: ...

:uhh:

Presumably? Hah. Hah..
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anon @ 1st May 02:52PM:
Wouldn't it violate several laws?

OK let's say the Air Force thinks my computer is infected
with a virus. They go by the IP address I just got when I
rebooted my modem. Let's say for instance, that the person
who had the ip address before me was infected.
So now the Air Force is going to "attack" my computer?
First off, that is so laughable, it's doggone funny.
The military spends billions of dollars of taxpayer money,
yet it can't find Bin-Laden and it wants to attack so-called
"infected" computers? How about taking your military
crap off the public internet and putting it on your own
internal non-public accessible network where it should be in
the first place? I heard years ago about something called
Internet2 which was supposed to be for education only.
Well, if universities can have their own version of the
internet, then why can't the military?
If I use my programming and hacking skills to access a
computer that doesn't belong to me, I'd probably be tried,
convicted, fined, thrown in jail, and given a police record.
If the military does it, it's OK? What bullcrap is that?

How about an OS that actually pops up a system window that
says, "A software program called [PROGRAM NAME] is asking
for permission to be installed. Should it be installed?"

Plain English, so those who are not as proficient in
computers (Auntie or Grandma for instance) will know, if
such a window pops up and they weren't installing anything
at the time, know that they should click NO.

How about the ability to block all IP addresses except for
only those sites you trust? Hell, I live in the USA,
why would I want my machine to be open to port scanning
by some dickhead in Nigeria looking for a way to scam
their next victim? Makes me think the younger generation
has no common sense anymore.....

--Deeply Shrouded & Quiet
--Central Control! D-Dial #49
reply
Mike @ 1st May 04:05PM:
Re: I half agree

Yes, but you know what you're doing.

Grandma using it for email does not.
reply
UnKown @ 1st May 04:14PM:
Re: Illegal in the USA

depends on the rules of engagement. We are allowed to use lethal force if you attack us. He only stated that the department of the air force would attack back any computer that was attacking it.

Also in the oath taken by all military members you do state that you will defend this nation against all enemies foreign and domestic.
reply
UnKown @ 1st May 04:16PM:
Re: Ahh..

yup the navy enjoys being attacked, especially from the rear.
reply
OSUGoose @ 1st May 04:48PM:
Re: Wouldn't it violate several laws?

Easy Fix Civilian, Join the Military, then you wouldent get in trouble!
reply
mdaddyrabbit @ 1st May 04:53PM:
Re: Nice picture, but

Agreed!
reply
The Folsom @ 1st May 05:43PM:
Re: Illegal in the USA

said by N3OGH :

Well I'd piss on the damn spark plug if I thought it would work!
"How about a nice game of chess?"
--
A filthy mind is a terrible thing to waste.

reply
Celia @ 1st May 06:03PM:
Re: Wouldn't it violate several laws?

nah, just kill them before they kill you...
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DavePR @ 1st May 06:20PM:
Re: Illegal in the USA

[BQUOTE=UnKown

Also in the oath taken by all military members you do state that you will defend this nation against all enemies foreign and domestic.
[/BQUOTE

Does not. It says you'll defend the Constitution, not the nation. The idea is what you swear to defend, not the people, not the buildings, not the land.
reply
anon @ 1st May 07:09PM:
Re: Windows ME still running?

lol, of course ME still run's, i have a 9 year old ibm thinkpad i series 1400 w/ ME on it & yes, it still rocks. i guess it just depends on how literate you really are when it comes to keeping something running correctly. btw, we also have 1 w95 & 2-98's up on the same network as our 2k, xp & vista machines. 7 machines total. i just had to have one for each room in the house.
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russotto @ 1st May 07:44PM:
Re: Ahh..

said by UnKown :

yup the navy enjoys being attacked, especially from the rear.
That's the British navy -- they like rum and the lash as well.
reply
packetscan @ 1st May 10:22PM:
Isp Intergration

If they want the ability to "take out" computers work with the isps to brick modems when needed.
--
Reach out and Tap someone!
reply
tamayo @ 1st May 11:38PM:
Re: Isp Intergration

Don't worry. O-6 Williamson is just a lawyer who couldn't make in in the civilian world:

COL. CHARLES W. (CHARLIE) WILLIAMSON III is the staff judge advocate, Air Force Intelligence, Surveillance and Reconnaissance Agency, at Lackland Air Force Base, Texas. He has served as a flight test manager for small, air-breathing missiles; as a judge advocate at two base-level legal offices; as a staff judge advocate for two base-level legal offices; and as the first staff judge advocate for the Joint Task Force-Computer Network Operations. The views expressed here are the author’s own and do not necessarily reflect those of the Air Force or Defense Department.
reply
colorbars @ 2nd May 02:21AM:
Re: Illegal in the USA

I got a better one. Same character.

"After very careful consideration I have come to the conclusion that your 'new defense system' sucks."
reply
mc5w @ 2nd May 02:45AM:
Re: Illegal in the USA

Except when enforcing Federal drug laws, federal racketeering laws, or apprehending Federal fugitives.

The Posse Comitatus Act only pertains to the military providing assistance in enforcement of state law. Even then, any U.S. citizen can apprehend a felon just as long as they are not using cannons or tanks.
reply
RR Conductor @ 2nd May 05:16AM:
Re: Illegal in the USA

said by The Folsom :

said by N3OGH :

Well I'd piss on the damn spark plug if I thought it would work!
"How about a nice game of chess?"
No, Global Thermonuclear War

Fine...Choose your side

1.US
2.Russia
reply
pnh102 @ 2nd May 07:08AM:
Re: Illegal in the USA

said by mc5w :

Except when enforcing Federal drug laws, federal racketeering laws, or apprehending Federal fugitives.
I don't seem to remember any cases of the US military being involved in these cases domestically. How often does it happen?
--
Blagojevich / Madoff 2012!
reply
Technogeez @ 2nd May 10:50AM:
And if they can't digit you off the network...

Don't forget smart bombs and teams of special operations warriors with laser designators... ;-)

This would not be "police" activity -- this is force protection, and is ALWAYS authorized by standing Rules of Engagement.
--
Read your contract and TOS before signing anything.
reply
boast @ 2nd May 11:03AM:
Re: HAHAHA

That can't happen. Microsoft Releases Super-Secure XP to US Air Force!
reply
Tomek @ 2nd May 12:48PM:
Re: Illegal in the USA

Military has policy to fight enemy, foreign or domestic.
But yeah botnets are an issue, especially those outside of US control.
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mastervirus @ 2nd May 06:45PM:
Re: Wouldn't it violate several laws?

if the old ip address was then issued to you and you were not attacking them they would just log it and continue from there but i dont agree with them trying to be able to crush any box they "say" is BAD but there really isnt anything we are going to be able to do but encrypt info patch and inform others.
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The Folsom @ 2nd May 07:53PM:
Re: Illegal in the USA

said by colorbars :

I got a better one. Same character.

"After very careful consideration I have come to the conclusion that your 'new defense system' sucks."
"I don't have to take that from you, you pig-eyed sack of shit!" :D
--
A filthy mind is a terrible thing to waste.

reply
John Galt @ 3rd May 04:31AM:
Re: Illegal in the USA

said by pnh102 :

Except for the fact that punishing US citizens for breaking the law is a task that is exclusively delegated to civilian police forces.
Actually, the courts are the ones that "punish" law-breakers, not the police forces.
--
A is A
reply
old_wiz_60 @ 3rd May 06:33PM:
gunships

More likely they would send in a helicopter gunship and start shooting.
reply
sivran @ 4th May 11:09AM:
Re: Nice picture, but

So cruel. How could you do that to such a cute face? :o
[att=1]

awww...
reply
Maggs @ 4th May 12:51PM:
Re: Illegal in the USA

Posse Comitatus is no longer in force. Bush did away with it.
reply
anon @ 9th May 11:03AM:
Re: Ahh..

yawn...
reply

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