Verizon: Metered Broadband Is Coming - As long as consumers are stupid enough to allow it...
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Verizon: Metered Broadband Is Coming As long as consumers are stupid enough to allow it... 04:14PM Tuesday Sep 29 2009 by Karl Bode tags: business · bandwidth · Op/Ed · net-neutrality · Verizon FIOS · Verizon Online DSL Tipped by needforspeed59
There's not a broadband provider out there who wouldn't instantly begin billing you by the byte if they thought you (the consumer) would sign off on it. Unfortunately for them, Time Warner Cable's recent PR disaster illustrated that consumers aren't sold on low caps and high overages when broadband delivery costs continue to drop. Many customers may be stupid, but they can apparently read an ISP's 10-K form, which shows that flat-rate billing provides broadband operators with very healthy profits. There's only one way that the broadband industry is hoisting metered billing on a wary public, and that's if all broadband carriers embrace the idea at once. Since most broadband users only have the choice of one or two carriers, if the industry made a collective shift to per-byte billing there's very little consumers could do about it. With AT&T, Comcast and Time Warner Cable all either engaged in metered billing trials or consistently thinking about it, that leaves Verizon standing in the way of the ultimate investor pipe dream: billing you by the byte. Right now, the competitive threat of uncapped FiOS acts as a deterrent to companies in Verizon's territory eager to cap or meter. Verizon has consistently told us they have no plans for metered billing, though they've been careful to use vague language that left the door open to the possibility. Back in May the company's CEO strongly hinted at a metered future, and today Verizon CTO Dick Lynch gave investors the strongest hint yet (see Telephony Online and GigaOM) that a per-byte future awaits you: When asked how Verizon would meet the burgeoning demand for bandwidth for Internet video and other services, Lynch admitted "the concept of a flat-rated infinitely expanding service for everyone just won�t work." "We are going to reach a point where we will sell packages of bites," (sic) Lynch said. "Now I�m not announcing a new pricing plan. But we have already gone this way in wireless because that is where the resource is most constrained." It's pretty clear right now that Verizon's primarily interested in making sure that net neutrality rules don't prohibit creative pricing models (not that the industry has presented any), but it's also pretty clear they're interested. For now Verizon will use all that uncapped GPON capacity to sock it to cable competitors. But eventually, execs like Lych will realize that the only way Verizon can retain the kind of power they're used to in an evolved broadband ecosystem is by creating artificial scarcity and squeezing the bandwidth pipe. It's not a matter of if, but a matter of when. And when Verizon decides to fully embrace metered billing, watch out. While Time Warner Cable flubbed their attempt to ransack your wallet like a randy teenager over-eagerly fumbling with consumer bra straps, Verizon, who's a little more experienced in nickle and diming, will make no such mistakes. Verizon's shown they're a lobbying, PR and spin juggernaut, and if anyone can convince American consumers that paying already very profitable companies more money for less product is wonderful and fair, Verizon can. Related:- Is Verizon Considering Metered Billing?
- Verizon Continues Proud History Of Denial
- AT&T: Google Is The Enemy Of Nuns
- Neutrality Rules Won't Impact Investment
- FiOS Deployment Slowing?
- Verizon's Hanging Up On Rural America
- Verizon's $1.99 Phantom Fee Returns
- Verizon Again Hints At Metered Billing
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brianiscool @ 29th Sep 03:42PM:
haha
bye unlimited bandwidth
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Pathfinder @ 29th Sep 03:45PM:
Great quoting
said by article :
"We are going to reach a point where we will sell packages of bites,
But I want the whole sandwich!
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jmn1207 @ 29th Sep 03:47PM:
Re: Great quoting
said by Pathfinder : said by article :
"We are going to reach a point where we will sell packages of bites,
But I want the whole sandwich!
Don't be bytter. :)
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AstroBoy @ 29th Sep 03:55PM:
Re: Great quoting
said by Pathfinder : said by article :
"We are going to reach a point where we will sell packages of bites,
But I want the whole sandwich!
No problem, but it will cost extra! Oh, did you want fries with that? $$$
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XBL2009 @ 29th Sep 03:57PM:
Stop bringing it up Karl
Seems like Karls harping on this subject is only going to create the problem he fears.
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en102 @ 29th Sep 03:58PM:
Why stop at very healthy profits?
said by Karl Bode :
Many customers may be stupid, but they can apparently read an ISP's 10-K form, which shows that flat-rate billing provides broadband operators with very healthy profits.
If I was a CEO or business analyst for a company and saw the following:
1. Providing a 'premium' essentially unresticted service (in which customers are flocking to)
2. Need money to pay off all those fiber builds
3. Fact is that bandwidth is becoming a commodity
4. Investors ALWAYS want higher ROI
Wouldn't you implement billing by the byte as well ?
--
Canada = Hollywood North
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anon @ 29th Sep 04:00PM:
hmmmmm
seems like the perfect business model if I have ever seen one. Yeah, I use the internet everyday all day for $40/month and someone next door checks email twice and pays $40/month...the current system makes total sense Karl. You may be the biggest jackass on the internet
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anon @ 29th Sep 04:06PM:
Re: Stop bringing it up Karl
sure and if maybe... if we all just shutup it will all go away...
Thats a pipe dream my friend....
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fireflier @ 29th Sep 04:01PM:
Interesting imagery.
"While Time Warner Cable flubbed their attempt to ransack your wallet like a randy teenager over-eagerly fumbling with consumer bra straps"
Sometimes I have to wonder how Karl comes up with these witticisms and analogies. He must read a lot of, ahem, romance novels or something. . . ;)
--
Tradition: Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid. --despair.com
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Koil @ 29th Sep 04:04PM:
Re: hmmmmm
Do you think that you're going to pay for what you use?? Please. The base cost whether you use 2 "bites" or less is still going to be $20 - $30 bucks, and upwards from there. Not to mention that the low cap scenario is just a pure $$$ maker.
I'm not saying that metered billing can't work, but please...think with your head about how this will really go down, and know that $$$$ talks.
God, I hope there is some type of competition that can spawn from this, and take these dicks down.
--
Let us so live that when we come to die, even the undertaker will be sorry. -Mark Twain
My Blog - Raising Connor - »raisingconnor.blogspot.com/ - updated 3/11/09
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morbo @ 29th Sep 04:05PM:
Re: Why stop at very healthy profits?
Short term gain over long term prosperity? I dunno. Seems like a bad idea. It will definitely breathe new life into muni broadband systems.
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Karl Bode @ 29th Sep 04:13PM:
Re: hmmmmm
seems like the perfect business model if I have ever seen one.
I bet you phone company employees say that to ALL the unreasonable business models, you handsome devil.Yeah, I use the internet everyday all day for $40/month and someone next door checks email twice and pays $40/month...
The great "but it's only fair" argument (TM) only works if you're willing to charge the 2 e-mail a day user his or her fair share: about $5 a month. Which, you won't.You may be the biggest jackass on the internet
Thank you!
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Karl Bode @ 29th Sep 04:14PM:
Re: Interesting imagery.
I am one of the leading contributors to Fabio fan fiction on the Internet!
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cableties @ 29th Sep 04:21PM:
If I had grand kids...
"That's right. Back in 2010, we used to have 50MB/sec download, unlimited...we could download music, and videos, and bittorrent illegal warez, and even get movies right to our gaming consoles!"
"Grandpa, everybody knows that you aren't allowed to download anything anymore. Not without credits. Silly grandpa..."
"Oh, and bread was only $1.25 a loaf back then!" :D
--
Splat
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richdelb @ 29th Sep 04:29PM:
Having it both ways?
This will solve "net neutrality" once and for all.
Bill like the REGULATED Electric, Gas, or Water Company.
ComEd doesn't tell me what I can or can't plug into my wall socket, so why should "ma bell?"
They bill a regulated rate, by the byte, and the CONSUMER decides what "appliances" they plug into the ISP.
Billing by the byte can work. Just regulate it like any Utility.
Then the ISP's can truly be "Dumb pipes" like they want to be...
Oh wait.... They don't want that do they....?
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anon @ 29th Sep 06:17PM:
Re: hmmmmm
First off you have no idea what the pricing model may or may not be, and from I can see just have 2 ISPs in my town has driven the price down so much so that I basically get each on taking off the price each year if I switch... so price is not even an issue yet... but as revenue models change so with the way we pay for service...
Oh and if you want to look at it from a realistic perspective - then how come ELECTRICITY AND HEAT are billed as METERED services ----- HMMMMMMM.... oh wait well that is different because of BLAH, BLAH, BLAH... no matter what the argument is all this site will do is bitch and moan about whatever it WANTS and not what the businesses who need to run the businesses need...
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anon @ 29th Sep 04:32PM:
msg deleted
deleted by a moderator
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neftv @ 29th Sep 04:32PM:
Re: If I had grand kids...
Fios should be left alone with just the per month fee. No-one mentioned that how Fios was started with government money to begin with at least the 2 some billion from Pennsylvania. So it was funded and built out with State money. I am happy to pay for S44.95 for my 20/5 connection not don't go adding other fees. Leave me alone.
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rdmiller @ 29th Sep 04:33PM:
How many movies?
How many broadband movies do I have to watch each day to reach the current cable cap? Until we have reliable data on this, Karl can write all the articles he wants and no one will pay any attention.
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en102 @ 29th Sep 04:35PM:
Re: Why stop at very healthy profits?
If they set their rates 'decently' enough, then its not a big deal... yet (eg. Comcast set to 250GB?), vs. TWC was to set as low as 10-40GB. I 'personally' don't like caps/bill by the byte, etc. However, as always, these companies will set a 'value' to the consumption, and what was speed is now being converted to consumption.
Instead of Cable/TV offering 'faster tier' if you bundle (30/1Mbps is standard here on TWC with boost), they'll be offering double your allowable consumption.
If you get a DVR, HD, sports package,etc. You can have unlimited consumption.
--
Canada = Hollywood North
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stunod2002 @ 29th Sep 04:39PM:
Didn't we already do this once before?
Seems like this is the same pricing model employed during the ISDN days.. This didn't last as new technology came to be and pummeled it.
Just a thought, but I'd expect that the destruction to web based business like I-Tunes, Netfilx, Email, Any number of news outlets, etc.. will either kill this over time or keep it in check. Just think about it, If we have to pay for a song from I-Tunes and then also pay for the right to download it how many people are going to just not download that song? Apple alone could stand to loose a crap load of business and would certainly begin to stand up for the average consumer.
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expert007 @ 29th Sep 04:41PM:
I'm fine
with metered billing...but
1) The meter better work correctly.
2) The price per byte/unit better not gouge.
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BF69 @ 29th Sep 04:42PM:
Re: hmmmmm
said by factcheckers :
seems like the perfect business model if I have ever seen one. Yeah, I use the internet everyday all day for $40/month and someone next door checks email twice and pays $40/month...the current system makes total sense Karl. You may be the biggest jackass on the internet
Yeah except you assume that one ISPs go to metered billing that guy that only checks e-mailis going to get a reduced price. He isn't. He's still going to pay $40/month. YOU however will be paying more. It'd be different if he was going to only be charged $15 a month. Then metered billing would have some validity.
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tmc8080 @ 29th Sep 04:42PM:
monopoly part 2
Soon(er than you think) it will come time to break up the big 3 telecom companies: Verizon, At&t, and Comcast into itty bitty bits...
the first round was for Plain Old Telephone Service, this next round (was probably inevitable) will be for broadband.
Yes, it's a matter when, not if... but what it means is these companies will be broken down as they have too much control of the last mile. Alot of trust & faith was put in them and exclusions to competition made... (ie conditions of merger). Once that fundamental trust is broken, they no longer deserve either their A. Pole position lock on the last mile infrastructure, or B. Market size as a corporation. We will see which is option they like the least...
Maybe these 3 companies think consumers have been asleep as to the unfair business practices & anti-competitive nature of these companies, but they're not.. The tippng point will come when Verizon uses its market power to charge higher prices AND charge by the bit. Make no mistake, they put at risk their entire investment in FTTP on the line which is nearing 30 Billion and more contractual commitments made which are in process. There's more at stake than the ability to consume as much badwidth as one wants.. freedom to choose amongst providers was exchanged for good stewardship of the last mile.. for companies to limit, sell off (unprofitable ROI geographies), lobby away competition and other deceptive & anti-consumer practices they will have a reckoning coming sooner or later and will have to answer for these behaviors. The only difference is Comcast will be in the mix of regulation of the telcom industry as a major broadband player.. no longer are cable companies exempt from scrutiny as well.
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Corehhi @ 29th Sep 04:45PM:
Re: If I had grand kids...
said by cableties :
"That's right. Back in 2010, we used to have 50MB/sec download, unlimited...we could download music, and videos, and bittorrent illegal warez, and even get movies right to our gaming consoles!"
"Grandpa, everybody knows that you aren't allowed to download anything anymore. Not without credits. Silly grandpa..."
"Oh, and bread was only $1.25 a loaf back then!" :D
I miss being able to take my copy of Windows and be able to use it on another computer, and another and another. Only fair for what they charge for an OS.
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axiomatic @ 29th Sep 04:47PM:
No no and no.
Emphatically NO!
My wife and I both work for the same employer. Think largest PC manufacturer on the planet. But my employer no longer gives us money for our net connection. With my wifes BUSINESS VPN usage we go well over the 250Gb Comcast cap with just her work traffic. (Shes a webmaster.) Then if I VPN work from home sometimes, or just play games over the internet along with 3 Tivos all with heavy users (kids) in my house with Netflix streaming and Amazon Unbox rentals, 1 PS3, 2 XBOX 360's, 1 Wii, 2 PSPs, 1 Nintendo DS, we sometimes hit around 350 - 400Gb /month.
So basically there is no option for me. Moving to a business line is about it and the price is astronomical compared to the Premium Triple-Play. So I am already paying a $300/month bill to Comcast.
How much more do these blood sucking leeches want? They are making a mint off of me already.
Overages will only cause me to unhook some of the devices from my home. So now these caps and overages are now not only hurting me but they are also going to hurt Tivo, Microsoft, Sony, Nintendo, Slingbox, Netflix, Amazon, and others I'm sure I have forgotten, incomes from me using and buying from their online services, and even more importantly my employers productivity.
I just don't think an ISP can be anything other than a dumb pipe. To act any differently effects too many things.
Were I Tivo, Microsoft, Sony, Nintendo, Slingbox, Netflix, Amazon, et all I would be fighting this tooth and nail. When us consumers have to not use CE devices just so I can avoid an ISP raping my wallet these companies profits are going to suffer. And guess what, those companies are also paying an ISP so I can get to their product. It just doesn't make any sense. Those companies paid good money for their internet connection (far higher than what I pay) so I can use their product. If users stop using those products due to these caps, were I one of those companies, I would be livid right now. (Just thought of one more industry who will suffer. The power company providing me power. If I have to unhook some of these devices because of the caps then they too are hurt.)
I am the perfect family of consumers. All of our net traffic is 100% legal, its all making money for the various companies products I have purchased. Yet my ISP is putting in place a system where everyone except the ISP looses something. What gives?
(P.S. I was just accepted for the OnLive beta as well. WTF are they going to do? Their whole business model is based on fast internet connections.)
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amungus @ 29th Sep 04:53PM:
Re: How many movies?
Not many. I and many others have posted the (very simple) math.
For ease of understanding, let's say a movie is 1GB.
1GB/day = 30-31GB in one month.
Add updates (OS/Anti-virus/etc. x 3 computers) at let's say, 100MB/month as a conservative estimate. Say 3 computers need a service pack - you're screwed.
Point is, it's a total sham. Karl also pointed out in his comment here that to be "fair" let's go ahead and charge some folks who BARELY use the 'net $5 if that's what it costs. Won't happen. There will ALWAYS be a baseline that is FAR beyond what it actually costs to deliver service, even after ROI has been met 10x over.
Further reading on the math, and my thoughts can be had here:
»Astoundingly Moronic
»Re: Sounds reasonable to me
»these aren't the internets you're looking for...
People are paying attention, even if some don't want to believe it...
Oh, and my favorite argument just in case nobody wants to read the 3rd link where I rant about this:
STOP upgrading speeds if capacity isn't there.
Leave speeds right where they are until capacity can keep up.
Simple argument that nobody dares touch.
Thing is, that's how things have traditionally moved to where they are today.
This 'metered' business is more a move to piss off people, side-step network neutrality, and make BANK than ANYTHING to do with true capabilities. IF it weren't, then leave speeds alone until it can be handled, growth included (which hasn't been that much in the past couple years - it's SLOWED according to this and other sites, except maybe Fios because they're expanding to new areas...).
They'd still make money hand over fist, and wouldn't piss of the netizens who don't deserve to be bent over like this.
Is there really any argument against that line of thought? If so, I'd really love to hear it.
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mod_wastrel @ 29th Sep 04:54PM:
By the byte?
Buy the byte?
Buh-bye Verizon... buh-bye broadband. 
Tell ya what... when all any ISPs start charging by the byte, then that's when we should start charging them by the byte for their use of public rights-of-way for laying their cables... yeah, that's the ticket! (usage based taxing: all monies going to implement and maintain [more] public APs at local libraries and such) 
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amungus @ 29th Sep 04:58PM:
Re: No no and no.
BINGO!
And in the not-too-distant-future, more and more households will catch up to this level of use if they aren't already.
Solution besides this 'metered' hogwash?
...Stop playing ignorant poor little ISP and quit upgrading 'speed' if you can't handle capacity...
Oh, and leave the internet the frak alone, please. These are most definitely not the droids they are looking for ;)
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BF69 @ 29th Sep 04:59PM:
Re: I'm fine
said by expert007 :
with metered billing...but
1) The meter better work correctly.
unlikely
2) The price per byte/unit better not gouge.
Most likely they will gouge. Doubtfull they will only charge 10 cents per GB.
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funchords @ 29th Sep 05:03PM:
Karl Bode's Word Poetry
"Time Warner Cable flubbed their attempt to ransack your wallet like a randy teenager over-eagerly fumbling with consumer bra straps..."
HA-ha-HA-ha-HA-ha-HA-ha-HA-ha!
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funchords @ 29th Sep 05:05PM:
Re: Why stop at very healthy profits?
said by en102 :
3. Fact is that bandwidth is becoming a commodity
...that becomes cheaper to provide every year.
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Cjaiceman @ 29th Sep 05:10PM:
Re: If I had grand kids...
said by cableties :
"That's right. Back in 2010, we used to have 50MB/sec download, unlimited...we could download music, and videos, and bittorrent illegal warez, and even get movies right to our gaming consoles!"
"Grandpa, everybody knows that you aren't allowed to download anything anymore. Not without credits. Silly grandpa..."
"Oh, and bread was only $1.25 a loaf back then!" :D
Your age is showing, you might want to cover that up! :D :p
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me1212 @ 29th Sep 05:11PM:
hmmmm
Could we be in the verge of an internet revolution? If everyone meters/caps, then smaller isps come and offer un-metered/unlimited bandwidth, even though it may not be as fast. Which would you go to for the 'same' price? A 4/2(just random numbers btw) for 40-ish or a 15/6 with 80GB starting at 40-ish and $1.00 for each GB after?
If only I were older.
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dlewis23 @ 29th Sep 05:11PM:
Re: No no and no.
said by axiomatic :
How much more do these blood sucking leeches want? They are making a mint off of me already.
They want your $1.50 per GB over. lol. So with your ~100 GB over that add's another $150 to your already high bill.
The funny thing here is the web hosting industry which has always had strict bandwidth caps, and high overage charges for the most part is moving away from the model and regular ISP's are adapting there old model.
Comcast charges $1.50 per GB overage on there single network, one of my server providers charges 0.10 cents per GB overage and they have 9 providers they have to pay.
Another provider gives me 10TB with a server for $99 a month. And I can use every byte of that 10TB and they are never gonna complain. I found one where anyone can buy a 100 Mbps unmetered connection (33.3 TB) for only 129 bucks a month.
There is no bandwidth shortage, and there networks can take the usage as long as they do there normal upgrades over time.
Bandwidth caps is just an attempt by ISP's to hold off from doing upgrades, get some extra income, and and by some a way to cut down on some internet usage somewhat.
I have no problem with bandwidth caps, as long as the cap is fair. When a ISP provides a 20 Mbps connection but only gives 250 GB or less bandwidth per month thats just wrong.
They should a minimum provide 1/3 of the total bandwidth that connection is capable of. So if they sell a 10 Mbps connection then they should have a 1TB cap with it.
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Lazlow @ 29th Sep 05:14PM:
Re: Having it both ways?
Where by the byte fails is that it is not related to any of the ISP's costs. Both hardware costs and transit cost are based on peak Mbps not GB/month. ANY downloading that an individual does during off peak hours incurs no additional costs for the ISP. The hardware needs to be there in order to handle the peak demand in the 5pm to 11pm (usually) hours. The same applies for transit costs.
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BF69 @ 29th Sep 05:15PM:
Re: How many movies?
said by amungus :
Not many. I and many others have posted the (very simple) math.
For ease of understanding, let's say a movie is 1GB.
1GB/day = 30-31GB in one month.
Actually a movie downloaded from XBL or Itunes or Amazon or PSN usually runs closer to 2 GB and if you want a 720P HD verison it's about 6 GB per movie.
whating 2 hours of Hulu a day at their LOW resolution is about 20 GB a month.
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anon @ 29th Sep 05:16PM:
Business model
If I were forced into a metered billing (This is in anticipation that the ISP doesn't let me stay grandfathered in) and were put under a cap of 100gb per month...doesn't that mean I am buying 100gb per month? So since I am buying 100gb per month, shouldn't the ISP roll over my unused bandwidth that I purchased or credit me on my next month's bill for the unused bandwidth?
Metered billing with a respectable "cap" isn't the end of all things as long as the pricing model that accompanies it is based in common sense and consumer goodwill. What cannot be tolerated is something ridiculous like a 10gb cap.
I very much agree with an early post about how companies' whose business models will be diminished if not outright destroyed should be on the side of us consumers instead of wallflowers.
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Lazlow @ 29th Sep 05:16PM:
Re: Stop bringing it up Karl
If we do not continue to bring it up, they will just put it in place. Probably the only reason all the ISPs have not gone this route is due to the stink that is raised about it (usually here).
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funchords @ 29th Sep 05:17PM:
The GigaOm piece has some warning signs
»gigaom.com/2009/09/29/metered-br···zon-cto/
Lynch’s comments came amid a broad discussion about net neutrality, notably how a carrier can manage its network and deliver quality applications without running afoul of the principles. Given the rise in high-bandwidth applications and services Lynch said, “We believe that you have to be allowed to have a level of service that is not on a public Internet. What you’re suggesting is different kind of IP service that’s not delivered over the public Internet and that needs to be part of the option set in the argument.”
While he admitted that there are legitimate fears around net neutrality that need to be addressed, he differentiated between the public Internet and the idea of services that will require more than a best effort attempt at delivery. However, he said, “There are services that will not be happy on the public Internet, and we don’t want to be in a place where we have to provide the public Internet as the only place to deliver those services.”
That's rather non-technical talk for the Chief Technology Officer at Verizon, but it smacks of the notion that Verizon wants to be able to prioritize their premium services over those on the general-purpose Internet.
That's just wrong. I want to access my general-purpose Internet and just because you convince some other customer to pay $1 more than I do doesn't mean you get to take my access away in order to provide his.
--
Robb Topolski -= funchords.com =- District of Columbia -- KJ7RL
Test your Broadband connection today! -- »measurementlab.net/
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anon @ 29th Sep 06:16PM:
Re: Why stop at very healthy profits?
It only becomes cheaper every year if you stop putting money into upgrading the infrastructure that provides the bandwidth.
After GPON, they're going to need 10GPON, then 100GPON. Those upgrades aren't free, and must be considered part of the bandwidth cost.
And that's not even including upgrading their backbone links to multiple 100Gbit connections to serve the 10GPON and 100GPON nodes.
The cost of bandwidth itself goes down (at a very slow pace recently) but the cost of upgrades to deliver more bandwidth to the end user does not go down, and is variable compared to bandwidth costs.
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avpronald @ 29th Sep 05:24PM:
Metered Broadband Is Coming
I want to know is verizion going to make us pay for all the bytes of advertising that are forced upon us on every site we visit.
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ShellMMG @ 29th Sep 05:26PM:
Re: I'm fine
Do you have a router? Are there others in your home who use the internet?
Meters. Are. EVIL. Period.
Nothing is more frustrating than a 7.5G average per month cap. It's worse if you have teenagers who like YouTube or more than one computer that requires software updates. Anyone who's lived with Wildblue or Hughesnet can tell you all about why you should ALWAYS fight the threat of a cap.
The ISPs are going to want to implement cappage sooner rather than later. If they get most of the country wired with cable or FIOS, THEN try to hit them with caps there will be a huge outcry when those capped bills arrive. You can't have a situation where most people are used to online gaming, downloading the latest episode of Glee and using VoIP on a constant basis, then slapping a cap on all of that. You think the public outcry over health care is loud? Just wait.
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NormanS @ 29th Sep 05:27PM:
Re: If I had grand kids...
You're saying Pennsylvania dollars went to New Jersey and Oregon? Interesting.
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anon @ 29th Sep 05:28PM:
This Doesn't Solve Anything
Bandwidth is just a tool used for profit... essentially bandwidth has only one true purpose; and that's to measure the amount of data you send and receive in a given time. All these companies are trying to do is add a money sign next to it and everyone is falling for it. Now if grandma is paying $20 a month to check her e-mail that's her choice... if this is such a big issue than all Verizon and other companies would have to do in this popular example is simply make a small plan with very little upload/download speeds at a cheap price... since you don't need whopping speeds for such a thing anyways. With such weak upload/download speeds, I highly doubt it could ever consume large amounts of bandwidth even if both streams were constantly peaked the entire month. Even by her being connected 24/7, if she's not consuming any bandwidth it doesn't affect anyone, her, or the network. I already told Verizon to put me on the disconnect list for when they make this change and that I will be spreading the word for others to do so around my area. Find a better solution instead of praying on the public to fuel your corporation with more money, greed and power.
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avpronald @ 29th Sep 05:28PM:
Something to think about
I want to know is verizion going to make us pay for all the bytes of advertising that are forced upon us on every site we visit. what about pop ups?
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anon @ 29th Sep 06:18PM:
Re: hmmmmm
said by factcheckers :
seems like the perfect business model if I have ever seen one. Yeah, I use the internet everyday all day for $40/month and someone next door checks email twice and pays $40/month...the current system makes total sense Karl. You may be the biggest jackass on the internet
Of course the current business model makes total sense. BECAUSE the person that only checks his email twice a day and pays $40/month to do it is EXACTLY the reason there shouldn't be caps with overage charges. Because the average user paying $40 a month isn't using anywhere near $40 worth of bandwidth.
I have seen a very large ISP's broadband residential customer average bits/second when averaged out over all customers from 2008. The average, 42kbit/sec. Yes, you read that right. No, I cannot tell you the ISP.
And it wasn't a surprise to me at all when I saw the numbers. Because I have always known this was the case for the average user. Yes, there are probably times when that average users is watching videos or downloading something, and they certainly spike up to higher speeds. But you average out their usage for a whole year, and you get 42kbit/sec.
I'd rather the current business model continue, where the 42kbit/sec for $40 users are supplementing my well above average usage for $40 with no cap and no overage fee.
ISP's need to focus on killing off the users that go through 1TB or 2TB of data a month, those are the ones that hurt individual nodes. And no one is going to want those people as customers once they get them, unless those people are willing to pay a lot more for service.
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axiomatic @ 29th Sep 05:35PM:
Re: Something to think about
Agreed. If I keep running afoul of my ISP's cap something has to give, and advertising is a great place to start.
I would also imagine that if the whole internet starts having to filter the advertisements out with something like "AdBlock Plus" for Firefox then I would hope the unimaginable would happen and possibly these advertisers may get involved in the argument against the caps.
I'm not sure I am ready to agree with an advertisers opinion just yet. ;-) Too used to hating them.
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gorehound @ 29th Sep 05:35PM:
Re: haha
this will really suck for all of us except if you are rich or you are a large ISP.
I am poor and already pay slime warner 60 bucks a month for shoddy service.
i wish there was a way we could all do something about it but it is not to happen.the bigwig assholes will screw us all over in the end.
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anon @ 29th Sep 05:44PM:
Metered billing
In the not too distant future, broadband will be a public utility and all these providers will be out of the loop completely. Broadband will be the marketplace and it will not be restricted in any way. Metered billing is a pipe dream as is Verizon's, Comcast, et al's ability to control it.
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ShellMMG @ 29th Sep 05:47PM:
Re: Something to think about
I use AdBlock but I've never been able to find out whether it stops the ad before it's been downloaded or just prevents it from appearing in my browser?
New companies are a good thing, but I'd really rather not see a boom in anti-ad software and premium prices. If consumers have to waste a lot of time and money trying to keep from going over their caps, what will they cut? When the cost of gas went up to over $4 a gallon, people cut back. If caps come down consumers will have to decide what online services they'll do without. No more online radio (which hurt me because I have no reception to speak of). Parents will want to know how they can completely block sites like Netflix, Hulu, YouTube, iTunes and many more so their kids don't "steal" unapproved bandwidth.
I've been through all this as a Wildblue customer. You can tinker with your browser settings to stop graphics from loading but again that's a lot of time wasted babysitting.
How will this affect coffee shops that market free wifi? Wendys, Applebees, Biggby...so many restaurants and hotels will have their business models hit hard. Someone needs to do a big poll to find out what customers will do to keep their bandwith usage low.
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decifal @ 29th Sep 05:55PM:
ha!
K, dialup is looking to be better and better as i'm forced to stay with it :-)
Christ by the time I have services here, the internet will be soo worthless and overpriced it might as well be one of Al Gores cars that he is co sponsoring to be made in finland that cost 89,000.. The rich can have them, but the poor cannot... Rapalism at its best... Information super nerfway here we come!!
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SLD @ 29th Sep 06:06PM:
Interesting - but deceiving
The cell companies keep packaging their minutes, especially for data. The current has always flowed from bill-for-usage to packaged services because there is more profit in it.
Getting consumers to purchase packaged or "unlimited" services opens their wallets to pay for service they under-utilize. Without these offerings, consumers for the most part, reduce their consumption, and these companies become stagnant.
This is about access to content and net neutrality, not bandwidth profit. Why else would service providers turn back the clock on only one part of their triple-play? Why do they fight so hard to prevent me from paying for ala carte?
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Trimline @ 29th Sep 06:15PM:
Re: Why stop at very healthy profits?
said by en102 : said by Karl Bode :
Many customers may be stupid, but they can apparently read an ISP's 10-K form, which shows that flat-rate billing provides broadband operators with very healthy profits.
Wouldn't you implement billing by the byte as well ?
Looks good on paper, but as soon as you do, your customer base will go else where. That's the fallacy yet to be understood by the CEO.
I say let it fly, and let the chips fall where they may. Bet Microsoft or Google would LOVE to provide unlimited bandwidth.
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Lee GWB @ 29th Sep 06:16PM:
Complain
Simple... Just write them and bitch.
Lee
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sykchyld @ 29th Sep 06:20PM:
Re: Metered Broadband Is Coming
Verizon wont meter. It has to much to loose being that FiOS is so young.
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firedrakes @ 29th Sep 06:32PM:
good luck
like comcast it going to hit them in the face when people notice it
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Wizeguy @ 29th Sep 06:40PM:
Re: hmmmm
I'm with you on that!!! I'd go slower, cheaper and as the Verizon trucks sweep my block give them the grand salute.
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birdfeedr @ 29th Sep 06:44PM:
Re: haha
said by gorehound :
i wish there was a way we could all do something about it
Envision yourself not enslaved to the big ISP and start your own flat-rate ISP. Absent that, decide how you want to spend your broadband pennies and stick to your budget. Absent that, make friends with the people at the library, which will probably be the last bastion of (taxpayer-funded) free internet. Absent that, cut yourself free.
ISPs are salivating at the chance to go to per-byte billing but it will still be a couple years before it's ubiquitous. By then, there will be enough of a cultural paradigm shift that it will not be embarassing to admit at a cocktail party that you're still on dial-up. It will be chic, tres chic.
Dial-up has a smaller carbon footprint. :D
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Snickerdo @ 29th Sep 06:57PM:
Re: hmmmm
said by me1212 :
Could we be in the verge of an internet revolution? If everyone meters/caps, then smaller isps come and offer un-metered/unlimited bandwidth, even though it may not be as fast.
No. They do what happened up here, and get the regulators who are stocked full of former telco execs to force the indie ISPs to bill by the byte, too.
Broadband trends generally occur in Canada before they occur in the USA by 2-5 years. If what's going on up here is any indication, you're all fucked.
--
Give a man a hooker and he'll have fun for a night. Teach a man how to hire a hooker and he'll have fun for a lifetime.
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Eek2121 @ 29th Sep 07:00PM:
Goodbye Verizon...
The day large providers roll out metered pricing will be the day i start rolling out fiber door to door. One can only hope that Verizon and other large providers would be so foolish as to think they can charge $1.00-$2.00 a gigabyte + a normal $30-$40 connection fee. All of these independent ISPs will have the likes of verizon/cablevision/comcast for breakfast, lunch, AND dinner.
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jjeffeory @ 29th Sep 07:02PM:
Re: hmmmmm
Isn't your ISP verizon?
Wait, yes...
Shill!
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jjeffeory @ 29th Sep 07:04PM:
Re: Didn't we already do this once before?
Right, we're already paying for the connection and speed. Why should we be paying for this again... Terrible pricing model.
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jjeffeory @ 29th Sep 07:05PM:
Re: I'm fine
Oh, and we better NOT be paying for their advertising, spam, etc...
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jjeffeory @ 29th Sep 07:07PM:
Re: hmmmmm
For one thing, you control how much electricity and heat is used. With data, you do NOT directly control what you use. For example, there are ads pushed to you on a web page. There are commercials pushed to you on Hulu, etc. There is spam sent to you. There are DOS attacks and other thing that will eat your bandwidth.
The current way of doing things is just fine. You guys are going to kill the goose that lays the golden egg if your not careful.
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Tairei @ 29th Sep 07:10PM:
Use public/college wifi
I'd just start using public wifi(library, muni, etc) or my college wifi and simply not bother with it at home. Yeah it's a loss of convenience, but I'm not looking to give them anymore money than I have to. Soon as they switch to metered I'm canceling service and letting them know why.
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rdmiller @ 29th Sep 07:13PM:
Re: How many movies?
You mean I have to watch 30 movies a month! I can barely find two movies a month that I watch all the way to the end!
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old_wiz_60 @ 29th Sep 07:16PM:
Re: I'm fine
This will lead to a new round of ad blockers in web browsers and the advertisers won't be happy. tsk tsk.
Just think how unhappy the advertisers will be if not a single ad gets through to your screen!
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ptrowski @ 29th Sep 07:19PM:
Re: hmmmmm
said by Karl Bode :seems like the perfect business model if I have ever seen one.
I bet you phone company employees say that to ALL the unreasonable business models, you handsome devil.
Yeah, I use the internet everyday all day for $40/month and someone next door checks email twice and pays $40/month...
The great "but it's only fair" argument (TM) only works if you're willing to charge the 2 e-mail a day user his or her fair share: about $5 a month. Which, you won't.
You may be the biggest jackass on the internet
Thank you!
They forgot to tell you Karl that being called a jackass is now a term of endearment!
--
"So, Lone Starr, now you see that evil will always triumph because good is dumb."
Have you been touched by his noodly appendage? »www.venganza.org
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ptrowski @ 29th Sep 07:21PM:
Re: Metered Broadband Is Coming
said by sykchyld :
Verizon wont meter. It has to much to loose being that FiOS is so young.
I wish you were correct, but it will happen. If they can find a way to make it happen they will.
--
"So, Lone Starr, now you see that evil will always triumph because good is dumb."
Have you been touched by his noodly appendage? »www.venganza.org
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Murdoc @ 29th Sep 07:25PM:
Re: Why stop at very healthy profits?
said by en102 : said by Karl Bode :
Many customers may be stupid, but they can apparently read an ISP's 10-K form, which shows that flat-rate billing provides broadband operators with very healthy profits.
If I was a CEO or business analyst for a company and saw the following:
1. Providing a 'premium' essentially unresticted service (in which customers are flocking to)
2. Need money to pay off all those fiber builds
3. Fact is that bandwidth is becoming a commodity
4. Investors ALWAYS want higher ROI
Wouldn't you implement billing by the byte as well ?
So bandwidth is gonna be traded and or invested on commodity market? I can see speculators driving that way up already! Where does bandwidth come from? The middle east? It can't be that scarce, or running out! Its just a greedy corporate money grab.
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itguy05 @ 29th Sep 07:34PM:
Re: Why stop at very healthy profits?
For #1 - a premium service that people are flocking to because there are no caps. I'm in the process of starting online backups for our computers. Guess what? By the time I'm done, I'll have close to a TB of data this month across FIOS. 100% legal, legit, and needed.
If they cap it, I'm gone. I'll do with dial up if need be.
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Camelot One @ 29th Sep 07:55PM:
Re: hmmmmm
said by factcheckers :
First off you have no idea what the pricing model may or may not be
Neither Comcast nor TimeWarner reduced their prices 1 cent when they introduced caps. The neighbor who checks email twice a month is still paying as much as before. What in the world would make you think anyone would pay LESS under a new metered plan with Verizon - the kings of nickle and dime EXTRA charges?
And yes, the members of this site will very likely continue to bitch and moan about the idea. The only question is, why are you here?
--
Intel Q6600 @3400Mhz/GA-EP35-DS3P/4x 2048Mb G.Skill/WD Raptor 300Gb/3x WD20EADS 2TB/2x PNY GTX 260/Silverstone 850W/Custom water cooler
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anon @ 29th Sep 08:03PM:
Greed
It is all about money. First they will give service for free for x number of years, once you are hook and addicted then with a smile up to both ears they will start charge you up to the neck. This is why the reason I boycott and don't subscribe to cable TV. For TV - OTA is the future. Basic internet for news and email should be free foreverrrrr.
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kalanic00 @ 29th Sep 08:58PM:
Corporate Greed, consumer rapists.
ISPs in Alaska already enjoy this crap. Funny thing is that they do not have an accurate way of tracking usage.
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SuperJoker @ 29th Sep 09:39PM:
Re: Didn't we already do this once before?
Agreed, It's a stupid idea, But Verizon has a GREEDY CTO. :p
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Mrq5 @ 29th Sep 10:23PM:
Re: hmmmmm
said by jjeffeory :
For one thing, you control how much electricity and heat is used. With data, you do NOT directly control what you use. For example, there are ads pushed to you on a web page. There are commercials pushed to you on Hulu, etc. There is spam sent to you. There are DOS attacks and other thing that will eat your bandwidth.
The current way of doing thing Is is just fine. You guys are going to kill the goose that lays the golden egg if your not careful.
Actually this is a very important point that needs attention. We cant control all bandwidth to our computers via the Internet. This will certainly put a big dent into adverstising and other Online revenue (coincidently this would make the ISPs very happy in itself).
With this said I do feel a little of the ISPs pain...choke choke, I cant believe I just said that. Billions are being made via the Internet and ISPs just want more of the pie and not be the only one's stuck with the dirty work (lower profit margins, huge investments, tons of support staff, etc...) of providing the core network. Certainly I dont favor metered use but Im inclined to think that I would not be impacted since I am not a heavy downloader. If it must be metered it will only work if its seen to cut down on abuse, period. Maybe set caps during peak hours only. Meaning if you go over 250GB/Month during the time period of 5pm-11pm would you face overage charges. Any time spent online outside of these hours would not count towards the limit. Much like how the phone companies provide Unlimited use during non-peak hours. Just an example idea that could be tweaked since I am awaare there are abusers downloading 24/7.... but does this really negatively impact network performance outside of peak hours? Im not sure.
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aSic @ 29th Sep 10:33PM:
Re: Why stop at very healthy profits?
said by morbo :
Short term gain over long term prosperity? I dunno. Seems like a bad idea. ...
Isnt that what the federal government has been doing for the past few months? They've set quite an example to live up to. These pesky corporations are just following the leader.
--
Teamwork is a lot of people doing what I say.
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bear73 @ 29th Sep 11:08PM:
Re: Business model
well, lets parlay that into a similar situation.... cellphones... how many providers "roll over" unused minutes? just 1! CAPS ARE BAD... METERED BILLING IS BAD.... the new world we are in depends on unlimited usage. to limit that will crush a Huge Swath of income for an innumerable number of companies.
--
If ya gotta go, Go with a SMILE!
»www.thereligionofpeace.com/
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bgraham @ 29th Sep 11:32PM:
If the caps don't affect me I don't care.
If the caps are reasonable, i e maybe 500 or 1000 gigs per month, then I don't care. I understand that ISP's want to protect themselves from losses by a few users using hundreds of gigs per month.
I have a feeling that all ISP's want as customers are the people who pay $45 a month for a 20 meg connection and use it to check email and surf for 30 minutes a day.
Adding caps is a lot cheaper and easier than upgrading infrastructure and it provides instant profit.
If Verizon stopped sending advertisements to existing customers they could save a buck or two.
I love my FIOS 25/10 but $45 a month is all I am willing to pay.
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SnowyOne @ 30th Sep 12:47AM:
hoisting foisting, the ISP's all want to be rich as Thoiston
re "There's only one way that the broadband industry is hoisting metered billing on a wary public, and that's if all broadband carriers embrace the idea at once."
I believe that should read
"There's only one way that the broadband industry is foisting metered billing on a wary public, and that's if all broadband carriers embrace the idea at once.
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dvd536 @ 30th Sep 12:48AM:
Re: Great quoting
said by Pathfinder : said by article :
"We are going to reach a point where we will sell packages of bites,
But I want the whole sandwich!
then cough up some dough for the bread.
--
When I gez aju zavateh na nalechoo more new yonooz tonigh molinigh - Ken Lee
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dvd536 @ 30th Sep 12:54AM:
Re: If I had grand kids...
said by neftv :
Fios should be left alone with just the per month fee. No-one mentioned that how Fios was started with government money to begin with at least the 2 some billion from Pennsylvania. So it was funded and built out with State money. I am happy to pay for S44.95 for my 20/5 connection not don't go adding other fees. Leave me alone.
VZ would be shooting themselves in the foot if they went metered on fios.
--
When I gez aju zavateh na nalechoo more new yonooz tonigh molinigh - Ken Lee
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dvd536 @ 30th Sep 12:58AM:
Cord cutters
is what metered internet is all about!
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RolteC @ 30th Sep 01:33AM:
Re: Cord cutters
So everyone check this out;
Bandwidth prices have gone down, and will to forever go down each year/month even.
These companies are all posting profits.
These companies are laying off people.
These companies(the CEO's and anyone getting too much $), keep saying "the economy is bad, we must do something about it to make money"
WELL, what money do they need? They are already making 400times that per hour that a normal worker makes.
There bandwidth costs have gone DOWN.
Laid off workers have eased their payroll.
Yet, somehow most Americans still believe them.
I'm sick of this and how they are all taking advantage of us all.
They are taking a bad time in the economy, turning it around, creating newer charges, while decreasing costs even more, and just making themselves richer, and yet NO ONE does anything about this.
I can't wait to watch Michael Moore's movie. These stupid CEO's give out money to themselves, which the government gave them, and yet they lay off tons of people. Now how does this kind of sh!t fly in the country I don't understand.
If we said to hell with the CEO's call for help, and just let one company die, the others would get the business, and job would eventually be created.
And instead of government giving these companies billions, they should do what always worked in the past, and that's make public jobs, building stuff, infrastructure... Or better yet, spend the amount AIG received and pay for all Americans tuition to college, or even fix the stupid health care issue with Medicaid, or social security.
But no, this country does this the other way around, and somehow they still call everything a democracy.
Right.....
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ImBatman @ 30th Sep 01:33AM:
Re: Cord cutters
exactly.
I cant imagine living without the internet; but, i do remember pre 1993, I was doing just that.
I'll do it again.
Piss on verizon.
Piss on Time Warner.
Piss on every one of them damned greedy SOBs.
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PittsPgh @ 30th Sep 01:40AM:
Re: Something to think about
Once that ad hits your modem. Tag your it!! No matter what kind of ad blocker you have, you can't stop the data stream from hitting your modem and adding to your bandwith limit. I know just the normal net chatter/noise shows in my routers usage. It's not much but it does add up. might be just the little bit to put you over if you pushed your limit. Kind of like that extra credit card card fee to put you over your limit.
Paul
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PittsPgh @ 30th Sep 01:53AM:
Can't compare Apple to Oranges to Grapes
Can't compare Apple to Oranges to Grapes!! They way I read it when people try to compare Metered Electricity, Gas and Water to Bytes and bandwidth.
You might what to rethink that one. Think about how each of the resources come from and generated and processed.
I have yet to hear about any company drilling a couple miles into the ground to get some bytes to make some bandwidth. Or Filtering bits to purify them for a clean connection. Maybe the Hoover Dam has one of those huge generaters set aside to generate bandwidth.
Set the equipment up in a closet and keep it cool/warm,pay for the electric, and hope no one cuts the wire on you. Almost self sufficient. A lot lower maintenance compared to your normal utilities.
Paul
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en102 @ 30th Sep 02:05AM:
Re: Why stop at very healthy profits?
Ahh - but go where ? Telco ISP or Cable ISP... they're both out there for the bottom line.
There's nothing out there to stop Google or Microsoft from providing bandwidth. They could have gone into wireless on the 700MHz spectrum if they wanted to.
--
Canada = Hollywood North
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anon @ 30th Sep 08:04AM:
Re: Can't compare Apple to Oranges to Grapes
chuckles :D
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brisonic @ 30th Sep 02:10AM:
price tiers
There should be a higher price point for the user whose connection is literally maxed all day downloading warez, torrents etc. If one user ruins it for many, they should pay more.
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knightmb @ 30th Sep 02:52AM:
Re: haha
said by birdfeedr :said by gorehound :
i wish there was a way we could all do something about it
Envision yourself not enslaved to the big ISP and start your own flat-rate ISP. Absent that, decide how you want to spend your broadband pennies and stick to your budget. Absent that, make friends with the people at the library, which will probably be the last bastion of (taxpayer-funded) free internet. Absent that, cut yourself free.
Did that back in 2006, still doing unlimited flat-rate service. Truthfully, most customers don't care because they just check e-mail, you tube, play WOW, and surf websites. I have a few technical customers that enjoy the service for unlimited bandwidth and they exercise it daily. But it's amazing how smooth a network can run when you plan ahead for all the p2p, tv steaming customers ahead of time.
I have some customers churning out 1,000 simultaneous connections 24/7 via BitTorrent but it's not even noticeable on the service because well, we planned for that. Our focus was so much on connections and capacity that most customers will choke their own machines before they could ever choke our routers. Which we do have some that do that because of the *cough* Microsoft limitations that built into their TCP/IP stack code. I have seen some Linux customers burn up over 10,000 simultaneous connections before. Kind of funny to see the load list in the router logs with one IP address listed 10,000 times, LOL.
Not a big player like AT&T or Comcast *yet*, but if this keeps up, being the only ISP in town that doesn't bill by the byte is even more word of mouth advertising from our customers. :D
Even have a project in the works to give away free Internet service at a much lower speed of course, but it would be kind of a free public Internet like a library but without time wasted on filters. ;)
--
Fight Insight Ready (Was NebuAD) and the like:
Click Here to pollute their data
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espaeth @ 30th Sep 04:51AM:
Re: Can't compare Apple to Oranges to Grapes
said by PittsPgh :
Set the equipment up in a closet and keep it cool/warm,pay for the electric, and hope no one cuts the wire on you. Almost self sufficient. A lot lower maintenance compared to your normal utilities.
That position ignores upgrades, which are the entire basis behind the "bandwidth is getting cheaper" argument. If bandwidth utilization were fixed, then your assessment would be accurate.
As of yet, the gear doesn't replace itself when it comes time to upgrade, and the people doing the replacement don't work for free.
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anon @ 30th Sep 06:02AM:
be nice to those you meet on the way up...
just as long as you Verizon customers know the deal... if they screw with you, then its time to BOYCOTT the company in droves for ALL services from verizon, IN CONTRACT, OUT OF CONTRACT, tv, phone, internet, cell, ANYTHING VERIZON (stop paying the bills). poor customer service overrun with cancellations (now they'll know how it feels to be on the other side of running competition out of business). pre mega-mergers, they knew broadband was the lynchpin to saving the company.. but metered billing serves to be corosive acid to that lynchpin and the company will unravel-- and you can take that to what's left of the banks. as other's have said, Verizon is becoming more and more like At&t every day. Just because Verizon FIOS is such a good service today, doesn't mean that it won't be an overpriced & metered sludge factory tomorrow. Cable is already expoiting the discontent about Verizon FIOS's problems in its newest commercials.. All Verizon has to do is keep living up to this bad image its creating for itself and purpetuating, and Cable not only keeps the customers they have, but gain more and more broadband marketshare.. and thus, docsis 3 pays for itself. Now that the strongest propoents of the FTTP revolution are gone from the company... FTTP will stand to mean Fiber Turns to Puke...
Be nice to those who you meet on the way up.. because your gonna meet them on the way down.. In this case, Verizon will meet the likes of MCI, Qwest, and maybe even RCN as their position begins to unravel.
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Smith6612 @ 30th Sep 06:45AM:
Re: Cord cutters
Treat them to this: Jarate!
 Yay it's Jarate! |
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cptmiles @ 30th Sep 07:32AM:
Re: haha
Do you buy your backbone at a flat rate or burstable using the 95th percentile rule?
I know flat rate is how customers want it now, but if you had to bill on usage would you rather bill per byte or using the 95th rule?
(I have a small ISP as well)
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WhatNow @ 30th Sep 07:58AM:
Re: hmmmmm
The report includes various other interesting tidbits, including the claim that real world ISP broadband speeds are often 50 percent to 80 percent slower than advertised speeds. The agency also notes that 1% of all users drive 20% of traffic and 20% of all users drive 80% of traffic.
From the FCC: We're Halfway Done with with the NBP article today.
There are set costs for equipment in the last mile which need to be covered but the 20% crowd are the ones that are driving the costs up. As this article or one of the posters the equipment limited the usage now nics are so cheap and servers at content providers feed it at next to nothing. When you have flat rate billing people will waste it. Gas is not flat rate but when it was $2 and went to $4 a lot of people found they did not really need that big SUV to just commute to work.
I would benefit if they had a low usage rate. Heck I could have doubled my usage under the very low TWC 40 Gig cap and still have come under the cap. If the ISP don't feel they have the money to spend then don't look for upgrades in the under served areas.
This crowd wants to pick and chose but it needs to be looked at as a whole. One size does not work.
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joetaxpayer @ 30th Sep 09:05AM:
Re: Why stop at very healthy profits?
said by en102 :
If they set their rates 'decently' enough, then its not a big deal... yet (eg. Comcast set to 250GB?)
You think? The comcast board is full of complaints about the meter, as well as the cap. Even though it's maybe .1% who will exceed this cap, the complaints go right down to the guy who knows he's only using 50GB/mo.
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Shamayim @ 30th Sep 09:45AM:
Coming... and going
If metered broadband is coming to Verizon customers will be going -- right over to Cablevision, TWC, et.al.
--
Who is Jesus? and Why it matters (to YOU).
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PittsPgh @ 30th Sep 10:02AM:
Re: Can't compare Apple to Oranges to Grapes
said by espaeth :said by PittsPgh :
Set the equipment up in a closet and keep it cool/warm,pay for the electric, and hope no one cuts the wire on you. Almost self sufficient. A lot lower maintenance compared to your normal utilities.
That position ignores upgrades, which are the entire basis behind the "bandwidth is getting cheaper" argument. If bandwidth utilization were fixed, then your assessment would be accurate.
As of yet, the gear doesn't replace itself when it comes time to upgrade, and the people doing the replacement don't work for free.
No I wasn't exactly ignoring that fact.
Forgot to also mention that You have to upgrade an replace Gas and Water lines also.Repairs to waterlines I'm sure cost quite a bit more per mile also.
My main point is, There is a lot more work and maintenance involved for Water/Gas/Sewer/Electric. Everything needs upgraded or replaced over time. That's a given.
My old 19" tv in the spare room was fine for many years. Till the Digital TV conversion. I had to upgrade it by getting a digital converter box for it.
Paul
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Boiler Up @ 30th Sep 11:08AM:
Re: Coming... and going
In a perfect world all Verizon customers would not pay their bill or cancel if this happened but we all know that will not happen. Sure they will lose some customers but it won't be enough to hurt them because they will be getting more $ from the customers that don't want to be bothered with calling around for another ISP. Just like the email about not buying gas for 1 day and the oil companies will lower gas prices. That would not work because 1 day with no one buying fuel would mean they would make up for it the next day and we will have hurt ourselves by creating huge lines at the pump. Metered Broadband sucks and I think over time it will fail anyways. I think most of it is b/c of the problem with illegal downloads because if you were metered broadband how many movies or songs would you illegally download? It would be cheaper to buy the legal version at a retailer and get a better quality version.
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nitzan @ 30th Sep 12:09PM:
Re: Why stop at very healthy profits?
The guy who uses 50GB today - will use 500GB in a few years. With streaming HDTV and other forms of media shifting towards the internet, 250GB is going to look like nothing in no time.
Think about it like this:
Today's average consumption is 50GB, cap is 250GB.
In 2 years average consumption is 100GB, cap is still 250GB.
In 5 years average consumption is 500GB, cap is still 250GB so people get hit with bills twice the amount for "exceeding" the cap.
It's in essence a way for them to ensure today that in a few years they'll be able to hit a signficant amount of users with overage fees - without the negative publicity coming from per-byte billing, and without the regulatory headaches. In 5 years when the regulators come knocking on their doors they'll say "but we've been working like this for years!". It's sneaky, but that's what they're trying to do IMHO. Not a bad business plan at all, actually.
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SuperWISP @ 30th Sep 12:59PM:
I have a metered telephone line.
That's right; I could have gone for "flat rate" service, but I make so few outgoing calls on the line that it is cheaper to have measured service.
I save money that way, and so do many consumers.
The same will be true of Internet. If ISPs were to switch to metered service, the heavy users will pay more, but light users will pay less.
There's nothing inherently wrong with this. Yes, some folks don't want to be metered. In fact, as an ISP and an Internet user, I don't really like the idea of metering broadband either. I'd rather shape traffic -- invisibly to the user. But since the FCC seems poised to prohibit other methods of keeping revenues in line with costs, it may be time to (reluctantly) embrace metering.
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anon @ 30th Sep 01:08PM:
Re: Why stop at very healthy profits?
I currently run a business and would never charge more because I could, the only way I charge more is if the product or service improves. I believe this may be where we need to focus our efforts instead of Net Neutrality, since this would affect the web even more at the present time, perhaps incorporate it into the bill and get it signed anyways.
I am a big fan of letting a consumer do what they wish with their hardware and connections and would love to see large companies do the same. What right do we as a company have to tell the end user that they can't play that game because their hardware can't handle it or that their connection will be bogged down? We can inform them that it may not function properly, but that is the extent we can do as a company.
Let the net be free!
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SLD @ 30th Sep 02:22PM:
Re: I have a metered telephone line.
Yeah, but these bastards want it both ways. They want to charge for metered bandwidth as well as charge a connection fee that will be close to what you pay now.
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eqshadimar @ 30th Sep 02:25PM:
What about VOIP?
Didn't the Feds slap some hands saying the if the provider's own voice service did not count against caps then VOIP traffic could not? I would think that Vonage and other VOIP providers could cry foul if the caps start to affect their customer base.
Laters,
Jeff
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destroyah @ 30th Sep 03:10PM:
Re: Coming... and going
said by Shamayim :
If metered broadband is coming to Verizon customers will be going -- right over to Cablevision, TWC, et.al.
You also have to think about those people that are not in their service areas. What then? Going to Charter which is bankrupt, or Cox? I sure as hell would not give Time Warner any of my money, even if Verizon does this. Most likely I'll end up dropping to the lowest plan or take them to the local PUC and force them to re-connect my copper and switch providers to DslExtreme.
And, of course, let us not forget those who just have Verizon in their territories, though unlikely, what would those people do then? Move to satellite? This is nothing but a money grab. When you put the picture together, think of all the millions of subscibers, then multiply that by an average of about $70+ per household, and the company is making bank out of us the consumers. This double-dipping may happen since the departure of their old CTO (I think, though I am not sure), and will happen unless people make a stink now. Write to your local Public Utilities Commission. Write to your representatives and/or senators. Let them know that you as a consumer are being nickle and dimed to death. As others have said, if they cannot provide what they are selling, then they should cap their current plans where they are till their infrastructure can catch up.
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--25/15 FIOS ~ 25.8D--28.9U--
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GyroCaptain @ 30th Sep 08:05PM:
Re: I'm fine
said by expert007 :
with metered billing...but
1) The meter better work correctly.
2) The price per byte/unit better not gouge.
Thats like saying, "well you can give it to me, but you better use lube!"
Bwhahaha! No lube for you! Next!
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GyroCaptain @ 30th Sep 08:56PM:
Re: Metered billing
That will be a double edged sword indeed. Kind of a damned if you do, damned if you don't. Right hand or forehead kind of thing.
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GyroCaptain @ 30th Sep 09:32PM:
Re: I have a metered telephone line.
Your kind will become extinct sooner than you realize. Much sooner.
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FastiBook @ 30th Sep 10:28PM:
If they switch me to metered billing...
I will ditch them for the dreaded ccast.
- A
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LETS GO METS!
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SirChaos @ 30th Sep 11:02PM:
Frontier here I come! Wait....
It doesn't matter to me, I live in a Verizon FiOS area that is supposed to be sold to Frontier if the "big deal" ends up going through.....and if it does, I can't wait to see the 5GB cap! :)
I say you can always vote with the mighty dollar....if you don't like it, go to someone else. Even if EVERY company decides to go metered, then go to the company that gives you the customer the best deal.
I have five options where I live:
1. Verizon FiOS/DSL
2. Comcast
3. Clearwire
4. Directway
5. Other Cellular
We will see....if Verizon tries to screw me...then I will go elsewhere...:)
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SirChaos @ 30th Sep 11:09PM:
Re: Frontier here I come! Wait....
Oh yeah....I forgot Dial-Up! Doh! :)
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anon @ 1st Oct 09:46AM:
Re: Why stop at very healthy profits?
"Short term gain over long term prosperity?"
Hey it worked REAL good the last 8 years of unfettered banking laws! Let's do it again!
(hmmm, secretly me thinks I better invest in dialup AOL stock)
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avd706 @ 1st Oct 01:41PM:
How soon before cable companies...
start charging you by the minute to watch TV?
--
standard disclaimers apply.
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joetaxpayer @ 1st Oct 08:06PM:
Re: Why stop at very healthy profits?
said by nitzan :
The guy who uses 50GB today - will use 500GB in a few years. With streaming HDTV and other forms of media shifting towards the internet, 250GB is going to look like nothing in no time.
Absent caps, there are the top few (the .1%) who use more than the bottom 50%. I'd expect that once the meter is available, those top .1% are savvy enough to trade off whatever the heck they are doing with the important stuff they'd like to keep doing.
I agree that we should expect the cap to be lifted, on some semi-regular basis.
I find it curious that when we talk taxes, the top .1% are vilified, everyone wants to tax them 1000% if we could, yet the top .1% of bandwidth users are heroes. As a ~40GB/mo user, I'm subsidizing them as are 99% of us. Let them pay their way.
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nitzan @ 1st Oct 09:25PM:
Re: Why stop at very healthy profits?
said by joetaxpayer :
I agree that we should expect the cap to be lifted, on some semi-regular basis.
Do you seriously think they're going to raise the cap on a regular basis? or raise it at all? again- this is an easy way for them to pave the way for future overage charges for average users.
I find it curious that when we talk taxes, the top .1% are vilified, everyone wants to tax them 1000% if we could
Maybe YOU want to tax them 1000%. I think the top .1% should be paying exactly the same tax rates as you and me. They already pay millions (or more) in taxes as it is - and if you put too much tax burden on them they'll simply move their business elsewhere. You can't tax someone millions of dollars and expect them not to be able to creatively shift income around so it doesn't get taxed. For you and me it's not worth the trouble - for the upper .1% of taxpayers it very well will be if you tax them high enough.
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Raven313 @ 1st Oct 11:27PM:
It better be an extremely high cap
If the telco's are concerned about the miniscule percentage of users that hog bandwidth, the cap should only affect those users. To impact only those users, the cap would have to be a matter of terabytes, not hundreds of gigabytes.
On FIOS, you could hit 500 GB in around 3 days. If they EVER dreamed of making the cap that low, and that easy to hit quickly.... that would be a travesty, a disgrace, unforgiveable, irresponsible, unreasonable, impractical, infuriating, disasterous, etc. etc. That would be BAD BAD BAD.
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anon @ 2nd Oct 12:39AM:
Verizon: Metered Broadband Is Coming
Per byte billing would be too much to hope for in Canada. User based billing is set to come into effect soon meaning the people who use next to no bandwidth still pay the same but the people who go over low set caps get hammered for overuse fees at an exorbitant rate.
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mach_six @ 2nd Oct 03:45PM:
Verizon still needs to combat other ISP
I don't see what's the point of making the Internet multimedia rich.
I'm sure there has to be a limit before the start charging you because that's ridiculous...
Faster speeds don't mean shit if you're going to make users pay for byte. This is a step backwards, I hope IE 8 still have the option to not download multimedia content.
I don't think VZ should be quick to do this because they need to enter these markets still. If they do that they will only delay their own growth.
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lefty1 @ 2nd Oct 06:34PM:
Re: haha
said by knightmb :said by birdfeedr :
i wish there was a way we could all do something about it
most customers don't care because they just check e-mail, you tube, play WOW, and surf websites.
If bandwidth usage were that low, bandwidth caps wouldn't matter. I wish there were some way a user could view their up-to-the minute bandwidth usage for the month.
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sunny8294 @ 4th Oct 03:29PM:
Greedy Bastards
Well I guess its time to say "Bye 20/20 mbps (1 GB cap) and Hello 14.4kbps dialup (Unilimited ) connection" Goodluck watching HD over dialup :)
--
.:: Sunny ::.
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batterup @ 13th Nov 07:42PM:
Re: Verizon still needs to combat other ISP
said by mach_six :
I don't think VZ should be quick to do this because they need to enter these markets still. If they do that they will only delay their own growth.
That is the reason behind metered billing for internet. CATV wants to sell pay per view that is not part of the internet. With unlimited internet their pay per view will suffer.
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